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PoliGAF Interim Thread of USA General Elections (DAWN OF THE VEEP)

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Virginia: 500,000 new voters under the age of 26

From the Virginian-Pilot

The pool of 18- to 25-year-olds signing up to vote in this year’s presidential election is growing at twice the rate of all Virginia voters, according state election officials.

The surge in young registrants, which experts attribute to heightened interest in national politics, means that the group of voters 25 and younger in the state has grown 10 percent in the past year, while the growth in the entire voter pool has increased 5 percent, according to the Virginia State Board of Elections.

The young voters make up only a slightly larger portion this year of Virginia’s 4.7 million registered voters – an estimated 11 percent of all voters a year ago and 12 percent today. As of last week, 569,817 registered voters in the commonwealth are under 26 years old.

Apparently the newspaper is Republican (or has a subtle sense of humor) because they went on to try and paint this as an opportunity for McCain to gain ground (and no this not from that trickster Dewey Cheetham these are the actual quotes):



Gail Gitcho, the mid-Atlantic communications director for presumptive Republican presidential nominee John McCain, said dozens of young volunteers are coming to McCain’s Virginia offices every day to work for the 71-year-old senator.

McCain has a very strong appeal among young people,” she said, noting that he’s reaching out through Facebook, YouTube and late-night television appearances. McCain has been on Comedy Central’s “The Daily Show with Jon Stewart” 13 times – the most of any guest.

“I think both of these candidates are not your typical candidates,” Pilchen said. “It’s on both sides – not just Obama, who certainly has a lot of youth appeal.”

McCain’s reputation as an independent voice who often co-sponsors legislation with Democrats appeals to young voters, Pilchen said.

State Del. Jeff Frederick, R-Prince William County, the 32-year-old chairman of the Republican Party of Virginia, agreed.

“Just because you’re 71 years old doesn’t mean you can’t relate to someone who’s younger,” he said

And yes the article had lots of snippets detailing how Obama is creating the interest and is going to do well but these dellusional Republican toadies are just more interesting. To read the article http://hamptonroads.com/2008/07/more-young-virginians-are-registering-will-they-vote

More Obama in Iraq pics

r3591765945.jpg

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r1376996704.jpg

capt.2e1e59a7e82649d08b8c727047bd6ea6.iraq_obama_bag117.jpg

capt.43d00d0659c74a87bf89773d51091419.aptopix_iraq_obama_bag115.jpg

capt.c03c0119e4a041a1bc608b43bfadaf1b.iraq_obama_bag114.jpg
 
quadriplegicjon said:
oh. were you being sarcastic with that other post? its hard to tell sometimes :lol
Yeah. 99% of the time, the VP is the most useless person in the White House. The other 1% are lucky - I'm looking at you, Truman and Johnson (both of 'em) - but I really don't see that off chance as a reason to vote for a Presidential candidate (or not.)
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
icarus-daedelus said:
Yup. The elected official whose two constitutional duties are:

1) Tie-breaking votes in the Senate

2) Taking over when the boss dies

Important stuff, that Veep does.
It's the all important fourth branch. Not of the executive, not of congress and unbeholden to the judicial. :lol
 
I keep hearing about Mitt Romney as the likeliest VP pick for McSame.

Do you guys think that this will really help him? (I really don't know).
 
Rice limits embassies' aid for candidates

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/jul/21/rice-limits-embassies-aid-for-candidates/
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has instructed U.S. overseas missions to provide only minimal support to foreign visits by the two main presidential candidates, Sens. Barack Obama and John McCain, forbidding diplomats to hold events or arrange meetings for them.

In a cable sent late Thursday on the eve of Mr. Obama's swing through the Middle East and Europe, Miss Rice told U.S. diplomats to treat the candidates as "members of Congress visiting in personal or semi-personal capacities," but "with additional restrictions based on rules related to political activity."

