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PoliGAF Interim Thread of USA General Elections (DAWN OF THE VEEP)

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Just got some knock on the door from two DNC Obama people. In San Diego. California.


Oh noes, McCain is putting CA in play!

But it really was weird for them to still go door to door here in CA.
 

HokieJoe

Member
icarus-daedelus said:
Well, we are sitting north of 600 million Spanish/Portuguese speakers.

Hell let's face it, we should all probably learn Chinese or Indian and call it day. lol

But seriously, right now, we need more people entering and taking an interest in math, science, and engineering fields. Learning a foreign language has little to do with that goal ATM. In the future, we may need to encourage kids to take Spanish courses; or make Spanish a mandatory second language. Right now that shouldn't be our focus; or should I say, it shouldn't be used as an excuse to take our eye off more important educational issues.
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
titiklabingapat said:
Just got some knock on the door from two DNC Obama people. In San Diego. California.


Oh noes, McCain is putting CA in play!

But it really was weird for them to still go door to door here in CA.
padding the popular vote
They want your money
 
reilo said:
Christ.

I mean really, Jesus H Titty-Fucking CHRIST.
Executive privilege, which the Supreme Court soundly rejected in the 70s in all cases that didn't involve FP or the military. :lol Tell me what the Governor of Alabama has to do with foreign policy, Rove, please.

edit: Obama is hardly doing that, HJ, though it's good that you agree that learning a second language is A Good Thing. :D
 
Oh yeah, Gregory's big story of the day was about Jesse Jackson statement about Obama. Nevermind the crash and burn that was going on in McCain's camp today on several fronts. Wasn't the Jesse Jackson's comments big news yesterday?
 

laserbeam

Banned
Whiner statement bad timing but whiner statement totally true and Europe has been saying it for years about the US.

People in the United States have it better then 85% of the world even in our bad times. Wait til real economic collapse and then people will wish it was like today.

Americans are the KING of whiners when it comes to this kind of thing. We are catching up to the rest of the indutrialized world in terms of prices etc. America had it easy while most of the world was in our current state.

No matter who becomes president its not gonna change anytime soon so get used to whining the ships come home and it demands we pay for the luxury we have exploited for years
 

GhaleonEB

Member
It's been interesting seeing how some of the online news sites have covered the Gramm comments about the US being a "nation of whiners". MSNBC noted it in their blog, but never put anything on their front page until McCain commented. Now the headline, and article, are framed around McCain's repudiation. Similarly, cnn.com noted it in their "political ticker", but didn't make it a headline until Gramm gave them an interview explaining the comments. So their article is about his explanation. Politico does a similar take, noting it in the blog but only front-paging it when McCain responded, and the story/headline is "McCain rebukes Gramm on economy".

In all of those cases, the articles are framed around McCain's repudiation and Gramm's explanation. When those guys covered the Clark comment about McCain being shot down, they were mostly focused on McCain's criticism and attacks on Obama. In both cases, their coverage is framed by McCain's side of the story. It's been apparent for a while now how these guys cover for McCain, but the contrast with Clark's comments just a week ago made it even more obvious.

By contrast, ABC News and CBS News frame their stories around Obama's criticism.
 

Keylime

ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
the disgruntled gamer said:
Only 74%? Democrats doomed confirmed.
1215729459308.gif
 

Cuu

Member
ViperVisor said:
Rasmussen does the most Dickish polls.

Saw the one on Bilingualism they did just now on Hannity and Colmes.

Since when is bilingualism a bad thing? I wish I was bilingual, and wish I had the opportunity to learn another language at a younger age.

Hannity and the other guests' only reason was simply arrogance.

The only reason to watch this tripe is to basically counter all the crap that some people believe word for word because it was said on Fox.
 
laserbeam said:
Whiner statement bad timing but whiner statement totally true and Europe has been saying it for years about the US.

People in the United States have it better then 85% of the world even in our bad times. Wait til real economic collapse and then people will wish it was like today.

Americans are the KING of whiners when it comes to this kind of thing. We are catching up to the rest of the indutrialized world in terms of prices etc. America had it easy while most of the world was in our current state.

No matter who becomes president its not gonna change anytime soon so get used to whining the ships come home and it demands we pay for the luxury we have exploited for years

We have an entire nation worth of infrastructure that was built around cheap gasoline, we have a health care system that fails tens of millions of people and gouges tens of millions more, and we have a supplemental income system for elderly that is failing and will be dead by the time that those of us who are currently paying in ever think about drawing. Shit isn't all peaches and cream here and most Europeans have a very idealized, pie-in-the-sky view of what America truly is.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
laserbeam said:
Whiner statement bad timing but whiner statement totally true and Europe has been saying it for years about the US.

