PoliGAF 2017 |OT2| Well, maybe McMaster isn't a traitor.

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Valhelm said:
Are you, though? Half your post history is defending status-quo Democrats from left-wing criticism and clinging to a failing establishment in the name of pragmatism.
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The Democratic Party is not a "failing establishment".

If you want to help beat the GOP, join. If you don't, you're not helping.
 
It's not remotely appropriate for Amber Frost to be put on trial because of jokes made by her friend. Nick Mullen doesn't have any meaningful connection to her career or the rest of the Chapo Crew.

This sounds a lot like the right-wing skewering of candidate Obama for his relationship to Jeremiah Wright and Bill Ayers.

kirblar said:
The Democratic Party is not a "failing establishment".

If you want to help beat the GOP, join. If you don't, you're not helping.
Click to expand...

It absolutely is. Besides being unable to beat the least qualified, least professional presidential candidate ever, the Democratic leadership has seen 900 state legislature seat slip away. The Democrats' slide to the right on everything but civil liberties hasn't helped them at all, and until the Democrats realize this they'll continue to lose.

The Democratic Party is less popular than Donald Trump. This shouldn't be possible.
 
Valhelm said:
Are you, though? Half your post history is defending status-quo Democrats from left-wing criticism and clinging to a failing establishment in the name of pragmatism.
Click to expand...

Probably not the best road to go down. Pigeon has outlined his philosophy pretty well, especially in regards to the marriage between social and economic justice.
 
The Technomancer said:
This is

uhm

not at all a good answer, to me. "This humor that seems offensive is really just ironic" is a huge red flag
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Yup it's basically the same argument that various other defenders of sexism and racism has on the right such as Colin Moriarty - "bit the girlfriends of his close friends like him and are liberal, so it's impossible for him to be racist and or sexist."

That's not even getting into the Chapos circles tendency to look away as their loyal fanbase misogynocally attack any woman slightly to the right of them who criticises them Left in any way.
 
Valhelm said:
It's not remotely appropriate for Amber Frost to be put on trial because of jokes made by her friend. Nick Mullen doesn't have any meaningful connection to her career or the rest of the Chapo Crew.

This sounds a lot like the right-wing skewering of candidate Obama for his relationship to Jeremiah Wright and Bill Ayers.
Click to expand...

EDIT: nvm for now
 
Valhelm said:
Are you, though? Half your post history is defending status-quo Democrats from left-wing criticism and clinging to a failing establishment in the name of pragmatism.
Click to expand...

And the other half is arguing for the moral necessity of a basic income and saying we need to do something about the economic conditions in Appalachia...in 2012.

I mean I guess there's two possibilities. One is that I'm secretly a centrist who lies about being a socialist constantly and laid a multi-year trail of false evidence by advocating for socialist policies, all so that I could falsely criticize upstanding socialist podcasts by saying their jokes are bigoted.

The other is that actually you just like something that's problematic, you feel defensive about it, and you're throwing out a narrative that feels comfortable to you which allows you to dismiss all social justice critique as coming from "centrists" trying to undermine your ideology, giving you the freedom to like whatever sexist and racist stuff you want without having to self-examine.

I'll let history be the judge.
 
Valhelm said:
It's not remotely appropriate for Amber Frost to be put on trial because of jokes made by her friend. Nick Mullen doesn't have any meaningful connection to her career or the rest of the Chapo Crew.

This sounds a lot like the right-wing skewering of candidate Obama for his relationship to Jeremiah Wright and Bill Ayers.
Click to expand...
I don't know who either of these people are. I see a tweet by Nick Mullen that under no circumstances is funny or ironic. I then see I believe Amber Frost explain away this behavior. Not sure what conclusion you want me to draw from this.
 
The disdain for the Meals on Wheels program and head start is gutting me. Holy shit. I'll take spicey any day of the week than to hear Mulvaney shit in the poor and disenfranchised so hard.
 
Valhelm said:
It absolutely is. Besides being unable to beat the least qualified, least professional presidential candidate ever, the Democratic leadership has seen 900 state legislature seat slip away. The Democrats' slide to the right on everything but civil liberties hasn't helped them at all, and until the Democrats realize this they'll continue to lose.