"Provide de minimis assistance to the candidate with logistical arrangements," said the cable, a copy of which was obtained by The Washington Times. "If the campaign staff wants to rent a bus for press, tell them where they can rent a bus."

Mr. Obama, Illinois Democrat, is in the midst of a high-profile foreign trip to Asia, the Middle East and Western Europe that is being intensely scrutinized for its political impact back home.

And yet I don't recall her mentioning this last March when McCain went overseas

Last March, McCain went to Iraq, Israel, London, and Paris.

Last March, he was already the presumptive republican presidential nominee.

Last March, I don't recall Rice mentioning how she believes foreign embassies shouldn't help candidates.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
:lol at Bush avoiding that reporters question about Obama's withdrawal plan being supported by Maliki.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Did John McCain really discuss judgment, and said that he had superior judgment than Obama because he supported the surge?

Come the fuck on. What about your damn judgment in supporting the Iraq war? What about your judgment knowing for a fact that over 4,000 US soldiers died?

Fuck McCain's judgment. He has no leg to stand on this issue.

This RNC surrogate says that if Obama had been president during the Iraq war, that there would be genocide going on in Iraq right now.

So, here's the question:

Are we delusional, or are they?
 
GhaleonEB said:
They wanted a policy piece, similar to what Obama submitted. Instead, McCain sent a hit-piece on Obama.
Kudos to the NYT for this. I like how the editor worded it too. "Here's a suggestion, add some meat and don't be a dick!"
 
reilo said:
This RNC surrogate says that if Obama had been president during the Iraq war, that there would be genocide going on in Iraq right now.

You mean like the ethnic cleansing and sectarian segregation that has been occuring in places like Baghdad since the end of shock and awe?

here are some fun maps:

jonesmap%201.jpg


Note the way that the city polarizes into shi'a and sunni divisions over time down from the mixed muslim areas in 2006. Also note that violence has gone down as well-there's no more fuel for the fire,so to speak.
 

Trakdown

Member
reilo said:
Did John McCain really discuss judgment, and said that he had superior judgment than Obama because he supported the surge?

Come the fuck on. What about your damn judgment in supporting the Iraq war? What about your judgment knowing for a fact that over 4,000 US soldiers died?

Fuck McCain's judgment. He has no leg to stand on this issue.

This RNC surrogate says that if Obama had been president during the Iraq war, that there would be genocide going on in Iraq right now.

So, here's the question:

Are we delusional, or are they?

If Obama had been president along this timeline, there would be no Iraq War. So, obviously, it's them.
 

Tamanon

Banned
BTW, McCain is lucky that the Obama camp is overseas or he'd be being HAMMERED on his silly attacks the past couple days.

Agent: Actually, yeah he has said in the past.

And Andrea Mitchell is FUMING over the fact that the press wasn't on Obama's senatorial delegation part.
 
Tamanon said:
BTW, McCain is lucky that the Obama camp is overseas or he'd be being HAMMERED on his silly attacks the past couple days.

Agent: Actually, yeah he has said in the past.

And Andrea Mitchell is FUMING over the fact that the press wasn't on Obama's senatorial delegation part.

Yep. She's ticked. I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't some backlash from the military regarding her harsh assessment of their journalistic talent/integrity.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Seriously, I don't think I've ever seen Andrea Mitchell so mad. For some reason she kept railing against the military coverage and how they weren't real reporters and resented being used for political gain. Bizarre. Especially considering her tone when McCain went on his little jaunt to Iraq.

maximum: Exactly, especially her comment on "Well they're not PAID to do these interviews". Well, Andrea, actually the people that do the interviews and such ARE paid to do that. The military media wing handles it.
 
mckmas8808 said:
McCain raises Obama's lack of military service.

One of the most interesting things about the photos from Obama's visits on the military bases is how much more "right" he looks with the enlistedmen compared to McCain. The combination of being younger and being a minority really made him fit right in with the young, diverse active duty enlistedmen we have serving oversees.

