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PoliGAF Interim Thread of USA General Elections (DAWN OF THE VEEP)

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T

typhonsentra

Banned
Holy fuck Obama, what the hell happened? I'm pretty firmly against the Florida drilling, I dunno if this is a deal-breaker for my support but it makes me pretty nervous about what he's willing to compromise right now.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
typhonsentra said:
Holy fuck Obama, what the hell happened? I'm pretty firmly against the Florida drilling, I dunno if this is a deal-breaker for my support but it makes me pretty nervous about what he's willing to compromise right now.
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Good

god.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Maybe I read that wrong
"If, in order to get that passed, we have to compromise in terms of a careful, well thought-out drilling strategy that was carefully circumscribed to avoid significant environmental damage - I don't want to be so rigid that we can't get something done," Obama said.
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Compromise with whom? It's looking like the dems will get a filibuster free majority, but if they don't I fail to see why he's making this comment. Why comment on something you might (but more than likely might not) have to compromise over in the future
 
S

syllogism

Member
typhonsentra said:
Holy fuck Obama, what the hell happened? I'm pretty firmly against the Florida drilling, I dunno if this is a deal-breaker for my support but it makes me pretty nervous about what he's willing to compromise right now.
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What's exactly wrong with drilling?
 
S

syllogism

Member
PhoenixDark said:
Maybe I read that wrong


Compromise with whom? It's looking like the dems will get a filibuster free majority, but if they don't I fail to see why he's making this comment. Why comment on something you might (but more than likely might not) have to compromise over in the future
Click to expand...
This is an energy bill they could very well pass this autumn
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
Maybe I read that wrong


Compromise with whom? It's looking like the dems will get a filibuster free majority, but if they don't I fail to see why he's making this comment. Why comment on something you might (but more than likely might not) have to compromise over in the future
Click to expand...

Er....right now every single bill the Dems try to offer is being filibustered back. I think he's trying to at least let debate go forward on energy bills sometime before January.
 
T

teiresias

Member
PhoenixDark said:
Maybe I read that wrong


Compromise with whom? It's looking like the dems will get a filibuster free majority, but if they don't I fail to see why he's making this comment. Why comment on something you might (but more than likely might not) have to compromise over in the future
Click to expand...

Regardless, in a general election sense it's better to be seen as flexible and willing to work with the opposition party rather than some radical leftist liberal.
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
Drill.

When prices remain high - even after drilling - maybe the stubborn in this country will finally realize that drilling isn't the solution. Supply will continue to be tight with worldwide demand, and drilling will be perceived as a solution until we finally demonstrate that it isn't.
 
T

typhonsentra

Banned
syllogism said:
So basically your reasons are mostly selfish and this is a deal breaker?
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Give me a break. We all rode McCain hard for flipping on the environment and rightly so, the same should go for Obama.

As for me being selfish? Fuck you dude. Obama supporters here have claimed for weeks that drilling wouldn't provide any real benefits for months, now he's using car standards as an excuse and everyone should be cool with it?
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
I'm convinced half you need to be sent back to middle school and learn how to read. Again.
 
G

Gaborn

Member
typhonsentra said:
Give me a break. We all rode McCain hard for flipping on the environment and rightly so, the same should go for Obama.

As for me being selfish? Fuck you dude. Obama supporters here have claimed for weeks that drilling wouldn't provide any real benefits for months, now he's using car standards as an excuse and everyone should be cool with it?
Click to expand...

This is neogaf. People can forgive Obama for voting for the FISA bill, this is small potatoes.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Gaborn said:
This is neogaf. People can forgive Obama for voting for the FISA bill, this is small potatoes.
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Who the hell forgave Obama for his FISA stance?

Besides, you are the one supporting Bob Barr. You have no room to criticize others, considering where Bob Barr stood just 5 years ago on his positions and where he is now.
 
T

thefro

Member
Karma Kramer said:
Could we work together and make a small youtube video? They play these videos all the time on most network news shows... so if its creative and has a good message... could go a long way in helping.

We could definitely get it to get a lot of hits if we tried.
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We need 4chan meme power behind it.

Actually, they should take a break from Scientology for a couple months and start rickrolling McCain.
 
S

syllogism

Member
typhonsentra said:
Give me a break. We all rode McCain hard for flipping on the environment and rightly so, the same should go for Obama.

As for me being selfish? Fuck you dude. Obama supporters here have claimed for weeks that drilling wouldn't provide any real benefits for months, now he's using car standards as an excuse and everyone should be cool with it?
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Hey, I didn't. My issue with drilling is that it won't help, but it's perfectly fine to include it on a bill that does accomplish something else. Currently energy bills are stuck in congress and unless there is a compromise, this will continue.
 
G

Gaborn

Member
reilo said:
Who the hell forgave Obama for his FISA stance?

