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PoliGAF 2017 |OT1| From Russia with Love

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A

Aaron Strife

Banned
RustyNails said:
So white house's report on the hacking is supposed to be due tomorrow, right?
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What if it comes out mid-transition?

"The White House was shocked to discover that voting machines in hundreds of counties across several swing states were hacked by ~bzzt~ NOTHING AT ALL. ALL HAIL GLORIOUS LEADER PUTI-I MEAN, TRUMP"
 
C

chadskin

Member
Happy Inauguration Day!

homer.png
 
R

royalan

Member
JP_ said:
Keith Ellison was a guest on the Ezra Klein Show http://www.stitcher.com/s?eid=48843420
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Listened a few days ago. He got caught flat-footed by one or two of the questions Ezra asked, but It was a MUCH better showing than his Keeping it 1600 interview. After this, it would be easy for me to support him as chair.

1) He understands that you can't address the economic issue WITHOUT addressing the race issue and how Republicans constantly rely on it.

2) He showed some goddamn respect to Hillary Clinton while acknowledging the flaws in her campaign strategy. Proving that such a thing is possible.

EDIT:

3) He actually made a damn good point about Democrats not letting Republicans frame the economic issue as one of scarcity of resources.
 
J

JP_

Banned
royalan said:
Listened a few days ago. He got caught flat-footed by one or two of the questions Ezra asked, but It was a MUCH better showing than his Keeping it 1600 interview. After this, it would be easy for me to support him as chair.

1) He understands that you can't address the economic issue WITHOUT addressing the race issue and how Republicans constantly rely on it.

2) He showed some goddamn respect to Hillary Clinton while acknowledging the flaws in her campaign strategy. Proving that such a thing is possible.

EDIT:

3) He actually made a damn good point about Democrats not letting Republicans frame the economic issue as one of scarcity of resources.
Click to expand...

I'm midway through. I like his apartment-level campaign strategy and year-long knocking, keeping engaged with people on a low level. And I hadn't considered how increased district-level turnout could help state-wide races too.
 
I

ImpracticalPassword

Member
Diablos said:
I am glad the military stood up to him.
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I think it's more like the military knew that the street itself would probably be destroyed by tanks rolling over it. They're still sending a bunch of planes over for flybys.

Though it's kind of funny that two people referred to the Red Square optics in that Huff Po article.
 
F

Funkyhamster

Member
royalan said:
Listened a few days ago. He got caught flat-footed by one or two of the questions Ezra asked, but It was a MUCH better showing than his Keeping it 1600 interview. After this, it would be easy for me to support him as chair.

1) He understands that you can't address the economic issue WITHOUT addressing the race issue and how Republicans constantly rely on it.

2) He showed some goddamn respect to Hillary Clinton while acknowledging the flaws in her campaign strategy. Proving that such a thing is possible.

EDIT:

3) He actually made a damn good point about Democrats not letting Republicans frame the economic issue as one of scarcity of resources.
Click to expand...

This all sounds great. The Hillary fanboy in me is happy about point #2, but point #1 is the truth that needs to be told after this election and hopefully the key to reconciling the economic populist wing and the social justice-oriented wing of the Democratic base.
 
I

ImpracticalPassword

Member
Wilsongt said:
I have been seeing a lot of articles in different places that the Clinton Foundation is dead...

Thanks Sanders and Trump.
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Source? The closure of the Clinton Global Initiative (which was a yearly? conference and fundraiser) was announced in September. The Clinton Foundation, which hosted CGI, is still open, as far as I've heard. Same with the family's foundation, which they use to funnel their own money to charities they've supported for years.
 
P

Psychoward

Banned
Someone I follow on insta just uploaded a photo of the Maga hat with the caption "he's not regan, but he'll do"

Dude probably couldn't name 3 of Reagan's actions let alone spell his name right, plus I doubt Reagan would support Trump's foreign policy...

This election has basically made me have an irrational predisposed disgust of straight, white males. Obviously different on gaf but it seems 9 times out of 10 these days they're just fucking stupid and or hateful. I'm done arguing with them, I'm done discussing my fear of the future because of my sexuality with them, let alone other races, genders or sexualities. Many of them don't seem to understand basic empathy nor have any desire to learn, instead priding themselves on ignorance and oppression. It's really not a surprise most of the biggest assholes to me growing up consistently vote R.