McCain looked like he only really "fit in" in terms of appearance with the officers, and even then, only the senior staff.
 

Omne

Banned
Am I the only one that's appalled at the NY Times?

I mean, I know that they are traditionally seen as the most prominent "liberal-bias omg omg" publication, but refusing to publish an editorial by McCain that was responding to one written by Obama days before? That borders on absurdity.

Politics are supposed to be about the exchanging of ideas and the debating of issues, not about silencing one side of the spectrum so that the other side can spend time in the spotlight. The NY Times leans to the left, and that's fine, but this is just bad policy.

Both Democrats and Republicans should be outraged by this. It's not just an affront to Republicans, or to the McCain campaign, it's an affront to the practice of politics as a whole.
 

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
Fragamemnon said:
One of the most interesting things about the photos from Obama's visits on the military bases is how much more "right" he looks with the enlistedmen compared to McCain. The combination of being younger and being a minority really made him fit right in with the young, diverse active duty enlistedmen we have serving oversees.

McCain looked like he only really "fit in" in terms of appearance with the officers, and even then, only the senior staff.
no, that really means nothing.

Omne said:
Am I the only one that's appalled at the NY Times?
without knowing the specifics, i'd imagine there is a level of quality control in the Times that compels them to not post any sort of drivel dished out by a candidate and his/her team. i'm more likely to believe in the McCain camp using this as an excuse to run to Drudge with a story ready made to rally the base and deflate news on Obama's trip/Iraq/etc.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Omne said:
Am I the only one that's appalled at the NY Times?

I mean, I know that they are traditionally seen as the most prominent "liberal-bias omg omg" publication, but refusing to publish an editorial by McCain that was responding to one written by Obama days before? That borders on absurdity.

Politics are supposed to be about the exchanging of ideas and the debating of issues, not about silencing one side of the spectrum so that the other side can spend time in the spotlight. The NY Times leans to the left, and that's fine, but this is just bad policy.

Both Democrats and Republicans should be outraged by this. It's not just an affront to Republicans, or to the McCain campaign, it's an affront to the practice of politics as a whole.

Um, did you read the "editorial"? It wasn't one.

NYT response:

"It is standard procedure on our Op-Ed page, and that of other newspapers, to go back and forth with an author on his or her submission. We look forward to publishing Senator McCain's views in our paper just as we have in the past. We have published at least seven Op-Ed pieces by Senator McCain since 1996. The New York Times endorsed Senator McCain as the Republican candidate in the presidential primaries. We take his views very seriously."

They weren't refusing to run any op-eds from McCain, they were refusing to run what was just an attack ad with no actual policy or even editorial opinion.
 

Omne

Banned
Tamanon said:
Um, did you read the "editorial"? It wasn't one.

They weren't refusing to run any op-eds from McCain, they were refusing to run what was just an attack ad with no actual policy or even editorial opinion.

Have you read it? There is a big difference between an "attack ad with no actual policy or editorial opinion" and what John McCain wrote. He provides ample evidence to support why he believes that Barack Obama has the wrong ideas on Iraq. You make it sound like he wrote an article about why "Barack Obama sux, lol" or something.

Here is the editorial for anyone that wants to read it.

John McCain said:
In January 2007, when General David Petraeus took command in Iraq, he called the situation “hard” but not “hopeless.” Today, 18 months later, violence has fallen by up to 80% to the lowest levels in four years, and Sunni and Shiite terrorists are reeling from a string of defeats. The situation now is full of hope, but considerable hard work remains to consolidate our fragile gains.

Progress has been due primarily to an increase in the number of troops and a change in their strategy. I was an early advocate of the surge at a time when it had few supporters in Washington. Senator Barack Obama was an equally vocal opponent. "I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there,” he said on January 10, 2007. “In fact, I think it will do the reverse."

Now Senator Obama has been forced to acknowledge that “our troops have performed brilliantly in lowering the level of violence.” But he still denies that any political progress has resulted.

