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PoliGAF Interim Thread of USA General Elections (DAWN OF THE VEEP)
- Thread starter Amir0x
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Mandark said:
Worth quoting for great justice. News only goes so far (i.e., when it's actually news).
Regarding the WSJ editorial about Obama being too skinny, the story behind it seems rather amusing, if not altogether unsurprising.
I was looking through Obama's official Youtube video archive and I found this little gem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmWlrtpqp40
It's from 06 which means it has probably been posted here before but it's the first time I saw it. Good stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmWlrtpqp40
It's from 06 which means it has probably been posted here before but it's the first time I saw it. Good stuff.
The problem I have with this energy debate is its largely argued on false assumptions.
No major power today, including China, is energy independent. There's a report actually released just recently showing China was the 2nd largest investor in renewable energy in 2008 and is set to take the top spot by 2009. This is the case because the report arguest China realized it cannot industrialize in the western model as pollution and depletion of natural resources will make it unsustainable. The result of this possible shift in Chinese industrialization away from dirty fuels, would mean a lot of things, not the least of which technological innovations, licenses, patents and manufacturing of new technologies coming out of the Chinese markets instead of in America.
Energy autarky is not viable. I find this ironic coming from McCain, a Republican free traded by his own policy positions.
Obama's steadfast refusal to accept that some drilling may need to happen, as part of a broader energy policy is also troubling.
It's very likely both candidates will moderate their positions once they get into power, but I don't see a real debate, I see one along ideological lines. With McCain playing the old fashioned conservative, despite having a liberal trade position, and Obama being the usual tree hugging democrat with no real solutions other than platitudes and ideas about renewable energy and the like. It's a long way to go from high dependence on fossil fuels to actually having energy independence (from fossil fuels).
One option not being discussed is the Nuclear option. Nearly every advanced economy use it, and use it safely. Including the greenest of the green E.U. states. The US needs to get back to building these things and stop letting the anti-nuclear terrorist groups scare the public into steering American foreign and energy policy into a false bargain between oil and still unproven and inefficient alternative sources.
No major power today, including China, is energy independent. There's a report actually released just recently showing China was the 2nd largest investor in renewable energy in 2008 and is set to take the top spot by 2009. This is the case because the report arguest China realized it cannot industrialize in the western model as pollution and depletion of natural resources will make it unsustainable. The result of this possible shift in Chinese industrialization away from dirty fuels, would mean a lot of things, not the least of which technological innovations, licenses, patents and manufacturing of new technologies coming out of the Chinese markets instead of in America.
Energy autarky is not viable. I find this ironic coming from McCain, a Republican free traded by his own policy positions.
Obama's steadfast refusal to accept that some drilling may need to happen, as part of a broader energy policy is also troubling.
It's very likely both candidates will moderate their positions once they get into power, but I don't see a real debate, I see one along ideological lines. With McCain playing the old fashioned conservative, despite having a liberal trade position, and Obama being the usual tree hugging democrat with no real solutions other than platitudes and ideas about renewable energy and the like. It's a long way to go from high dependence on fossil fuels to actually having energy independence (from fossil fuels).
One option not being discussed is the Nuclear option. Nearly every advanced economy use it, and use it safely. Including the greenest of the green E.U. states. The US needs to get back to building these things and stop letting the anti-nuclear terrorist groups scare the public into steering American foreign and energy policy into a false bargain between oil and still unproven and inefficient alternative sources.
artredis1980
Banned
justjohn said:
ur an idiot, read what obama said, and then weep.
and ur going to vote mccain or not vote at all because of off shore?
Nazgul_Hunter
Member
Really good Q&A live on CNN.com right now
I just remembered that the big attack against Kerry was that his military record was false (and not many people cared about it)... so the dems made the convention all about his military record. So I guess if the dems wanted to lose another election, they could devote this convention to how popular Obama is, and how he's the messiah.
Just kidding, that won't happen, Terry McLawlauffe isn't in charge anymore.
And with that, I'm off to Youngstown, one of the best places in Ohio to find democrats. Don't kill the internet when streams cross today, okay?
Just kidding, that won't happen, Terry McLawlauffe isn't in charge anymore.
And with that, I'm off to Youngstown, one of the best places in Ohio to find democrats. Don't kill the internet when streams cross today, okay?
