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PoliGAF Interim Thread of Tears/Lapel Pins (ScratchingHisCheek-Gate)
- Thread starter Rur0ni
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User 10639
Member
Hey, I said being related to Truman was "pretty sweet." If it weren't for that whole, y'know, atomic bombing of two cities with large civilian populations thing, I'd have few reservations about calling him one of the best presidents (most scholars do.) It was a joke, anyway...
And I have to agree with PD; dismissing MacArthur was totally justified. Plus:
And I have to agree with PD; dismissing MacArthur was totally justified. Plus:
:lolHarry Truman said:
PhoenixDark said:
China had it coming. They were going buck wild in the early fifties. They should of been taught a lesson. They got away with invading Tibet, and then we gave them another free pass when it came to Korea. Millions of North Koreans have starved to death and tens of thousands tortured under its tyrannical regime because of Truman's decision.
LBJ is not as tainted as much by Vietnam today as much as he was in say, the 1970's.PhoenixDark said:
Clinton called him one of her favorite presidents in Time Magazine last year and I have heard Obama on the trail heap praise on LBJ (as did Hillary, controversially however in NH).
Dems seemed to do their best to separate Vietnam LBJ from Domestic LBJ in recent decades and treat domestic LBJ as a democratic icon.
XxenobladerxX
Member
Holy shit Harry Truman was awesome.icarus-daedelus said:
Truman was a badass. As both a politican and as a leader.
The bombing in Japan was horribly depressing and did indeed murder endless innocent lives. But it HAD to be done. Japan needed to be shaken drastically for them to give up the fight. Truman, as a strong leader did the right thing even though it was a dangerous thing.
As a politician he was soooo awesome. In 1948 the republican candidate dewey listed off all the great things that would get done when he is president with the republican congress currently in power.
What did Truman do? He took Dewey's campaign promises and told the republican congress to pass the plans, that he'd sign them. The republican congress freaked out and was unable to pass a single one of Dewey's promises so Truman was able to go around and call the republicans "do-nothings".
So awesome.
Don't fuck with Truman:
The bombing in Japan was horribly depressing and did indeed murder endless innocent lives. But it HAD to be done. Japan needed to be shaken drastically for them to give up the fight. Truman, as a strong leader did the right thing even though it was a dangerous thing.
As a politician he was soooo awesome. In 1948 the republican candidate dewey listed off all the great things that would get done when he is president with the republican congress currently in power.
What did Truman do? He took Dewey's campaign promises and told the republican congress to pass the plans, that he'd sign them. The republican congress freaked out and was unable to pass a single one of Dewey's promises so Truman was able to go around and call the republicans "do-nothings".
So awesome.
Don't fuck with Truman:
User 10639
Member
Well, domestically LBJ was a democratic icon, so I can see why they would attempt such parsing, but it's impossible to truly separate that from his Vietnam record. Do you have a link to that article, btw?
KRS7 said:
Macarthur was a twit.
icarus-daedelus said:
*insert standard atomic bombing debate here*
Love that quote about Macarthur though.
KRS7 said:
That's preferable to risking WWIII. You would have been one of the generals hounding JFK to bomb Cuba during the missile crisis, wouldn't you?
PhoenixDark
Banned
KRS7 said:
The problem is that while China did indeed deserve an ass kicking (and still does), it just wasn't possible. MacArther wanted us to engage China while we were still fighting WWII, which made no sense. Also people forget that China actually gave us a pretty ugly defeat in 1950 shortly after US troops crossed the 38th parallel, which caused the largest US military retreat in history. A war with China might have also led to war with Russia
No. I read it in Time in early 2007. She claimed she wanted her presidency (back when she was the undisputed front runner) to be more like Johnson's than her husbands when it came to domestic policy. And that she said in terms of domestic policy LBJ was her favorite ever president.icarus-daedelus said:
Something I dont think people will ever realize is Truman really really REALLY helped us avoid World War III.PhoenixDark said:
He helped keep the newly born cold war from all-out war. But its hard for history to remember something you didn't do , rather than something you did do.