Perhaps he is unaware that the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad has recently certified that, as one news article put it, “Iraq has met all but three of 18 original benchmarks set by Congress last year to measure security, political and economic progress.” Even more heartening has been progress that’s not measured by the benchmarks. More than 90,000 Iraqis, many of them Sunnis who once fought against the government, have signed up as Sons of Iraq to fight against the terrorists. Nor do they measure Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki’s new-found willingness to crack down on Shiite extremists in Basra and Sadr City—actions that have done much to dispel suspicions of sectarianism.

The success of the surge has not changed Senator Obama’s determination to pull out all of our combat troops. All that has changed is his rationale. In a New York Times op-ed and a speech this week, he offered his “plan for Iraq” in advance of his first “fact finding” trip to that country in more than three years. It consisted of the same old proposal to pull all of our troops out within 16 months. In 2007 he wanted to withdraw because he thought the war was lost. If we had taken his advice, it would have been. Now he wants to withdraw because he thinks Iraqis no longer need our assistance.

To make this point, he mangles the evidence. He makes it sound as if Prime Minister Maliki has endorsed the Obama timetable, when all he has said is that he would like a plan for the eventual withdrawal of U.S. troops at some unspecified point in the future.

Senator Obama is also misleading on the Iraqi military's readiness. The Iraqi Army will be equipped and trained by the middle of next year, but this does not, as Senator Obama suggests, mean that they will then be ready to secure their country without a good deal of help. The Iraqi Air Force, for one, still lags behind, and no modern army can operate without air cover. The Iraqis are also still learning how to conduct planning, logistics, command and control, communications, and other complicated functions needed to support frontline troops.

No one favors a permanent U.S. presence, as Senator Obama charges. A partial withdrawal has already occurred with the departure of five “surge” brigades, and more withdrawals can take place as the security situation improves. As we draw down in Iraq, we can beef up our presence on other battlefields, such as Afghanistan, without fear of leaving a failed state behind. I have said that I expect to welcome home most of our troops from Iraq by the end of my first term in office, in 2013.

But I have also said that any draw-downs must be based on a realistic assessment of conditions on the ground, not on an artificial timetable crafted for domestic political reasons. This is the crux of my disagreement with Senator Obama.

Senator Obama has said that he would consult our commanders on the ground and Iraqi leaders, but he did no such thing before releasing his “plan for Iraq.” Perhaps that’s because he doesn’t want to hear what they have to say. During the course of eight visits to Iraq, I have heard many times from our troops what Major General Jeffrey Hammond, commander of coalition forces in Baghdad, recently said: that leaving based on a timetable would be “very dangerous.”

The danger is that extremists supported by Al Qaeda and Iran could stage a comeback, as they have in the past when we’ve had too few troops in Iraq. Senator Obama seems to have learned nothing from recent history. I find it ironic that he is emulating the worst mistake of the Bush administration by waving the “Mission Accomplished” banner prematurely.

I am also dismayed that he never talks about winning the war—only of ending it. But if we don’t win the war, our enemies will. A triumph for the terrorists would be a disaster for us. That is something I will not allow to happen as president. Instead I will continue implementing a proven counterinsurgency strategy not only in Iraq but also in Afghanistan with the goal of creating stable, secure, self-sustaining democratic allies.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Yes, but what the Times had asked for was him to add in something resembling A PLAN FOR IRAQ. Politicians don't just get free space on an Op-Ed page to attack each other generally.
 

bob_arctor

Tough_Smooth
Omne said:
Am I the only one that's appalled at the NY Times?

I mean, I know that they are traditionally seen as the most prominent "liberal-bias omg omg" publication, but refusing to publish an editorial by McCain that was responding to one written by Obama days before? That borders on absurdity.

Politics are supposed to be about the exchanging of ideas and the debating of issues, not about silencing one side of the spectrum so that the other side can spend time in the spotlight. The NY Times leans to the left, and that's fine, but this is just bad policy.