People in the United States have it better then 85% of the world even in our bad times. Wait til real economic collapse and then people will wish it was like today.

Americans are the KING of whiners when it comes to this kind of thing. We are catching up to the rest of the indutrialized world in terms of prices etc. America had it easy while most of the world was in our current state.

No matter who becomes president its not gonna change anytime soon so get used to whining the ships come home and it demands we pay for the luxury we have exploited for years

Sorry, as someone that has lived in Europe for 11 years, and in the US for 10, I gotta call bullshit on this.

If you think it's reasonable that my father has to pay $10,000 PER MONTH in diesel costs, doing a job on which the entire industry and infrastructure relies upon and is built on, then you are quite foolish.
 
WickedAngel said:
we have a supplemental income system for elderly that is failing and will be dead by the time that those of us who are currently paying in ever think about drawing.
No and no.

Although the second could be true if no changes - at all - to the system are made by... 2042... but even then (and it could be 10 years later, depending on which gov't agency you listen to) it won't 100% fail so much as it will start digging into the regular budget.
 

laserbeam

Banned
reilo said:
Sorry, as someone that has lived in Europe for 11 years, and in the US for 10, I gotta call bullshit on this.

If you think it's reasonable that my father has to pay $10,000 PER MONTH in diesel costs, doing a job on which the entire industry and infrastructure relies upon and is built on, then you are quite foolish.

I didnt say its reasonable. I said Americans have been living in a seperate world away from the realities of cost other nations have paid etc. America has competition now in terms of oil consumption etc and the Finite resource is starting to dry up.

America is now experiancing what a large portion of the world has been faced with for a very long time. Most Americans response is to whine about it rather then pressure the government to fix things or question why so many technologies over the year that could have helped avoid now were snapped up by corporations etc to be thrown away so the status quo could be maintained.

America as I said has had its ship come in. The real world was knocking on the door and America opened the door. At this point any major reforms to stabilize costs and the economy will take years and years to make an impact. America needs to sotp whining and get used to the new world.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
laserbeam said:
I didnt say its reasonable. I said Americans have been living in a seperate world away from the realities of cost other nations have paid etc. America has competition now in terms of oil consumption etc and the Finite resource is starting to dry up.

America is now experiancing what a large portion of the world has been faced with for a very long time. Most Americans response is to whine about it rather then pressure the government to fix things or question why so many technologies over the year that could have helped avoid now were snapped up by corporations etc to be thrown away so the status quo could be maintained.

What do you think we are whining about? We are whining about the fact that our government, and specifically this current administration in the White House, has been doing jack shit for its citizens, and instead has lined the pockets of conglomerates.

If we don't whine, how are we supposed to put pressure on our representatives?
 

laserbeam

Banned
reilo said:
What do you think we are whining about? We are whining about the fact that our government, and specifically this current administration in the White House, has been doing jack shit for its citizens, and instead has lined the pockets of conglomerates.

If we don't whine, how are we supposed to put pressure on our representatives?

Its not this Administration thats the whole point. Its in fashion to blame all our woes on George Bush but this is not some new thing. If anything we can blame every President since Carter for our current situation.

Oil was gonna start soaring no matter who is or was president. Finite resource that gets harder to find results in increased prices. 2 new Mega Industrialized Nations competeing with the USA for biggest user of Oil gonna make prices soar.

For decades instead of advancing our technology in regards to fuel technologies and car improvements we have had corporations buy patents from people for such improvements so they could bury them to maintain the status quo.
 

Azih

Member
I gotta say guys, of all the places I've been to in the States, NYC is the only place that seems sustainable to me. Density is key people.
 

Farmboy

Member
Sorry if old; found this kind of disturbing:

Asked what first comes to his mind when he thinks of Pittsburgh, McCain chuckled, "the Steelers. I was a mediocre high school athlete but I loved and adored the sports but the Steelers really made a huge impression on me particularly in my early years."

And then McCain told a rather moving story about his time as a P.O.W. "When I was first interrogated and really had to give some information because of the pressures, physical pressures on me, I named the starting lineup, defensive line of the Pittsburgh Steelers as my squadron mates."

[...]

"Could you do it today?" asked the reporter.

