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PoliGAF 2nd Pres. Debate 2008 Thread (DOW dropping, Biden is off to Home Depot)

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E

eznark

Banned
lexdysia said:
Based on what data points, fine sir?
Click to expand...

my own brilliance and common sense. Not much time for McCain to make up any ground and people like to back a winner. When both teams are shitty you may as well get on the likely winners bandwagon.
 
C

Cloudy

Banned
WTF Fox News is now crying about the Palin Newsweek cover :lol

Says she wasn't photoshopped enough LIKE OBAMA WAS on his covers

Telling folks to cancel their subscriptions :lol
 
L

lexdysia

Banned
eznark said:
my own brilliance and common sense. Not much time for McCain to make up any ground and people like to back a winner. When both teams are shitty you may as well get on the likely winners bandwagon.
Click to expand...

Tally ho!
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
eznark said:
Not much time for McCain to make up any ground and people like to back a winner.
Click to expand...

That concept works in mundane things like sports. In politics? You'd have to essentially realign your world view to change your support. Several pro-Republican GAF members have already stated that they may not vote or will vote for a third party but they sure as hell are not going to vote Obama.

Let's also just ignore the fact that you, know, maybe some independents, after seeing Obama and Biden in the debates, have more confidence in them and their ability to lead the nation in the right direction, right? No way Obama could be a more appealing candidate! For goodness sakes! He's black and he's a socialist liberal! Who'd vote for that?! :lol

When both teams are shitty you may as well get on the likely winners bandwagon.
Click to expand...

Clearly, both teams are not shitty. At least one team has over 50% support in the polls (likely higher if not for the race factor). And, as mentioned, people don't just change their ideologies and worldviews to "jump on the bandwagon"...it's a ridiculous assertion. I would never vote for McCain, even if he was ahead in the polls, as most Democrat-GAF would agree with.
 
B

Barrett2

Member
CharlieDigital said:
That concept works in mundane things like sports. In politics? You'd have to essentially realign your world view to change your support. Several pro-Republican GAF members have already stated that they may not vote or will vote for a third party but they sure as hell are not going to vote Obama.
Click to expand...

I think you might be on to something here. I just got an email from my grandma this morning, a life-long RABID conservative. She said she refuses to vote for Obama, but now she doesn't think she can vote for McCain, and will probably not vote at all this year.

After being in power for the last decade, a lot of Republicans are probably not mentally prepared to support a loser. Depressed Republican turnout this year?
 
G

gcubed

Member
i expect a rather muted debate boost for Obama by the end of the week, as i think Obama is hitting his ceiling at around 52%
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
lawblob said:
I think you might be on to something here. I just got an email from my grandma this morning, a life-long RABID conservative. She said she refuses to vote for Obama, but now she doesn't think she can vote for McCain, and will probably not vote at all this year.

After being in power for the last decade, a lot of Republicans are probably not mentally prepared to support a loser. Depressed Republican turnout this year?
Click to expand...

I really doubt people aren't going to vote McCain because he's losing in the polls.

McCain's message has basically been shitting on conservatives principles left and right. Just check out Republican GAF's reactions; his message doesn't jive with his parties basic premises and this, more than anything, has failed him.

gcubed said:
i expect a rather muted debate boost for Obama by the end of the week, as i think Obama is hitting his ceiling at around 52%
Click to expand...

I think he will go higher (1-2%) and McCain will go much lower. Heck, the gap may even open up to double digit leads by the end of the week.
 
J

Jason's Ultimatum

Member
Cloudy said:
WTF Fox News is now crying about the Palin Newsweek cover :lol

Says she wasn't photoshopped enough LIKE OBAMA WAS on his covers

Telling folks to cancel their subscriptions :lol
Click to expand...


Last night after the debate, Fox News had it breaking news that feds raided ACORN offices. :lol
 
E

eznark

Banned
CharlieDigital said:
That concept works in mundane things like sports. In politics? You'd have to essentially realign your world view to change your support. Several pro-Republican GAF members have already stated that they may not vote or will vote for a third party but they sure as hell are not going to vote Obama.