It's probably best I just focus on getting my degree and voting every 2 years.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
BoboBrazil said:
I read Trump gave up his cell phone earlier and will get a new secure one. Guess no late night tweeting tonight.
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There's no way the secure one will have twitter, or else it'd be not secure at all.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
BoboBrazil said:
I read Trump gave up his cell phone earlier and will get a new secure one. Guess no late night tweeting tonight.
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where'd you see this

this is the only thing that will give me life

the denial of trumps twitter.

~~~
So any bets on how long trump lasts? I give him a year before we get into conflict with China.
 
M

Mike M

Nick N
Anything that diminishes or impedes Trump's ability to use Twitter as a weapons platform is a fundamentally a good thing.

I expect he'll just dictate to someone else, though.
 
B

BoboBrazil

Member
thepotatoman said:
There's no way the secure one will have twitter, or else it'd be not secure at all.
Click to expand...
Eh I guess they could have a blackberry with Twitter on it and make it secure enough. There is a Twitter blackberry app right?
BreezyLimbo said:
where'd you see this

this is the only thing that will give me life

the denial of trumps twitter.

~~~
So any bets on how long trump lasts? I give him a year before we get into conflict with China.
Click to expand...

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/315207-report-trump-has-given-up-personal-cellphone


You can also tell by the fact that whoever has done the tweets for him in the last few hours are obviously not him.
 
P

Pixieking

Banned
So, considering how much Trump contests what people say about him, together with his lies... Anyone want to consider what would count as libel/slander? Or, rather, anyone want to consider the things that Trump may threaten to sue on, even though they're public record? Would he even chance it? Would he overrule the WH legal team?
 
H

Hammer24

Banned
Especially today I ask myself:
What would the American political landscape, the USA itself and the world look like today, had Romney won in 2012?
Would the US be as divided today? Would HRC had a chance to unseat him in 2016? Would the Dems have made more inroads towards Congress and Senate?
Would Syria, the Crimean and Ukraine have happened the way they did? (Romney identified Russia as enemy #1 in his primary speaches). Without Syria happening the way it did, and consequentially the refugee crisis, would Europe be on the way towards the right it is today?
 
P

Pixieking

Banned
Hammer24 said:
Especially today I ask myself:
What would the American political landscape, the USA itself and the world look like today, had Romney won in 2012?
Would the US be as divided today? Would HRC had a chance to unseat him in 2016? Would the Dems have made more inroads towards Congress and Senate?
Would Syria, the Crimean and Ukraine have happened the way they did? (Romney identified Russia as enemy #1 in his primary speaches). Without Syria happening the way it did, and consequentially the refugee crisis, would Europe be on the way towards the right it is today?
Click to expand...

Can't really answer the other questions, but as to the bolded...

Yes, I think it would be. The shift to the right in Europe is partially based on refugees, but also partially based in economic fear and unemployment. In many ways, it's a perfect storm of nationalism, "economic anxiety" (in a literal sense, and as a dog-whistle for racism), and increased terrorist activity. Remove Syria from the equation, and you would have less of an increase in ISIS terrorist attacks, but you would still have a shift against Muslims and The Other, and towards "local jobs for local people".

More specifically, in the UK the right-wing media have been hounding immigrants for the better part of the last two decades, as increased immigration puts pressure on the NHS and local services. However, rather than tamp down on this and pump more money into the system through tax increases, governmental policy since 2010 has been to push austerity measures and lower budgets for councils/NHS/the public sector, and institute pay-freezes or lower-than-inflation pay-rises for public sector workers (doctors, teachers, firemen, police). The three things together - right-wing nationalist media, and cuts to services and wages - have fomented a society where fascism/hatred of The Other/selfishness/fear of being poor have risen. Right-wing parties are taking advantage of this, as seen in the push towards Brexit and away from closer European integration.

The Right feeds on hate, selfishness, a lack of empathy, and a willingness to look-back to when the majority of people felt safer (economically as well as physically). All of which would've occurred anyway, regardless of the Syrian situation.
 
H

Hammer24

Banned
Pixieking said:
The Right feeds on hate, selfishness, a lack of empathy, and a willingness to look-back to when the majority of people felt safer (economically as well as physically). All of which would've occurred anyway, regardless of the Syrian situation.
Click to expand...

I see that the same way. My question is more towards, would have all the fear mongering have been as effective, had certain things not happened the way they did? I mean, even the Brexit vote hat a rather small margin of victory.
 