Besides, you are the one supporting Bob Barr. You have no room to criticize others, considering where Bob Barr stood just 5 years ago on his positions and where he is now.
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I'm not criticizing Obama for flipping, I do criticize the DIRECTION he flipped, he's wrong on FISA. Still though, everyone will flip on different positions, if I agree with their new position why should I criticize it? As Emerson said
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Out upon your guarded lips! Sew them up with pockthread, do. Else if you would be a man speak what you think today in words as hard as cannon balls, and tomorrow speak what tomorrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said today. Ah, then, exclaim the aged ladies, you shall be sure to be misunderstood! Misunderstood! It is a right fool's word. Is it so bad then to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.
Click to expand...
 
K

Kettch

Member
Ugh, even Olbermann has this off-shore oil drilling story wrong. It's obvious that Obama is saying that he doesn't support off-shore drilling and is simply willing to compromise on it to get other things done. I just cringe on how it'll be spun elsewhere.
 
K

Karma Kramer

Banned
Fuck fuck fuck...

This is getting out of hand. I don't know what Obama is doing wrong... but right now the MSM is just going to be fucking drilling him over this off-shore drilling as a flip flop.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Gaborn said:
I'm not criticizing Obama for flipping, I do criticize the DIRECTION he flipped, he's wrong on FISA. Still though, everyone will flip on different positions, if I agree with their new position why should I criticize it? As Emerson said
Click to expand...

No, you are criticizing Obama supporters and proclaiming that we forgave him on FISA. I'm asking you, who the hell forgave Obama on FISA?

I'm also stating, that you have no room to criticize Obama supporters for something as mundane as debating a non-issue as such as off-shore drilling, considering your candidate's history.

Karma Kramer said:
Fuck fuck fuck...

This is getting out of hand. I don't know what Obama is doing wrong... but right now the MSM is just going to be fucking drilling him over this off-shore drilling as a flip flop.
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reilo said:
For as much as Obama is campaigning for change, some things never change.

The media, their infinite bullshit, and how they bite hook, line, and sinker into every single fucking bait by the GOP.

I guess common sense is too much of a thing to hope for.
Click to expand...
 
G

Gaborn

Member
reilo said:
No, you are criticizing Obama supporters and proclaiming that we forgave him on FISA. I'm asking you, who the hell forgave Obama on FISA?

I'm also stating, that you have no room to criticize Obama supporters for something as mundane as debating a non-issue as such as off-shore drilling, considering your candidate's history.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I misunderstood you, I thought you were voting for a man that voted to give immunity to telecomm companies and unlimited authority to spy in similar manners. My mistake.

And as I've said, I'll vote for Barr for what he stands for, he's got no chance of winning but he's got a good chance to give a larger voice to libertarian thought.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
Gaborn said:
I'm sorry, I misunderstood you, I thought you were voting for a man that voted to give immunity to telecomm companies and unlimited authority to spy in similar manners. My mistake.

And as I've said, I'll vote for Barr for what he stands for, he's got no chance of winning but he's got a good chance to give a larger voice to libertarian thought.
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To be fair, aren't you voting for someone who voted to give the government authority to spy on its citizens and to define marriage as between man and a woman? :p
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Gaborn said:
I'm sorry, I misunderstood you, I thought you were voting for a man that voted to give immunity to telecomm companies and unlimited authority to spy in similar manners. My mistake.

And as I've said, I'll vote for Barr for what he stands for, he's got no chance of winning but he's got a good chance to give a larger voice to libertarian thought.
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As opposed to voting for the alternative?

And call me crazy, but I have a feeling that a civil rights lawyer won't do what Bush did, and most likely, manage to reverse most of the damage done by the Bush White House.
 
G

Gaborn

Member
Tamanon said:
To be fair, aren't you voting for someone who voted to give the government authority to spy on its citizens and to define marriage as between man and a woman? :p
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Not in this campaign he didn't :p. As I said, the difference between Barr and Obama is that Barr is a candidate who cannot win but can advance a larger cause I support. Obama CAN win and has various harmful positions that he's CURRENTLY advocating. In this campaign incidentally I have very little issue with Barr's current positions and areas of focus (on immigration I don't totally agree but I understand where he's coming from) so CURRENTLY yes, I can say I'm comfortable if he pulled off a miracle and won. But the FISA lover? Hell no.

Reilo - the alternative is other candidates that did not do so.

And also, the point about FISA is not whether you trust Obama more, it's whether ANY president should have the authority Obama voted for.
 
T

typhonsentra

Banned
I also want to clarify that I'll still probably vote for him as the alternative also supports drilling anyway, but right now I doubt I'll be donating any more time or money in supporting the guy.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
reilo said:
As opposed to voting for the alternative?

