haha. i didn't even see that part. if Wilson was hardline, what was the position taken by France, for instance. super-duper extra mega hardline?Boogie said::lol @ Wilson being the one with the "hardline" stance at Versailles.
haha. i didn't even see that part. if Wilson was hardline, what was the position taken by France, for instance. super-duper extra mega hardline?Boogie said::lol @ Wilson being the one with the "hardline" stance at Versailles.
Haha. I once had a friend describe the USPS to me as a socialist service that fundamentally contradicts the founders' dedication to the free enterprise of its people in favor of teh big government.scorcho said:agreed. i hate that reductive bull-shit.
almost as much as the word 'socialist' to describe anyone not toting the unregulated free-market mantra
Agence France-Presse said that it obtained the image from the Web site of Sepah News, the media arm of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards, on Wednesday. But there was no sign of it there later in the day. Today, The Associated Press distributed what appeared to be a nearly identical photo from the same source, but without the fourth missile.
As the above illustration shows, the second missile from the right appears to be the sum of two other missiles in the image. The contours of the billowing smoke match perfectly near the ground, as well in the immediate wake of the missile. Only a small black dot in the reddish area of exhaust seems to differ from the missile to its left, though there are also some slight variations.
Top, the image that Agence France-Presse obtained from Sepah News on Wednesday. Below, another image that The Associated Press received from the same source on Thursday.
GhaleonEB said:Heh. Iran just got busted releasing a shopped photo, one that ran all over the world in newspapers.
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/10/in-an-iranian-image-a-missile-too-many/index.html?hp
Tamanon said:Heh....McCain's economic advisor Phil Gramm is quoted as saying "You've heard of mental depression; this is a mental recession. ... We have sort of become a nation of whiners. ...
"You just hear this constant whining, complaining about a loss of competitiveness, America in decline. ... We've never been more dominant; we've never had more natural advantages than we have today."
That shall CERTAINLY go over really well.:lol
Providing a means to send and receive documents to and from citizens is a fundamental part of any democratic government, otherwise you're creating a one-sided government and in the founder's time such a situation was quickly labeled as tyranny.icarus-daedelus said:Haha. I once had a friend describe the USPS to me as a socialist service that fundamentally contradicts the founders' dedication to the free enterprise of its people in favor of teh big government.
Which would be kind of true, I suppose, if it weren't for the fact that providing a postal service is a specifically delegated power of Congress in the first article of the Constitution. f u ben frankling and your socialist dogma
Ok, that's it, you fail World History. Remedial courses are available at your nearest community college.Gaborn said:Specifically, I view it as a more fundamentally liberal assumption that Democracy is ever best spread through the use of force, that's more or less Wilson's entire philosophy behind his war mongering with regards to getting the US into WW1 and his logic behind his hardline stance in the Treaty of Versailles.
he's partially right in that economics falls prey to the whims and fancies of the public-at-large. if they're fraught with peril about the future and believe a recession is going to happen, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy as people make a run at the banks and hoard liquidity, or something like that.bob_arctor said::lol Is this a variation on the argument that the current disparity betwixt poor and rich really isn't so bad because the poor never had it so good?
A statement like this, missing the Medicaid vote, dissing SS. Smells like the same old shit to me.
Tamanon said:Heh....McCain's economic advisor Phil Gramm is quoted as saying "You've heard of mental depression; this is a mental recession. ... We have sort of become a nation of whiners. ...
"You just hear this constant whining, complaining about a loss of competitiveness, America in decline. ... We've never been more dominant; we've never had more natural advantages than we have today."
That shall CERTAINLY go over really well.:lol
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/07/10/1191310.aspxmckmas8808 said:No way he really said that. It doesn't make any sense. How is america full of whiners?
Will the MSM talk about this statement as being elitist and out of touch with the country.
Does he now tha almost 350,000 homes have been foreclosed on in the last 6 months.
That's up 136% from this time last year. The foreclosures are going up compared to last year. And that's when last year was seen to be really bad. What's this guy's problem?
It's the media's fault, see." 'We have sort of become a nation of whiners,' he said. 'You just hear this constant whining, complaining about a loss of competitiveness, America in decline' despite a major export boom that is the primary reason that growth continues in the economy, he said.
" 'We've never been more dominant; we've never had more natural advantages than we have today,' he said. 'We have benefited greatly' from the globalization of the economy in the last 30 years.