Both Democrats and Republicans should be outraged by this. It's not just an affront to Republicans, or to the McCain campaign, it's an affront to the practice of politics as a whole.

It was a hit piece without substance full of the same pap we've heard for 8 years now. NYT said make it better by talking specific policy. There were no ideas being exchanged and there was no debating. There was, however, the usual chest-puffing and holier than thou attitude. And this gem, which makes me think maybe it's better he didn't get it published:

McCain said:
To make this point, he mangles the evidence. He makes it sound as if Prime Minister Maliki has endorsed the Obama timetable, when all he has said is that he would like a plan for the eventual withdrawal of U.S. troops at some unspecified point in the future.

:lol
 

bob_arctor

Tough_Smooth
If anything, the NYT is doing us a goddamn service by refusing that garbage. We've all heard enough of the same platitudes to last us a fucking lifetime.

"Oh, why can't he ever talk about winning the war? He only wants it to be called due to rain! Waaahhhh!"
 

Omne

Banned
Tamanon said:
Yes, but what the Times had asked for was him to add in something resembling A PLAN FOR IRAQ.

John McCain has published his opinions on the Iraq War, and what we should do about it numerous times in print. He has given several speeches on it as well. The reason Barack Obama's recent article (and speech) was such a big deal was because Barack Obama, unlike McCain, had never really given a issue-by-issue, detail specific plan for how his administration would deal with Iraq.

The point of John McCain's article was not to outline his plan for Iraq, which he has done numerous times, but to point out the flaws in Obama's plan. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that debating an important issue seems to be a right that any presidential candidate should have.

Preventing McCain from debating Obama by telling him to make his article "mirror" Obama's is just as bad as telling him that they won't allow him to run his piece at all.

He also alludes to his plan several times in the piece.

John McCain said:
No one favors a permanent U.S. presence, as Senator Obama charges. A partial withdrawal has already occurred with the departure of five “surge” brigades, and more withdrawals can take place as the security situation improves. As we draw down in Iraq, we can beef up our presence on other battlefields, such as Afghanistan, without fear of leaving a failed state behind. I have said that I expect to welcome home most of our troops from Iraq by the end of my first term in office, in 2013.


John McCain said:
But I have also said that any draw-downs must be based on a realistic assessment of conditions on the ground, not on an artificial timetable crafted for domestic political reasons. This is the crux of my disagreement with Senator Obama.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Omne said:
Have you read it? There is a big difference between an "attack ad with no actual policy or editorial opinion" and what John McCain wrote. He provides ample evidence to support why he believes that Barack Obama has the wrong ideas on Iraq. You make it sound like he wrote an article about why "Barack Obama sux, lol" or something.

Here is the editorial for anyone that wants to read it.
Okay, now contrast that against what they published for Obama. Most of his op-ed is spent outlining his actual policy, with only a few direct contrasts with McCain. Here I've tried to highlight the sentences in which Obama directly references McCain:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/14/o...3d&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink

CHICAGO — The call by Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki for a timetable for the removal of American troops from Iraq presents an enormous opportunity. We should seize this moment to begin the phased redeployment of combat troops that I have long advocated, and that is needed for long-term success in Iraq and the security interests of the United States.

The differences on Iraq in this campaign are deep. Unlike Senator John McCain, I opposed the war in Iraq before it began, and would end it as president. I believed it was a grave mistake to allow ourselves to be distracted from the fight against Al Qaeda and the Taliban by invading a country that posed no imminent threat and had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. Since then, more than 4,000 Americans have died and we have spent nearly $1 trillion. Our military is overstretched. Nearly every threat we face — from Afghanistan to Al Qaeda to Iran — has grown.

In the 18 months since President Bush announced the surge, our troops have performed heroically in bringing down the level of violence. New tactics have protected the Iraqi population, and the Sunni tribes have rejected Al Qaeda — greatly weakening its effectiveness.

