Fenderputty
Banned
Bingo. Monetary unity without fiscal unity. Greece needs to be able to defecit spend but the EU needs to be able to tell Greece to fuck off with their retirement age.
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PoliGAF 2017 |OT2| Well, maybe McMaster isn't a traitor.
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Bingo. Monetary unity without fiscal unity. Greece needs to be able to defecit spend but the EU needs to be able to tell Greece to fuck off with their retirement age.
I mean I think I'd incline for a version where Greece is allowed to do deficit spending and in exchange they give up nothing, but sure.
Really don't see how, impeachment proceedings would only require a simple majority in the house but you need 2/3rds majority in the senate to convict/remove. The only way trump gets removed is if a republican house initiates it so that they can keep a republican in the white house (should they also go after Pence for being implicitly involved). Dems in the house can use impeachment as a way to force republicans on the defense because we all know Trump is already guilty on a ton of impeachable offenses just in the conflict of interest arena, but there is no way they will vote him out of office to save face knowing it likely means they will be voting in a democratic house member to replace.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Confession: now that I have some understanding of deficit spending I don't really understand what are the benefits of the Euro? Just greater unity between EU members and ending transaction costs?
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
For some countries there was more confidence in the ECB to hit the non-inflationary rate of employment than under the control of the domestic central bank (which was sometimes just the government anyway). Accordingly, that would mean lower interest rates to increase investment and the like. I think there was also a lot more optimism when the Euro was conceived as an idea about the potential progress of the European project. For example, I think in the 1990s most people would have thought Eurobonds would have been a thing by now. A lot of the Euro was very much 'this can get patched as we go along' without foreseeing the obstructionism that would infect the process.
Fenderputty
Banned
You're not Germany. Lol
Why should the German population support earlier retirement of a Greek individual? Fiscal unity would have have provided Merkel the political cover she needed for reelection while still advocating for more Greek defecit spending.
JesseEwiak
Member
Basically, yes. Imagine if for hundreds of years, North America had gone through dozens of wars between various states ending with say, Texas trying to conquer North America whole also trying to commit genocide on all Hispanics in North America.
Unity and reasons to be more connected would sound like a good thing. Unfortunately, the EU is in this weird middle spot where it's more than just a regulation harmonization and free trade agency and less than a United States of Europe.
It's basically be like if California told Mississippi, ok, you can't deficit spend bit were also not going to send you any money either during an economic downturn.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Because the Euro is undervalued for Germany and overvalued for Greece, which allows Germany to have stunning success as a Western exporter while trapping Greece in debt spiral. Much of Germany's current economic well-being derives directly from the suffering of Greece (and Spain and Portugal etc).
I mean, that's a great situation for Germany to be in and a purely self-interested German politician has no reason to give a shit (other than doing what is necessary to persuade Greece to keep going on with the whole charade), but from a moral perspective, Merkel's treatment of Greece is pretty disgusting.
Fenderputty
Banned
I agree with all this! The lack of fiscal unity ensures politicians will continue to look out for their own countries succes over the EU as a whole.
Using the Euro shows your dedication to the principles of a united Europe.
That's...mostly it. Literally the point of the euro was that after having a monetary union for a while they'd decide to have a fiscal union because it would make more sense. It's moving slowly but everything EU does.
Well, they wouldn't, but that's why I want the EU to do it! The fact that Germans wouldn't support it does not mean it's not a good policy for them.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Only if they also got rid of Pence.
Dems would be doing the GOP a favor by getting rid of Trump and letting Pence take his place, if anything. Trump's idiot base would be riled up against the Democrats for removing Fearless Leader and the GOP would have a more presentable candidate going into 2020. Maybe. Idk.
Yup. The austerity measures benefitted Germany at the expense of those nations.
The US is not pro-Austerity. Both Dubya's administration and Obama's went full Keynesian in the aftermath of the recession.
The big drawback to the Euro is that it ropes everyone into the same monetary policy across the EU even though they have radically different economic needs. Because they're not as federalized as the US, it's caused enormous issues (as seen in Greece, Spain, etc.)
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Even getting rid of Pence gives us Ryan, who is probably just as evil and possibly dumber. Unless the hope is that he'll pick Kasich or someone that's a mild improvement as a VP before he gets impeached like Ford did with Rockefeller.
I was saying Merkel was, which she is.
Yes, and I'm saying that's not in line w/ the views of the US economic mainstream on either the right or the left.
Coriolanus
Banned
boy does this discussion on greece take me back.
fwiw greece's still dealing with a 23% unemployment rate. raising the retirement age even more while that's going on... yeesh.
fwiw greece's still dealing with a 23% unemployment rate. raising the retirement age even more while that's going on... yeesh.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
I'm not sure what that has to do with what I said. I was just describing why people don't like Merkel!
That said, the GOP advocates for austerity all the time, it was sort of an important part of the Tea Party and Romney's campaign and Obama was willing to make social security and Medicare cuts!
Aaron Strife
Banned
If Dems won the House in 2018 (only way impeachment proceedings get rolling), Ryan wouldn't be Speaker anymore. Pelosi or another Democrat would.
I mean, people don't like Merkel because she's the head neoliberal in charge.
