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PoliGAF 2017 |OT2| Well, maybe McMaster isn't a traitor.

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B

BigJonsson

Member
RustyNails said:
Dr Oz may believe in kooky alternate medicine, but he is an accomplished cardio-thoracic surgeon and promotes healthy lifestyle. Wont be the worst appointment.

Dr. Bornstein to me comes across as someone who really dont fucking want any limelight. Dude probably has closets full of skeletons and dead hookers.
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Ben Carson is an accomplished brain surgeon....
 
O

Ogodei

Member
Wilsongt said:
Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump

I am committed to keeping our air and water clean but always remember that economic growth enhances environmental protection. Jobs matter!
5:49 PM · Apr 22, 2017

...surejan.gif
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This wasn't written by Trump. The syntax is too clear.
 
P

Pixieking

Banned
Wilsongt said:
Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump

I am committed to keeping our air and water clean but always remember that economic growth enhances environmental protection. Jobs matter!
5:49 PM · Apr 22, 2017

...surejan.gif
Click to expand...

First sign of flip-flopping on coal... Someone's told him how many jobs are involved with renewables.

Aaaaaaanywayyyyyys, regarding Louise Mensch

Louise Mensch Has A List Of Suspected Russian Agents

In addition to the journalists, media personalities, and politicians, among those fingered are a Twitter comedian, a fake White House staff account, and a 15-year-old girl who Mensch suggested does not actually exist except as a Kremlin fabrication (BuzzFeed News interviewed the teenager via phone after first visiting her home).
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F

Funkyhamster

Member
I think Stinkles was getting at this, but when I read Louise Mensch's stuff, I treat it like Nintendo E3 rumors. It's fun to think about what would happen if they are true and look forward to finding out, but I'm not making decisions or changing my perceptions of things because of them.

If every sign in the mainstream media was that Trump was a fine person, and Louise Mensch was talking about how her sources say he's done all these evil things, and I went around believing that Trump was evil, that would be bad. But Trump's evilness is well-established in the public record, and her rumors are only about Trump facing consequences for his actions. I would fantasize about that anyways, so might as well enjoy reading what is, at worst, fanfiction (and at best actually has some grounding in truth). I did the same thing with the kompromat rumors -- I just told my friends "hey, there's this crazy conspiracy theory," and then when the dossier story broke in the mainstream media, I began treating the stories very differently.
 
P

Pixieking

Banned
A Serious Man said:
That's not how I read that at all. It just sounds like more tortured logic to excuse his "jobs > everything" stance.
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Yeah, I think my reading is "optimistic", shall we say? :) But it's at the point now where it's almost impossible to know what he thinks or plans for the future - the most you can say for sure is that he'll err towards racism and sexism. Beyond that? *shrugs*
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
A Serious Man said:
That's not how I read that at all. It just sounds like more tortured logic to excuse his "jobs > everything" stance.
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Yup. It's the generic statement that the free market and/or a booming economy will somehow solve all problems.
 
V

VendettaRed07

Member
B-Dubs said:
A lot of Kennedy's popping up again lately.
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Yeah, he's sort of hard to find much info on and he has only been a state senator for like 2 years.

Hopefully he isn't a complete antivaxxing psycho like rfk jr. or something. We could really use someone sane and competent

Edit: upon further review looks like there was some really sketchy stuff with his 2014 campaign and where his money came from and how much he spent. Not looking good

Well I guess I'll probably have him or convicted felon Joe Ganim to chose from. Wonderful!
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...13a466-26b4-11e7-b503-9d616bd5a305_story.html

There are no signs of major slippage in support among those who voted for Trump. His approval rating among those who cast ballots for him stands at 94 percent. Among Republicans, it is 84 percent. Asked of those who voted for him whether they regret doing so, 2 percent say they do, while 96 percent say supporting Trump was the right thing to do.When asked if they would vote for him again, 96 percent say they would,
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I'm not sure Trump's approval will ever go much lower.
 
A

ArkhamFantasy

Member
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
Yep, with the economy continuing to improve Trump's numbers won't fall further down.

We already know that all it took was Obama to be removed from Office for Republicans to feel that economy is doing great.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
The key point here isn't the approval rating itself--it's the fact that nearly every one of them will vote for him again.

To me, that shows that reaching out to these people to try to win their vote is going to be mostly fruitless.
John Harwood‏Verified account @JohnJHarwood

new NBC/WSJ poll, as Trump seeks massive domestic spending cuts: 57% say govt should do more to help people, 39% say govt doing too much
Click to expand...

Too much? Come on.
 
R

royalan

Member
Plinko said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...13a466-26b4-11e7-b503-9d616bd5a305_story.html



I'm not sure Trump's approval will ever go much lower.
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quelle surprise...