"No, unfortunately," McCain said.

Here's one reason he likely couldn't do it today -- the Steelers aren't the team whose defensive line McCain named for his Vietnamese tormentors. The Green Bay Packers are. At least according to every previous time McCain has told this story. And the McCain campaign just told ABC News that the senator made a mistake -- it was, indeed, the Packers.

We have to come up with shorthand for "a normally campaign-sinking gaffe that the media kind of gloss over when it involves the McCain campaign, but would have a field day with if it concerned Obama". We've had, like, four of those in the past 24 hours alone.
 

HokieJoe

Member
reilo said:
What do you think we are whining about? We are whining about the fact that our government, and specifically this current administration in the White House, has been doing jack shit for its citizens, and instead has lined the pockets of conglomerates.

If we don't whine, how are we supposed to put pressure on our representatives?


Ehh, none of our politicians have done anything for the past 30 years. Both sides of the aisle have neglected this problem. We, the voters, are to blame as well. We've allowed these knuckleheads to take extremes and politic the issue while simultaneously not doing shit to rectify the situation.

IMO, Obama and McCain better choose their words wisely on this issue. The river of political bullshit that's worked for past politician's won't float their butts this time around. If fuel prices keep scaling upward, the whole election will turn on this single issue.
 
Farmboy said:
We have to come up with shorthand for "a normally campaign-sinking gaffe that the media kind of gloss over when it involves the McCain campaign, but would have a field day with if it concerned Obama". We've had, like, four of those in the past 24 hours alone.

Rating?
 

Farmboy

Member
Farmboy said:
We have to come up with shorthand for "a normally campaign-sinking gaffe that the media kind of gloss over when it involves the McCain campaign, but would have a field day with if it concerned Obama". We've had, like, four of those in the past 24 hours alone.

...and HuffPo counts ten in the past week. Worth Digging.
 

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
Farmboy said:
...and HuffPo counts ten in the past week. Worth Digging.


add another one:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/07/10/mccain-misfires-on-obama-attack/

McCain misfires on Obama attack

(CNN) — It turns out that John McCain made an off-the-mark error when he launched at Barack Obama this week over Iran’s missile tests.

In a statement criticizing Obama’s positions on the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, the organization claiming credit for the missile launches, McCain wrote, “This is the same organization that I voted to condemn as a terrorist organization when an amendment was on the floor of the United States Senate. Senator Obama refused to vote.”

The problem with the critique? McCain also missed that vote on the Kyl-Lieberman amendment on September 26, 2007. Records show that Obama was in New Hampshire and McCain was in New York instead of being in the Senate chamber for the vote in question.

The McCain campaign admits the error but points to their candidate’s tough stance against the country President Bush once grouped into the “axis of evil.”

“Its time to make the Iranians understand that this kind of violation of international treaties, this kind of threat, threatening of their neighbors, continued military activity is not without cost,” McCain said on Wednesday.

Despite Obama’s voting absence, his campaign is touting legislation he sponsored in March 2007 (S. 970) which also would have designated the Iranian Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist organization. Obama’s legislation never had a vote in the Senate.
 
McCain not a natural born US citizen?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/11/us/politics/11mccain.html?_r=1&ref=politics&oref=slogin

July 11, 2008
A Hint of New Life to a McCain Birth Issue
By ADAM LIPTAK

In the most detailed examination yet of Senator John McCain’s eligibility to be president, a law professor at the University of Arizona has concluded that neither Mr. McCain’s birth in 1936 in the Panama Canal Zone nor the fact that his parents were American citizens is enough to satisfy the constitutional requirement that the president must be a “natural-born citizen.”

The analysis, by Prof. Gabriel J. Chin, focused on a 1937 law that has been largely overlooked in the debate over Mr. McCain’s eligibility to be president. The law conferred citizenship on children of American parents born in the Canal Zone after 1904, and it made John McCain a citizen just before his first birthday. But the law came too late, Professor Chin argued, to make Mr. McCain a natural-born citizen.

“It’s preposterous that a technicality like this can make a difference in an advanced democracy,” Professor Chin said. “But this is the constitutional text that we have.”

Several legal experts said that Professor Chin’s analysis was careful and plausible. But they added that nothing was very likely to follow from it.

“No court will get close to it, and everyone else is on board, so there’s a constitutional consensus, the merits of arguments such as this one aside,” said Peter J. Spiro, an authority on the law of citizenship at Temple University.

