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PoliGAF Interim Thread of Tears/Lapel Pins (ScratchingHisCheek-Gate)

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T

tanod

when is my burrito
McCain Campaign said:
Trail activities like his late-night talk show appearances should eliminate any voter doubt about the Arizona senator’s stamina for the office
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Late night talk shows which are all taped in the morning and afternoon of the day they play on TV. That's fucking bullshit to the nth degree!
 
B

Bowser

Member
Gallup polling on Obama's "bitter" comments:

Overall:
080416Dems1_jb5v9e2.gif


Income:
080416Dems2_j9bb53.gif


Education:
080416Dems3_u2h5x9.gif


Financial Concerns:
080416Dems4_z4m1f6gif.gif


Religion:
080416Dems5_u7n1a9.gif


It certainly appears that, as of April 14 interviewing, Obama's remarks have not hurt him -- either among the Democratic electorate as a whole or among the Democratic constituencies Obama was referring to. Wednesday night's debate may shine a spotlight on those comments and make them known to a wider audience, so the possibility remains that Obama has not completely weathered the storm.

Conceivably, Obama could be hurt more in a general-election context, where voters with the characteristics he describes might already have an inkling to vote Republican, and such remarks could nudge them more in that direction. But Gallup's general-election tracking data -- like that for the Democratic nomination -- have so far shown no deterioration in Obama's standing versus presumptive Republican nominee John McCain.
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http://www.gallup.com/poll/106561/Obama-Support-Among-Bitter-Voters-Unchanged.aspx
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
chaostrophy said:
WTF? McCain is basically Bush III, and isn't Bush II's approval rating near 20%? Where is the rest of McCain's support coming from?
Click to expand...

People may not approve of Bush, but that doesn't mean they won't vote Republican. Besides, McCain hasn't really been defined yet, he's been allowed to cast his own shadow.
 
B

BotoxAgent

Member
Hillary must be frustrated that none of these asinine attacks on Obama hasn't been sticking as bad as she hoped.

I wonder what character she will pretend to be in the next few weeks.
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
Xeke said:
Bittergate was a total bust.
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you mean it was media-manufactured and had the irony of elitist politicians and pundits calling someone else an elitist, all the while pretending, nay, portraying themselves as identifying with offended 'blue collar' Americans?

chaostrophy said:
WTF? McCain is basically Bush III, and isn't Bush II's approval rating near 20%? Where is the rest of McCain's support coming from?
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you didn't get the memo? Johm McCain's a maverick, a straight-talker. he carries water for no party, though principally because he's too old to lug things around and might be a bit senile.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
PhoenixDark said:
She's coming off wins in Ohio and Texas (yes, it was a win for her). While the sniper story hurt her, Obama's been on the defensive all month with either Wright or Bittergate. She's posed to win Penn., and I really think the margin of victory will be larger than expected (I'm sticking to my 10% prediction). After that I think she'll be able to erase Obama's lead in Indiana, where the demographic favor her. But of course the problem is that she won't win handily enough to make much of a gain in delegates
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Actually didn't Obama win the last 2 contest after Ohio and Texas? so wouldn't that mean that Obama has the momentum?
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
T

Triumph

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
She's coming off wins in Ohio and Texas (yes, it was a win for her). While the sniper story hurt her, Obama's been on the defensive all month with either Wright or Bittergate. She's posed to win Penn., and I really think the margin of victory will be larger than expected (I'm sticking to my 10% prediction). After that I think she'll be able to erase Obama's lead in Indiana, where the demographic favor her. But of course the problem is that she won't win handily enough to make much of a gain in delegates
Click to expand...
She's not "coming off of" wins in TX and OH. She's more than a month gone from those wins, one of which was a tie, and has since lost the only two contests in the interim by decisive margins. Now, if PA had been a couple of weeks after March 4th you'd have a case. In reality all you have is spin.

And "Obama on the defensive" has by almost all metrics cut into her 20 point lead pretty severely. Now, I don't think he's gonna win but it will be within 10 points. Would it have been closer without Wright and bitter-gate? Maybe. Probably. But saying that Hillary has ANY momentum, much less ALL OF IT right now is... well, it's the sort of thing you would say. Get my drift?
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
chaostrophy said:
WTF? McCain is basically Bush III, and isn't Bush II's approval rating near 20%? Where is the rest of McCain's support coming from?
Click to expand...

It's the maverick image, so alot of people don't realize how close their policies are. I can't tell you how many people I've met you think McCain is pro-abortion simply because of the maverick image. Once we get closer to the general the comparision between McCain and Bush should increase. Unless of course the Democrats are incompete...... shit
 
J

J.ceaz

Member
Yeah I see Hillary relentlessly attacking Obama on this in attempts to make him say something stupid. And no doubt the moderators will also bring it up. If that's the case this debate will be rediculously easy for Obama all he'd have to do is answer one question on it short and concise and if he's pressed again start talking about how this isn't important to voters and how they're wasting a forum for intelligent debate on issues important to pennsylvanians like the economy. Hill doesn't want a debate like that because it'll be a wash and she can't afford to not win a debate at the moment.
 