Just goes to show that any attempts to compare the Trump presidency to any historical precedent has to account for how polarized our country has become.

It's depressing seeing numbers like that, but we cannot expect Trump's support to die by rational, natural causes. People didn't vote for him for rational reasons. At this point I'm convinced that Trump could do anything, wreck our country in any number of ways, and while Republicans may question him, at the end of the day they will fall in line and support him regardless.

All we can do is keep our base energized, and turn them out to vote.
 
eso76

eso76

Member
Trump gives a shout out to Pavarotti, calls him "a good friend of mine".

Pavarotti died 10 years ago in 2007. —via @MSNBC
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chadskin said:
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/855151308289998851

lmao
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To be honest though, the quoted speech doesn't say "he IS a good friend of mine". That could have implied "was".
And I am inclined to believe Trump knows very well Pavarotti is dead, simply because he wouldn't have risked claiming to be friends with someone who might have denied.

Being dead, Pavarotti is unable to deny, but his family had something to say:

Edit: Whoops, banned URL

The reality is that Pavarotti and his family can't stand Trump.
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Hmm..Well, that's some poor journalism injected here ("Pavarotti can't stand Trump" is as bad as saying "he IS a good friend") (edit: no wonder the URL is banned) so let's have it from the actual source:

“As members of his immediate family, we would like to recall that the values of brotherhood and solidarity which Luciano Pavarotti expressed throughout the course of his artistic career are entirely incompatible with the world view offered by the candidate Donald Trump.”
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E

Ernest

Banned
Plinko said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...13a466-26b4-11e7-b503-9d616bd5a305_story.html

When asked if they would vote for him again, 96 percent say they would,
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I'm not sure Trump's approval will ever go much lower.
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That 4% difference would've been enough for a Clinton win.

I guarantee that if Comey had kept his mouth shut over that thing that turned out to be nothing, just days before the election, she would've won.

But hey, that's in the past. What can be done NOW?
 
I

IggyChooChoo

Member
eso76 said:
To be honest though, the quoted speech doesn't say "he IS a good friend of mine". That could have implied "was".
And I am inclined to believe Trump knows very well Pavarotti is dead, simply because he wouldn't have risked claiming to be friends with someone who might have denied.

Being dead, Pavarotti is unable to deny, but his family had something to say:

Edit: Whoops, banned URL



Hmm..Well, that's some poor journalism injected here ("Pavarotti can't stand Trump" is as bad as saying "he IS a good friend") (edit: no wonder the URL is banned) so let's have it from the actual source:
Click to expand...
Placido Domingo don't like Trump much, either:
http://segundoenfoque.com/placido-domingo-critico-a-trump-por-el-muro-fronterizo-33-332541/

No word on Jose Carreras.
 
G

Grexeno

Member
The way to beat Trump in 2020 won't be flipping people who support him, it'll be turning out people who didn't vote in 2016 and getting them to vote against him.
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
A really good piece on the Democrats history of throwing women's reproductive rights under the bus and why this time it might be different



This Unity Tour was supposed to be a means for Perez and Sanders to pull together left-leaning voters, still divided after the spirited primary between Sanders — the democratic socialist whose campaign brought in millions of voters excited about a left-leaning populist agenda — and Hillary Clinton, who was pulled to the left by Sanders and beat him by 3 million votes, becoming the ultimately unsuccessful nominee. Sanders, who is an Independent, has been describing this moment as a chance to “radically transform the Democratic Party,” and his aims are by many measures righteous: He wants to get big money out of politics and reduce the enormous power of what he calls the “millionaire and billionaire class;” he advocates for single-payer health care, free college tuition, and a higher minimum wage, and on this tour has insisted that “it has got to be that those ideas are allowed to become the dominant theme of the Democratic Party and that’s the choice Democrats are going to have to make.”

The problem is that Sanders’s vision — and the vision of Perez and the DNC — as they laid it out this week, looked less like a radical transformation of the Democratic Party and more like a return to mistakes the party has made in the past. These mistakes have nothing to do with economic equality, and everything to do with a willingness to sacrifice the rights of much of the party’s base.
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But right now, perhaps unlike at any other moment in history, it is also crazily blind to what’s actually happening around the country, as this week’s fierce pushback to Perez and Sanders showed. As Hogue — who went on a Twitter tirade about the proposed compromise on Wednesday night — pointed out, in 2006 Rahm Emanuel could get away with de-emphasizing women’s rights in part because the organized resistance of the moment was anti-war. This time, she says, “the organized resistance is women.” In fact, one recent poll showed that 86 percent of the people making daily calls to Senate and House offices are women, most of them middle aged. And after his better-than-expected showing in Tuesday’s primary, Ossoff said, “This is a story of women in this community,” noting the “thousands of volunteers and organizers … led by women who have been pounding the pavement and knocking on doors for months.”