Let's also just ignore the fact that you, know, maybe some independents, after seeing Obama and Biden in the debates, have more confidence in them and their ability to lead the nation in the right direction, right? No way Obama could be a more appealing candidate! For goodness sakes! He's black! :lol



Clearly, both teams are not shitty. At least one team has over 50% support in the polls (likely higher if not for the race factor). And, as mentioned, people don't just change their ideologies and worldviews to "jump on the bandwagon"...it's a ridiculous assertion. I would never vote for McCain, even if he was ahead in the polls, as most Democrat-GAF would agree with.
Click to expand...

It's not about people switching. A non-vote/3rd party vote is as good as a pro-vote for the leader. Yes, Obama is a more appealing candidate to many, I'm not discounting that, I'm just saying why I think this will turn into a near landslide. I think Obama will win, but McCain's shitty campaign will increase the margin.

If you are independent in October, clearly you aren't exactly enamored with either candidate. Shitty may be too strong a word. Independents will go to the winning team. Plenty of people view politics as sport (us v. them, red v. blue) and pick a side as their team, regardless of issues.
 
3

3rdman

Member
Cloudy said:
WTF Fox News is now crying about the Palin Newsweek cover :lol

Says she wasn't photoshopped enough LIKE OBAMA WAS on his covers

Telling folks to cancel their subscriptions :lol
Click to expand...
I haven't seen Fox in years....They must be in meltdown mode. I hate to count my chickens before they hatch and all but God I'm looking forward to Nov. 4th...Fox will be full of EPIC meltdowns.
 
Keylime

Keylime

ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
Anyone have a picture of this cover? What are they bothered about?
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
eznark said:
I think Obama will win, but McCain's shitty campaign will increase the margin.
Click to expand...

It's not his "shitty campaign"; McCain is not cut out to be a President. He has none of the qualities to be a leader and deal maker on the world stage. The man is filled with incomprehensible contempt and lacks any sort of ability to show respect to his opponents. This does not translate well for a US President who may have to meet with and negotiate with world leaders that he may find contemptible. Aside from this, to call it a "shitty campaign" is to ignore that McCain had the ultimate call on many of the staff leaders (who in turn controlled the selection of the rest of the campaign staff).

If you want to blame anything, say it outright: McCain has demonstrated poor judgment in how he has run his campaign. He has chosen terrible decision makers at all levels of his campaign. His "shitty campaign" is a reflection of how he would end up being a "shitty president" because it's clear that he has no ability to judge or guide talent. It's not that this staff is filled with bumbling idiots, it's that he has not shown the leadership required to guide his own campaign. If that comes across as a "shitty campaign", then McCain should come across as a "shitty leader".

If you are independent in October, clearly you aren't exactly enamored with either candidate. Shitty may be too strong a word. Independents will go to the winning team. Plenty of people view politics as sport (us v. them, red v. blue) and pick a side as their team, regardless of issues.
Click to expand...

"Independents will go to the winning team." :lol I know it's hard for you to type it, but look: the fact is that the US is still largely a working middle class country. Obama has made a point to focus on middle class issues. In this run to the Presidency, only ONE candidate has been focusing on the issues which concern most Americans and only ONE has put the middle class squarely in the sights of his policy: Obama. To wave your and hand say "They're just rooting for the winning team" is ridiculous and utterly blind. This is not how politics work -- sports, yes. Obama is the better candidate running a better campaign...in essence, being a better leader.

Obama is not "winning because he's winning" (that's basically your argument :lol); he's winning because his message and vision appeal to the majority of Americans and he has shown, in these debates, that he has the leadership qualities that people can instinctively feel. Confidence, intelligence, breadth of knowledge on the issues, and calm demeanor.

If all that mattered to winning was winning the polls, then shit, Fox news could singlehandedly win the election for McCain with their text polls :lol
 
Nabs

Nabs

Member
yikes

2po4l6b.jpg
 
B

Barrett2

Member
RubxQub said:
Anyone have a picture of this cover? What are they bothered about?
Click to expand...

This is the title of the cover story. ^_^

Newsweek said:
The Palin Problem

Yes, she won the debate by not imploding. But governing requires knowledge, and mindless populism is just that—mindless.
Click to expand...
 