"Mr. Gramm said the constant drubbing of the media on the economy's problems is one reason people have lost confidence. Various surveys show that consumer confidence has fallen precipitously this year to the lowest levels in two to three decades, with most analysts attributing that to record high gasoline prices over $4 a gallon and big drops in the value of homes, which are consumers' biggest assets.
" 'Misery sells newspapers,' Mr. Gramm said. 'Thank God the economy is not as bad as you read in the newspaper every day.'"
Or, Hito, it's government monopolization of a market that requires the SCOTUS to pretend that USPS is not a government-owned corporation in order to allow Big G to dodge its own anti-trust laws.Hitokage said:Providing a means to send and receive documents to and from citizens is a fundamental part of any democratic government, otherwise you're creating a one-sided government and in the founder's time such a situation was quickly labeled as tyranny.
cjdunn said:Huh. So when Obama moves to "the Center," his numbers go down. Huh.
Everything seemingly is spinning out of control
By ALAN FRAM and EILEEN PUTMAN, Associated Press Writers Sat Jun 21, 3:14 PM ET
Is everything spinning out of control?
Midwestern levees are bursting. Polar bears are adrift. Gas prices are skyrocketing. Home values are abysmal. Air fares, college tuition and health care border on unaffordable. Wars without end rage in Iraq, Afghanistan and against terrorism.
GhaleonEB said:
These are not the gaffes you're looking for. He can go about his business. Move along.mckmas8808 said:Does that guy think his jedi mind trick will work on us?
"Lost your job? Stop whining.Tamanon said:Heh....McCain's economic advisor Phil Gramm is quoted as saying "You've heard of mental depression; this is a mental recession. ... We have sort of become a nation of whiners. ...
"You just hear this constant whining, complaining about a loss of competitiveness, America in decline. ... We've never been more dominant; we've never had more natural advantages than we have today."
That shall CERTAINLY go over really well.:lol
That's awesome. Why shoot a multi-million dollar missile to yank-the chain of oil markets when you can just release a photoshop of some missile shots?GhaleonEB said:Heh. Iran just got busted releasing a shopped photo, one that ran all over the world in newspapers.
Tamanon said:Heh....McCain's economic advisor Phil Gramm is quoted as saying "You've heard of mental depression; this is a mental recession. ... We have sort of become a nation of whiners. ...
"You just hear this constant whining, complaining about a loss of competitiveness, America in decline. ... We've never been more dominant; we've never had more natural advantages than we have today."
That shall CERTAINLY go over really well.:lol
Clearly everything IS spinning out of control . . . the terrorist fist-jab is now featured on daytime television. The end is near.Guileless said:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080621/ap_on_re_us/out_of_control
The accompanying photo for this news story is Michelle Obama fist bumping the hosts on The View. :lol WTF?
mckmas8808 said:So with record gas prices, rising food and home energy prices, falling housing market, unemployment on the rise, airplane and rental car cost going up 200%, and the stock market offically in a bear market; McCain's ECONOMIC ADVISER is saying its all a media hype and isn't happening.
WHY!? No way first read on MSNBC.com will be the only media outlet to report this right?
Does that guy think his jedi mind trick will work on us?
Hey, how about American history?Hitokage said:Ok, that's it, you fail World History. Remedial courses are available at your nearest community college.
By "mostly settled" he means in every state except for Alabama, Arkansas, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, North and South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, and West Virginia.Gaborn said:When the Loving case was decided the majority of states had struck down their anti-miscegnation laws a while ago, it had been mostly settled in many states already.
A while back it was clear he had never heard of a US War Bond.icarus-daedelus said:Hey, how about American history?
Hitokage said:A while back it was clear he had never heard of a US War Bond.
That's what happens when all you read is libertarian literature.
When the other side is "f u and the horse you rode in on, Germany" and you're not, then yes, you are "soft."Gaborn said:Oh come on, you're misrepresenting the war bond issue, I was referring to external sources of money (mainly talking about Europe) and yes, I neglected to consider internal sources of money such as bonds, people make mistakes, you're also right, Wilson wasn't particularly hard line with Germany (not that he advocated being soft on them either).
speculawyer said:The GOP economic plan . . . a high school football team pep-talk. :lol
Ignore those forclosure statistics, decline of the dollar, flatlined equity market, stagnant wages, endless budget deficits, massive trade deficits, etc. . . . its all in your mind.
Thank you Phil Gramm, I think you just decided the election.
Revolutionary war?icarus-daedelus said:Also, name me a U.S. war besides the current ones where funding was derived mainly from overseas sources.