In the midst of one of the most activated, energized, ground-up movements in modern Democratic political history — where the energy is coming from women who remain underrepresented in state and federal legislatures — the Unity Tour, with its two men making pronouncements about what the party should do next, felt exceedingly out of touch. And the dynamic — the women doing the labor of organizing and protesting and campaigning, knocking on doors and making calls and sending postcards, while guys speak from the microphones about the need to compromise on their rights — is depressingly retro.
“Open your eyes to where the resistance is really coming from,” Hogue urged on Thursday. “There are literally millions of women who have been pouring calls into Senate offices, House offices, going to town halls, filing to run for office; we are literally three months out from the largest protest in U.S. history that was overwhelmingly women, in the name of women; that’s where the resistance is. This is the Democratic party base. So why is the place to start negotiating the place that pulls the heart out of the resistance?”

In a sign that the political pressure of a female grassroots is more powerful than ever, both Perez and Sanders responded to criticism with course corrections on Friday afternoon. Perez released a statement reading in part: “Every Democrat, like every American, should support a woman’s right to make her own choices about her body and her health. That is not negotiable.” Perez also said he fundamentally disagrees with Heath Mello’s personal beliefs about reproductive rights and that he’ll be meeting with women leaders from around the country next week to discuss “how we can make sure our Democratic candidates and elected leaders are living up to these fundamental values.” This is good news, though it prompts the question: Why weren’t women leaders central to the planning of the Unity Tour in the first place?
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There was also an interesting quote from Sanders back in 2015 (which he re-stated in 2017) that is basically verbatim what I figured his position was

For some time now, Sanders — who, it should be noted, has an extremely strong legislative record on reproductive rights — has spoken somewhat carelessly about a populist strategy that exchanges some core Democratic beliefs for the set of issues that are most important to him. “Once you get off the social issues — abortion, gay rights, guns — and into the economic issues, there is a lot more agreement than the pundits understand,” he said in 2015. In January of this year, at a CNN Town Hall, he reiterated, “Yes, of course, there are differences on issues like choice or on gay rights … But on many economic issues, you would be surprised at how many Americans hold the same views.”
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But as the article points out:

Sanders is wrong that reproductive rights (or gay rights, for that matter) are separate from economic issues. The ability to control reproduction is central to women’s social, professional, and economic stability, and the women most likely to require abortion services and to be negatively affected by restrictions on access to reproductive health care are poor and low-income women, disproportionately women of color.

But he and Perez were also wrong to view compromising on abortion as part of a pragmatic political path forward and to hold up an aggressively anti-abortion Democrat as some exemplar of progressivism’s future. Heaps of contemporary polling shows abortion is not the divisive issue it was long assumed to be. In 2015, polls showed that seven in ten voters, including independents — and even in Kansas­ — not only supported safe and accessible abortion but were willing to vote based on that support. A postelection Pew study found support for Roe to be at 69 percent, an all-time high. Omaha, the city where Heath Mello is running for mayor, was carried by Clinton — who made the most full-throated case for reproductive rights ever offered by a presidential candidate in her final debate against Donald Trump — by eight points. (For the record, Mello released a statement on Thursday claiming that, “While my faith guides my personal views, as Mayor I would never do anything to restrict access to reproductive health care,” which is a lovely sentiment, except for the fact that as state senator he literally did do lots to restrict access to reproductive health care.)
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http://nymag.com/thecut/2017/04/ber...n-womens-rights.html?mid=twitter-share-thecut
 
D

Dubbedinenglish

Banned
Grexeno said:
The way to beat Trump in 2020 won't be flipping people who support him, it'll be turning out people who didn't vote in 2016 and getting them to vote against him.
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Yup. That's why I eyeroll every time someone tries to police sentiment saying "Trump voters will never support your side if you say that." This is about turnout, the lines are drawn and the crossover is marginal at best.
 
P

Prof. Bathtub

Member
Zukkoyaki said:
Their only sources of news and information come from deeply conservative sources. They're trapped in a bubble (by choice).
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I know people often call Fox state-run media (or at least party-run), but considering Murdoch and Hannity are incredibly frequent advisors to the President (of the red states), what does that make the company?
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
For some time now, Sanders — who, it should be noted, has an extremely strong legislative record on reproductive rights — has spoken somewhat carelessly about a populist strategy that exchanges some core Democratic beliefs for the set of issues that are most important to him. “Once you get off the social issues — abortion, gay rights, guns — and into the economic issues, there is a lot more agreement than the pundits understand,” he said in 2015. In January of this year, at a CNN Town Hall, he reiterated, “Yes, of course, there are differences on issues like choice or on gay rights … But on many economic issues, you would be surprised at how many Americans hold the same views.”
Click to expand...