N

Nazgul_Hunter

Member
Nabs said:
yikes

[IMG.]http://i37.tinypic.com/2po4l6b.jpg[/IMG]
Click to expand...

That is pretty bad, they usually airbrush pimples and other stuff out. I guess she wanted to be seen as folksy and that's what she got . Also, is she wearing Alaska earrings?
 
E

eznark

Banned
CharlieDigital said:
It's not his "shitty campaign"; McCain is not cut out to be a President. He has none of the qualities to be a leader and deal maker on the world stage. The man is filled with incomprehensible contempt and lacks any sort of ability to show respect to his opponents. This does not translate well for a US President. Aside from this, to call it a "shitty campaign" is to ignore that McCain had the ultimate call on many of the staff leaders (who in turn controlled the selection of the rest of the campaign staff).

If you want to blame anything, say it outright: McCain has demonstrated poor judgment in how he has run his campaign. He has chosen terrible decision makers at all levels of his campaign. His "shitty campaign" is a reflection of how he would end up being a "shitty president" because it's clear that he has no ability to judge or guide talent. It's not that this staff is filled with bumbling idiots, it's that he has not shown the leadership required to guide his own campaign. If that comes across as a "shitty campaign", then McCain should come across as a "shitty leader".



"Independents will go to the winning team." :lol I know it's hard for you to type it, but look: the fact is that the US is still largely a working middle class country. Obama has made a point to focus on middle class issues. In this run to the Presidency, only ONE candidate has been focusing on the issues which concern most Americans and only ONE has put the middle class squarely in the sights of his policy: Obama. To wave your and hand say "They're just rooting for the winning team" is ridiculous and utterly blind. This is not how politics work -- sports, yes.

It all that mattered to winning was winning the polls, then shit, Fox news could singlehandedly win the election for McCain with their text polls :lol
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you're arguing with me about? I condensed your entire first paragraph into "shitty campaign." I prefer to keep it concise.

I'm not saying Independents breaking for the leader will be the reason Obama will win, I'm saying it will increase his margin. I have no idea why you're getting so worked up about it or why you think it would be difficult for me to say Obama is better than McCain. Voters breaking for the perceived winner isn't some sort of new phenomenon. It was one of the reason so many people were up in arms over the 2000 election coverage and outlets calling states incorrectly. Perceptions affect voters reactions. Obama's lead will cause some republicans to stay home and some independents to break for the winner, which will increase his margins. I don't care about the policies, that wasn't what my prediction of a big polling jump for Obama next week was based on.
 
S

Sharp

Member
eznark said:
I'm not sure what you're arguing with me about? I condensed your entire first paragraph into "shitty campaign." I prefer to keep it concise.

I'm not saying Independents breaking for the leader will be the reason Obama will win, I'm saying it will increase his margin. I have no idea why you're getting so worked up about it or why you think it would be difficult for me to say Obama is better than McCain. Voters breaking for the perceived winner isn't some sort of new phenomenon. It was one of the reason so many people were up in arms over the 2000 election coverage and outlets calling states incorrectly. Perceptions affect voters reactions. Obama's lead will cause some republicans to stay home and some independents to break for the winner, which will increase his margins. I don't care about the policies, that wasn't what my prediction of a big polling jump for Obama next week was based on.
Click to expand...
Historically the loser closes in as election day draws near, so I'm not sure there will a big polling jump at all.
 
Keylime

Keylime

ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
lil smoke said:
Anyone got a pic of Obama's 3 mil overhead projector :lol . Gotta admit, that one was pretty good!
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Without knowing the specifics, I have to imagine the 3 million dollars wasn't for a classroom style overhead projector. He said it as for a planetarium.

I'd be curious to know what it was as well, but it makes absolutely zero impact to anything.
 
S

Solaros

Member
Follow up to when someone hacked Palin's Account (I think it is the same one)

newsvine said:
A federal grand jury in Tennessee has indicted a man in connection with the hacking of the e-mail account of Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin.

