PoliGAF Interim Thread of USA General Elections (DAWN OF THE VEEP)

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quadriplegicjon said:
you kidding? scary black man says crazy stuff... how could you not see the connection!!!!!!
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Jackson is one of the few black people that everyone should be afraid of...the logic that man utilizes is incomprehensible.
 
I kind of wish Obama's statement had made light of it. "We accept Rev. Jackson's apology, and are relieved that Sen. Obama's nuts are safe."

Now THAT would be headline worthy. As it is, the top headline on cnn.com, msnbc.com and the New York times seems just a tad overblown. But then, any headline involving the phrase "cut his nuts off" is good for a giggle, so what the hell.

Oh MSM. Never change.
 
Goddamn Obama's got such a cute family.

:lol :lol at Blankman saying Obama was so uncomfortable during the family interview and how that shows he can't operate without a script.
 
Maybe it's just the near-lethal exposure to AM talk radio I had in the early 90s, but I'm having a hard time reading the term "MSM" in this thread and not getting a mental image of freepers bitching the media won't swear loyalty to the republican party and surrender all creative control.
 
i got worn out on the monolithic 'MSM' from an undergrad class on media activism. it was fun when i was 19, but not so much now.
 
I suppose I could just use "networks". If there's a better term for the major papers, channels and wire services that hawk out the same drivel, I'll use it.
 
jjf.jpg



my favorite is the name of their coalition
 
Tamanon said:
:lol Brad Blankman: "Jesse Jackson represents a HUGE rift in the party!"
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I don't know why Abrams puts Blankman on. On Win, Lose, or Draw, Blankman always calls anything a win for McCain and a lose for Obama.

McCain could punch a baby and Blankman would find a way to call it a win.

"Dan, McCain punching a baby shows that he still has plenty of physical stamina.available to him, so Democrats can't call him old anymore."
 
speculawyer said:
Edwards is OK with me but the fact that he can't carry his home state kinda makes it a deal-breaker. Well that and the fact that he lost once already . . . but that was more due to Kerry.
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That and his crazy story he tells everybody about his son's funeral that he always says he's never told anybody before. The guy is fucking crazy.

Plus, he has two small children and a wife with terminal cancer. I think it'd be incredibly irresponsible to take a position in the cabinet as VP or whatever.
 
Gaborn said:
Azih - Bush is behaving in the fine liberal hawk traditions of Woodrow Wilson and LBJ.
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Bush is behaving like *all* hawks. Hawk, dove or whatever else animal may represent ones foreign policy stance has nuts all to do with whether one is a liberal or not.

If you're going to use liberal as pejorative at least do so where it actually applies, like looting from the prosperous in society through taxes in order to feed orphans in drought stricken africa or something. Applying it to *hawkish* behaviour makes absolutely no sense and just diminishes the debate.
 
ZealousD said:
I don't know why Abrams puts Blankman on. On Win, Lose, or Draw, Blankman always calls anything a win for McCain and a lose for Obama.

McCain could punch a baby and Blankman would find a way to call it a win.

"Dan, McCain punching a baby shows that he still has plenty of physical stamina.available to him, so Democrats can't call him old anymore."
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The baby was a terrorist cell.
 
First off, I'm not surprised Obama's fatherhood speech touched a nerve with Jackson. I mean it wasn't that long ago that Jesse Jackson cheated on his wife and fathered an illegitimate child (probably would have saved himself some trouble by ripping his own nuts off before that happened).

Secondly, I cannot believe he could be that stupid. He's sitting in front of a camera for Fox News, and he has to start whispering about cutting Obama's nuts off?

That's the time and place he chooses? Who cares if you think the mic is off, why don't you wait until you actually take the mic off, get away from the camera (the Fox News camera) and then talk about what you want to do to Obama's nuts?
 
Azih said:
Bush is behaving like *all* hawks. Hawk, dove or whatever else animal may represent ones foreign policy stance has nuts all to do with whether one is a liberal or not.

If you're going to use liberal as pejorative at least do so where it actually applies, like looting from the prosperous in society through taxes in order to feed orphans in drought stricken africa or something. Applying it to *hawkish* behaviour makes absolutely no sense and just diminishes the debate.
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Who said "liberal" is a pejorative? I'm using it as a descriptor. I view Bush and other neoconservative politicians as deriving from Democrats, and particularly the pro war Wilsonian Democratic party that became increasingly disenchanted with the Dems and decided to split off and support the Republicans during and after Vietnam (hence the "neo" in neo-"conservative").

Specifically, I view it as a more fundamentally liberal assumption that Democracy is ever best spread through the use of force, that's more or less Wilson's entire philosophy behind his war mongering with regards to getting the US into WW1 and his logic behind his hardline stance in the Treaty of Versailles.

