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PoliGAF Interim Thread of Tears/Lapel Pins (ScratchingHisCheek-Gate)
- Thread starter Rur0ni
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mckmas8808 said:
"If wishes were horses then beggars would ride."
Sorry that you have angst about a tough decision made in wartime, but tough shit.
Truman didn't have the luxury of wishing the tough decisions of the war away, and your post basically amounts to a bunch of whining that, gee, why do people have to die in war?
"It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we should grow too fond of it" -General Robert E. Lee
polyh3dron
Banned
lol every day the same little soundbites will be breaking news once again on CNN.quest said:
maximum360
Member
I just saw the last few minutes of a Chuck Hagel interview on CNN. His position on the war, US foreign policy, etc. seems to mirror Obama almost entirely. Interesting...
PhoenixDark
Banned
http://dyn.politico.com/playbook/
Article on "McCain-Democrats"
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9229.html
Interesting
Bloomberg speaking now
http://www.cnn.com/video/live/live.html?stream=stream2
As expected, not endorsing
http://www.cnn.com/video/live/live.html?stream=stream2
As expected, not endorsing
PhoenixDark
Banned
syllogism said:
It's interesting because if the trend continues the democrats will lose the election. I'm surprised any real democrat would be willing to lose the White House again, even if they aren't particularly impressed with Obama or Clinton
Stooge: I agree, but I can't help but think that if these so called independents and moderates went through 8 years thinking McCain was still "2000 Maverick McCain", nothing will change their minds in time for November
LA times article? Should he renounce and repudiate them too?
Also, Oh no, Elton fundraiser in jeopardy?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20080327/NATION02/615066787
Also, Oh no, Elton fundraiser in jeopardy?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20080327/NATION02/615066787
PhoenixDark
Banned
:lolRubxQub said:
Nevermind her slobbing over Obama constantly on Hardball - republicant said it so it must be false!
There's still an eternity between now and November, shitburger.PhoenixDark said:
As to the Israel comments, the tone is regrettable but the simple fact is that Israel is going to have to make concessions in order to achieve peace in the Middle East. It can't all be on the Palestinians and the Lebanese. They should respect the pre 1967 borders, end of discussion. It's absurd that there's no way to have a discussion on Israel where you take that position and aren't somehow anti-semitic.
RubxQub said:
Eh. It's definitely *very* problematic. It's not reviving a story if you dig up new information on it. If two weeks after the thing erupted new things are still found I am not confident that new stuff won't keep showing up until the election.
Wright is Obama's biggest liability and might cost him the election. Plus, while the youtube statements *were* out of context, these "bulletins" are certainly in context and quite revolting.
There have been instances of bitter primaries in the dem party resulting in a sizable chunk voting for the republican. 1968, 1980, and 1984 had overly-high democratic voters voting for Republican. All 3 of those elections were considered the most bitter primaries (before 2008).Triumph said:
1980/1984 some could argue the sheer popularity of Reagan was the reason rather than bitter primaries, but that is not the case for 1968.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Triumph said:
Cheebs makes a good point
With respect to Israel I agree. It's a shame that any criticism of them is eventually labeled as anti-semitic or insensitive. But quoting Hamas is never a good idea in my estimates
RubxQub
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I don't care if Reverend Wright shot 50 white people in the face at this point.Kildace said:
Wright is not Obama. Obama is not Wright. Electing Obama does not equal electing Wright. Electing Obama does not bring with it Wright's messages. Obama will not be a different person, regardless of what Wright says. I am voting for Obama and not Wright. Wright is wrong, and Obama is right. Obama is Obama, Wright is Wright. Listening to Wright does not mean you agree with everything he says. You can say crazy shit and still be a good person. Obama is not Wright.
... I think that covers it.
RubxQub said:
I do realize that. Most americans don't. Most white americans on the fence between Obama and McCain in November will probably end up voting for McCain if new Wright hate speech keeps coming up, is everywhere on the news and is pushed by Republican adverts.
It doesn't matter that Wright isn't Obama, all that matters is that everything Wright says hurts Obama's electability. It can't be denied. I was convinced that all of this would mostly blow over by election time but new things being unearthed definitely make me doubt that.
1968 may not be the best example due to no draft, likely no riots. The outrage was so huge they'd be willing to vote for what was considered a candidate hated by dems, Nixon.
But 1980/1984 IS applicable. Since like Reagan McCain is seen as "not THAT bad" to some dems.
In 1980 many dems were pissed Kennedy lost, many voted for Reagan. In 1984, many dems were pissed Hart lost. Many voted for Reagan.
It could be coincidence but it something that should not be taken lightly.
Same thing for republicans. The hugely bitter and close election between Ford and Reagan hurt Ford badly, Chris Matthews said Ford believed if Reagan would have campaigned for him in Ohio in 76 he would have beat Carter, but Reagan was still bitter about losing.
But 1980/1984 IS applicable. Since like Reagan McCain is seen as "not THAT bad" to some dems.