And call me crazy, but I have a feeling that a civil rights lawyer won't do what Bush did, and most likely, manage to reverse most of the damage done by the Bush White House.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I understand people doing hopeless things out of principle, but honestly Obama may not make libretarians do back flips but he'll at least defend the constitution most of the time.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Gaborn said:
Not in this campaign he didn't :p. As I said, the difference between Barr and Obama is that Barr is a candidate who cannot win but can advance a larger cause I support. Obama CAN win and has various harmful positions that he's CURRENTLY advocating. In this campaign incidentally I have very little issue with Barr's current positions and areas of focus (on immigration I don't totally agree but I understand where he's coming from) so CURRENTLY yes, I can say I'm comfortable if he pulled off a miracle and won. But the FISA lover? Hell no.

Reilo - the alternative is other candidates that did not do so.

And also, the point about FISA is not whether you trust Obama more, it's whether ANY president should have the authority Obama voted for.
Click to expand...

There is so much cognitive dissonance with this post that I don't even know where to begin. Therefor, I won't.

Obama is more pro-Constitution than Bob Barr can ever dream of being.
 
S

syllogism

Member
http://www.reuters.com/article/poli...Type=RSS&feedName=politicsNews&rpc=22&sp=true

Obama endorsed the efforts of a bipartisan group of 10 U.S. senators who unveiled legislation on Friday to increase domestic oil production and expand conservation and efforts to develop alternative energy.

The bill would require the government to open additional areas in the Gulf of Mexico for development and would allow drilling off the coasts of Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia if those states give permission.

A commission would be created to recommend areas to be opened for leasing in the future. Offshore production would still only be allowed 50 miles from the shore, and all the new oil produced would have to be used domestically.

"I welcome today's bipartisan effort as an important step in the process of reducing our dangerous dependence on foreign oil," Obama said in a statement.

"I remain skeptical that new offshore drilling will bring down gas prices in the short-term or significantly reduce our oil dependence in the long-term, though I do welcome the establishment of a process that will allow us to make future drilling decisions based on science and fact," he said.
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G

Gaborn

Member
reilo said:
There is so much cognitive dissonance with this post that I don't even know where to begin. Therefor, I won't.

Obama is more pro-Constitution than Bob Barr can ever dream of being.
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FISA is not a constitutional bill, it's a gross power grab by the executive branch in collusion with the Congress. It also gives sanction to felonious companies for fourth amendment violations
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
Door2Dawn said:
Science and fact states that offshore drilling will have no effect on gas prices,so why support it?
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Actually this might get kinda tricky and useful. It's part of a compromise bill. Then you start adding stuff onto the compromise bill that McCain or the Republicans would want to remove. Such as restricting the oil to only being sold domestically, or removing tax loopholes. Then make them oppose the bill.

Plus he still says he doesn't support drilling. But if it lets them get the compromise through....:p
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Tamanon said:
Wait....the WSJ article on Obama being skinny actually used YAHOO MESSAGE POSTS as a source?:lol
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APF: "What's wrong with that?"
 
T

TDG

Banned
Gaborn said:
he's got a good chance to give a larger voice to libertarian thought.
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Really? It doesn't appear that most of the country actually knows who he is... But whatever, good luck giving a larger voice to your ideal.
 
G

Gaborn

Member
the disgruntled gamer said:
Really? It doesn't appear that most of the country actually knows who he is... But whatever, good luck giving a larger voice to your ideal.
Click to expand...

Well, in general even giving Libertarian candidates a higher profile would be an accomplishment. How many people really knew the green party existed before Nader? Ron Paul being very much described as a libertarian helped, and Barr running as a Libertarian (and being relatively high profile as a former congressman even though much of the public doesn't know him) is beneficial to that goal.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
polyh3dron said:
I can't wait for Countdown tonight... Olbermann's going to flip out, I'm calling it.
Click to expand...
sizr2.jpg
 
T

TDG

Banned
Gaborn said:
Well, in general even giving Libertarian candidates a higher profile would be an accomplishment. How many people really knew the green party existed before Nader? Ron Paul being very much described as a libertarian helped, and Barr running as a Libertarian (and being relatively high profile as a former congressman even though much of the public doesn't know him) is beneficial to that goal.
Click to expand...
Even if people have heard of the green party thanks to Nader... do you think that anyone who isn't a political junkie knows what the green party actually stands for? Even if people hear the name Libertarian, that doesn't mean they're going to actually know or care about what they stand for.

I'm honestly not trying to be mean, I'm just saying... considering the state of politics in America, to think that a party other than the GOP or Dems will actually get a lot of attention seems as far-fetched as Libertarianism itself.
 
A

adamsappel

Member
Door2Dawn said:
Science and fact states that offshore drilling will have no effect on gas prices,so why support it?
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I heard on NPR today that 60% of Floridians now support offshore drilling. I imagine that has a little to do with it.

I also think he's saying he's fine with throwing the GOP an offshore-drilling bone if it means the rest of an energy bill can get passed.
 
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