3

3rdman

Member
human5892 said:
As an Obama supporter, I hope she does. ;)
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I don't think she'll walk within ten feet of that statement...All Obama has to do is ask her to tell the public when was the last time she fired a gun.

If he's in a "special" mood he might just answer the question for her..."Was it in Bosnia?"
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
XxenobladerxX said:
Hillary is most definitely going to try to rip Obama over the bitter comment in tonights debate.
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It's going to be hard, with Obama right there to explain his comments while making her look dumb. He's got a chance to really since this stuff, and just say "look, I just finished paying my student loans. I grew up in a single parent household. I don't take lobbyist money. Please explain to me how I'm the elitist candidate."
 
B

backbreaker65

Banned
Here's my response for those who replied to me with those links.

Here's my anecdotal evidence as presented by Karl Rove in 2004 Presidential election.

Gay rights was on the ballot in several states and he was able to mobilize evangelicals in those states to vote against their economic interest back in 2004 and all they were focused on was Gay marriage, it was the only issue of concern for them.

To suggest it doesn't happen and voters don't vote on those things "antipathy to those who aren't like them" falls in that category.
 
X

XxenobladerxX

Member
I'm pretty sure (I think) Hillary doesn't think Obama is an elitist,but she thinks the statements he made was. Nevertheless,I still think it will be easy for Obama to address it.
 
A

APF

Member
Trying to counter data with anecdote (any guess what the big issue was for those voters btw? counter to your suggestion it wasn't gay marriage, it was national security) is rarely a good proposition. So too when you're trying to assert a falsehood, ie that evangelicals as a block voted against their economic interests, when there's little evidence of that being the case.
 
mashoutposse

mashoutposse

Ante Up
Tamanon said:
Nah, all he has to do is point-blank ask Hillary "Do you believe I am an elitist?"
Click to expand...

It's best that he just control the explanation and talk straight. His retorts thus far have been more than sufficient to not only quash this whole story, but turn it into a positive.

If I were Obama, I'd instead make a loud point that Clinton's/McCain's obliviousness to the fact that ordinary Americans are frustrated is the reason for the lack of change in Washington.
 
T

terrene

Banned
chaostrophy said:
WTF? McCain is basically Bush III, and isn't Bush II's approval rating near 20%? Where is the rest of McCain's support coming from?
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Come on, McCain has earned a lot more goodwill than Bush. Yes, McCain is at heart very conservative, but has never viewed bipartisan activity as icky, and has actually tried to reign in corporate influence rather than revel in it. Those are two bug issues that make Bush the most infuriating and divisive president in recent memory. McCain is going to get a lot of support from the center - in fact, I'd say it's an uphill battle for the Democrats to be able to successfully paint McCain as "Bush III."
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
terrene said:
Come on, McCain has earned a lot more goodwill than Bush. Yes, McCain is at heart very conservative, but has never viewed bipartisan activity as icky, and has actually tried to reign in corporate influence rather than revel in it. Those are two bug issues that make Bush the most infuriating and divisive president in recent memory. McCain is going to get a lot of support from the center - in fact, I'd say it's an uphill battle for the Democrats to be able to successfully paint McCain as "Bush III."
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::Remembers when Bush ran as a small government, compassionate conservative who pledged to ignore partisanship and work with both sides::
 
G

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
APF said:
Trying to counter data with anecdote (any guess what the big issue was for those voters btw? counter to your suggestion it wasn't gay marriage, it was national security) is rarely a good proposition. So too when you're trying to assert a falsehood, ie that evangelicals as a block voted against their economic interests, when there's little evidence of that being the case.
Click to expand...
This is like the least wordy post I've ever seen from you.
 
S

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
grandjedi6 said:
::Remembers when Bush ran as a small government, compassionate conservative who pledged to ignore partisanship and work with both sides::
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Big difference there.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Xeke said:
Bittergate was a total bust.
Click to expand...
Tell Hillary that.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/04/hillary_tv_ad_campaign_is_100.php

Here's a glimpse into Hillary's ad strategy in the final stretch of the Pennsylvania primary:

In most of Pennsylvania's markets, the only TV ad Hillary is running right now is a negative one -- the spot hitting Obama over his "small town" comments, a political ad buyer who tracks buys in Pennsylvania tells me.

The buyer says that as of this morning, that ad -- and no positive spots -- are running in the Pittsburgh, Erie, Johnstown/Altoona, and Wilkes-Barre/Scranton markets.

Meanwhile, the buyer says, in the Philadelphia and Harrisburg markets, Hillary's ad campaign is 50% negative -- she's running two spots, the new spot hitting Obama over oil companies, and another spot touting Hillary's plans to right the economy that doesn't mention Obama.

