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PoliGAF 2017 |OT2| Well, maybe McMaster isn't a traitor.
- Thread starter ItWasMeantToBe19
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excelsiorlef
Member
Clinton was the first to First Lady to march in a pride parade and this was when Pride Parades actually meant something.
She's documented to have done a lot for gay folk during her time as SoS.
Calling her anti-gay is ridiculous
She's documented to have done a lot for gay folk during her time as SoS.
Calling her anti-gay is ridiculous
Just listened to it. And it was one of those moments that Lovett reminds you that besides being funny and a chatterbox, he's probably the smartest dude in the group. I agreed with him completely. It's not enough to say that Democrats are in touch with Americans because of our policies when we continue to get our asses handed to us at every level of government.
Democrats have a messaging problem. We don't know how to communicate with people. We don't know how to simplify and advertise our policies in a direct and human way. We run every statement through the bullshit machine to make sure every word is focused-tested and leaves the Democrats with enough wiggle-room in case we accidentally offend someone or need to backtrack later. And the end result is that we sound phony. The biggest lesson to take from Hillary's loss, the most important lesson we could learn from Bernie Sanders, and the continuing lesson to learn from Democrats on our roster who ARE popular, is to just say what you fucking believe and go hard on that.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
Well now Democrats just cuss a lot, so hopefully that works
(I'm sort of a fan of that, although there's a point where I think it falls flat)
Aaron Strife
Banned
I don't understand why people bring up Don't Ask Don't Tell as a knock against either Clinton, other than out of ignorance or to deliberately obfuscate their record on LGBTQIA rights (ok so I do know).
Bill campaigned on allowing gays to serve in the military outright and DADT was a compromise, and as suggested by Hillary's comments in your link, not one either of them were fully satisfied with.
I'm not saying it's good policy, but to hear some people tell it, you'd think gay soldiers were frolicking around the mine fields playing grabass with their commanding officers until Big Bad Bill Clinton shoved them in the closet.
90% of young liberals' complaints about the Clintons' record stem from a lack of context.
But see, even Democrats cussing sound phony.
"They call it a skinny budget, I call it a shitty budget"
GOD, STOP WITH THE "SHITTY" ONE-LINERS!
whyamihere
Banned
Unless your name is Ron Wyden, every Democrat who was around in the 90s was Very Bad on gay marriage and yes that includes Joseph Biden, Hillary Clinton, and Bernard Sanders.
Aaron Strife
Banned
But Biden is so wacky and lovable!
I wonder what the difference was between Hillary and those other two.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Lovett is the only reason I listen to PSA since the election. I tried his show today because I was interested in the O'Rourke parts but I didn't last very long before giving up.
lolz
As far as homosexuality goes, remember that prop 8 passed the same year Obama got elected: the most liberal state in the union voted democratically to ban gay marriage in a Democrat wave year. Think about that.
It's a miracle public sentiment has turned around as fast as it did, but it was one of those wedge issues that Democrats would always lose on in competitive states before 2011 or so.
It's a miracle public sentiment has turned around as fast as it did, but it was one of those wedge issues that Democrats would always lose on in competitive states before 2011 or so.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
Yeah, it's usually pretty bad, but there have been some Democrats that sounded OK cussing
Problem is is that it seems like there's a memo that went out that said "Everyone start cussing" so it all seems kinda inauthentic
but remember abortion is a "social issue"... why are those dumb dems so hung up on it???
Because the entire country was Very Bad on gay marriage!
Probably all saw this study: http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/21/14341850/profanity-swearing-honesty-linguistics-language
Aaron Strife
Banned
I want to run for Congress, I will cuss the fucking shit out of Paulsen at the debate.
neurosisxeno
Member
My dream in life is to tell Paul Ryan on the Congress floor to go fuck himself for being such a huge piece of shit.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
And see here I just wanted to punch him in the face
Carpe Libertatem
Member
Probably also because Trump swore and received no downsides (related to the study you link to, too)
Dems didn't drop gay issues though-They just went w/ incremental gains over time. DADT and Civil Unions were part of that. (JTB's point in the Sanders thread that this stuff all went through the courts rather than legislatures and has caused issues b/c of it is well-taken.)
The issue is that the structural issues are pretty different w/ the two, where w/ racial issues we can't accept incremental progress because there's no chance of it sticking. We have to go full-out when given the opportunity.
neurosisxeno
Member
Baby steps.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
Anyone else noticing "We'll he's not a politician" as an excuse for all of Trumps failures? So....you voted for someone who you had no expectations for?
Aaron Strife
Banned
Should be noted though that DADT was settled legislatively. Marriage equality also happened in several states either by legislation or ballot referendum.
I really think New York passing gay marriage was the strongest benchmark for it short of the SCOTUS ruling. Just reading the media coverage at the time was like night and day compared to articles about states that had previously legalized it. Couched with concern trolling and infuriatingly cocky statements from hate groups. Winning in New York felt like... ok, this is going to happen, the media and the Democrats are finally onboard with it.