Mr. McCain has dismissed any suggestion that he does not meet the citizenship test.

In April, the Senate approved a nonbinding resolution declaring that Mr. McCain is eligible to be president. Its sponsors said the nation’s founders would have never intended to deny the presidency to the offspring of military personnel stationed out of the country.

A lawsuit challenging Mr. McCain’s qualifications is pending in the Federal District Court in Concord, N.H.

There are, Professor Chin argued in his analysis, only two ways to become a natural-born citizen. One, specified in the Constitution, is to be born in the United States. The other way is to be covered by a law enacted by Congress at the time of one’s birth.

Professor Chin wrote that simply being born in the Canal Zone did not satisfy the 14th Amendment, which says that “all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States.”

A series of early-20th-century decisions known as the Insular Cases, he wrote, ruled that unincorporated territories acquired by the United States were not part of the nation for constitutional purposes. The Insular Cases did not directly address the Canal Zone. But the zone was generally considered an unincorporated territory before it was returned to Panama in 1999, and some people born in the Canal Zone when it was under American jurisdiction have been deported from the United States or convicted of being here illegally.

The second way Mr. McCain could have, and ultimately did, become a citizen was by statute, Professor Chin wrote. In Rogers v. Bellei in 1971, the Supreme Court said Congress had broad authority to decide whether and when children born to American citizens abroad are citizens.

At the time of Mr. McCain’s birth, the relevant law granted citizenship to any child born to an American parent “out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States.” Professor Chin said the term “limits and jurisdiction” left a crucial gap. The Canal Zone was beyond the limits of the United States but not beyond its jurisdiction, and thus the law did not apply to Mr. McCain.

In 1937, Congress addressed the problem, enacting a law that granted citizenship to people born in the Canal Zone after 1904. That made Mr. McCain a citizen, but not one who was naturally born, Professor Chin said, because the citizenship was conferred after his birth.

In his paper and in an interview, Professor Chin, a registered Democrat, said he had no political motive in raising the question.

In March, Laurence H. Tribe, a law professor at Harvard and an adviser to Senator Barack Obama, prepared a memorandum on these questions with Theodore B. Olson, a former solicitor general in the Bush administration. The memorandum concluded that Mr. McCain is a natural-born citizen based on the place of his birth, the citizenship of his parents and their service to the country.

In an interview on Thursday, Mr. Olson, whose firm represents Mr. McCain in the New Hampshire lawsuit, said Congress could not have intended to leave the gap described by Professor Chin. The 1937 law, Mr. Olson said, was not a fix but a way to clarify what Congress had meant all along.

Professor Tribe agreed. Reading the “limits and jurisdiction” clause as Professor Chin does, Professor Tribe said, “is to attribute a crazy design to Congress” that “would create an irrational gap.”

Brian Rogers, a McCain spokesman, said the campaign concurred and was confident Mr. McCain is eligible to serve.

In the motion to dismiss the New Hampshire suit, Mr. McCain’s lawyers said an individual citizen like the plaintiff, a Nashua man named Fred Hollander, lacks proof of direct injury and cannot sue.

Daniel P. Tokaji, an election law expert at Ohio State University, agreed. “It is awfully unlikely that a federal court would say that an individual voter has standing,” he said. “It is questionable whether anyone would have standing to raise that claim. You’d have to think a federal court would look for every possible way to avoid deciding the issue.”

Probably nothing, but interesting anyway.
 

JayDubya

Banned
"In April, the Senate approved a nonbinding resolution declaring that Mr. McCain is eligible to be president. Its sponsors said the nation’s founders would have never intended to deny the presidency to the offspring of military personnel stationed out of the country."

The nation's founders would have never intended to have military personnel stationed out of the country. :p
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Tamanon said:
Chris Dodd confirms he's being vetted. Sebelius doesn't deny it. Clinton says she is not.

Richardson is being vetted as well.

Dodd's chances were shot in the foot because of the countrywide thing. even though all accounts are none of the people who got the special rate asked for it or even knew they got it. It sounds like it was a friend helping his buddies out.. but perception is everything.
 

Cuu

Member
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11618.html

what what what?

I read that list yesterday and thought it was pretty impressive he had many university faculty members sign on, but reading today that they just signed a broad letter of his objectives, or signed just to support McCain and not his actual plan itself just seems... like lying. I'm not usually one to trust political blogs, but is this true?
 

Tamanon

Banned
Cuu said:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11618.html

what what what?