But the same factors that led me to oppose the surge still hold true. The strain on our military has grown, the situation in Afghanistan has deteriorated and we’ve spent nearly $200 billion more in Iraq than we had budgeted. Iraq’s leaders have failed to invest tens of billions of dollars in oil revenues in rebuilding their own country, and they have not reached the political accommodation that was the stated purpose of the surge.

The good news is that Iraq’s leaders want to take responsibility for their country by negotiating a timetable for the removal of American troops. Meanwhile, Lt. Gen. James Dubik, the American officer in charge of training Iraq’s security forces, estimates that the Iraqi Army and police will be ready to assume responsibility for security in 2009.

Only by redeploying our troops can we press the Iraqis to reach comprehensive political accommodation and achieve a successful transition to Iraqis’ taking responsibility for the security and stability of their country. Instead of seizing the moment and encouraging Iraqis to step up, the Bush administration and Senator McCain are refusing to embrace this transition — despite their previous commitments to respect the will of Iraq’s sovereign government. They call any timetable for the removal of American troops “surrender,” even though we would be turning Iraq over to a sovereign Iraqi government.

But this is not a strategy for success — it is a strategy for staying that runs contrary to the will of the Iraqi people, the American people and the security interests of the United States. That is why, on my first day in office, I would give the military a new mission: ending this war.

As I’ve said many times, we must be as careful getting out of Iraq as we were careless getting in. We can safely redeploy our combat brigades at a pace that would remove them in 16 months. That would be the summer of 2010 — two years from now, and more than seven years after the war began. After this redeployment, a residual force in Iraq would perform limited missions: going after any remnants of Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, protecting American service members and, so long as the Iraqis make political progress, training Iraqi security forces. That would not be a precipitous withdrawal.

In carrying out this strategy, we would inevitably need to make tactical adjustments. As I have often said, I would consult with commanders on the ground and the Iraqi government to ensure that our troops were redeployed safely, and our interests protected. We would move them from secure areas first and volatile areas later. We would pursue a diplomatic offensive with every nation in the region on behalf of Iraq’s stability, and commit $2 billion to a new international effort to support Iraq’s refugees.

Ending the war is essential to meeting our broader strategic goals, starting in Afghanistan and Pakistan, where the Taliban is resurgent and Al Qaeda has a safe haven. Iraq is not the central front in the war on terrorism, and it never has been. As Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, recently pointed out, we won’t have sufficient resources to finish the job in Afghanistan until we reduce our commitment to Iraq.

As president, I would pursue a new strategy, and begin by providing at least two additional combat brigades to support our effort in Afghanistan. We need more troops, more helicopters, better intelligence-gathering and more nonmilitary assistance to accomplish the mission there. I would not hold our military, our resources and our foreign policy hostage to a misguided desire to maintain permanent bases in Iraq.

In this campaign, there are honest differences over Iraq, and we should discuss them with the thoroughness they deserve. Unlike Senator McCain, I would make it absolutely clear that we seek no presence in Iraq similar to our permanent bases in South Korea, and would redeploy our troops out of Iraq and focus on the broader security challenges that we face. But for far too long, those responsible for the greatest strategic blunder in the recent history of American foreign policy have ignored useful debate in favor of making false charges about flip-flops and surrender.

It’s not going to work this time. It’s time to end this war.
Compared to McCain:

In January 2007, when General David Petraeus took command in Iraq, he called the situation “hard” but not “hopeless.” Today, 18 months later, violence has fallen by up to 80% to the lowest levels in four years, and Sunni and Shiite terrorists are reeling from a string of defeats. The situation now is full of hope, but considerable hard work remains to consolidate our fragile gains.

Progress has been due primarily to an increase in the number of troops and a change in their strategy. I was an early advocate of the surge at a time when it had few supporters in Washington. Senator Barack Obama was an equally vocal opponent. "I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there,” he said on January 10, 2007. “In fact, I think it will do the reverse."

