• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PoliGAF Interim Thread of Tears/Lapel Pins (ScratchingHisCheek-Gate)

Status
Not open for further replies.

human5892

Queen of Denmark
Cheebs said:
If Carter was willing to endorse publicly Obama's team would have gone with him before Richardson, if only due to Carters very strong roots in the Christian church to negate the Wright stuff.
Maybe not -- there could've been fears that the endorsement would've been "wasted" if the Wright thing had more legs than the endorsement itself. A big gun like Carter could be more effective closer to the PA primary.

Really though, I'm just playing devil's advocate here -- I don't think Carter will publicly endorse.
 

Cheebs

Member
human5892 said:
Really though, I'm just playing devil's advocate here -- I don't think Carter will publicly endorse.
Nor do I. I think he is one of the Obama big 3 that will wait till the end just to be able to put pressure on Hillary. Though I still believe if any of those 3 would crack and come out publicly it'd be him. But I think Obama's team would almost prefer for him to act as a broker at the convention if necessary.
 

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
Yeah, it's amazing to see former Clinton loyalists jumping ship. You just KNOW they'd love to endorse Hillary, but it's obvious something is wrong and there must be incredibly compelling reasons for them to move against their more familiar option. It would worry me if I were a Clinton supporter. What do they know about Hillary or about Obama that would push them to make that leap against their personal connections? You think Clinton saw the superbowl at Richardson's place just for kicks?
 

gkryhewy

Member
VanMardigan said:
Yeah, it's amazing to see former Clinton loyalists jumping ship. You just KNOW they'd love to endorse Hillary, but it's obvious something is wrong and there must be incredibly compelling reasons for them to move against their more familiar option. It would worry me if I were a Clinton supporter. What do they know about Hillary or about Obama that would push them to make that leap against their personal connections? You think Clinton saw the superbowl at Richardson's place just for kicks?

I dunno - "once in a lifetime leader" is about as strong an endorsement as can be made.
 

gcubed

Member
gkrykewy said:
I dunno - "once in a lifetime leader" is about as strong an endorsement as can be made.

although i dont agree with the whole "someting is wrong"... if he endorsed Hillary he would have said the same thing.
 

gkryhewy

Member
gcubed said:
although i dont agree with the whole "someting is wrong"... if he endorsed Hillary he would have said the same thing.

Really? I don't think so. The best that can be said for her is that she'd be Bill Part II, and that's... twice in a lifetime.
 

Insertia

Member
Wow, that was my first time seeing that Pastor Wright video in full.

Unless you're missing braincells what he's saying is completely understandable. This was taken so far out of context I'm surprised there has not been a backlash to it. News outlets took a quote and ran with it.

All we heard was "God Damn America" when that wasn't the message. The media really played this up. I hope Obama didn't disconnect himself from his pastor because what he said was within reason.
 

Triumph

Banned
WOW. Ok, I just watched the longer sermon clip on youtube and I have to say that really, viewed in context I don't think any intelligent person would have a problem with it. Certainly there's a subset of America (one that is larger than it should be, sadly) that thinks we should be able to do whatever the fuck we want without consequences, but srsly I find it hard to take issue with Wright's sermon. Lemme watch the "GAWD DAMN AMERICA" one now...

edit: ok, seriously. I know it's probably not a good idea for the media to dredge this up again, but it would be nice to see Olbermann or maybe Charlie Rose or someone play the full sermons. But fuck the media for dumbing shit down and playing little clips of stuff. Ugh.
 

gcubed

Member
people still think this is going to the convention?

If she doesnt win decisively in PA and she loses NC, i dont see a way it will ever reach the convention.

Look at where the party is at now. McCain being out by himself as his parties nomination is starting to gain ground on both Obama and Clinton. He's changing the focus to the war again, and is free to do what he wants against the dems. Meanwhile the dems are still battling with themselves and cant put together an attack strategy against McCain. Having a republican nominee and not a democrat is really hurting the democrats right now and if she doesnt gain massive ground in PA and NC there will be intense pressure to end it before the convention. The democrats cant afford to not have a winner until the end of AUGUST.