I don't think he and I are ever going to agree on this, short of an incredibly risky experiment that will decisively prove one of us right and one of us wrong

Also really not thrilled with how Perez handled some of this stuff, as the piece pointed out. Course corrections now instead of later are good, but they probably shouldn't have been necessary...
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Plinko said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...13a466-26b4-11e7-b503-9d616bd5a305_story.html



I'm not sure Trump's approval will ever go much lower.
Click to expand...


This kind of poll, while far from meaningless, is outrageously unscientific. Not because the data is wrong, but because the nature of the question drastically warps the answer.

Take two people. Separate times. Both jump off a high cliff into a lake.


The first makes a small splash, the crowd cheers, he swims to the bank and waves.

The second mistimes his entry, breaks both legs and cracks a rib. The crowd gasps and he is pulled to safety.


Now you ask them, in front of their wives, if they'd each do it again.

Trump voters will stick to their claimed guns in that questioning right now, because no binary change has occured. This is why these poll numbers don't exactly align with random sampling, which should contain normal numbers of Trump voters. Of course they're going to defend their choice, and they will continue to do so until something massive changes. Their philoisophical legs get broken and reality drags them to the shore.


Ultimately it's a poll about a poll. The answer was already evident, the poll just confirms it.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
So in all the screw ups Mook had in last election, was getting the vote out the worst of the bunch? Or was that actually focused on?
 
B

BlastProcessing

Member
Guys, we are announcing an awesome new tax plan on Wednesday! It's gonna be great!

@Phil_Mattingly
Mulvaney on Trump's tax reform announcement: "I don’t think anybody expects us to roll out bill language on Wednesday."​

...I mean not the actual plan, but we will tell you what it does...


@Phil_Mattingly
Mulvaney says WH hasn't decided yet on whether tax reform effort will be revenue neutral​

...Oh... so we haven't even decided the most basic things about it yet... well, I'm sure we will have something nailed down by Wednesday!
 
B

Bam Bam Baklava

Member
BlastProcessing said:
Guys, we are announcing an awesome new tax plan on Wednesday! It's gonna be great!

@Phil_Mattingly
Mulvaney on Trump's tax reform announcement: "I don’t think anybody expects us to roll out bill language on Wednesday."​

...I mean not the actual plan, but we will tell you what it does...


@Phil_Mattingly
Mulvaney says WH hasn't decided yet on whether tax reform effort will be revenue neutral​

...Oh... so we haven't even decided the most basic things about it yet... well, I'm sure we will have something nailed down by Wednesday!
Click to expand...

He could accomplish absolutely nothing and still get 45% of the vote. It's a vote for personality and "stopping evil liberals" and nothing more.
 
S

ShadowSwordmaster

Banned
BlastProcessing said:
Guys, we are announcing an awesome new tax plan on Wednesday! It's gonna be great!

@Phil_Mattingly
Mulvaney on Trump's tax reform announcement: "I don’t think anybody expects us to roll out bill language on Wednesday."​

...I mean not the actual plan, but we will tell you what it does...


@Phil_Mattingly
Mulvaney says WH hasn't decided yet on whether tax reform effort will be revenue neutral​

...Oh... so we haven't even decided the most basic things about it yet... well, I'm sure we will have something nailed down by Wednesday!
Click to expand...
Sounds like a clusterfuck to me.
 
T

Tarydax

Banned
excelsiorlef said:
A really good piece on the Democrats history of throwing women's reproductive rights under the bus and why this time it might be different
Click to expand...

I figured Sanders would jump to compromise on abortion, but I didn't expect that kind of shit from Tom Perez. The fact that both of them expressed a willingness to compromise on that but nothing else was disturbing. The fact that there was enough backlash to make them issue "clarifications" gives me a bit of hope, though.

Sanders still not understanding how a lack of reproductive rights leads to greater income inequality is infuriating, but unexpected. He has absolutely no desire to learn about anything, even when it comes to his favorite issue. It's beyond me how Perez could think that going on a unity tour with someone like Sanders would be a good idea.
 
R

royalan

Member
Yeah, I enthusiastically supported Perez for DNC chair, but I'm not going to lie my jaw dropped at how fucking tone deaf the whole idea of a "Unity Tour" was.

Besides being just a fucking old-as-dirt idea, It's like the entire Democratic leadership, and Bernie Sanders, still have no idea where this energy is coming from when it's so fucking obvious.
 
D

dramatis

Member
Because the loudest and most obnoxious during 2016 were Sanders and his supporters. What they haven't caught up on is that the resistance to Trump opened with the Women's March.

The ones they feel they need to appease are the ones who will never be appeased.
 
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