User 10639
Member
Yeah, that was probably a stupid can of worms to open. :lolBoogie said:
Interesting. I'd be curious to know who the other candidates would pick as their favorites.Cheebs said:
Probably why he ranks so highly amongst polls/surveys of historians. Also, I remember there being a Newsweek cover story last year about "the search for the next Truman" or something like that, and they talked about how his image has improved significantly over the years.Cheebs said:
As I suspected, Hilldog bringing up Wright is backfiring among superdelegates:
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/26/820834.aspx
At a time when Sen. Hillary Clinton is increasingly relying on superdelegates to vault her to the Democratic Party's nomination, a handful of undecided and pledged superdelegates are coming forward to say her campaign's tactics in recent weeks are doing more harm than good.
The Democratic Party insiders say they believe Clinton's direct attacks against Sen. Barack Obama in recent days are hurting the party and its chances in November, and also say it is showing a calculated, desperate-to-win side of Clinton that they dislike.
"In looking at the manner in which the candidates are campaigning, I think it would be best they focused their attention on the presumptive nominee and showed our party which one is better in campaigning against McCain," said Garry Shay, a California superdelegate, who announced his support for Clinton.
Unlike some in the party, these superdelegates said they do not believe Clinton should drop out of the race. They said they are committed to the democratic process, and want to allow the states still remaining to cast their ballots. But they acknowledged Obama is the likely nominee and suggested the personal attacks were only hurting the party and its viability.
The Clinton campaign has been actively wooing these delegates, believing a plurality represents the strongest, and increasingly the only, way for her to win the nomination. But one undeclared delegate, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said the recent tactics are turning her and other superdelegates off.
"I don't think anybody's saying 'step aside,' but 'stop with the garbage' is what people want to say," the delegate said. "Just chill a little bit."
As activists committed to the party, they said, they have been impressed by Obama's ability to bring new Democrats into the fold, and they worry that Clinton is threatening that.
"We like the fact that there is a candidate that has won so many states overwhelmingly," the delegate said. "We're feeling her advisors are leading her in a path that diminishes her as well as him."
Several said they were angered by comments from James Carville, who called Bill Richardson "Judas" for backing Obama after serving in the Clinton White House. One delegate said Richardson's rationale for supporting Obama, and his implicit frustration at the Clintons' heavy-handed approach to garnering his support, was echoed among superdelegates.
Others said they were frustrated by recent reports that Clinton embellished her description of landing in Bosnia as First Lady, and said it suggested she would do anything to win. "I don't remember what movie I saw two weeks ago; I don't necessarily remember what I had for dinner last night," one superdelegate said. "But I would remember having to duck and run from sniper fire."
The final straw, though, were Clinton's comments Tuesday, when she said the Rev. Jeremiah Wright "would not have been my pastor." Several superdelegates saw it as a direct, personal attack on Obama.
"I think it's very dangerous for any candidate to constantly thrum on what they perceive as sensational criticisms of their opponent," said Debra Kozikowski, an uncommitted superdelegate from Massachusetts. "I would be more likely to respond positively to discussions of issues that effect Americans versus what might be perceived as character flaws."
Clinton campaign officials said Clinton's comments were a direct response to a question she received at an editorial board meeting and suggested personal attacks have gone in both directions in the primary race.
The party activists said they have been receiving calls from members, a majority of whom want them to support whoever has won the popular vote. Many superdelegates are themselves elected by the Democratic Party and believe most will follow the will of party members for the party's future, and their own viability.
And they say they are not buying some of the Clinton campaign's explanations as to why they should support her, whether it is her victories in large states, primary states or those likely to go Democratic in the November election.
"Periodically, over the last couple of weeks, you will see a news story or get something from the campaign, and you'll go, 'How stupid do you think I am?" one uncommitted superdelegate said. "All of us watch television all the time, read the newspapers. We all play with the little charts online too. We know it is virtually impossible."