Unless she wins by 15+ in PA and either pulls very close or has an upset in NC, i dont see this lasting until the convention. The democrats cant afford to let it last that long, and they know it.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Triumph said:
WOW. Ok, I just watched the longer sermon clip on youtube and I have to say that really, viewed in context I don't think any intelligent person would have a problem with it. Certainly there's a subset of America (one that is larger than it should be, sadly) that thinks we should be able to do whatever the fuck we want without consequences, but srsly I find it hard to take issue with Wright's sermon. Lemme watch the "GAWD DAMN AMERICA" one now...
That's the one I watched last night. My reaction was essentially, "God damn the media." For that quote at least, in context, it makes perfect sense.

Great news about the Richardson endorsement.
 

gkryhewy

Member
VanMardigan said:
Yeah, ok, I'm sure that was it. /sarcasm

What the shit are you talking about? That was a line from Richardson's endorsement of Obama, and to me it indicates that he wasn't terribly close to endorsing Hillary. That's all I was saying.

Again, what the shit?
 

woeds

Member
Has Hillary ever mentioned the people who stayed home in Michigan and Florida because they thought their vote wouldn't count? That's what bothers me every time she talks about honoring the Michigan and Florida results; the fact that a lot of people didn't vote.
 
nice letter sent out to supporters

Dear -----,

During the last year, I have shared with you my vision and hopes for this nation as we look to repair the damage of the last seven years. And you have shared your support, your ideas and your encouragement to my campaign. We have been through a lot together and that is why I wanted to tell you that, after careful and thoughtful deliberation, I have made a decision to endorse Barack Obama for President.

We are blessed to have two great American leaders and great Democrats running for President. My affection and admiration for Hillary Clinton and President Bill Clinton will never waver. It is time, however, for Democrats to stop fighting amongst ourselves and to prepare for the tough fight we will face against John McCain in the fall. The 1990's were a decade of peace and prosperity because of the competent and enlightened leadership of the Clinton administration, but it is now time for a new generation of leadership to lead America forward. Barack Obama will be a historic and a great President, who can bring us the change we so desperately need by bringing us together as a nation here at home and with our allies abroad.

Earlier this week, Senator Barack Obama gave an historic speech. that addressed the issue of race with the eloquence, sincerity, and optimism we have come to expect of him. He inspired us by reminding us of the awesome potential residing in our own responsibility. He asked us to rise above our racially divided past, and to seize the opportunity to carry forward the work of many patriots of all races, who struggled and died to bring us together.

As a Hispanic, I was particularly touched by his words. I have been troubled by the demonization of immigrants--specifically Hispanics-- by too many in this country. Hate crimes against Hispanics are rising as a direct result and now, in tough economic times, people look for scapegoats and I fear that people will continue to exploit our racial differences--and place blame on others not like them . We all know the real culprit -- the disastrous economic policies of the Bush Administration!

Senator Obama has started a discussion in this country long overdue and rejects the politics of pitting race against race. He understands clearly that only by bringing people together, only by bridging our differences can we all succeed together as Americans.

His words are those of a courageous, thoughtful and inspiring leader, who understands that a house divided against itself cannot stand. And, after nearly eight years of George W. Bush, we desperately need such a leader.

To reverse the disastrous policies of the last seven years, rebuild our economy, address the housing and mortgage crisis, bring our troops home from Iraq and restore America's international standing, we need a President who can bring us together as a nation so we can confront our urgent challenges at home and abroad.

During the past year, I got to know Senator Obama as we campaigned against each other for the Presidency, and I felt a kinship with him because we both grew up between words, in a sense, living both abroad and here in America. In part because of these experiences, Barack and I share a deep sense of our nation's special responsibilities in the world.

So, once again, thank you for all you have done for me and my campaign. I wanted to make sure you understood my reasons for my endorsement of Senator Obama. I know that you, no matter what your choice, will do so with the best interests of this nation, in your heart.

Sincerely,

Bill Richardson
 

gcubed

Member
woeds said:
Has Hillary ever mentioned the people who stayed home in Michigan and Florida because they thought their vote wouldn't count? That's what bothers me every time she talks about honoring the Michigan and Florida results; the fact that a lot of people didn't vote.

Why bog yourself down with details when its easier to ignore that fact
 

Triumph

Banned
woeds said:
Has Hillary ever mentioned the people who stayed home in Michigan and Florida because they thought their vote wouldn't count? That's what bothers me every time she talks about honoring the Michigan and Florida results; the fact that a lot of people didn't vote.
Of all the states that have had their primaries so far, only two have had greater turnout on the Republican side. Guess which ones!
 