P

Pixieking

Banned
Hammer24 said:
I see that the same way. My question is more towards, would have all the fear mongering have been as effective, had certain things not happened the way they did? I mean, even the Brexit vote hat a rather small margin of victory.
Click to expand...

Brexit was - pretty much - fought and won on lies like £350m a week could go to the NHS, instead of the EU, and a general dislike of non-British people. Neither of those would I think have been drastically altered had there been less Syrian refugees. The former claim took advantage of government cuts to the NHS, the latter is just the below-the-surface racism that's existed since the 60s/70s/80s. I think Brexit was the UK version of Trump being elected in the sense that people realised that society wasn't as progressive as we all thought.

Germany and France may differ slightly, due to the terror attacks there and things like the Burkini "outrage". But the Right has been slowly climbing back up in both countries since the 90s, so...
 
C

CygnusXS

will gain confidence one day
Question for the thread: there's a major terror attack on US soil and ISIS takes responsibility; which country does Trump nuke in retaliation: Syria, Iraq, or Iran?
 
A

aspiegamer

Member
CygnusXS said:
Question for the thread: there's a major terror attack on US soil and ISIS takes responsibility; which country does Trump nuke in retaliation: Syria, Iraq, or Iran?
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I would genuinely not be shocked if he nuked Raqqah to "end the war", which of course it wouldn't. That's the only real "obvious" target I can think of. This isn't likely, of course, but that it's a non-zero is horrifying enough for me. There'll be no concentrated ISIS left in Iraq within the next year, the administration will be fine with 80% of Syria, and the US is wholly incapable of sustaining an actual campaign against Iran even if there was somehow public support for it.
 
D

Diablos

Member
9T9cwO7.jpg


My fellow citizens: I stand here today humbled by the task before us, grateful for the trust you've bestowed, mindful of the sacrifices borne by our ancestors.

I thank President Bush for his service to our nation -- (applause) -- as well as the generosity and cooperation he has shown throughout this transition.

Forty-four Americans have now taken the presidential oath. The words have been spoken during rising tides of prosperity and the still waters of peace. Yet, every so often, the oath is taken amidst gathering clouds and raging storms. At these moments, America has carried on not simply because of the skill or vision of those in high office, but because we, the people, have remained faithful to the ideals of our forebears and true to our founding documents.

So it has been; so it must be with this generation of Americans.

That we are in the midst of crisis is now well understood. Our nation is at war against a far-reaching network of violence and hatred. Our economy is badly weakened, a consequence of greed and irresponsibility on the part of some, but also our collective failure to make hard choices and prepare the nation for a new age. Homes have been lost, jobs shed, businesses shuttered. Our health care is too costly, our schools fail too many -- and each day brings further evidence that the ways we use energy strengthen our adversaries and threaten our planet.
These are the indicators of crisis, subject to data and statistics. Less measurable, but no less profound, is a sapping of confidence across our land; a nagging fear that America's decline is inevitable, that the next generation must lower its sights.

Today I say to you that the challenges we face are real. They are serious and they are many. They will not be met easily or in a short span of time. But know this America: They will be met. (Applause.)

On this day, we gather because we have chosen hope over fear, unity of purpose over conflict and discord. On this day, we come to proclaim an end to the petty grievances and false promises, the recriminations and worn-out dogmas that for far too long have strangled our politics. We remain a young nation. But in the words of Scripture, the time has come to set aside childish things. The time has come to reaffirm our enduring spirit; to choose our better history; to carry forward that precious gift, that noble idea passed on from generation to generation: the God-given promise that all are equal, all are free, and all deserve a chance to pursue their full measure of happiness. (Applause.)

In reaffirming the greatness of our nation we understand that greatness is never a given. It must be earned. Our journey has never been one of short-cuts or settling for less. It has not been the path for the faint-hearted, for those that prefer leisure over work, or seek only the pleasures of riches and fame. Rather, it has been the risk-takers, the doers, the makers of things -- some celebrated, but more often men and women obscure in their labor -- who have carried us up the long rugged path towards prosperity and freedom.

For us, they packed up their few worldly possessions and traveled across oceans in search of a new life. For us, they toiled in sweatshops, and settled the West, endured the lash of the whip, and plowed the hard earth. For us, they fought and died in places like Concord and Gettysburg, Normandy and Khe Sahn.

Time and again these men and women struggled and sacrificed and worked till their hands were raw so that we might live a better life. They saw America as bigger than the sum of our individual ambitions, greater than all the differences of birth or wealth or faction.