Is he a modern liberal on foreign policy? no, I'd say pretty clearly not. Today Democrats and liberals seem to believe in a much more passive, but engaged policy of diplomacy but reject the notion of forcing Democracy on people, instead embracing the entirely logical notion that we can provide incentives to encourage Democracy to flourish without encouraging violence.
 
Wilson was enamored with collective security and multilateral institutions. He was a big time interventionist, but it's a big reach to say Bush derives his foreign policy from that tradition.

Plus the neoconservatives don't really have anything to do with Wilson. Irving Kristol wasn't even born until 1920.
 
Mandark said:
Wilson was enamored with collective security and multilateral institutions. He was a big time interventionist, but it's a big reach to say Bush derives his foreign policy from that tradition.

Plus the neoconservatives don't really have anything to do with Wilson. Irving Kristol wasn't even born until 1920.
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Same branch of thought though, I'd say a lot of neo-conservative thought was INFLUENCED more by Wilson than most other presidents. I agree that they're not identical, but almost any school of thought is going to evolve and change over time.
 
esbern said:
jjf.jpg
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I'm starting to think that this is all orchestrated by Alexrod.

Think about it . . . . what could be better for the centrist voters in the Midwest than having Jesse Jackson compaining about Obama for being too conservative?

McCain's campaign team isn't in the same league as these pros. :D
 
Gaborn said:
Specifically, I view it as a more fundamentally liberal assumption that Democracy is ever best spread through the use of force
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Again, this is not a liberal assumption in any way shape or form either in the classical sense or the modern American usage of the term. That Wilson was an interventionist as well as a liberal does not in any way mean that interventionism and liberalism are intertwined *at all*. Interventionism to isolationism is a completely different scale from liberalism to conservatism.
 
Azih said:
Again, this is not a liberal assumption in any way shape or form either in the classical sense or the modern American usage of the term. That Wilson was an interventionist as well as a liberal does not in any way mean that interventionism and liberalism are intertwined *at all*. Interventionism to isolationism is a completely different scale from liberalism to conservatism.
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Fair enough, would you object moreso if I was to characterize Bush as a Wilsonian Republican in terms of foreign policy? I think you're being overly sensitive to my use of the word "liberal" but I'll take your point.
 
speculawyer said:
I'm starting to think that this is all orchestrated by Alexrod.

Think about it . . . . what could be better for the centrist voters in the Midwest than having Jesse Jackson compaining about Obama for being too conservative?

McCain's campaign team isn't in the same league as these pros. :D
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It did look very staged. Jesse is a horrible actor.
 
Mandark said:
I just explained how Bush isn't a Wilsonian. You keep this up and I'm gonna start assigning you texts.
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"Ok, but you will admit Bush is a liberal based on his heavy spending, right?"

cb-argh.jpg
 
This is getting really frustrating, not even worth it keeping up with it all anymore.

This may be my last post in PoliGAF in a while. Hopefully.

I've realized I'm voting for Obama not only on policy, but on personality. He's convinced me he won't completely fuck me over when he's in office. He wants to open up government to the citizenry, making it more transparent and accountable. He believes that we need to be leaders and friends with the rest of the world, not taskmasters and bullies. He wants us to do good by other and unto ourselves, not just to ourselves, by ourselves.

He's for the environment, he's for human rights, he's for diplomacy, accountability, progress. I just like the guy.

Yeah, I disagree with him on a couple of things. He's supporting FISA (except for that immunity clause). He, personally, does not agree with gay marriage (although he would support it in law). He's for corn ethanol. He's against Plan Colombia.

But he's human. I'm just tired of all this retarded sniping. Look at McCain. Now he's a huge disappointment. He used to be a fan of his, and was looking forward to them clashing on policy in the general. McCain, though, has turned it into shit. Fred said "Fuck you, Obama." I say with a hundred times more force "Fuck you, McCain" for destroying what hopes I had for a civilized match between two good men with good, positive discussions on policy. "Fuck you, McCain" for going back on all of your earlier promises and positions, from lobbyists to torture, from diplomacy to bipartisanship.

: /
 
Gaborn said:
Fair enough, would you object moreso if I was to characterize Bush as a Wilsonian Republican in terms of foreign policy? I think you're being overly sensitive to my use of the word "liberal" but I'll take your point.
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Thank you. I don't know anything about Wilson so I don't have any quibble with the other term you're using.
 
Mandark said:
Right now I'll just say that I disagree and that the data's on my side.
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I will defer to the judgment of the diplomats who have been negotiating with the Iranians for five years.

