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PoliGAF Interim Thread of USA General Elections (DAWN OF THE VEEP)

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S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
in Biden's defense, considering the level of sectarian strife at the time a partition was a solid option, though it presupposed that an autonomous, oil-rich Kurdish region would be allowed by the rival sects (not) and Turkey (mondo not).

i once thought it'd be the best option too. thankfully, i realize now how awesome the surge was since it gave Shiites the breathing room after the fact to solidify their house-by-house Sunni purges.
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
siamesedreamer said:
Not when its for the sole purpose of covering Pelosi's ass.
Click to expand...
in Obama's defense, back in the day it sure was a nice one...

edit: also, isn't this what you want? a president who reaches across the aisles and doesn't invoke the dreaded power of the 'SUPERMAJORITY!!!!'?
 
A

artredis1980

Banned
according to CNN veepstackes

VEEPSTAKES: Who will Obama choose as his VP running mate?
STOCK CURRENT VALUE TODAY
Kathleen Sebelius $24.29 $1.86
Evan Bayh $20.96 $5.19
Tim Kaine $17.71 $0.42
Hillary Clinton $12.86 $-2.79
Joe Biden $9.11 $-1.63
Chet Edwards $8.11 $-1.85
Jack Reed $1.87 $1.73
Bill Richardson $1.83 $-2.33
Wesley Clark $0.80 $0.07
Chuck Hagel $0.64 $-0.61
Other $0.59 $0.09
John Edwards $0.56 $0.32
Jim Webb $0.26 $0.23
Sam Nunn $0.14 $-0.25
Colin Powell $0.05 unchanged
Claire McCaskill $0.02 $-0.19
Ed Rendell $0.02 $-0.08
Michael Bloomberg $0.01 $-0.08
William Cohen $0.01 unchanged
Tom Daschle $0.01 unchanged
Al Gore $0.01 unchanged
Lee Hamilton $0.01 unchanged
Janet Napolitano $0.01 $0.01
Bill Nelson $0.01 unchanged
Timothy Roemer $0.01 $-0.05
Chris Dodd $0.00 $-0.02






VEEPSTAKES: Who will McCain choose as his VP running mate?
STOCK CURRENT VALUE TODAY
Mitt Romney $38.17 $4.59
Tim Pawlenty $19.34 $-1.69
Mike Huckabee $16.88 $-1.40
Eric Cantor $6.56 $-2.96
Tom Ridge $5.47 $4.22
Sarah Palin $5.27 $-5.74
Charlie Crist $2.48 $-0.12
Rob Portman $0.92 $0.32
Colin Powell $0.89 $0.78
Bobby Jindal $0.87 $0.34
Kay Bailey Hutchison $0.82 $0.74
Other $0.52 $0.29
Joe Lieberman $0.36 $0.12
John Thune $0.35 $0.13
Mark Sanford $0.28 $0.22
Lindsey Graham $0.14 $-0.06
Condoleezza Rice $0.14 $0.03
William Cohen $0.08 $0.07
Carly Fiorina $0.07 $0.01
Michael Bloomberg $0.06 $0.04
Sam Brownback $0.05 $0.04
Mel Martinez $0.05 $-0.03
Linda Lingle $0.04 $0.03
Sonny Perdue $0.02 unchanged
John Huntsman $0.02 $0.01
Meg Whitman $0.01 $-0.01
 
M

Mumei

Member
Skiptastic said:
Theoretically Long Thompson could win, but I hear that ain't all that likely. I was going to say something about Pence being the most likely replacement on the Republican side. Certainly would be a replacement that would likely be able to win in a special election.
Click to expand...

Ack.

Looking at recent opinion polling, she loses 35 - 53, 36 - 50, 45 - 50, 35 - 51, and 39 - 46, from polling done in late May through late July. Even in the earlier polling, where she won some, it was mostly by razor thin margins...
 
M

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
scorcho: That's sort of what I mean.

While a ton of people were still framing it as "extremists vs. moderates" Biden was recognizing the three-way ethnic struggle and the oil distribution problem.

But his solution was to try to impose a US-determined order in Iraq, when it was clearly out of our power and when many or most Iraqis were really suspicious of partition. Reading Marc Lynch at the time, I got the sense that Iraqi public opinion wouldn't allow anything like his plan to happen.


For that matter, Iraqi preferences always seem to get left out of Iraq policy, which is really fucked up. Then when they actually do get expressed McCain, Krauthammer, and a bushel of Kagans are quick to dismiss them.
 
T

tanod

when is my burrito
I thought the Kurds in the North had always supported separating from the Sunni/Shiites going so far as to start calling themselves Kurdistan.

@mandark: My missive about Bayh/Edwards has a lot more to do with my almost complete lack of knowledge about Bayh rather than my late-onset (post-primary) disdain for John Edwards.
 
R

Rur0ni

Member
tanod said:
I thought the Kurds in the North had always supported separating from the Sunni/Shiites going so far as to start calling themselves Kurdistan.
Click to expand...
What the Kurds want is largely irrelevant.
 
G

Gaborn

Member
Rur0ni said:
What the Kurds want is largely irrelevant.
Click to expand...