In 1980 many dems were pissed Kennedy lost, many voted for Reagan. In 1984, many dems were pissed Hart lost. Many voted for Reagan.
It could be coincidence but it something that should not be taken lightly.
Same thing for republicans. The hugely bitter and close election between Ford and Reagan hurt Ford badly, Chris Matthews said Ford believed if Reagan would have campaigned for him in Ohio in 76 he would have beat Carter, but Reagan was still bitter about losing.
There was a LOT more shit going on in 1968 than there is now. Popular leaders aren't being shot left and right. There are no riots in the inner cities. Either Democratic candidate claims to want to end the war. Racial tensions are no where NEAR what they were in 1968.Cheebs said:
Now, there is one thing very similar. The candidate for the incumbent President's party is going to want to continue a very unpopular war, a war that looks to be getting more and more unpopular as time goes by. There is that.
There is one thing that WASN'T happening in 1968. And that is the economy is turning into shit, and it won't be a hard sell to paint McCain as a 3rd term of Bush's economic "policies".
Finally, this shit is NOT going to go on until August. Roughly 60% of the pledged delegates left to be won will be decided by May 6th. It's entirely possible that Obama could be within spitting distance on May 7th with the help of supers. Look for that to happen. If it doesn't, then it's only gonna be another month. Also, remember how much you two idiots think you know and how often you've been proven wrong.
WTF is wrong with the MSM? Obama was giving a brilliant insightful speech on the economy, like I've never heard before(mybe on par with his race speech)and MSNBC cut it off half way through and started talking about Rev Wright. CNN cut it off at the same time and said Obama says nothing new, we will see if Clinton says anything new later today. WTF is this shit? The speech wasn't even halfway over. Do they really think the America people are that dumb don't we don't wanna hear anything actually relevent to this election?
PhoenixDark
Banned
Kildace said:
They'll bring up Gallup polls and try to suggest this story had an effect but is now dead, which of course isn't true. Obama's negatives have increased, his support among whites has dropped, and this story is about to dominate another week of media coverage. In other words everything is fine and dandy!
Triumph: Didn't you get the memo? The Iraq war is gaining support
I agree, 68 was 1000x worse so yeah its hard to compare.Triumph said:
I think the comparison for republicans in 76, and 80/84 democrats can be looked at though. But like I said one could argue reagan got democrats cause they plain liked reagan or it was cause of bitter close primaries.
1968 analogy falls short in several aspects and I'd say the only common thread is the bitterness, which however is largely superficial this election cycle. Furthermore, despite being the "most party destroying campaign" of our times, in the end the democratic nominee lost by a mere 1%.
e: beaten
e: beaten
The war was gaining support because there was no reporting on it other than "surge is working!"PhoenixDark said:
Surge was not working. What was working was Moqtada al-Sadr had stuck to his ceasefire. Now the Mahdi army is trying to take over Basra and blowing up the green zone. Good luck trying to paint a rosy picture with that being the story on Iraq, dipshit.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Cheebs said:
76 eh? The republicans didn't get who they wanted this year, but then again they didn't want ANYBODY. Unlike in 76 when a very popular candidate lost in the primaries. If Obama were to somehow lose the primary LEGALLY that would be more comparable to 76, and I'd expect dem turnout to be low in November; polls may show more Hillary supporters are less likely to vote for Obama, but the polls don't take into account the fact that many blacks and young people simply won't show up unless Obama is the nomination.
PhoenixDark said:
It definitely was on life support before these bulletins showed up. I would be confident that since all these things are written and therefore don't work as soundbites / videos they won't have that much of an effect but I'm worried that these statements will keep showing up.
Moreover, these bulletins highlight something Obama had managed to deny up until now : that Wright never said anything derogatory to other races when he was present. With these bulletins it's pretty certain that Obama *did* hear these things and didn't speak up. That's very harmful.
v1cious said:
Because you mostly associate with people like you : young people, mostly left leaning who don't really care about race. This demographic won't be flipped by these statements I agree. It also sadly doesn't make up the majority of americans.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Triumph said:
Violence went down significantly for a time, and the surge did show some progress (let's be real), but you're correct over all. The future doesn't look bright, but of course just leaving won't fix anything either (especially when we have to come back the next year). It's a lose lose situation for the most part
76 would be an exact mirror of 2008 if Obama lost the nomination.PhoenixDark said:
The conservatives and party activists LOOOOOVED Reagan and were obsessed with him, while the party regulars and leaders were for Ford. And Reagan lost by less than 100 delegates in the end and the conservative activists were outraged and many voted Carter out of revenge, mostly just so they could get Reagan in 1980 (which worked).
Obama is very much a Reagan figure. Not in policy, but in style and campaign strategy. He is very much running the Reagan campaign (Reagan was about optimism and new politics. "It's Morning Again in America" and all that.)
mashoutposse
Ante Up
Kildace said:
Have you read the entire bulletins?
PhoenixDark
Banned
v1cious said:
Are you really this short sighted or is it simply a ruse? Please tell me how Obama stands a chance in November if even 20-25% of that demographic votes for McCain?
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