McCain's mother was asked about the Celeb ad and she said the ad was stupid. :lol
They kind of are! Instead of holding it in a convention hall with private attendance of just party leaders/delegates they are holding it in a huge football stadium with free attendance from the publicthe disgruntled gamer said:
PhoenixDark
Banned
Cheebs said:
Obama had a bad couple weeks, went overseas and got some good press, then came back and his numbers dipped again. It's early so who knows. McCain is looking like he's betting the entire race on whether people accept his purely negative tone. Interesting Begala quote..
http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
So in lieu of Obama taking away offshore-drilling as a pet issue with which to attack him, will McCain simply go the standard flip-flop route? Obviously it's already worked on some people in this very thread.
siamesedreamer
Banned
Deku said:
McCain has proposed to build 45 new nuclear plants by 2030. Probably one of the very few things that could get me to vote for the guy. Too bad this proposal is DOA with this Congress though.
. . .
Frag, that's an interesting thought about the oil company balance sheets.
FitzOfRage
Member
Deku said:
Isn't that what he just said that some people here are freaking out about?
I'm completely opposed to offshore drilling but the Democrats picked the wrong issue not to roll over on. Any bill that is proposed needs to be a compromise and that, I beleive, is what Obama will want the Dems to do, not so much to give the GOP what they want but to turn the issue to their side . I bet anything that any compromise bill will either be defeated, filibustered, or vetoed by the president. Boehner will cry and weep for big oil but its they who will look like the bad guys.
We already know what some of the provisions would or should be including a "use it or loose it" policy, the oil companies sit on millions of acres of leases but they are unwilling to explore them or have actually caped reserves. US oil companies have increased production but the dirty little fact is that they have also increased the amount of oil that is getting exported and not sold domestically, we need a "U.S.A first" policy. Ultimately any drilling decision is up to the states (this is whats going to kill any bill) so we need to ensure that states that do find oil get incentives and assurances of the use of strict environmentally sound procedures.
like I said, there is no way the Republicans will move from they're "Drill, Drill, Drill" campaign after all they could give a rats ass how much we pay at the pump this is only another ploy to get McCain elected.
We already know what some of the provisions would or should be including a "use it or loose it" policy, the oil companies sit on millions of acres of leases but they are unwilling to explore them or have actually caped reserves. US oil companies have increased production but the dirty little fact is that they have also increased the amount of oil that is getting exported and not sold domestically, we need a "U.S.A first" policy. Ultimately any drilling decision is up to the states (this is whats going to kill any bill) so we need to ensure that states that do find oil get incentives and assurances of the use of strict environmentally sound procedures.
like I said, there is no way the Republicans will move from they're "Drill, Drill, Drill" campaign after all they could give a rats ass how much we pay at the pump this is only another ploy to get McCain elected.
maximum360
Member
After this week, it's obvious...
Deus Ex Machina
Member
"Consider" doesn't mean "do," regardless of how it's spun. Smart political move--JKBii said:
it neutralizes any planned attack by the McCain camp.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
As I was walking to the gym this morning, I saw the newspaper stand and the headline of the St. Pete Times that read "OBAMA SUPPORTS OFFSHORE DRILLING".
He shows his opposition to offshore drilling by passing an offshore drilling bill that will get nowhere. Remember its up to the states not the federal government to tell my state when, where and how they can drill if they choose too. Oh and whose the first to cry "state rights!"...thats right the republicans:lol
Frank the Great
Banned
Why must everything be so goddamn black and white with you all? He opposes offshore drilling, but is willing to include it in a compromise bill.
What is wrong with that? Should he vehemently oppose anything that includes anything the opposition likes? Remember, there are more people in this country than us raging liberals, and the majority of Americans support drilling anyway. Supporting a compromise bill with it included is not a big deal.
What is wrong with that? Should he vehemently oppose anything that includes anything the opposition likes? Remember, there are more people in this country than us raging liberals, and the majority of Americans support drilling anyway. Supporting a compromise bill with it included is not a big deal.
typhonsentra
Banned
Heya neighbor!Jason's Ultimatum said:
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
StoOgE said:
In a perfect world:
Obama said:
Obama said:
He's willing to play ball with the republicans by taking control of the issue. The Democrats in the house and senate are completely unorganized and went about it the wrong way by outright raising a wall on the issue giving the GOP fodder in an election year. Obama played their game on the FISA issue and now the GOP can't hang that over his head in November, he's doing the same here. What happened with FISA? They same bunch in here got all flustered but if history is any indicator that too, like the commisions act, will be overturned by the supreme court. Congress and the senate cannot overrule the constitution. Obama knows this so he played the game and scored a point.