GhaleonEB said:
That's the one I watched last night. My reaction was essentially, "God damn the media." For that quote at least, in context, it makes perfect sense.

Great news about the Richardson endorsement.
Do you have a link to both full sermons?
 

cjdunn

Member
woeds said:
Has Hillary ever mentioned the people who stayed home in Michigan and Florida because they thought their vote wouldn't count? That's what bothers me every time she talks about honoring the Michigan and Florida results; the fact that a lot of people didn't vote.

That NPR interview with her was the most infuriating thing I've heard from her so far.

Hillary Clinton says the results of Michigan's Democratic presidential primary should count, even if Barack Obama's name did not appear on the ballot.

"That was his choice," she says in an interview with Steve Inskeep. "There was no rule or requirement that he take his name off the ballot. His supporters ran a very aggressive campaign to try to get people to vote uncommitted."

The states of Florida and Michigan were stripped of their delegates when they defied the rules of the national Democratic Party and moved up the date of their primaries. Clinton remained on the ballot in both states, while Obama stayed on only the Florida ballot.

Neither candidate was supposed to campaign, in accordance with the Democratic National Party's wishes.

In it she essentially says that it was Obama's choice not to campaign. She had this blasé, no-crying-over-spilt-milk tone. Grrr.
 
VanMardigan said:
Yeah, it's amazing to see former Clinton loyalists jumping ship. You just KNOW they'd love to endorse Hillary, but it's obvious something is wrong and there must be incredibly compelling reasons for them to move against their more familiar option. It would worry me if I were a Clinton supporter. What do they know about Hillary or about Obama that would push them to make that leap against their personal connections? You think Clinton saw the superbowl at Richardson's place just for kicks?

It's not amazing -- the math simply isn't there. You can be sure that if Clinton were ahead by 150 delegates the Clinton loyalists would definitely not be jumping ship.
 

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
The dem leaders need to start stepping up like Richardson did if they want to retain their shot at taking the White House. It's not even April- can anyone seriously imagine another 3-4 months of this while McCain just raises money and plays President-to-be abroad?
 
Deus Ex Machina said:
Wait... that's not a bad idea. He would pick up the Latino vote in the general election with him. This is one of Hillary's arguments.

I'm not sure if the country is ready for two minorities on the same ticket but surprise me please America.
 

Cheebs

Member
schuelma said:
The dem leaders need to start stepping up like Richardson did if they want to retain their shot at taking the White House. It's not even April- can anyone seriously imagine another 3-4 months of this while McCain just raises money and plays President-to-be abroad?
Gore and Pelosi won't. They are saving themselves in case they are needed to stop it at the convention. Most likely Carter too. Those are the only 3 names that could "step up" and end this.

But if she drags it to the convention the image of the Former Vice President, Former President, and Speaker of the House telling Clinton its over will end it.
 

RubxQub

φίλω ἐξεχέγλουτον καί ψευδολόγον οὖκ εἰπόν
maximum360 said:
I'm not sure if the country is ready for two minorities on the same ticket but surprise me please America.
Think about how epic of a campaign ticket that would be...

Put Richardson in charge of the advertising, and Obama in charge of the public speaking.

It would be too much awesome to handle that Republicans would explode, leaving a confetti of dollar bills in their wake.
 
maximum360 said:
I'm not sure if the country is ready for two minorities on the same ticket but surprise me please America.
It was said America wasn't ready for a White Woman and a African American sharing the same Office... Vice and President. But now its the dream ticket.
 
Great editorial up at the washington post,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/20/AR2008032003021.html

Let's ask the hard question about the Rev. Jeremiah Wright: Is he as far outside the African American mainstream as many of us would like to think?

Because Barack Obama's speech on race in America was so candid about both the legitimacy of black and white grievances -- and the flaws in those grievances -- it carried the risk of offending almost everyone.

A man who, by parentage, is half black and half white took it upon himself to explain each side's story to the other. Obama resembled no one so much as the conciliatory sibling in a large and boisterous family, shouting: "Please, please, will you listen to each other for a sec?"

One of the least remarked upon passages in Obama's speech is also one of the most important -- and the part most relevant to the Wright controversy. There is, Obama said, a powerful anger in the black community rooted in "memories of humiliation and doubt" that "may not get expressed in public, in front of white co-workers or white friends" but "does find voice in the barbershop or the beauty shop or around the kitchen table. . . . And occasionally it finds voice in the church on Sunday morning, in the pulpit and in the pews."