Still, Philip H. Gordon, a Europe expert at the Brookings Institution who has advised the Obama campaign, acknowledged that European officials "are uncomfortable with giving up the precondition of uranium enrichment right now." Gordon, who emphasized he was not speaking for the campaign, said the dynamic has changed in recent years, so that "after all the lies and dissembling by the Iranians, the European negotiators have become pretty hard-line" on Iran.

European officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they did not want to be seen as interfering with U.S. politics, said the demand that Iran first suspend its uranium enrichment is a European concept, not something forced on them by the Bush administration. Three European countries -- Britain, France and Germany -- persuaded Tehran to suspend its enrichment activities in 2003 while the two sides negotiated, until Iran declared in 2006 that the talks were fruitless and restarted their nuclear program.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/21/AR2008062101658.html
 
I think this Jesse Jackson situation helps obama specifically with white voters, because Obama already has the vote for black people and having Jesse Jackson spite at Obama for saying for alot of white people want to say but are afraid of saying because they are being labelled off as racist will come off well with the white folks. Another positive thing in this for Obama is that Jackson is known as a Black elitist and leftist with suspect black panther militant background, specially by white people, and him berrating Obama will only help Obama
 
so apparently, Obama now thinks it wasn't a good idea to have that interview with his kids, and won't do it anymore.

Why is Obama flip flopping on his own children? If elected, will he leave the metaphorical briefcase on the floor and trip up the American people?
 
soul creator said:
so apparently, Obama now thinks it wasn't a good idea to have that interview with his kids, and won't do it anymore.

Why is Obama flip flopping on his own children? If elected, will he leave the metaphorical briefcase on the floor and trip up the American people?
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he said he got caught up in the moment. how is that flip floping?
 
artredis1980 said:
I think this Jesse Jackson situation helps obama specifically with white voters, because Obama already has the vote for black people and having Jesse Jackson spite at Obama for saying for alot of white people want to say but are afraid of saying because they are being labeled off as racist will come off well with the white folks. Another positive thing in this for Obama is that Jackson is known as a Black elitist and leftist with suspect black panther militant background, specially by white people, and him berating Obama will only help Obama.
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If only we could raise Malcom X from the dead and have him rip into Obama. Then we'd really be set.
 
Heh....McCain's economic advisor Phil Gramm is quoted as saying "You've heard of mental depression; this is a mental recession. ... We have sort of become a nation of whiners. ...

"You just hear this constant whining, complaining about a loss of competitiveness, America in decline. ... We've never been more dominant; we've never had more natural advantages than we have today."

That shall CERTAINLY go over really well.:lol
 
Guileless said:
I will defer to the judgment of the diplomats who have been negotiating with the Iranians for five years.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/21/AR2008062101658.html
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the failure of European negotiations is emblematic of our lack of presence in it. we have no formal diplomatic relations with Tehran and, if there's a security concern driving Iran's nuclear pursuit, our absence in any diplomatic negotiation doesn't give Iran much incentive to relinquish it.
 
Tamanon said:
Heh....McCain's economic advisor Phil Gramm is quoted as saying "You've heard of mental depression; this is a mental recession. ... We have sort of become a nation of whiners. ...

"You just hear this constant whining, complaining about a loss of competitiveness, America in decline. ... We've never been more dominant; we've never had more natural advantages than we have today."

That shall CERTAINLY go over really well.:lol
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Yeah, that's not going to go over well. :lol
 
Mandark said:
I just explained how Bush isn't a Wilsonian. You keep this up and I'm gonna start assigning you texts.
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At least he hasn't yet described McKinley's desire to anglicize the Western Hemisphere as the predecessor of Wilsonian foreign policy... at least, I hope not.
 
Tamanon said:
"We've never been more dominant; we've never had more natural advantages than we have today."
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Well, I'm glad someone finally has the courage to say it. We're on a gravy train with biscuit wheels, but this country would rather manufacture things to whine about. High energy costs? High unemployment rate? Weak American dollar? Boo hoo! Get over it! If you ignore everything that's going wrong, you'll see that plenty of things are going right!

It's time to get out there and do what God intended us -- the greatest, best nation that God ever gave us on the face of the earth -- to do. And that is kick ass and take names.
 
esbern said:
the word flip-flop should be banned from politics
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agreed. i hate that reductive bull-shit.

almost as much as the word 'socialist' to describe anyone not toting the unregulated free-market mantra ;)
 
Gaborn said:
Specifically, I view it as a more fundamentally liberal assumption that Democracy is ever best spread through the use of force, that's more or less Wilson's entire philosophy behind his war mongering with regards to getting the US into WW1 and his logic behind his hardline stance in the Treaty of Versailles.
Click to expand...

:lol @ Wilson being the one with the "hardline" stance at Versailles.
 
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