That attitude caused the Troubles in Northern Ireland, the constant ethnic conflict in Kashmir, and was a major precursor to the Kosovo War.
 
R

Rur0ni

Member
Gaborn said:
That attitude caused the Troubles in Northern Ireland, the constant ethnic conflict in Kashmir, and was a major precursor to the Kosovo War.
Click to expand...
Hey I'm just pointing out Turkish and Shiite/Sunni sentiment (even Iranian). From what I've read, no one (in a geographic location near the Kurds) really gives a damn about them.

I'm just ready to wash America's hands of the region at this point.
 
G

Gaborn

Member
Rur0ni said:
Hey I'm just pointing out Turkish and Shiite/Sunni sentiment (even Iranian). From what I've read, no one (in a geographic location near the Kurds) really gives a damn about them.

I'm just ready to wash America's hands of the region at this point.
Click to expand...

Oh, I am as well absolutely. It's going to be a sad situation, but I view it as inevitable that eventually the Kurds are going to be autonomous, they practically speaking are at this point anyway, Baghdad really can't do much to affect them without their consent. I was more reacting to the "doesn't matter" comment because that's the problem. That very attitude makes the Kurds even MORE likely to push for autonomy sooner. The more Baghdad takes a hands off approach to them the longer it's going to delay the separation, but I don't think it will last forever, and I don't think Turkey is going to wait too much longer to rein them in either as well as potentially grab some territory.
 
S

siamesedreamer

Banned
scorcho said:
edit: also, isn't this what you want? a president who reaches across the aisles and doesn't invoke the dreaded power of the 'SUPERMAJORITY!!!!'?
Click to expand...

I'm trying to figure out how what he's proposing is reaching across the aisle.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Everytime Obama opens his mouth, some pundit proclaims that he's flip-flopping.
 
W

worldrunover

Member
I may not be all in tune with that thar nuanced politician speak-like, but I listened to Obama's speech today, and he said he opposed the drilling part of the bill but thought the benefit of other parts outweighed a little off shore drilling. A) How is this a flip-flop and B) isn't this the kind of compromising you'd like to see from a potential president?
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
worldrunover said:
I may not be all in tune with that thar nuanced politician speak-like, but I listened to Obama's speech today, and he said he opposed the drilling part of the bill but thought the benefit of other parts outweighed a little off shore drilling. A) How is this a flip-flop and B) isn't this the kind of compromising you'd like to see from a potential president?
Click to expand...
A) It's not, and B) yup. And it's exactly the kind of compromise based approach Obama has been campaigning on all along.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
BTW, Dana Milbank is apparently ending his time as a correspondent on Olberman's show. Wonder if it's fallout from that misquote that was ran as a real quote and basically shaped the narrative for a few days:p
 
L

laserbeam

Banned
Jason's Ultimatum said:
What's this about Obama getting us off importing oil in 10 years? Seems like an incredible feat.
Click to expand...

Its Election season promise anything the people want to hear to win the crown.

It is literally impossible to be off of foreign oil completely in the next 10 years unless theres some amazing technology locked away somewhere that is gonna totally change the world.
 
The Chosen One

The Chosen One

Member
Tamanon said:
BTW, Dana Milbank is apparently ending his time as a correspondent on Olberman's show. Wonder if it's fallout from that misquote that was ran as a real quote and basically shaped the narrative for a few days:p
Click to expand...

Where did you read this? Who's decision was it?

I'm not suprised though if true. Dana is a funny guy, but that article last week was very poor journalism. I knew KeithO would be pissed about it and Dana probably wouldn't be back on the show since Keith doesn't have anyone on his show that he doesn't agree with.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
The Chosen One said:
Where did you read this? Who's decision was it?

I'm not suprised though if true. Dana is a funny guy, but that article last week was very poor journalism. I knew KeithO would be pissed about it and Dana probably wouldn't be back on the show since Keith doesn't have anyone on his show that he doesn't agree with.
Click to expand...

Olberman posted on Dailykos about it.
 
F

Frank the Great

Banned
laserbeam said:
Its Election season promise anything the people want to hear to win the crown.

It is literally impossible to be off of foreign oil completely in the next 10 years unless theres some amazing technology locked away somewhere that is gonna totally change the world.
Click to expand...

iwant.jpg
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
Jon Stewart:

"Is [Obama] arrogant? He's running for president. He thinks he can be the leader of the free world. Of course he's arrogant, they both are! What's McCain's strategy? 'I'd be a terrible president, I'd really do a bad job please vote for me.'" heh!
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
So, Milbank's piece was sarcastic after all, and the news networks and pundits ran with it as if he was being serious?

smh.
 
P

polyh3dron

Banned
reilo said:
Everytime Obama opens his mouth, some pundit proclaims that he's flip-flopping.
Click to expand...
And every time McCain actually flip flops, the pundits are either quick to rationalize it or they ignore it altogether.

Damn librul media.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
APF said:
Is saying you'll do a good job really arrogant?
Click to expand...

I'd say that running for President means you're pretty arrogant. You're running because you obviously believe you'd be the best choice to run the country.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
Tyrone Slothrop said:
can somebody give the cliff notes on the dana millbank thing? i read olbermann's kos blog and i'm still not sure what the issue is
Click to expand...