The Democratic Party is less popular than Donald Trump. This shouldn't be possible.
Click to expand...
The entire western world has had a trans-national global far-right uprising.

The idea that this is all "THE DEMOCRATS FAULT" is ridiculous, considering that Labour went full lefty and has been decimated even worse.

Obama did a shit job w/ the DNC which exacerbated the issue, but the current DNC leadership realizes that and is trying to fix it!

It's a FPTP system. Get on board, or be happy giving half your votes to the GOP.
 
JesseEwiak said:
Yup it's basically the same argument that various other defenders of sexism and racism has on the right such as Colin Moriarty - "bit the girlfriends of his close friends like him and are liberal, so it's impossible for him to be racist and or sexist."

That's not even getting into the Chapos circles tendency to look away as their loyal fanbase misogynocally attack any woman slightly to the right of them who criticises them Left in any way.
Click to expand...

Yeah it very much comes off as a "but my best friend is black!" answer.
 
Anyone can easily say that the Director is flatly admitting that feeding poor children and the elderly does not have a tangible benefit.
 
pigeon said:
.

The other is that actually you just like something that's problematic, you feel defensive about it, and you're throwing out a narrative that feels comfortable to you which allows you to dismiss all social justice critique as coming from "centrists" trying to undermine your ideology, giving you the freedom to like whatever sexist and racist stuff you want without having to self-examine.

I'll let history be the judge.
Click to expand...

This is basically gamers in a nutshell. All liberals until someone funny makes a rape joke, then it's "you need to lighten up" and "there are bigger issues."
 
pigeon said:
And the other half is arguing for the moral necessity of a basic income and saying we need to do something about the economic conditions in Appalachia...in 2012.

I mean I guess there's two possibilities. One is that I'm secretly a centrist who lies about being a socialist constantly and laid a multi-year trail of false evidence by advocating for socialist policies, all so that I could falsely criticize upstanding socialist podcasts by saying their jokes are bigoted.

The other is that actually you just like something that's problematic, you feel defensive about it, and you're throwing out a narrative that feels comfortable to you which allows you to dismiss all social justice critique as coming from "centrists" trying to undermine your ideology, giving you the freedom to like whatever sexist and racist stuff you want without having to self-examine.

I'll let history be the judge.
Click to expand...

This isn't about Chapo, Pigeon. It's about your stalwart opposition to left-wing policies in every political discussion. If you earnestly believe that socialism can be achieved through incremental social democratic reforms, fine. But this attitude is unhelpful because the track record for such change is pretty awful. Hard-right conservatives occupy most of our elected offices and are trying to The welfare state in the US is unraveling as inequality spirals out of control.

Radical left-wing change is and has always been necessary to create and preserve inequality, because it gives something bigger for the right to fight against. Divisive grassroots action drove the civil rights movement and labor movement before that, not slow and technocratic reformism.

A left-wing turn in the Democratic Party would not only embrace an insurgent movement of disaffected young voters, thus securing the long-term viability of the Democratic party, but also help ameliorate the horrors that the Republicans are currently wreaking on our country. I don't believe continued advocacy for unpopular and unsuccessful center-left solutions is productive. And I don't believe you can be a socialist while exerting so much energy on shutting down socialist advocacy.
 
This is a joke, he's trying hard to justify Trump's bullshit by referencing media reports when the fucking guy can call the FBI and get the answer instead of mouthing off on Twitter. This just points how ridiculous it is that Trump makes decisions based on what he hears on the news instead of facts he's elected to hear and act on.
 
Valhelm said:
This isn't about Chapo, Pigeon. It's about your stalwart opposition to left-wing policies in every political discussion.
Click to expand...

You know, that's funny, because actually it's about Chapo and how they're super problematic, but I guess you'd rather argue about something else. Wonder why?
 
Valhelm said:
This isn't about Chapo, Pigeon. It's about your stalwart opposition to left-wing policies in every political discussion. If you earnestly believe that socialism can be achieved through incremental social democratic reforms, fine. But this attitude is unhelpful because the track record for such change is pretty awful. Hard-right conservatives occupy most of our elected offices and are trying to The welfare state in the US is unraveling as inequality spirals out of control.