Yes, black people say things about our country and its injustices to each other that they don't say to those of us who are white. Whites also say things about blacks privately that they don't say in front of their black friends and associates.

One black leader who was capable of getting very angry indeed is the one now being invoked against Wright. His name was Martin Luther King Jr.

An important book on King's rhetoric by Barnard College professor Jonathan Rieder, due out next month, offers a more complex view of King than the sanitized version that is so popular, especially among conservative commentators. In "The Word of the Lord Is Upon Me," Rieder -- an admirer of King -- notes that the civil rights icon was "not just a crossover artist but a code switcher who switched in and out of idioms as he moved between black and white audiences."

Listen to what King said about the Vietnam War at his own Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta on Feb. 4, 1968: "God didn't call America to engage in a senseless, unjust war. . . . And we are criminals in that war. We've committed more war crimes almost than any nation in the world, and I'm going to continue to say it. And we won't stop it because of our pride and our arrogance as a nation. But God has a way of even putting nations in their place." King then predicted this response from the Almighty: "And if you don't stop your reckless course, I'll rise up and break the backbone of your power."

If today's technology had existed then, I would imagine the media playing quotations of that sort over and over. Right-wing commentators would use the material to argue that King was anti-American and to discredit his call for racial and class justice. King certainly angered a lot of people at the time.

I cite King not to justify Wright's damnation of America or his lunatic and pernicious theories but to suggest that Obama's pastor and his church are not as far outside the African American mainstream as many would suggest. I would also ask my conservative friends who praise King so lavishly to search their consciences and wonder if they would have stood up for him in 1968.

These are realities that Obama has forced us to confront, and they are painful. Wright was operating within a long tradition of African American outrage, which is one reason Obama could not walk away from his old pastor in the name of political survival. Obama's personal closeness to Wright would have made such a move craven in any event.

I'm a liberal, and I loathe the anti-American things Wright said precisely because I believe that the genius of our country is its capacity for self-correction. Progressivism and, yes, hope itself depend on a belief that personal conversion and social change are possible, that flawed human beings are capable of transcending their pasts and their failings.

Obama understands the anger of whites as well as the anger of blacks, but he's placed a bet on the other side of King's legacy that converted rage into the search for a beloved community. This does not prove that Obama deserves to be president. It does mean that he deserves to be judged on his own terms and not by the ravings of an angry preacher.
 

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
Cheebs said:
Gore and Pelosi won't. They are saving themselves in case they are needed to stop it at the convention. Most likely Carter too. Those are the only 3 names that could "step up" and end this.

But if she drags it to the convention the image of the Former Vice President, Former President, and Speaker of the House telling Clinton its over will end it.

I guess my point is that the odds seem good that its going to the convention anyways- why not try and end it now?
 

Farmboy

Member
Cheebs said:
Nor do I. I think he is one of the Obama big 3 that will wait till the end just to be able to put pressure on Hillary. Though I still believe if any of those 3 would crack and come out publicly it'd be him. But I think Obama's team would almost prefer for him to act as a broker at the convention if necessary.

There's also Dean. He's definitely in the Obama-camp -- they're both proponents of a bottom-up approach to campaigning and support a 50-state-strategy, to name two things, and he's been a hardliner on not counting MI and FL from the start -- but must remain neutral. He and Pelosi simply can't endorse, but it's obvious where their allegiances lie. Which makes me a little less worried about the outcome of a possible convention fight.

I think Gore and Carter could endorse, but won't. I'm not sure what I'd prefer, or if it really matters if they endorse now or step in later. A Gore endorsement, especially, could help him enough in the actual elections to make 'men in suits stepping in' unnecessary.
 

tanod

when is my burrito
VanMardigan said:
Yeah, it's amazing to see former Clinton loyalists jumping ship. You just KNOW they'd love to endorse Hillary, but it's obvious something is wrong and there must be incredibly compelling reasons for them to move against their more familiar option. It would worry me if I were a Clinton supporter. What do they know about Hillary or about Obama that would push them to make that leap against their personal connections? You think Clinton saw the superbowl at Richardson's place just for kicks?

Chuck Todd from MSNBC reported that the Democratic party lost house seats, senate seats and governorships in every election year during Bill's presidency.