This is the journey we continue today. We remain the most prosperous, powerful nation on Earth. Our workers are no less productive than when this crisis began. Our minds are no less inventive, our goods and services no less needed than they were last week, or last month, or last year. Our capacity remains undiminished. But our time of standing pat, of protecting narrow interests and putting off unpleasant decisions -- that time has surely passed. Starting today, we must pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and begin again the work of remaking America. (Applause.)

For everywhere we look, there is work to be done. The state of our economy calls for action, bold and swift. And we will act, not only to create new jobs, but to lay a new foundation for growth. We will build the roads and bridges, the electric grids and digital lines that feed our commerce and bind us together. We'll restore science to its rightful place, and wield technology's wonders to raise health care's quality and lower its cost. We will harness the sun and the winds and the soil to fuel our cars and run our factories. And we will transform our schools and colleges and universities to meet the demands of a new age. All this we can do. All this we will do.

Now, there are some who question the scale of our ambitions, who suggest that our system cannot tolerate too many big plans. Their memories are short, for they have forgotten what this country has already done, what free men and women can achieve when imagination is joined to common purpose, and necessity to courage. What the cynics fail to understand is that the ground has shifted beneath them, that the stale political arguments that have consumed us for so long no longer apply.

The question we ask today is not whether our government is too big or too small, but whether it works -- whether it helps families find jobs at a decent wage, care they can afford, a retirement that is dignified. Where the answer is yes, we intend to move forward. Where the answer is no, programs will end. And those of us who manage the public's dollars will be held to account, to spend wisely, reform bad habits, and do our business in the light of day, because only then can we restore the vital trust between a people and their government.

Nor is the question before us whether the market is a force for good or ill. Its power to generate wealth and expand freedom is unmatched. But this crisis has reminded us that without a watchful eye, the market can spin out of control. The nation cannot prosper long when it favors only the prosperous. The success of our economy has always depended not just on the size of our gross domestic product, but on the reach of our prosperity, on the ability to extend opportunity to every willing heart -- not out of charity, but because it is the surest route to our common good. (Applause.)

As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals. Our Founding Fathers -- (applause) -- our Founding Fathers, faced with perils that we can scarcely imagine, drafted a charter to assure the rule of law and the rights of man -- a charter expanded by the blood of generations. Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience sake. (Applause.)

And so, to all the other peoples and governments who are watching today, from the grandest capitals to the small village where my father was born, know that America is a friend of each nation, and every man, woman and child who seeks a future of peace and dignity. And we are ready to lead once more. (Applause.)

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with the sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

We are the keepers of this legacy. Guided by these principles once more we can meet those new threats that demand even greater effort, even greater cooperation and understanding between nations. We will begin to responsibly leave Iraq to its people and forge a hard-earned peace in Afghanistan. With old friends and former foes, we'll work tirelessly to lessen the nuclear threat, and roll back the specter of a warming planet.

We will not apologize for our way of life, nor will we waver in its defense. And for those who seek to advance their aims by inducing terror and slaughtering innocents, we say to you now that our spirit is stronger and cannot be broken -- you cannot outlast us, and we will defeat you. (Applause.)

For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus, and non-believers. We are shaped by every language and culture, drawn from every end of this Earth; and because we have tasted the bitter swill of civil war and segregation, and emerged from that dark chapter stronger and more united, we cannot help but believe that the old hatreds shall someday pass; that the lines of tribe shall soon dissolve; that as the world grows smaller, our common humanity shall reveal itself; and that America must play its role in ushering in a new era of peace.

To the Muslim world, we seek a new way forward, based on mutual interest and mutual respect. To those leaders around the globe who seek to sow conflict, or blame their society's ills on the West, know that your people will judge you on what you can build, not what you destroy. (Applause.)

To those who cling to power through corruption and deceit and the silencing of dissent, know that you are on the wrong side of history, but that we will extend a hand if you are willing to unclench your fist. (Applause.)

To the people of poor nations, we pledge to work alongside you to make your farms flourish and let clean waters flow; to nourish starved bodies and feed hungry minds. And to those nations like ours that enjoy relative plenty, we say we can no longer afford indifference to the suffering outside our borders, nor can we consume the world's resources without regard to effect. For the world has changed, and we must change with it.

As we consider the role that unfolds before us, we remember with humble gratitude those brave Americans who at this very hour patrol far-off deserts and distant mountains. They have something to tell us, just as the fallen heroes who lie in Arlington whisper through the ages.