Radical left-wing change is and has always been necessary to create and preserve inequality, because it gives something bigger for the right to fight against. Divisive grassroots action drove the civil rights movement and labor movement before that, not slow and technocratic reformism.

A left-wing turn in the Democratic Party would not only embrace an insurgent movement of disaffected young voters, thus securing the long-term viability of the Democratic party, but also help ameliorate the horrors that the Republicans are currently wreaking on our country. I don't believe continued advocacy for unpopular and unsuccessful center-left solutions is productive. And I don't believe you can be a socialist while exerting so much energy on shutting down socialist advocacy.
Click to expand...

So you're just gonna ignore the posts about how offensive these people are when they pull the "hey, if you knew them, they're not really bad people, Just ironic" thing out
 
AntraxSuicide said:
This is basically gamers in a nutshell. All liberals until someone funny makes a rape joke, then it's "you need to lighten up" and "there are bigger issues."
Click to expand...
pigeon said:
You know, that's funny, because actually it's about Chapo and how they're super problematic, but I guess you'd rather argue about something else. Wonder why?
Click to expand...

The Chapo crew don't make rape jokes. They don't oppress anybody. There are no receipts and there's no smoking gun.

The accusations of them being bigots all boil down to their association with Nick Mullen, another podcast guy who makes a lot of stupid jokes. He isn't part of Chapo.

Some earlier Chapo eps use some casually ableist language, but nothing worse than you'd hear in an average comedy film. They toned this down because their fans asked them to stop.
 
Valhelm said:
It absolutely is. Besides being unable to beat the least qualified, least professional presidential candidate ever, the Democratic leadership has seen 900 state legislature seat slip away. The Democrats' slide to the right on everything but civil liberties hasn't helped them at all, and until the Democrats realize this they'll continue to lose.

The Democratic Party is less popular than Donald Trump. This shouldn't be possible.
Click to expand...

How many of those seats were from the South, where Democrats certainly weren't liberal or progressive? A lot of them, because Obama being elected was the final straw for a lot of them. The party hasn't moved to the right, it's very clearly moved to the left (rightfully!). Which has resulted in a lot of conservative Democrats losing influence in the party and seats in legislatures. It is truly baffling why you think it is the other way around.

And parties are always less popular than actual people, especially in the past decade. The current Democratic Party is more popular now than the Republican Party in 2009, fwiw
 
Valhelm said:
This isn't about Chapo, Pigeon. It's about your stalwart opposition to left-wing policies in every political discussion. If you earnestly believe that socialism can be achieved through incremental social democratic reforms, fine. But this attitude is unhelpful because the track record for such change is pretty awful. Hard-right conservatives occupy most of our elected offices and are trying to The welfare state in the US is unraveling as inequality spirals out of control.

Radical left-wing change is and has always been necessary to create and preserve inequality, because it gives something bigger for the right to fight against. Divisive grassroots action drove the civil rights movement and labor movement before that, not slow and technocratic reformism.

A left-wing turn in the Democratic Party would not only embrace an insurgent movement of disaffected young voters, thus securing the long-term viability of the Democratic party, but also help ameliorate the horrors that the Republicans are currently wreaking on our country. I don't believe continued advocacy for unpopular and unsuccessful center-left solutions is productive. And I don't believe you can be a socialist while exerting so much energy on shutting down socialist advocacy.
Click to expand...

You did the thing

pigeon said:
The other is that actually you just like something that's problematic, you feel defensive about it, and you're throwing out a narrative that feels comfortable to you which allows you to dismiss all social justice critique as coming from "centrists" trying to undermine your ideology, giving you the freedom to like whatever sexist and racist stuff you want without having to self-examine.
Click to expand...
 
lol i'd admit I probably didn't watch more than couple of the press briefings of the last administration so I could have missed some desperate deflection somewhere in the last 8 years, but if Obama's 3 press secs tried to filibuster their own briefing like that I'd be very surprised
 
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