Federal officials say that 20-year-old David Kernell of Knoxville, Tenn., was indicted by a federal grand jury in Knoxville for intentionally accessing without authorization the e-mail account of Palin, Alaska's governor.

Kernell has turned himself in to authorities and is scheduled to be arraigned Wednesday before a magistrate.

Kernell faces a maximum of five years in prison, a $250,000 fine and a three-year term of supervised release.
Click to expand...
 
E

eznark

Banned
Sharp said:
Historically the loser closes in as election day draws near, so I'm not sure there will a big polling jump at all.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure either, but it's more fun to watch the polls if I make predictions.
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
eznark said:
I'm not sure what you're arguing with me about? I condensed your entire first paragraph into "shitty campaign." I prefer to keep it concise.

I'm not saying Independents breaking for the leader will be the reason Obama will win, I'm saying it will increase his margin. I have no idea why you're getting so worked up about it or why you think it would be difficult for me to say Obama is better than McCain. Voters breaking for the perceived winner isn't some sort of new phenomenon. It was one of the reason so many people were up in arms over the 2000 election coverage and outlets calling states incorrectly. Perceptions affect voters reactions. Obama's lead will cause some republicans to stay home and some independents to break for the winner, which will increase his margins. I don't care about the policies, that wasn't what my prediction of a big polling jump for Obama next week was based on.
Click to expand...

You keep trying to spin this as "independents are going to vote for Obama because he's winning" but this is completely ignorant.

Of course independents vote the winners historically :lol it is the reason they won: they were able to convince non-affiliated voters to vote for them. But it's NOT because he is already winning and people are just jumping on the bandwagon blindly. They are voting for him because his message is aimed squarely at them and he is the superior candidate this cycle.

It's completely ludicrous to claim that "Obama is winning because he's winning"; this whole argument that people are going to shift their worldviews and political leanings just because Obama is winning is ridiculous. People shift their worldviews and political leanings through learning about the candidates, through becoming educated on the issues, through seeing if the candidates can display the leadership qualities that are required for the office of the President. In other words, he's winning because he's been able to get people - independents - to shift their worldviews and political leanings; he's wining because he has done a better job.

Only one person has done that well this year: Obama.
 
Keylime

Keylime

ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
Was the original doctored? Where did this picture come from!?

2po4l6b.jpg
PalinOriginal.png
 
M

Malleymal

You now belong to FMT.
I got a thing for palin, but she should not be able to run for any type of office. I do have a feeling that she will be back in 8 years after training day and night and be a force...
 
T

tak

Member
RubxQub said:
Was the original doctored? Where did this picture come from!?

2po4l6b.jpg
PalinOriginal.png
Click to expand...
The one on the right is clearly doctored. You can see clear photoshop related smears and other things.
 
Keylime

Keylime

ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
tak said:
The one on the right is clearly doctored. You can see clear photoshop related smears and other things.
Click to expand...
What?! No! NOOOOO!
 
E

eznark

Banned
CharlieDigital said:
You keep trying to spin this as "independents are going to vote for Obama because he's winning" but this is completely ignorant.

Of course independents vote the winners historically :lol it is the reason they won: they were able to convince non-affiliated voters to vote for them. But it's NOT because he is already winning and people are just jumping on the bandwagon blindly. They are voting for him because his message is aimed squarely at them and he is the superior candidate this cycle.

It's completely ludicrous to claim that "Obama is winning because he's winning"; this whole argument that people are going to shift their worldviews and political leanings just because Obama is winning is ridiculous. People shift their worldviews and political leanings through learning about the candidates, through becoming educated on the issues, through seeing if the candidates can display the leadership qualities that are required for the office of the President. In other words, he's winning because he's been able to get people - independents - to shift their worldviews and political leanings; he's wining because he has done a better job.

Only one person has done that well this year: Obama.
Click to expand...

Nah, all I'm saying is that the backing-a-winner phenomenon is going to push him from 55% of the popular vote to near 60%. It's not going to win him the presidency, his campaign and the economy will do that, but it will make it ugly for GOP'ers.

No one is going to "shift their worldviews." If they had concrete and inflexible world views they wouldn't be independents.
 
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