One delegate said the Clinton campaign is "using Jeremiah Wright to scare white people."
"A full and fair debate about issues and differences and even fights is good," the delegate said. "Mud slinging, personal attacks and lying is never good for any political fight or party. And I see a lot of that coming from one side more than the other."
The delegates said there is little the party or its leaders can do to prevent the current back and forth. But some said they were increasingly in touch with Clinton campaign officials to say their support is in jeopardy.
"Uncommitted delegates can come out and say, 'If you don't stop this now, we won't vote for you,'" one uncommitted superdelegate said.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/26/820834.aspx
At a time when Sen. Hillary Clinton is increasingly relying on superdelegates to vault her to the Democratic Party's nomination, a handful of undecided and pledged superdelegates are coming forward to say her campaign's tactics in recent weeks are doing more harm than good.
The Democratic Party insiders say they believe Clinton's direct attacks against Sen. Barack Obama in recent days are hurting the party and its chances in November, and also say it is showing a calculated, desperate-to-win side of Clinton that they dislike.
"In looking at the manner in which the candidates are campaigning, I think it would be best they focused their attention on the presumptive nominee and showed our party which one is better in campaigning against McCain," said Garry Shay, a California superdelegate, who announced his support for Clinton.
Unlike some in the party, these superdelegates said they do not believe Clinton should drop out of the race. They said they are committed to the democratic process, and want to allow the states still remaining to cast their ballots. But they acknowledged Obama is the likely nominee and suggested the personal attacks were only hurting the party and its viability.
The Clinton campaign has been actively wooing these delegates, believing a plurality represents the strongest, and increasingly the only, way for her to win the nomination. But one undeclared delegate, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said the recent tactics are turning her and other superdelegates off.
"I don't think anybody's saying 'step aside,' but 'stop with the garbage' is what people want to say," the delegate said. "Just chill a little bit."
As activists committed to the party, they said, they have been impressed by Obama's ability to bring new Democrats into the fold, and they worry that Clinton is threatening that.
"We like the fact that there is a candidate that has won so many states overwhelmingly," the delegate said. "We're feeling her advisors are leading her in a path that diminishes her as well as him."
Several said they were angered by comments from James Carville, who called Bill Richardson "Judas" for backing Obama after serving in the Clinton White House. One delegate said Richardson's rationale for supporting Obama, and his implicit frustration at the Clintons' heavy-handed approach to garnering his support, was echoed among superdelegates.
Others said they were frustrated by recent reports that Clinton embellished her description of landing in Bosnia as First Lady, and said it suggested she would do anything to win. "I don't remember what movie I saw two weeks ago; I don't necessarily remember what I had for dinner last night," one superdelegate said. "But I would remember having to duck and run from sniper fire."
The final straw, though, were Clinton's comments Tuesday, when she said the Rev. Jeremiah Wright "would not have been my pastor." Several superdelegates saw it as a direct, personal attack on Obama.
"I think it's very dangerous for any candidate to constantly thrum on what they perceive as sensational criticisms of their opponent," said Debra Kozikowski, an uncommitted superdelegate from Massachusetts. "I would be more likely to respond positively to discussions of issues that effect Americans versus what might be perceived as character flaws."
Clinton campaign officials said Clinton's comments were a direct response to a question she received at an editorial board meeting and suggested personal attacks have gone in both directions in the primary race.
The party activists said they have been receiving calls from members, a majority of whom want them to support whoever has won the popular vote. Many superdelegates are themselves elected by the Democratic Party and believe most will follow the will of party members for the party's future, and their own viability.
And they say they are not buying some of the Clinton campaign's explanations as to why they should support her, whether it is her victories in large states, primary states or those likely to go Democratic in the November election.
"Periodically, over the last couple of weeks, you will see a news story or get something from the campaign, and you'll go, 'How stupid do you think I am?" one uncommitted superdelegate said. "All of us watch television all the time, read the newspapers. We all play with the little charts online too. We know it is virtually impossible."