So the first one and the last one, then?speculawyer said:Revolutionary war?
icarus-daedelus said:When the other side is "f u and the horse you rode in on, Germany" and you're not, then yes, you are "soft."
Also, name me a U.S. war besides the current ones where funding was derived mainly from overseas sources.
So you were really arguing that the US got out of the Great Depression with Lend Lease? Huh? You should have said that before, then.Gaborn said:We were arguing about whether it was WW2 that got us out of the great depression or not, I BELIEVE someone was arguing that it was our borrowing that led us get out of WW2, whereas I was suggesting it was more to do with things such as the growth of our manufacturing sector as we were selling weapons to the allies and stockpiling them.
icarus-daedelus said:So you were really arguing that the US got out of the Great Depression with Lend Lease? Huh? You should have said that before, then.
But you're still wrong, because Britain couldn't afford to buy American weapons (which is why we gave, erm, "lent" them weapons), and the Chinese had internal problems of their own like a civil war.
you say that citizens were not doing it for free one sentence and the very next sentence you don't question where the US government got the money to pay themGaborn said:Sure, but our citizens were paid good wages in those jobs, they weren't doing it for free, and there were many more jobs created as a RESULT of that. You're right, it didn't do everything, but it was a major, major, major step, and once the US became actively involved in the war (rather than cheer leading from the sides and shipping caches of weapons to the allies) after Pearl Harbor was bombed the US government became an even larger source of contract
The discussion was started with Mandark saying "BOO-YAH!" because the Federal Government used expansionary fiscal policy (Keynesian policy) to get the US out of the Great Depression by injecting money into the economy (creating manufacturing jobs, much?) to fund the war, which could include Lend Lease if you look at it from whatever perspective you're looking at it from. I thought your opposition was that you didn't think USG was responsible for it, because that doesn't fit your ideology and therefore couldn't have possibly happened.At the time of the discussion I more or less did actually
Gaborn said:At the time of the discussion I more or less did actually
Yeah, I don't get it. I thought he was trying to CYA for puppies, sunshine, and ice cream when Mandark brought up the point initially, so I don't really know where the Lend Lease love is suddenly coming from.thekad said:So wait, a government program (an interventionist one, at that!) pulled America out of the Great Depression? Are you sure you want to stick with that?
I would believe that he doesn't have a deep understanding of economics, but I can't buy that he doesn't know what a surrogate does.Tamanon said:It's like he doesn't understand the concept of surrogates.
Tamanon said:Oh McCain.
"Phil Gramm doesn't speak for me, I speak for me."
It's like he doesn't understand the concept of surrogates.:lol
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/07/10/1192723.aspxSenator McCain, however, has said that we've made "great progress" on the economy. And Senator Phil Gramm, a top economic advisor to Senator McCain, just recently said that this is merely "a mental recession." Senator Gramm then deemed the United States -- and I quote -- "a nation of whiners." This comes after Senator McCain recently admitted that his energy proposals will have mainly "psychological" benefits.
Well, you know, America already has one Dr. Phil. When it comes to the economy, we don't need another.
Lets be clear, when people are struggling with the rising costs of everything from gas to groceries, when weve lost 438,000 jobs over the past six months, when typical families have seen their incomes fall nearly $1,000 since 2000, this economic downturn isnt in our heads. It isnt whining to ask for more than just psychological relief.
And I think its time we had a President who doesnt deny our problems or blame the American people for them but takes responsibility and provides the leadership to solve them. Thats the kind of President I will be.
i think the first Operation Iraq Bitchslap (aka: i love me some Kuwaiti Oil) was funded almost entirely by foreign monies.icarus-daedelus said:Also, name me a U.S. war besides the current ones where funding was derived mainly from overseas sources.
Really? I always thought it was just Revolutionary & Operation Freedom (and Afghanistan, I guess), but I guess we could add that to the list.scorcho said:i think the first Operation Iraq Bitchslap (aka: i love me some Kuwaiti Oil) was funded almost entirely by foreign monies.
That was good over seas funding . . . they paid for it. The current funding is all borrowed, that is what sucks. We are going in massive debt to a communist nation.scorcho said:i think the first Operation Iraq Bitchslap (aka: i love me some Kuwaiti Oil) was funded almost entirely by foreign monies.
Easy tiny wars are also a good way to bolster the popularity of the currently elected public officials responsible. Maggie Thatcher knows what's up.Tamanon said:Did we really even spend much money on the first Iraq beatdown? It was more of a fly-by-night operation that let us get rid of old munitions.