Now Senator Obama has been forced to acknowledge that “our troops have performed brilliantly in lowering the level of violence.” But he still denies that any political progress has resulted.

Perhaps he is unaware that the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad has recently certified that, as one news article put it, “Iraq has met all but three of 18 original benchmarks set by Congress last year to measure security, political and economic progress.”
Even more heartening has been progress that’s not measured by the benchmarks. More than 90,000 Iraqis, many of them Sunnis who once fought against the government, have signed up as Sons of Iraq to fight against the terrorists. Nor do they measure Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki’s new-found willingness to crack down on Shiite extremists in Basra and Sadr City—actions that have done much to dispel suspicions of sectarianism.

The success of the surge has not changed Senator Obama’s determination to pull out all of our combat troops. All that has changed is his rationale. In a New York Times op-ed and a speech this week, he offered his “plan for Iraq” in advance of his first “fact finding” trip to that country in more than three years. It consisted of the same old proposal to pull all of our troops out within 16 months. In 2007 he wanted to withdraw because he thought the war was lost. If we had taken his advice, it would have been. Now he wants to withdraw because he thinks Iraqis no longer need our assistance.

To make this point, he mangles the evidence. He makes it sound as if Prime Minister Maliki has endorsed the Obama timetable, when all he has said is that he would like a plan for the eventual withdrawal of U.S. troops at some unspecified point in the future.

Senator Obama is also misleading on the Iraqi military's readiness. The Iraqi Army will be equipped and trained by the middle of next year, but this does not, as Senator Obama suggests, mean that they will then be ready to secure their country without a good deal of help.
The Iraqi Air Force, for one, still lags behind, and no modern army can operate without air cover. The Iraqis are also still learning how to conduct planning, logistics, command and control, communications, and other complicated functions needed to support frontline troops.

No one favors a permanent U.S. presence, as Senator Obama charges. A partial withdrawal has already occurred with the departure of five “surge” brigades, and more withdrawals can take place as the security situation improves. As we draw down in Iraq, we can beef up our presence on other battlefields, such as Afghanistan, without fear of leaving a failed state behind. I have said that I expect to welcome home most of our troops from Iraq by the end of my first term in office, in 2013.

But I have also said that any draw-downs must be based on a realistic assessment of conditions on the ground, not on an artificial timetable crafted for domestic political reasons. This is the crux of my disagreement with Senator Obama.

Senator Obama has said that he would consult our commanders on the ground and Iraqi leaders, but he did no such thing before releasing his “plan for Iraq.” Perhaps that’s because he doesn’t want to hear what they have to say. During the course of eight visits to Iraq, I have heard many times from our troops what Major General Jeffrey Hammond, commander of coalition forces in Baghdad, recently said: that leaving based on a timetable would be “very dangerous.”

The danger is that extremists supported by Al Qaeda and Iran could stage a comeback, as they have in the past when we’ve had too few troops in Iraq. Senator Obama seems to have learned nothing from recent history. I find it ironic that he is emulating the worst mistake of the Bush administration by waving the “Mission Accomplished” banner prematurely.

I am also dismayed that he never talks about winning the war—only of ending it. But if we don’t win the war, our enemies will. A triumph for the terrorists would be a disaster for us. That is something I will not allow to happen as president. Instead I will continue implementing a proven counterinsurgency strategy not only in Iraq but also in Afghanistan with the goal of creating stable, secure, self-sustaining democratic allies.

Obama contrasts with McCain three times in his piece. McCain literally spends half his op-ed attacking Obama. The Times seems to be asking for more actual policy in his policy piece.
 