Some here are just way to black and white and 2 dimensional and would rather follow the media's narrative than take a closer look. The Republicans are trying to score shallow political points for McCain and Obama has been pretty good at deflecting therm so far.
Some here are just way to black and white and 2 dimensional and would rather follow the media's narrative than take a closer look. The Republicans are trying to score shallow political points for McCain and Obama has been pretty good at deflecting therm so far.
SouthernDragon
Member
When people think "compromise" they really think "I'll drag my opponent kicking and screaming in to accepting my ideas."
typhonsentra
Banned
Doesn't this sound similar to that old 2005 Energy Bill? He used the same excuse for voting for that one, it seems we're already dumping a shitload of cash into alternative fuel research as it is.
Watching all this is pretty amusing to me. How dumb does one have to be to change their mind about Obama just because of the ridiculous ads this week? Either these daily polls are stupid or the majority of the public is...or both lol
I just can't believe anyone who says they're leaning towards McCain after this week was ever considering Obama in the first place..
I just can't believe anyone who says they're leaning towards McCain after this week was ever considering Obama in the first place..
typhonsentra
Banned
Speaking of daily polls, still tied....
Cloudy said:
what mccain is trying to do is polarize the electorate. mccain has more "lean mccain" than he does "strong mccain". these sorts of ads are designed to drive the leaners into strong supporters by making this campaign nasty.
so, obama leaners will become strong obama too, but obama already hzd more strong support than soft support. so obama gains less from a polarized electorate than mccain does.
mccain is worried there will be a Reagan like late swing to Obama and is trying to prevent it.
and yes, daily tracking polls are complete BS. Listen to Chuck Godd on them sometime, he doesnt even want NBC using it. and until a few weeks back they werent allowed to mention it on air. i guess the need for a daily talking point outweighed integrity.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Obama said:
McCain Camp said:
Well, if they were running for Prick Of The United States, McCain would win in a landslide.
Edit: More nuanced shit some of you can't handle:
Obama said:
:lol The spin from both sides in this thread is unbelievable.
McCain's celeb ad was awful, but the "chosen one" ad is interesting. In the primaries, Obama always seemed to do much better when he was playing a sort of underdog role in terms of positive/negative press coverage, the amount of coverage he got, and his polling numbers. Alot of candidates do better in the underdog role, but with Obama it seems exacerbated.
Im guessing that more people feel comfortable voting for him if the expectations and golden boy aura about him are diminished and McCain's ad might be devastating if it successfully feeds into that paranoia that folks are voting for Obama because he's somehow being forced upon them.
Obama is going to win this thing but maybe McCain's campaign staff isn't as incompetent as I thought they were.
McCain's celeb ad was awful, but the "chosen one" ad is interesting. In the primaries, Obama always seemed to do much better when he was playing a sort of underdog role in terms of positive/negative press coverage, the amount of coverage he got, and his polling numbers. Alot of candidates do better in the underdog role, but with Obama it seems exacerbated.
Im guessing that more people feel comfortable voting for him if the expectations and golden boy aura about him are diminished and McCain's ad might be devastating if it successfully feeds into that paranoia that folks are voting for Obama because he's somehow being forced upon them.
Obama is going to win this thing but maybe McCain's campaign staff isn't as incompetent as I thought they were.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Cheebs said:
Seems like many people don't understand what working across the isle means. They vote for Obama because he would be biparistan, but when he actually does it some get pissed and say they won't vote forf him.
siamesedreamer
Banned
All the bitching about this flip is ridiculous. Obama built his campaign on the idea that he would be a "post-partisan" president willing to work with the other side. That's exactly what he's doing here.
If you wanted someone who was going to stick it to the REPs damned the consequences, then you should have voted for Hillary. Frag and APF warned you.
If you wanted someone who was going to stick it to the REPs damned the consequences, then you should have voted for Hillary. Frag and APF warned you.
justjohn said:
Really? I mean, the first time I read his words, I interpreted them as meaning that he would support a bill with offshore drilling in it if it had other provisions he wanted, like more focus on alternative fuels. As in, he'd only sign a bill with offshore drilling on it to prevent gridlock. I don't think his position has changed at all, only that he's willing to compromise.
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