I read that list yesterday and thought it was pretty impressive he had many university faculty members sign on, but reading today that they just signed a broad letter of his objectives, or signed just to support McCain and not his actual plan itself just seems... like lying. I'm not usually one to trust political blogs, but is this true?

Yup, it's true, the letter had been crafted months ago and people were just signing saying they agree with McCain's economic philosophy, not the plan itself.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Well, the "Nation of Whiners" comment is getting more press then I expected.. once again the media is making a bigger deal out of a story then necessary.

The media needs reform quite badly.

(On a side note, it's nice McCain is taking some unnecessary flak. After all we are a nation of Equal Opportunity, and that applies to Bull Shit)
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Suikoguy said:
Well, the "Nation of Whiners" comment is getting more press then I expected.. once again the media is making a bigger deal out of a story then necessary.

The media needs reform quite badly.

(On a side note, it's nice McCain is taking some unnecessary flak. After all we are a nation of Equal Opportunity, and that applies to Bull Shit)

It needs to be played more. The Gramm guy said something thats 100% false and it needs to be repeated that this guy helps mccain on ecoomic issues.
 
What's this bit about Michelle Obama saying something to the effect of "A $600 stimulus check is nothing. You can buy a pair of earrings with that money."? Somebody yesterday told me that she's recently said this.
 

so_awes

Banned
Lv99 Slacker said:
What's this bit about Michelle Obama saying something to the effect of "A $600 stimulus check is nothing. You can buy a pair of earrings with that money."? Somebody yesterday told me that she's recently said this.
that's not what i heard. somebody told me it was McCain's wife who said that.
 

Tamanon

Banned
"You're getting $600," she told an audience of mostly African-American women here. "What can you do with that? Not to be ungrateful or anything. But maybe it pays down a bill, but it doesn't pay down every bill every month."

"Barack's approach is that the short-term quick fix kinda stuff sounds good," she continued. "And it may even feel good that first month when you get that check. And then you go out and you buy a pair of earrings," she joked.

From Tuesday. Nothing bad.
 
Lv99 Slacker said:
What's this bit about Michelle Obama saying something to the effect of "A $600 stimulus check is nothing. You can buy a pair of earrings with that money."? Somebody yesterday told me that she's recently said this.


It was a joke. Don't expect the press to provide any context or do any other than spew GOP accusations at her though. I'm also sure that scathing article in the LA Times about McCain's infidelity will be completely ignored as well though.
 
this thread is too big and I missed the whole Jessie nuts thing...


okay can someone tell me about this Obama Euro trip? How many countries and speeches in EU?
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Nor was she implying people buy $600 earrings - just that people won't spend all of the check on bills, etc. Which is true, but hey.

Oh, and Gallups.

080711DailyUpdateGraph1_fgrtwps.gif


Rasmussen actually closed to a 1 point Obama lead, so they're swinging back and forth past each other.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Smiles and Cries said:
what is a whiner-gate? :(

EURO TRIP?

Dude you missed it!

Phil Gramm, McCain's top economic advisor said it was a "mental recession" and "America is a nation of whiners"!

Awesome stuff.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
maximum360 said:
It was a joke. Don't expect the press to provide any context or do any other than spew GOP accusations at her though. I'm also sure that scathing article in the LA Times about McCain's infidelity will be completely ignored as well though.

So this was just a joke? Cool. Got scared for a moment.

The press should just laugh and keep moving. Just like they did about the Mccain saying its good that Iranians are dyingfrom cigeratte smoke.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Tamanon said:
Dude you missed it!

Phil Gramm, McCain's top economic advisor said it was a "mental recession" and "America is a nation of whiners"!

Awesome stuff.
Some catch-up materials

Gramm's comments: http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/07/top_mccain_surrogate_describes.php

Video: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/203634.php

McCain comments: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/203535.php

Obama knocking it out of the park: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/07/10/obama-mocks-gramm-over-mccain/

McCain/Gramm love-fest: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/203671.php

And Gramm has said he's not retracting his comments, and stands by them.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
So will Joe Scarbraho, Gregory, and the boys ask what happened to MCcain closing in on Obama?

Or is a 6 point lead not enough?
 

Tamanon

Banned
mckmas8808 said:
So will Joe Scarbraho, Gregory, and the boys ask what happened to MCcain closing in on Obama?

Or is a 6 point lead not enough?

Nah, because Rasmussen has it down to a 1-point lead, so they'll use that one:p
 
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