One delegate said the Clinton campaign is "using Jeremiah Wright to scare white people."
"A full and fair debate about issues and differences and even fights is good," the delegate said. "Mud slinging, personal attacks and lying is never good for any political fight or party. And I see a lot of that coming from one side more than the other."
The delegates said there is little the party or its leaders can do to prevent the current back and forth. But some said they were increasingly in touch with Clinton campaign officials to say their support is in jeopardy.
"Uncommitted delegates can come out and say, 'If you don't stop this now, we won't vote for you,'" one uncommitted superdelegate said.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/26/clinton.delegates/index.html
I love the blatant hypocrisy about not wanting to disenfranchise voters. On one had, she says she wont drop out because it would disenfranchise voters in the remaining states, and of course she wants to let Florida and Michigan count (for no other reason than she is loosing). Yes, she is fully prepared to disenfranchise all the voters who voted for Obama, overturning the popular vote and delegate count.
At this point, if the democratic party isn't going to shut Hillary down, they deserve to loose in November. The Democrats after all have a real skill at loosing what should be a sure thing.
We really should just start the thread now about if McCain will win re-election in 2012.
I love the blatant hypocrisy about not wanting to disenfranchise voters. On one had, she says she wont drop out because it would disenfranchise voters in the remaining states, and of course she wants to let Florida and Michigan count (for no other reason than she is loosing). Yes, she is fully prepared to disenfranchise all the voters who voted for Obama, overturning the popular vote and delegate count.
At this point, if the democratic party isn't going to shut Hillary down, they deserve to loose in November. The Democrats after all have a real skill at loosing what should be a sure thing.
We really should just start the thread now about if McCain will win re-election in 2012.
topsyturvy
Member
So a 2008 hillary clinton nomination victory will resort to the equivalent of the 1968 riots????harSon said:
Just, NO, dream more.
PhoenixDark
Banned
topsyturvy said:
Nothing is comparable to 1968 in my estimates, unless of course a draft is instituted and Obama is assassinated. 68 was a melting pot filled with dynamite - there's some dynamite out there today but I doubt we'll see massive chaos. Instead I'd imagine the democratic party would silently be destroyed when blacks and young people turn their backs on them in November.
Surely you at least agree that if its perceived that the election was stolen from Obama many (and I mean MANY MANY) blacks and young people will leave the party?
Deus Ex Machina
Member
AmishNazi said:
that youtube video is ownage.
KilledByBill
Member
DrForester said:
As awful as it may be, and the Clinton campaign's tactics have been making me more and more disgusted by the day, if Obama is as strong a candidate as supporters like myself believe him to be then he's got to overcome it. Better that he take Hillary's best shot now, more than half a year before the general election, and overcome it than to face a Republican attack machine "vetting" him just weeks before voters have to make a final decision.
McCain's numbers are artificially good right now because the media is totally focused on the Dems protracted primary. Once he has to go toe-to-toe with Obama and people are reminded that he is running on the legacy of one of the least popular presidents of all time, that he brings nothing to the table regarding a deteriorating economy, and that he is completely out of touch on Iraq, even though he was just there, he will wilt.
For now Obama just has to endure and keeping talking about the real issues, while Clinton reveals her true colors to the super delegates. The polls show he's doing fine, even after what was easily the most challenging week for him in this race.
User 10639
Member
Yup. Didn't do some of his successors much good, though.Triumph said:
Wiki (sourced) said:
topsyturvy
Member
Yes, thats a possibility. I stated that numerous times here on this very board. But like i said, pending a nationwide boycott i can't imagine african americans not voting democrat. Young people on the other hand isn't exactly Hillary's strong point. :/PhoenixDark said:
I like how that one guy said maybe he needs a job. :lolscorcho said:
you know, if i could get away with half of the stuff you say to posters i'll be happy. You're personally attacking other posters because their views are different then yours. How is calling someone an idiot, a moron, and a melon headed retard not among the TOS agreement?Triumph said:
Tell me, how do you not get banned?