According to the buyer, the Philadelphia and Harrisburg markets add up to a bit over half the state's households.

Upshot: Nearly half the state's households are right now seeing only the "small town" spot, and the remaining half are seeing her economy spot and the oil spot hitting Obama, the buyer says.
Click to expand...
 
T

tanod

when is my burrito
grandjedi6 said:
::Remembers when Bush ran as a small government, compassionate conservative who pledged to ignore partisanship and work with both sides::
Click to expand...

::Remembers that it was painfully obvious before the 2000 election that Bush was mentally incompetent::
 
3

3rdman

Member
Annie Oakley embarrasses herself again...


Hillary Clinton On Working Class Whites In 1995: "Screw 'Em"
Click to expand...

In January 1995, as the Clintons were licking their wounds from the 1994 congressional elections, a debate emerged at a retreat at Camp David. Should the administration make overtures to working class white southerners who had all but forsaken the Democratic Party? The then-first lady took a less than inclusive approach.

"Screw 'em," she told her husband. "You don't owe them a thing, Bill. They're doing nothing for you; you don't have to do anything for them."

The statement -- which author Benjamin Barber witnessed and wrote about in his book, "The Truth of Power: Intellectual Affairs in the Clinton White House" -- was prompted by another speaker raising the difficulties of reaching "Reagan Democrats." It stands in stark contrast to the attitude the New York Democrat has recently taken on the campaign trail, in which she has presented herself as the one who candidate who understands the working-class needs.
 
T

terrene

Banned
grandjedi6 said:
::Remembers when Bush ran as a small government, compassionate conservative who pledged to ignore partisanship and work with both sides::
Click to expand...
Bush had no leg to stand on with those pledges. If anything I remember the stories of him laughing at death row inmates and what not. Remember McCain-Feingold and the hate from the party base? McCain and Bush are very different people. I'm not saying a McCain presidency wouldn't be backwards and shitty but it probably would not be as bitter and divisive as the Rove/Dubya era.
 
G

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
3rdman said:
Annie Oakley embarrasses herself again...




In January 1995, as the Clintons were licking their wounds from the 1994 congressional elections, a debate emerged at a retreat at Camp David. Should the administration make overtures to working class white southerners who had all but forsaken the Democratic Party? The then-first lady took a less than inclusive approach.

"Screw 'em," she told her husband. "You don't owe them a thing, Bill. They're doing nothing for you; you don't have to do anything for them."

The statement -- which author Benjamin Barber witnessed and wrote about in his book, "The Truth of Power: Intellectual Affairs in the Clinton White House" -- was prompted by another speaker raising the difficulties of reaching "Reagan Democrats." It stands in stark contrast to the attitude the New York Democrat has recently taken on the campaign trail, in which she has presented herself as the one who candidate who understands the working-class needs.
Click to expand...



o_O
 
C

Clevinger

Member
3rdman said:
Annie Oakley embarrasses herself again...




In January 1995, as the Clintons were licking their wounds from the 1994 congressional elections, a debate emerged at a retreat at Camp David. Should the administration make overtures to working class white southerners who had all but forsaken the Democratic Party? The then-first lady took a less than inclusive approach.

"Screw 'em," she told her husband. "You don't owe them a thing, Bill. They're doing nothing for you; you don't have to do anything for them."

The statement -- which author Benjamin Barber witnessed and wrote about in his book, "The Truth of Power: Intellectual Affairs in the Clinton White House" -- was prompted by another speaker raising the difficulties of reaching "Reagan Democrats." It stands in stark contrast to the attitude the New York Democrat has recently taken on the campaign trail, in which she has presented herself as the one who candidate who understands the working-class needs.
Click to expand...

It's one guy's word and there's no video = the media won't give a shit
 
C

chaostrophy

Member
Here's a great essay about Clinton and the media's reaction to Obama's comment. Favorite quote:

"So Hillary is no better than a dope who walks in a hick bar on a Friday night and says-- See that guy over there who looks different than us? He says we's all ignorant! Let's get 'em!

I'd say she should be ashamed of herself but it's way too late to believe the woman is capable of feeling embarrassment. Her last hope are those the village never bothered to raise."
 
DarkMage619

DarkMage619

$MSFT
Kaeru said:
What was arrogant about that? Please specify.
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You ALWAYS have to be careful about tooting your own horn. Obviously some who like Obama won't see any issue but others who may be on the fence will take these comments as arrogant. He might be not be an elitest but he does come accross as arrogant that is an issue as well.

The Dark One
 
I

Imm0rt4l

Member
DarkMage619 said:
Recent Obama comments. Dammit Obama stuff like this will get certain voters to not like you. Being confident is important but arrogance will destroy your presidential chances.

The Dark One
Click to expand...

didn't find anything arrogant about that at all, confident yea. wouldn't want an indecisive president myself.
 
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