Aaron Strife
Banned
I just hate the "We need someone who's not a politician!!!" rhetoric in general, from the left or right just because you see a fucking moron like Trump not accomplish anything because he has no idea how to play the game. Seems like we need a politician!
For all the people on the left wondering why Obama didn't start further left on ACA to theoretically negotiate down to something more progressive than what we got, all you need to do is compare how differently the fight played out over ACA versus AHCA. ACA was so meticulously crafted and designed for consensus, and guess what? It passed. Trump meanwhile tried shoving a shitty bill no one liked or wanted down his party's throat, and oh look, the whole thing exploded after two and a half weeks.
Trump is what happens when a president with no goodwill or working relationship with Congress attempts to bully pulpit his way into power - nothing.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I actually consider helping to get gay marriage made legal across the country to be Obama's crowning achievement. And I'm not even gay.
It must feel nice for him as well. It's not often a president gets such a large civil rights victory under their belt.
It must feel nice for him as well. It's not often a president gets such a large civil rights victory under their belt.
whyamihere
Banned
I would punch Paul Ryan.
I mean, he had nothing to do with it besides nominating Kagan and Sotomayor and came out for gay marriage after Biden slipped up because his team was initially too scared to come out for gay marriage before the election.
Real political bravery, Obama. See #6 from 1996.
I mean, he had nothing to do with it besides nominating Kagan and Sotomayor and came out for gay marriage after Biden slipped up because his team was initially too scared to come out for gay marriage before the election.
Real political bravery, Obama. See #6 from 1996.
They'll just censure you and remove you from congress.
Though they'd need a fair number of Democrats for that (expulsion requires 2/3rds vote), so if you were judicious about it, you could get away with it.
Kick him in the nuts.
neurosisxeno
Member
That logic is the most idiotic thing I've regularly encountered.
"Oh my god you've been shot, we should get you to a Doctor!"
"NO. I need someone who's not a Doctor!"
"..."
Some things are worth the sacrifice.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I mean, he had nothing to do with it besides nominating Kagan and Sotomayor and came out for gay marriage after Biden slipped up because his team was initially too scared to come out for gay marriage before the election.
Real political bravery, Obama. See #6 from 1996.
I don't think it would have gained as much support across the country had Obama and Biden not come out for it.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
These smug pilots have lost touch with regular passengers like us. Who thinks I should fly the plane?
Still the best representation of this, tbh
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Agreed. It seems forced.
Aaron Strife
Banned
I'm concerned her flip-flopping on immigration and gun control issues could hurt her with the Bernie-or-bust crowd, but then again they didn't give two fucks when he did it on those two specific issues, so why not.
whyamihere
Banned
Yes it would've. Obama and Biden did little to nothing besides stroll on in at the end. Same with Hillary. And same with Bernie in Vermont. The gay marriage movement was built on the backs of people far braver than these people.
I mean, I love Obama. But he deserves no credit here.
TheAbsolution
Member
BlastProcessing
Member
I think every single Democrat needs to read this book immediately: The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion
We need to start understanding that context matters more than text. Democrats think they can just walk the room, slap facts down on the table, and automatically win. It doesn't work that way.
timetokill
Banned
Just saw Greg Gutfeld complaining that if you say you're against the March for Science then it seems like you're "anti-science"
lmao
lmao
ArkhamFantasy
Member
He's not a politician! its going to take time for him to learn (how to negotiate)!
David Frum and Rick Wilson are the only ones I bother with.
Podhoretz is a fucking hack.
shinra-bansho
Member
Someone explain to me... why anybody even gives much of a crap about the Omaha mayoralty such that it was worth all this intraparty discontent.
I'm assuming 50 state strategy rah rah. But that really doesn't seem like it would live or die on a nobody mayoral race in Nebraska.
I'm assuming 50 state strategy rah rah. But that really doesn't seem like it would live or die on a nobody mayoral race in Nebraska.
Autodidact
Banned
Proxy war between "the establishment" (Evil Empire music) and the angels of St. Bernard.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
Sure, I don't think we should (or really need to) run candidates like Bill again for President. But if W.J. Clinton signed up to run for governor of Arkansas and had a shot to win it, I think it seems like a good thing to do.
I really don't want to hear over and over again that Dems keep losing state houses and governor's mansions and then also we should actually be running Bernie Sanders and Liz Warren in all 50 states. If there are things you actually would compromise on, state them and why they'd help win! If not, then have fun in California while some of us rot in the deep South.
I actually had a dream the other day that I was filthy rich and got called in to testify about something in front of Ryan, and I Tony Stark'd the whole thing and when it was over, I just turned to him and said, "Oh and Paul? Don't fuck with me again" and then I winked and walked out.
I'm sure my voice would crack or something if I actually did this, but still, led to a good morning.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Please don't cite David Frum as a "smart" conservative.
He wrote the Axis of Evil speech and is a terrible neocon.
He wrote the Axis of Evil speech and is a terrible neocon.
Frum is a weird case because he loves military action and immigration restriction but he also thinks the Republican Party is an ideologically paralyzed disaster and Trump is an immoral Nazi. Which is correct!
So I view him as part of the national popular front, but sure post-fascism I would certainly drop him.
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