topsyturvy
Member
I wasn't disputing anything but the riots. so whatever.Triumph said:
I don't get the outrage here either, but it just might be his edge or something. It might just be an educational thing. :/ari said:
Either way, he's completely over his head.
just got back from my pre convention meeting with my precinct here in bexar county in which the county democratic chair attended and it looks as though i have a veerrry good shot of being a state delegate. our group of 11 obama delegates have already decided on who we're selecting to be our state delegate and from that, i have a great shot at being the at large.
for those interested in going to the national convention -- costs are upwards of $5,000 for the week and i was told if you think you're going to be selected, start making reservations now.
for those interested in going to the national convention -- costs are upwards of $5,000 for the week and i was told if you think you're going to be selected, start making reservations now.
topsyturvy
Member
harSon said:
How about giving an actual response?
topsyturvy
Member
topsyturvy
Member
So that should give him credentials to personally insult me or any other gaffer that disagree with him?gkrykewy said:
XxenobladerxX
Member
I want some watermelon now
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Yeah Incognito, every state that goes by, her situation gets worse. At this point it is pretty much over, I don't know exactly when it ended, that debate will continue on for awhile.
The democratic party leaders need to step up and end this sooner rather then later. If Hillary goes batshit insane (and, based on what we have seen so far, that is entirely possible) we need the party leaders to step up and end it with whatever means they have available.
The democratic party leaders need to step up and end this sooner rather then later. If Hillary goes batshit insane (and, based on what we have seen so far, that is entirely possible) we need the party leaders to step up and end it with whatever means they have available.
Revisionist history ahoy!topsyturvy said:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10369023&postcount=2955
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10369380&postcount=2983
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10369629&postcount=2998
You're an idiot. You just tried to say the only thing you were disputing was the riots claim, but there's three posts proving otherwise. Here's a pro-tip to you and everyone else out there with their panties in a bunch over me calling you names: quit earning it and I'll quit doing it.
topsyturvy
Member
So since we don't see eye to eye about a shitty prediction and i don't agree with you. I'm an idiotic, moronic, melon headed retard? Gotcha, so that makes you a complete genius for picking the opposite. right.Triumph said:
For any mod or any one that is taking this for any consideration. Those posts was made before me and triumph got into a heated argument. Page 60-61.Triumph said:
Apparently I was agreeing with you apart from the riots.
User 10639
Member
The Nader Team is the right team all of a sudden? Wow, I must have missed something.topsyturvy said:
artredis1980
Banned
Federal Judge: Michigan Primary was unconstitutional
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080326/METRO/803260443/1361
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080326/METRO/803260443/1361
PhoenixDark
Banned
ari said:
Triumph is a awesome, even when I disagree with him. That can't be said of the vast majority of people who name call/get banned here
User 10639
Member
You must be like an abused puppy that always comes back to its master because, as far as I can tell, he totally hates you. :lolPhoenixDark said:
topsyturvy said:
So, now that we all know that Clinton's Bosnia comments were an outright lie, I'd like to know your comments and reaction to this. You and other conveniently sling mud then conveniently choose to ignore the whole issue and jump on some other random topic when the facts come out. Why are you supporting a candidate who is so easily willing to exaggerate, embellish, and outright lie to impress people, and what does that say about her character?
U.S. District Judge Nancy Edmunds agreed with the American Civil Liberties Union, arguing on behalf of several small political parties, that the law's provision giving the list of voters' partisan preference only to the Democratic and Republican parties violated the rights of other parties.artredis1980 said:
Yeah, he wasn't talking about the primary at all... but rather the practice of giving the voters' contact info to the parties.
Obviously you weren't, as you can see from your posts. You point blank stated that black people would come around after Hillary stole the nomination. I disputed that and you kept insisting your view was the correct one... for fucks sakes why do you think you got called a melon headed retard? Because I thought there would be guaranteed riots? GTFO with that shit.topsyturvy said:
Spin and spin, little Hillary supporter. You're full of shit, and yes, you're a fucking idiot.
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