We honor them not only because they are the guardians of our liberty, but because they embody the spirit of service -- a willingness to find meaning in something greater than themselves.
And yet at this moment, a moment that will define a generation, it is precisely this spirit that must inhabit us all. For as much as government can do, and must do, it is ultimately the faith and determination of the American people upon which this nation relies. It is the kindness to take in a stranger when the levees break, the selflessness of workers who would rather cut their hours than see a friend lose their job which sees us through our darkest hours. It is the firefighter's courage to storm a stairway filled with smoke, but also a parent's willingness to nurture a child that finally decides our fate.

Our challenges may be new. The instruments with which we meet them may be new. But those values upon which our success depends -- honesty and hard work, courage and fair play, tolerance and curiosity, loyalty and patriotism -- these things are old. These things are true. They have been the quiet force of progress throughout our history.

What is demanded, then, is a return to these truths. What is required of us now is a new era of responsibility -- a recognition on the part of every American that we have duties to ourselves, our nation and the world; duties that we do not grudgingly accept, but rather seize gladly, firm in the knowledge that there is nothing so satisfying to the spirit, so defining of our character than giving our all to a difficult task.

This is the price and the promise of citizenship. This is the source of our confidence -- the knowledge that God calls on us to shape an uncertain destiny. This is the meaning of our liberty and our creed, why men and women and children of every race and every faith can join in celebration across this magnificent mall; and why a man whose father less than 60 years ago might not have been served in a local restaurant can now stand before you to take a most sacred oath. (Applause.)

So let us mark this day with remembrance of who we are and how far we have traveled. In the year of America's birth, in the coldest of months, a small band of patriots huddled by dying campfires on the shores of an icy river. The capital was abandoned. The enemy was advancing. The snow was stained with blood. At the moment when the outcome of our revolution was most in doubt, the father of our nation ordered these words to be read to the people:

"Let it be told to the future world...that in the depth of winter, when nothing but hope and virtue could survive... that the city and the country, alarmed at one common danger, came forth to meet [it]."

America: In the face of our common dangers, in this winter of our hardship, let us remember these timeless words. With hope and virtue, let us brave once more the icy currents, and endure what storms may come. Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back nor did we falter; and with eyes fixed on the horizon and God's grace upon us, we carried forth that great gift of freedom and delivered it safely to future generations.

Thank you. God bless you. And God bless the United States of America.
Click to expand...
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
One of the biggest problem we have is Michael Flynn will greatly control the flow of National Sec information to Trump and also in many times will be last person Trump talks to before he makes a decision.

Trump's mind changes with every meeting and usually the last person he met has biggest effect on what he says.

Also, liberals should have bought all inauguration tickets to just drown Trump in boos.
 
C

chadskin

Member
cartoon_soldier said:
One of the biggest problem we have is Michael Flynn will greatly control the flow of National Sec information to Trump and also in many times will be last person Trump talks to before he makes a decision.

Trump's mind changes with every meeting and usually the last person he met has biggest effect on what he says.

Also, liberals should have bought all inauguration tickets to just drown Trump in boos.
Click to expand...

Just read this WSJ piece on, in part, Flynn:
His pick for national security adviser, retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, has long clashed with the intelligence-community establishment over the U.S. fight against global terrorism, and is now butting heads with members of Mr. Trump’s team, including Rex Tillerson, Mr. Trump’s pick for secretary of state, Gen. Mattis and Mr. Pompeo.

Officials inside and close to the transition said that Gen. Flynn has been pushing various people for jobs at State and Defense, and is perceived as overreaching in his role as national security adviser.

Two of Mr. Trump’s top advisers—his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, and Steve Bannon, his chief strategist and senior counselor—have met with the trio to soothe concerns about Mr. Flynn, said two people with knowledge of the talks.
Click to expand...
Concerns about Mr. Flynn led to a decision from Mr. Trump’s team to move some responsibilities for overseeing counterterrorism and cybersecurity away from Mr. Flynn’s office, the people said. Those changes were announced late last month when Mr. Trump named Thomas Bossert as assistant to the president for homeland security and counterterrorism. He will report directly to the president instead of to Mr. Flynn.
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http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-a...-vilified-over-russia-intelligence-1484845047

I don't see Flynn lasting long, personally.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
James Poniewozik‏ @poniewozik
Steve Doocy: “Critics won’t admit it, but president-elect Trump is already making America’s inner cities livable again.”
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How in the world does this make any sense?
 
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