Milbank wrote an article using hearsay second-hand as a quote to paint Obama as arrogant, the traditional media ran with it and McCain even used the incorrect quote in his ads:p
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
APF said:
Is saying you'll do a good job really arrogant?
Click to expand...

It's impossible to think you can be the leader of the free world without some level of arrogance. That's the general point. Now this doesn't mean you're immovably stubborn or completely free from humility, but Jon Stewart raises a good point and I don't think he generally makes really relevant points.

You gotta have a good sense of your self to think you can do this job. Even crazier sense of yourself to think you can do it in THIS environment.
 
A

APF

Member
Amir0x said:
It's impossible to think you can be the leader of the free world without some level of arrogance.
Click to expand...
Certainly if you're a relative political novice, but not if you have decades of national political experience, and especially not if you've been Governor or even Mayor of a major city, etc. It takes a certain level of arrogance to apply for any job that has competition--that point is largely meaningless IMO. It takes arrogance for, say, me to say I'm the best person to lead this country, but not, say, a former President. The fact that it's a powerful position does not mean one cannot legitimately claim to be a good contender.
 
S

siamesedreamer

Banned
Jason's Ultimatum said:
What's this about Obama getting us off importing oil in 10 years? Seems like an incredible feat.
Click to expand...

Let's examine the many different ways Obama's "energy plan" is nothing but a big stinking pile of shit:

- The gas tax holiday he was against was such a bad idea that he ups the ante 10-fold by offering a $500 gas tax rebate per individual
- He's going to tap the strategic oil reserve because the high prices are an "emergency". Nevermind the fact that he has previously stated twice (the last time was less than a month ago - when prices were at their peak) that it should only be tapped in the case of real emergencies. Obviously, the only emergency going on here is his fall in the polls.
- He's going to "TACKLE" climate change. tee hee This involves government regulation that sacrifices American economic security on the altar of Environmental Fearmongering.
- His plans will force us to decrease energy demand 15% by 2020. In Obama's world, only demand is the enemy - not the source of production.
- He's going to levy a windfall profits tax on oil companies even though their margins are only 8%.
- He's doesn't want any new nuclear power plants. Safegaurding their waste is the priority.
- In 10 years, his plans will magically end the need to import oil from the Middle East and Venezuela.

Having fun yet? I saved the best two for last:

- He will warp laws of economics and "flip" the profit model for utility companies from one of production to reliability.
- The Department of Energy will become the Department of Who Gets Electricity Where, When, and For How Long. Remember those meters on thermostats in CA? Yeah...that's just the beta run.
 
C

Cheebs

Member
Door2Dawn said:
Shes going to be vp anyway,might as well start on it again.
Click to expand...
Except it wont ever ever happen? Despite the PR fluff the obamas and the clintons hate each other still. Bill's new interview makes this pretty obvious.
 
L

laserbeam

Banned
siamesedreamer said:
Let's examine the many different ways Obama's "energy plan" is nothing but a big stinking pile of shit:

- The gas tax holiday he was against was such a bad idea that he ups the ante 10-fold by offering a $500 gas tax rebate per individual
- He's going to tap the strategic oil reserve because the high prices are an "emergency". Nevermind the fact that he has previously stated twice (the last time was less than a month ago - when prices were at their peak) that it should only be tapped in the case of real emergencies. Obviously, the only emergency going on here is his fall in the polls.
- He's going to "TACKLE" climate change. tee hee This involves government regulation that sacrifices American economic security on the altar of Environmental Fearmongering.
- His plans will force us to decrease energy demand 15% by 2020. In Obama's world, only demand is the enemy - not the source of production.
- He's going to levy a windfall profits tax on oil companies even though their margins are only 8%.
- He's doesn't want any new nuclear power plants. Safegaurding their waste is the priority.
- In 10 years, his plans will magically end the need to import oil from the Middle East and Venezuela.

Having fun yet? I saved the best two for last:

- He will warp laws of economics and "flip" the profit model for utility companies from one of production to reliability.
- The Department of Energy will become the Department of Who Gets Electricity Where, When, and For How Long. Remember those meters on thermostats in CA? Yeah...that's just the beta run.
Click to expand...

To Expand on this. The amount of oil he wants to release from the strategic reserve is enough for 3 days. Its a farce that is mean tto appeal to the uneducated. He says I will release 70 million barrels of Oil and people go oooh thats alot when its insignificant. Any effect would be short term and very limited
 
S

SupahBlah

Banned
Gaborn said:
That attitude caused the Troubles in Northern Ireland, the constant ethnic conflict in Kashmir, and was a major precursor to the Kosovo War.
Click to expand...

The American attitude on Northern Ireland is why it lasted so long.

The American government refused to label the IRA terrorists and they would come over and do an Irish march in New York whenever they needed money. In fact the only reason they stood down and actually destroyed their weapons is Bush actively called them terrorists, I guess because he needed the British support for a change.

Its why I despise Michael Moore, his writings and "understanding" of Northern Ireland are an absolute fucking joke.
 
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