I personally like Merkel fine, but then I would, wouldn't I? Except I wish that she had had more moral courage on Greece, but it would seem literally nobody in Europe did. IT'S THE CORNERSTONE OF YOUR CIVILIZATION GUYS*
* Okay, not Germany's civilization, I guess.
I personally like Merkel fine, but then I would, wouldn't I? Except I wish that she had had more moral courage on Greece, but it would seem literally nobody in Europe did. IT'S THE CORNERSTONE OF YOUR CIVILIZATION GUYS*
* Okay, not Germany's civilization, I guess.
Because you compared her and her views directly to the US as though they were quite similar?
The tea party wing advocates for it, but they never win their battles on this stuff (see: the blowback RyanCare and TrumpBudget are getting) and the disastrous initial response to the Great Depression is permanently etched in our economic history.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Oh hurr I'm a dummy.
I mean some Republicans in swing seats realizing it would be politically unpopular is different. A lot of the blowback to Ryancare is coming from the Tea Party finding it to not have enough austerity!
I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue with here. I was just saying Merkel is a conservative politician, which she is, which is why people on the left don't like her. I don't think that's controversial?
excelsiorlef
Member
Ahh didn't know the 2/3rds rule.
excelsiorlef
Member
Wouldn't there be a Democratic Party appointed Speaker though if they retook the house?
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Yeah I'm just a dummy who forgot.
The Speaker doesn't even have to be a member of the house. (In the event that Pelosi were to... not want the job promotion.)
excelsiorlef
Member
It presents a weird scenario where the Dems if they had enough could literally take the Presidency mid term.
Yep that's why I said appointed
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Pelosi may be the only reason Dems do not take the House. She is the most hated political figure in America right now.
I think that's a little bit of an exaggeration given our current president and speaker of the house. I don't think she's even the most hated figure in the Democratic party if you factor in people like Joe Mancin who is actively getting primary threats.
excelsiorlef
Member
What a shock a hard working, dedicated, intelligent woman is hated on by both the right and whatever we want to call the other side...
Sounds familiar.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Receipts?
But anyway, back when she actually was the least popular politician (2009ish) in the country she had this to say
Indeed. He's a hack though.
JesseEwiak
Member
I realize it would never happen and would actually be a bad idea, but I kind of want Speaker Hillary or Obama if we win the House.
Pelosi is awesome though. She saved Paulson's ass when the GOP abandoned Bush's mortgage bailout, and she lead Obama through the final charge on the ACA after Scott Brown won.
The differences between the 111th's and 115th's productivity and seriousness owe as much to the gap in skill/leadership between Pelosi and Ryan, as Obama and Trump.
The differences between the 111th's and 115th's productivity and seriousness owe as much to the gap in skill/leadership between Pelosi and Ryan, as Obama and Trump.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
Obviously not bloody, but if this happened it's basically our first coup.
RastaMentality
Banned
Pelosi is incredibly skillful. this thread has gone over this time and time again. I doubt she herself would want to be president (maybe, who knows) in the event of a duo impeachment. But there might even be a new speaker in 2018 if we win.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Well, first successful one anyways.
What the fuck are you talking about
...huh?
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
AL rep:
I don't understand this - shouldn't you wait until it is fixed in the bill before voting yes?
Maybe Trump has only ever negotiated with stupid people and that's why he believes he's such a great negotiator.
Abinash117
Member
AL rep:
I don't understand this - shouldn't you wait until it is fixed in the bill before voting yes?
I guess since Trump was confident and looked determined he believed him? Americans seem to believe what you say as long as you are very confident. I guess playing yourself up can work wonders.
There's a reason that right-wing media is filled with ads for scams.
Tranqueris
Banned
AL rep:
I don't understand this - shouldn't you wait until it is fixed in the bill before voting yes?
10 minutes later with a different person.
"Screw those voters, we need tax cuts for the rich"
Trump: "You're right. I support these tax cuts, one thousand percent."
The secret is to shout out "I'M VERY SMART. I HAVE A VERY GOOD BRAIN" over and over again. Then everyone will understand that you are serious and trustworthy.
shinra-bansho
Member
Neoliberal drone strike Merkel, thinking she could get a handshake from man of the people Donald.
AL rep:
I don't understand this - shouldn't you wait until it is fixed in the bill before voting yes?
The way I'm reading this, the Rep already wanted to say yes but he needed an excuse not to say no.
That seems much more likely. Can just use Trump as the excuse, which isn't a bad concept to use when he can then blame Trump later to try and shield himself (though it wouldn't work well).
Aaron Strife
Banned
TBH this is why I think they wouldn't go through with impeaching both Trump and Pence.
Trump? Sure, no one in power gives a fuck about him, the establishment GOP would have preferred Pence from Day 1.
Getting rid of both of them to install an unelected Democratic president would incite riots I think, or at least a startling number of lone wolves.
That being said if they get Trump and something and find out Pence was involved, they absolutely should go after him too. Let him appoint a Romney type Republican unaffiliated with the administration to take his place when he gets the boot. The only people who would still care are the base voters who liked Trump. Swapping Pence for a generic Republican wouldn't do much damage.
But this is all very hypothetical anyway.
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