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
Omne said:
John McCain has published his opinions on the Iraq War, and what we should do about it numerous times in print. He has given several speeches on it as well. The reason Barack Obama's recent article (and speech) was such a big deal was because Barack Obama, unlike McCain, had never really given a issue-by-issue, detail specific plan for how his administration would deal with Iraq.


please enlighten me. because i have no idea what sort of detailed plans McCain has for Iraq.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Omne said:
John McCain has published his opinions on the Iraq War, and what we should do about it numerous times in print. He has given several speeches on it as well. The reason Barack Obama's recent article (and speech) was such a big deal was because Barack Obama, unlike McCain, had never really given a issue-by-issue, detail specific plan for how his administration would deal with Iraq.

The point of John McCain's article was not to outline his plan for Iraq, which he has done numerous times, but to point out the flaws in Obama's plan. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that debating an important issue seems to be a right that any presidential candidate should have.

Preventing McCain from debating Obama by telling him to make his article "mirror" Obama's is just as bad as telling him that they won't allow him to run his piece at all.

He also alludes to his plan several times in the piece.

Yes, alluding to plans is awesome in policy editorials.

Don't be foolish, don't just parrot something that isn't true. Don't believe that Obama has never detailed an Iraq plan. Just don't.
 

bob_arctor

Tough_Smooth
Tamanon said:
Don't be foolish, don't just parrot something that isn't true. Don't believe that Obama has never detailed an Iraq plan. Just don't.

This is just an awesomely honest response completely remiss of snark. Bravo.
 

dionysus

Yaldog
I never agree with NYT editorial page or much else in that biased paper, but they're completely within their rights to reject anything they want as it is in their OPINION section and thus represents the views of their editorial staff.

What is a legitimate complaint is the NYT using loaded language in the sections of the paper not titled Opinion.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
I'm sorry, but when the fuck has McCain ever stated any specifics in regards to how to win in Iraq?

His entire basis has been that "if we leave now, things will get worse."

Excuse me, but why should we listen to the people that have been wrong about every, single, goddamn, THING in regards to the Iraq war on what the plan should be to how to win it? They fucked up massively so many times, that the reason this war has even lasted this long is because of their complete ineptitude and constant fuck-ups.

Sorry, but McCain is not an authority on how to win a war. The one he served in? Guess what? That one was lost, too, due to incompetency and fuck-ups, and one that should have never been waged.

End this shit.
 

Tamanon

Banned
:lol "Does this make McCain look like one of those Japanese soldiers that held out on an island long after the war was over?"

Oh Chris Matthews.
 

KRS7

Member
Tamanon said:
:lol "Does this make McCain look like one of those Japanese soldiers that held out on an island long after the war was over?"

Oh Chris Matthews.
<----- That island to be exact

The guys name was Shoichi Yokoi and he was hiding there until 1972.

Coincidentally Today, July 21st, is the 64th anniversary of the American liberation of Guam in WWII. Unfortunately, a B-52 that was supposed to fly over the parade crashed.
 

Tamanon

Banned
BTW, is it just me, or did the McCain campaign make a huge mistake in their planning for this week? Instead of doing a bunch of economic tours and speeches, he's doing a tour of American History museums.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Tamanon said:
BTW, is it just me, or did the McCain campaign make a huge mistake in their planning for this week? Instead of doing a bunch of economic tours and speeches, he's doing a tour of American History museums.
Oh, there'a joke abuot McCain being at home in museums, but I'm not going to be the one to make it.
 
:lol @ Andrea Mitchell

One wonders if she expressed the same concern about military/journalistic credibility when the Pentagon was flooding the networks with "unbiased" former military officials to strengthen their arguments for continued presence in Iraq?

Of course, we all know the answer to that. She's just throwing a petty temper tantrum because she isn't allowed to shadow Obama.
 
....so I'd rate the chances of this happening about 7 out of 10:

Sources close to Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign are suggesting he will reveal the name of his vice presidential selection this week while Sen. Barack Obama is getting the headlines on his foreign trip. The name of McCain's running mate has not been disclosed, but Mitt Romney has led the speculation recently.

Novak
 
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