The only reason people would support Clinton is because:
a)They want a job in her administration (which obviously isn't going to happen now) or;
b)They're afraid of them.
 
schuelma said:
I guess my point is that the odds seem good that its going to the convention anyways- why not try and end it now?

The problem is that Hillary and/or her supporters may try to paint the picture that the nomination is being "stolen" from her. Ofcourse the numbers paint a different picture but painted reality by the media (who want to keep this going as long as possible) and the spin-masters in Hillary's camp have done their best to maintain the public perception that this is a neck and neck race (except for Chuck Todd). If words gets around that Hillary was somehow forced out it would worry democrats to no end because the white women vote could turn to McCain or they would just not vote.
 

Cheebs

Member
I can partially understand how Hillary feels.

Just think, ever since 1998 the entire media, political system, & your friends and family have been convinced and convinced you you'll be president. By the time you announce in 2007 you are 100% convinced you'll be president. Having that 10 year expectation "taken" from you has to hurt, badly. Any normal person would act irrationally in that situation as well.
 
maximum360 said:
The problem is that Hillary and/or her supporters may try to paint the picture that the nomination is being "stolen" from her. Ofcourse the numbers paint a different picture but painted reality by the media (who want to keep this going as long as possible) and the spin-masters in Hillary's camp have done their best to maintain the public perception that this is a neck and neck race (except for Chuck Todd). If words gets around that Hillary was somehow forced out it would worry democrats to no end because the white women vote could turn to McCain or they would just not vote.

"Try and end it now" precludes getting Hilary to cede defeat.

Anyways, anyone got the link to the other Wright sermons? I've only see the "Chickens come home to roost" sermon, and was actually genuinely impressed with the sermon more than anything to do with the controversy. The fact that the media is running a clip completely out of context of him quoting a commentator on Fox News is just too fucking bizarre to comprehend.
 
Smiles and Cries said:
Condi Rice was on a CNN feed about Obama Passport, what she had to say I missed it?

I heard that she issued a public apology to Obama about the breaches. Also, I'm really psyched to have Richardson on board. I think he adds to the image of real, clean politics and getting the job done. Also, that's another superdelegate. I think it's about donation time again.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
typhonsentra said:
I can't believe how the media so willfully took that out of context. The only thing I can think of is that they never saw the full clips themselves.

Which would be a problem right? Shouldn't they have taken 15 minutes and watched what you just looked at?
 

Triumph

Banned
Listen to what King said about the Vietnam War at his own Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta on Feb. 4, 1968: "God didn't call America to engage in a senseless, unjust war. . . . And we are criminals in that war. We've committed more war crimes almost than any nation in the world, and I'm going to continue to say it. And we won't stop it because of our pride and our arrogance as a nation. But God has a way of even putting nations in their place." King then predicted this response from the Almighty: "And if you don't stop your reckless course, I'll rise up and break the backbone of your power."

mlkfox.jpg
 
maximum360 said:
The problem is that Hillary and/or her supporters may try to paint the picture that the nomination is being "stolen" from her.
True.

She feels that its her turn and Obama is cutting in line. I didn't know we voted for people on a turn bases...
 
ToyMachine228 said:
I heard that she issued a public apology to Obama about the breaches. Also, I'm really psyched to have Richardson on board. I think he adds to the image of real, clean politics and getting the job done. Also, that's another superdelegate. I think it's about donation time again.

yeah they just played it again in the feed.

Richardson speech on live feed coming in a few minutes
 

harSon

Banned
Kind of funny how Obama's biggest critics (regarding the Wright situation) are blatant bigots themselves. Pat and Bay Buchanan? Really? They have no right to be appalled by anything anti semitic or racist :lol
 

Triumph

Banned
schuelma said:
I guess my point is that the odds seem good that its going to the convention anyways- why not try and end it now?
I doubt it'll go to the convention. I would imagine that by the end of the primaries, Obama will have enough delegates and supers to be the nominee. I bet that in early June Gore, Pelosi, Carter (if he hasn't already) will step up to endorse Obama and end this.
 

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
The passport thing will really help Obama, at least short term. Nothing like a good ole right wing conspiracy to change the subject.
 

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
Triumph said:
I doubt it'll go to the convention. I would imagine that by the end of the primaries, Obama will have enough delegates and supers to be the nominee. I bet that in early June Gore, Pelosi, Carter (if he hasn't already) will step up to endorse Obama and end this.


Ok but that is still too long- June? Both candidates are going to be completely battered and bruised by then.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom