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PoliGAF Interim Thread of USA General Elections (DAWN OF THE VEEP)

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Tim Kaine Vetting

As mayor, Kaine was credited with helping to create and implement the gun law known as Project Exile.

In May 2006, Governor Kaine announced his plan to conserve 400,000 acres (1,600 km²) of Virginia real property from development before the end of his administration as Governor of Virginia.[12]

In June 2006, Kaine signed an executive order banning smoking in all government buildings and state-owned cars.[16] He also announced that Virginia will be the first state in the Union to digitize records from the Civil War Era Freedman's Bureau. This will open up research in African-American history after the Civil War.[17]

Tim Kaine has signaled his support for vaccinating sixth-grade girls in Virginia with the HPV vaccine. In 2007, Virginia, along with twenty other states, was considering a law to expand such vaccinations.

When news of the Virginia Tech massacre broke, Kaine canceled a trade mission to Japan and India to attend to the situation. Kaine said he would appoint a panel of independent law enforcement officials to examine what the university knew about the student responsible for the massacre, which killed 32 people. The commission, led by a former state police chief and former governor and Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge, began work on April 28, 2007 and issued their findings and recommendations on August 30, 2007. On April 30, 2007 Governor Kaine signed an executive order instructing state agencies to step up efforts to block gun sales to people involuntarily committed to inpatient and outpatient mental health treatment centers.

Despite his personal opposition to capital punishment, often cited during the 2005 campaign by both sides, he has so far overseen eight executions as governor as of July 2008. He has vetoed five death penalty expansion bills although some of the vetoes were overturned,[21] and opposed the electric chair as an option.[22] On June 9, 2008, Kaine commuted the death sentence of Percy Levar Walton to life in prison without parole.[23]

Tim Kaine has stated he has a "faith-based opposition to abortion,"[24] but he opposes overturning Roe v. Wade. He supports restrictions on abortion, such as requiring parental consent and banning partial-birth abortions in cases where the mother's health is not at risk.[25]

In the 2006 Senate election, Kaine supported Democratic Senate candidate Jim Webb.[26] Kaine also opposed an amendment to the Virginia Constitution that would define marriage as that between one man and one woman, though he has publicly stated that he personally opposes same-sex marriage.[27]
 

GhaleonEB

Member
woeds said:
I had forgotten that he had voted for that. Considering how often Obama says Iraq is a war that "should never have been authorized or waged" as a way of hitting McCain for his vote (and in the primary, Edwards and Clinton), I don't see how he could pick Bayh.
 
Bayh is equivalent to low sodium Saltine crackers (which alone doesn't do much for you). Bayh could definitely help in Indiana and some of the rust belt states though. His "smiling white guy boring" personality could deflate some of the "elitism/exotic/he's not one of us" banter that the republicans have been throwing around lately.

Bayh may not be an attack dog but from what I've seen in his interviews he may be able to deflate some of the aggressive attacks by his opponents.
 
Kathleen Sebilius Vetting

In 2001 Sebelius was named as one of Governing Magazine's Public Officials of the Year while she was serving as Kansas Insurance Commissioner.[13]

In November 2005, Time named Sebelius as one of the five best governors in America, praising her for eliminating a $1.1 billion debt she inherited, ferreting out waste in state government, and strongly supporting public education — all without raising taxes, although she proposed raising sales, property, and income taxes[14]. Also praised was her bipartisan approach to governing, a useful trait in a state where Republicans have usually controlled the Legislature.[15]

In February 2006, the White House Project named Sebelius one of its "8 in '08", a group of eight female politicians who could possibly run and/or be elected president in 2008.[16]

During the 2004 election, Sebelius was named as a potential running mate for John Kerry.

In the aftermath of Kerry's defeat, some pundits named Sebelius as a potential candidate for the Democratic nomination for President in 2008.[18]As of Barack Obama's clinching of the nomination in June 2008, speculation remains that she will be a contender for the vice-presidential slot on the Democratic ticket this year.[

Sebelius is a former chair of the Democratic Governors Association, a popular launchpad for those with national political ambitions.[27] In 2007, she traveled to Istanbul to attend the annual Bilderberg Group meeting.[28]

Sebelius describes herself as personally pro-life, but opposed to efforts to eliminate or reduce abortions primarily by criminalizing abortion procedures.[29] Sebelius' office states that abortions have declined 8.5 percent during her tenure as governor.

Sebelius has been endorsed by Planned Parenthood and they have conducted fundraising activity on her behalf.

Early in the term, Sebelius made education funding her top priority. Education funding reached a breaking point in the summer of 2005 when the Kansas Supreme Court ordered the Legislature to increase K–12 funding.[42]

Sebelius has also put environmental concerns at the top of her agenda. She pushed for more widespread recycling efforts across the state. [43] In addition, she vetoed bills authorizing the construction of coal-fired power plants on three separate occasions.

Sebelius has said she supports Kansans' right to own firearms, but does not believe a broad concealed carry law would make them safer: "I don't believe allowing people to carry concealed handguns into sporting events, shopping malls, grocery stores, or the workplace would be good public policy. And to me the likelihood of exposing children to loaded handguns in their parents' purses, pockets and automobiles is simply unacceptable."[46]

Sebelius did not support an April 2005 amendment to the Kansas Constitution that made same-sex marriage in the state unconstitutional.

Sebelius is an opponent of capital punishment[5
 

tanod

when is my burrito
maximum360 said:
Bayh is equivalent to low sodium Saltine crackers (which alone doesn't do much for you). Bayh could definitely help in Indiana and some of the rust belt states though. His "smiling white guy boring" personality could deflate some of the "elitism/exotic/he's not one of us" banter that the republicans have been throwing around lately.

Bayh may not be an attack dog but from what I've seen in his interviews he may be able to deflate some of the aggressive attacks by his opponents.

So, if picked, he would serve as a foil to Obama much like Al Gore did to Clinton. Somebody who is competent but won't overshadow and is pretty innocuous as far as his positions go.
 
GhaleonEB said:
I had forgotten that he had voted for that. Considering how often Obama says Iraq is a war that "should never have been authorized or waged" as a way of hitting McCain for his vote (and in the primary, Edwards and Clinton), I don't see how he could pick Bayh.

I think as long as Bayh does the thing Hillary could not do (at least for some time) which is admit that voting for the war was a mistake, it will not be an issue. I don't think people held it against Edwards, but people just got tired about hearing about "Mills" and "Neocons".
 
Obama in 2005 after Katrina said:
I agree with the President's decision to release oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve to help replenish supply shortages resulting from Hurricane Katrina. Nearly all oil and natural gas production in the Gulf of Mexico has been shut down, and releasing this oil will help increase production and stabilize prices. However, I do believe that this tragedy makes it very clear that that the reserve should only be used in the event of an emergency, and that we shouldn't be tapping the reserve to provide a small, short-term decrease in gas prices.

Obama last month said:
I do not believe that we should use the strategic oil reserves at this point. I have said and, in fact, supported a congressional resolution that said that we should suspend putting more oil into the strategic oil reserve, but the strategic oil reserve, I think, has to be reserved for a genuine emergency. You have a situation, let's say, where there was a major oil facility in Saudi Arabia that was destroyed as a consequence of terrorist acts, and you suddenly had huge amounts of oil taken out of the world market, we wouldn't just be seeing $4-a-gallon oil. We could see a situation where entire sectors of the country had no oil to function at all. And that's what the strategic oil reserve has to be for.

Obama today said:
I also believe that in the short-term, as we transition to renewable energy, we can and should increase our domestic production of oil and natural gas. But we should start by telling the oil companies to drill on the 68 million acres they currently have access to but haven't touched. And if they don't, we should require them to give up their leases to someone who will. We should invest in the technology that can help us recover more from existing oil fields, and speed up the process of recovering oil and gas resources in shale formations in Montana and North Dakota; Texas and Arkansas and in parts of the West and Central Gulf of Mexico. We should sell 70 million barrels of oil from our Strategic Petroleum Reserve for less expensive crude, which in the past has lowered gas prices within two weeks. Over the next five years, we should also lease more of the National Petroleum Reserve in Alaska for oil and gas production. And we should also tap more of our substantial natural gas reserves and work with the Canadian government to finally build the Alaska Natural Gas Pipeline, delivering clean natural gas and creating good jobs in the process.

You just can't make this stuff up...
 
tanod said:
So, if picked, he would serve as a foil to Obama much like Al Gore did to Clinton. Somebody who is competent but won't overshadow and is pretty innocuous as far as his positions go.

Bayh I think is the typical, "do no harm" type of guy. David Schuster also alluded to Bayh having the charisma of something like that stale bread.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
maximum360 said:
I think as long as Bayh does the thing Hillary could not do (at least for some time) which is admit that voting for the war was a mistake, it will not be an issue. I don't think people held it against Edwards, but people just got tired about hearing about "Mills" and "Neocons".
Personally, I don't think anyone who voted in favor of the war has any business being on the ticket.
 
siamesedreamer said:
You just can't make this stuff up...

u even know what he is saying?

He is saying, sell 70 million drums of national reserve oil and get back less expensive crude oil. Sell Oil to get oil. you are not using the national reserve oils for ur own, ur using to get even more oil out of it.
 
Patrick Leahy vetting

eflecting Vermont's former reputation as a Republican stronghold, Leahy is the only Democrat to be elected to the Senate by Vermont, and one of only three Democrats to represent Vermont at the federal level since the end of the Civil War.

The 1998 election was noteworthy in that Leahy had the endorsement of his Republican opponent, Fred Tuttle. Tuttle was the lead actor in the movie Man With A Plan, shot in Vermont, in which a farmer decides to run for the House. Tuttle told voters to vote for Leahy because he didn't want to move to Washington D.C. Leahy was touched by this gesture; he once said that Tuttle was the "distilled essence of Vermonthood".

On June 22, 2004, Leahy and Vice President Dick Cheney participated in the US Senate class photo. After the vote, Cheney was only talking to Republicans. When Leahy asked him to come over and talk to the Democrats, Cheney upbraided Leahy for the Senator's recent excoriations of Halliburton's activities in Iraq. At the end of the exchange, Cheney told Leahy, "Fuck yourself."[3] [4] Leahy joked about the incident in 2007 when he escorted Bernie Sanders, Vermont's newly-elected senator, to the well of the Senate where he was sworn in by Cheney: "When it comes to the vice president, it's always better to be sworn in than to be sworn at".[5] For a time, liberals made sport of the exchange with the expression "Go Cheney yourself!"

In March 2004, Leahy and Orrin Hatch introduced the Pirate Act backed by the RIAA. In July 2004, Leahy and Hatch introduced the INDUCE Act. Both were aimed at combating copyright infringement

Leahy is a published photographer.

A big fan of the Batman comics, Leahy lent his voice in an episode of Batman: The Animated Series as a Governor in a western tale involving Ra's al Ghul and Jonah Hex. He also appeared as a cameo in Batman and Robin, and has another cameo in the 2008 film The Dark Knight.[10] Leahy's character, a guest at a fund raiser for Harvey Dent, is grabbed by The Joker, who tells Leahy's character that he reminds him of his father. Leahy wrote the introduction to the collected edition of Green Arrow: the Archer's Quest and the foreword to the first volume of The Dark Knight Archives, a hardcover reprinting of the first four issues of the Batman comic book.

Also a fan of U2, Leahy has a picture mounted on the wall of his office of himself, his wife, President Bill Clinton and Bono. On it, Bono has drawn an arrow pointed to himself, with the caption, "Would you trust this man with your children?"

n a 1994 interview on ABC News, Leahy claimed that, while attending Georgetown Law School, he obtained tickets to see The Beatles' first full U.S. concert, at the Washington Coliseum, inviting a classmate, who declined, saying that the Beatles were a fad. Leahy declined to identify the classmate, but added, "He hasn't gone on to become a very good lawyer, either."
 

Gaborn

Member
I'm not sure that Bayh helps Obama but I don't believe he hurts him either, and in Obama's case I think that's a good thing. Obama's biggest strength is his charisma his intelligence, and his charm, very much like Bill Clinton he has a magnetism and a connection with his supporters that is really quite astonishing. Bayh is a solid choice in terms of qualifications, and he won't suck any of the oxygen from Obama's presence so he's pretty decent from that perspective I think.
 

Gremmie4

Member
GhaleonEB said:
Personally, I don't think anyone who voted in favor of the war has any business being on the ticket.

I think the same here. I think it just sends the wrong signal to people because Obama is basing his foreign policy on his good judgment with the Iraq War but he will take a VP that showed very poor judgment for the same thing. It is something McCain will hit on and it will be effective to the average person.
 
GhaleonEB said:
Personally, I don't think anyone who voted in favor of the war has any business being on the ticket.

I guess it's an argument of ideology vs. winning. Obama is by far a pragmatist and so he'll pick someone most likely to give him a win in November.
 

HylianTom

Banned
I'm wondering if going to Indiana is a head-fake from the Obama campaign. Kerry named his running mate in Pennsylvania, and it seems like the Obama team would enjoy adding to the drama/excitement with this sort of surprise.
 

TDG

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
Personally, I don't think anyone who voted in favor of the war has any business being on the ticket.
I've got to disagree. I think it's very closed-minded to say that only people who voted this way on this bill from 5 years ago can possibly be on the ticket.

As long as Bayh admits that he made a mistake, I think he's okay. And I don't really buy into the argument that if Obama picks a running mate who voted for the war, it hurts his argument that he didn't support the war from the start. That seems silly. In a debate, when Obama's talking about having the judgement to know that the Iraq War was a bad idea from the start, I don't think "well, your running mate this and that" is going to be much of a rebuttal.
 

tanod

when is my burrito
maximum360 said:
I guess it's an argument of ideology vs. winning. Obama is by far a pragmatist and so he'll pick someone most likely to give him a win in November.

Obama has stated that the most important quality of a VP is one who will help him govern. I think Bayh's ability to stay on message (isn't gaffe prone) and his executive experience satisfies the no-drama-Obama campaign policy and the governing question.

As much as I don't like his vote on the war, it might have the benefit of highlighting Obama's position on it that much more which I think will help him.

"People don't vote for VP."
 

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
Tyrone Slothrop said:
no no, he has to do biden before he quits. its only fair


JOE BIDEN:
Pros: one of the Senate's oldest and most respected experts in the field of Joe Biden; vast bullshit reserve could be tapped for its methane, powering nation for decades; fondness for partition and ethnic cleansing could be a valuable asset during the Second American Civil War of 2013
Cons: as a wholly-owned subsidiary of DuPont, may be ineligible to hold office
 
Patrick Leahy info said:
A big fan of the Batman comics, Leahy lent his voice in an episode of Batman: The Animated Series as a Governor in a western tale involving Ra's al Ghul and Jonah Hex. He also appeared as a cameo in Batman and Robin, and has another cameo in the 2008 film The Dark Knight.[10] Leahy's character, a guest at a fund raiser for Harvey Dent, is grabbed by The Joker, who tells Leahy's character that he reminds him of his father. Leahy wrote the introduction to the collected edition of Green Arrow: the Archer's Quest and the foreword to the first volume of The Dark Knight Archives, a hardcover reprinting of the first four issues of the Batman comic book.

sure, the guy's a celebrity...but is he ready to lead?
 

TDG

Banned
Gremmie4 said:
It is something McCain will hit on and it will be effective to the average person.
Bullshit. I don't buy that for one second. I don't think McCain will be wanting to bring up the Iraq War, seeing as he himself voted for it, and I don't think the average person is going to be deciding not to vote for Obama because his running mate did this-or-that five years ago. Sorry, not buying it.

I think VPs help out regionally, and they can help bring a bit of balance to a ticket. When people go to the polls, I think they're 90% thinking about the candidate, and less than 10% thinking about the running mate.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
the disgruntled gamer said:
I've got to disagree. I think it's very closed-minded to say that only people who voted this way on this bill from 5 years ago can possibly be on the ticket.

As long as Bayh admits that he made a mistake, I think he's okay. And I don't really buy into the argument that if Obama picks a running mate who voted for the war, it hurts his argument that he didn't support the war from the start. That seems silly. In a debate, when Obama's talking about having the judgement to know that the Iraq War was a bad idea from the start, I don't think "well, your running mate this and that" is going to be much of a rebuttal.
I think it cuts to the heart of Obama's campaign, which is that he's got the right judgment to deal with the kind of issues that are front and center right now. By picking someone who voted to authorized the catastrophe that is the Iraq war, he's basically ceding the judgment argument; one he won't be able to make about McCain any longer. I think it would really hurt Obama's chances.

I'm not a big fan of litmus tests, but that vote is one for me. It was a politicized vote, and those who voted in favor of it helped do great damage to Iraq and the US.
 
the disgruntled gamer said:
I've got to disagree. I think it's very closed-minded to say that only people who voted this way on this bill from 5 years ago can possibly be on the ticket.

As long as Bayh admits that he made a mistake, I think he's okay. And I don't really buy into the argument that if Obama picks a running mate who voted for the war, it hurts his argument that he didn't support the war from the start. That seems silly. In a debate, when Obama's talking about having the judgement to know that the Iraq War was a bad idea from the start, I don't think "well, your running mate this and that" is going to be much of a rebuttal.
I agree.
 
Mandark said:
JOE BIDEN:
Pros: one of the Senate's oldest and most respected experts in the field of Joe Biden; vast bullshit reserve could be tapped for its methane, powering nation for decades; fondness for partition and ethnic cleansing could be a valuable asset during the Second American Civil War of 2013

haha nice
 

thefro

Member
PhoenixDark said:
Bayh is more conservative than Edwards so they're actually pretty different. But Bayh was a successful governor and has never cheated on his wife. He gets my recommendation vote

Bayh's more liberal than Edwards was in 2002/early 2003.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
artredis1980 said:
u even know what he is saying?

He is saying, sell 70 million drums of national reserve oil and get back less expensive crude oil. Sell Oil to get oil. you are not using the national reserve oils for ur own, ur using to get even more oil out of it.

Sounds like a good idea to me. Surprised to see a junior member school a long timer here.
 
Bruce Wayne vetting

In his secret identity, Batman is Bruce Wayne, a wealthy businessman who lives in Gotham City. To the world at large, Bruce Wayne is often seen as an irresponsible, superficial playboy who lives off his family's personal fortune (amassed when Bruce's family invested in Gotham real estate before the city was a bustling metropolis)[76] and the profits of Wayne Enterprises, a major private technology firm that he inherits. However, Wayne is also known for his contributions to charity, notably through his Wayne Foundation charity.[77] Bruce creates the playboy public persona to aid in throwing off suspicion of his secret identity, often acting dim-witted and self-absorbed to further the act

Unlike many superheroes, Batman has no superpowers and instead relies on "his own scientific knowledge, detective skills, and athletic prowess."[19] Batman is physically at the peak of human ability in dozens of areas, notably martial arts, acrobatics, strength, escape artistry, and occasionally, in some media portrayals, torture techniques.[citation needed] Intellectually, he is just as peerless[citation needed]; Batman is one of the world's greatest scientists, engineers, criminologists, and tacticians,[citation needed] as well as a master of disguise, often gathering information under the identity of Matches Malone. He is regarded as one of the DC Universe's greatest detectives.[82] Rather than simply outfighting his opponents, Batman often uses cunning and planning to outwit them.[citation needed] In Grant Morrison's first storyline in JLA, Superman describes Batman as "the most dangerous man on Earth," able to defeat a team of superpowered aliens all by himself in order to rescue his imprisoned teammates
 

Gaborn

Member
artredis1980 said:
u even know what he is saying?

He is saying, sell 70 million drums of national reserve oil and get back less expensive crude oil. Sell Oil to get oil. you are not using the national reserve oils for ur own, ur using to get even more oil out of it.

Oil doesn't exist in a cost vacuum. One of the costs, and a big one, is shipping. Why should we pay to ship back crude oil, refine it, and THEN ship it back to gas stations and the like? Not to mention shipping already refined oil overseas. In fact, the entire tariff system Keynesians advocate is based on the idea that shipping goods over seas and importing from overseas is more expensive in the long run because of international taxes and tariffs.
 

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
Mandark said:
JOE BIDEN:
Pros: one of the Senate's oldest and most respected experts in the field of Joe Biden; vast bullshit reserve could be tapped for its methane, powering nation for decades; fondness for partition and ethnic cleansing could be a valuable asset during the Second American Civil War of 2013
Cons: as a wholly-owned subsidiary of DuPont, may be ineligible to hold office
whoa. feel the hate!
 

HylianTom

Banned
Dax01 said:
McCain will pick The Riddler.

I'd like Obama to pick The Snuggler. :D

snuggler.jpg
 

Gremmie4

Member
the disgruntled gamer said:
Bullshit. I don't buy that for one second. I don't think McCain will be wanting to bring up the Iraq War, seeing as he himself voted for it, and I don't think the average person is going to be deciding not to vote for Obama because his running mate did this-or-that five years ago. Sorry, not buying it.

I think VPs help out regionally, and they can help bring a bit of balance to a ticket. When people go to the polls, I think they're 90% thinking about the candidate, and less than 10% thinking about the running mate.

Knowing how dumb the average person is, I have no faith in them to not be swayed when McCain says something like "Obama claims to have great judgment about the Iraq War and foreign policy issues yet he chose a VP that made the same decision on the war that I did." Seeing how Obama already trails McCain in the Iraq and foreign policy departments, I don't think Bayh will help his argument at all. Will it cost him the election? Probably not, but I think Bayh weighs down his Iraq argument quite a bit and dumb people will fall for the ads McCain will release.
 
Gaborn said:
Oil doesn't exist in a cost vacuum. One of the costs, and a big one, is shipping. Why should we pay to ship back crude oil, refine it, and THEN ship it back to gas stations and the like? Not to mention shipping already refined oil overseas. In fact, the entire tariff system Keynesians advocate is based on the idea that shipping goods over seas and importing from overseas is more expensive in the long run because of international taxes and tariffs.

its cheaper to get refined oil from foreign countries than here.
 

TDG

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
I think it cuts to the heart of Obama's campaign, which is that he's got the right judgment to deal with the kind of issues that are front and center right now. By picking someone who voted to authorized the catastrophe that is the Iraq war, he's basically ceding the judgment argument; one he won't be able to make about McCain any longer. I think it would really hurt Obama's chances.
But the thing is, Obama is running for president, not Bayh. Obama is the one people are voting for or not voting for, not Bayh. Obama is the guy who's judgement we question, not Bayh. So Obama can still hammer McCain on the judgement because, in the end, this race is Obama against McCain.

I mean, what's McCain going to respond with, "Well, your running mate voted for the war too?" Nobody will care, because everyone knows that this is Obama against McCain, and the people who tag along are of little importance.

People don't vote for VP.
 

Gaborn

Member
artredis1980 said:
its cheaper to get refined oil from foreign countries than here.

I'm not disputing the cost of buying it, just as I wouldn't dispute the cost of say, buying prescription drugs in Canada being cheaper. What I'm questioning if that's still true if you factor in the cost of shipping it in, and shipping the oil in the SPR out.
 
Mumei said:
I just can't think of any Democrat in state politics that I coul see running for and winning, and I'd be terrified of someone like Pence managing to win his seat.

Theoretically Long Thompson could win, but I hear that ain't all that likely. I was going to say something about Pence being the most likely replacement on the Republican side. Certainly would be a replacement that would likely be able to win in a special election.
 
the disgruntled gamer said:
But the thing is, Obama is running for president, not Bayh. Obama is the one people are voting for or not voting for, not Bayh. Obama is the guy who's judgement we question, not Bayh. So Obama can still hammer McCain on the judgement because, in the end, this race is Obama against McCain.

I mean, what's McCain going to respond with, "Well, your running mate voted for the war too?" Nobody will care, because everyone knows that this is Obama against McCain, and the people who tag along are of little importance.

People don't vote for VP.
It's true that people don't vote for VP. But don't you have to take into consideration that if this presidential candidate somehow dies (God forbid), then would you want this VP running as president? Even though it is unlikely?
 

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
scorcho said:
whoa. feel the hate!


Like I said, it's shamefully stolen.


That said, Biden is basically Realist Lieberman: he doesn't care that much about domestic policy and he's got an inflated ego based on the idea that he alone can explain foreign policy to the ignoramuses.

Which is great when he's smacking down someone who deserves it, like the canonical quip about Rudy. But he doesn't have the empathy that I like to see in my liberal politicians, and I'm not super keen on his FP either.

He has a tendency to say something very true about some international situation, then follow it up with a plan that wildly overstates America's ability to micromanage other countries' affairs. The soft partition of Iraq is the best example of this, along with his plan to reform Pakistan's government by targeting our aid money better.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
artredis1980 said:
thats only CNN's headline. he doesnt want to to tap to use

And everybody is ripping Obama on his flip-flop on the national reserve too. He is getting killed right now on the comments section.
 

TDG

Banned
Dax01 said:
It's true that people don't vote for VP. But don't you have to take into consideration that if this presidential candidate somehow dies (God forbid), then would you want this VP running as president? Even though it is unlikely?
I don't believe that because Bayh made a bad decision in 2002, he would make a bad candidate/president. I mean, you have to remember, a LOT of people supported the war in 2002. Most of the country did. Hillary Clinton did. John Edwards did. John Kerry did. Evan Bayh did. And most importantly, John McCain did, and Barack Obama didn't, and right now that's what's important.
 
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