• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PoliGAF Interim Thread of USA General Elections (DAWN OF THE VEEP)

Status
Not open for further replies.

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
the disgruntled gamer said:
I've got to agree with APF here, I don't think that Obama lecturing people about properly inflating their tires is going to make a lot of people say, "Man, that Barack Obama is just like me. However, that John McCain is really elitist and out-of-touch about this tire inflation issue!"


Of course they won't. Just like how when Obama said that thing about not looking like other presidents wasn't receive as the "RACE CARD" being played.

Sometimes you have to push things to get them repeated in the media. Obama making McCain look out of touch and elistist on being against proper tire pressure can be a good move.

Especially if Obama's campagin were to point to these following Nascar tips from Nascar's own website.

2. Pump up the tires. Underinflated tires wear down more quickly and can lower a car's gas mileage by as much as 15 percent. Driving on underinflated tires may also reduce the life of the tires by 15 percent or more, so make sure to keep the tires set at the proper pressure.

3. Keep the engine in tune. Fixing a car that is out of tune or has failed an emissions test can boost gas mileage by about 4 percent. So be sure to give the car regular tune-ups. Also, watch out for worn spark plugs. A misfiring spark plug can reduce a car's fuel efficiency by as much as 30 percent.

4. Replace air filters. When the engine air filter clogs with dirt, dust and bugs, it causes the engine to work harder and the car becomes less fuel-efficient. Replacing a clogged air filter could improve gas mileage by as much as 10 percent and save 15 cents a gallon. It's a good idea to have the engine air filter checked at each oil change.

5. Use the right oil. Improve the car's gas mileage by 1 to 2 percent by using the manufacturer's recommended grade of motor oil. Opt for motor oil with friction-reducing additives.

6. Don't top off. Don't bother topping off when filling the car's gas tank. Any additional gas is just going to slop around or seep out. Why waste money paying for gas the car won't use? Stop pumping at the first indication that the tank is full when the automatic nozzle clicks off.

7. Tighten up that gas cap. Loose, missing or damaged gas caps cause 147 million gallons of gas to evaporate each year, according to the Car Care Council. So be sure to tighten up that gas cap each time you fuel up your car.

8. Go for the shade. The hot summer sun that makes the inside of your car feel like a sauna also zaps fuel from the gas tank. So park the car in the shade of a building or tree whenever possible. And buy a good windshield shade. A windshield shade blocks sunlight and helps to keep heat out of the inside of the car.

9. Got a garage? Parking in the garage will help the car stay warm in winter and cool in summer, and stop depending as much on the gas-guzzling air-conditioning or defroster when driving.

10. Don't skimp on maintenance. Be serious about auto care. A car's performance depends on it. Always follow the manufacturer-recommended maintenance and obey the car-care guidelines outlined in the owner's manual. Remember, the car is designed to run a certain way. If you neglect it, it won't be as efficient.

http://www.nascar.com/2008/auto/cct/04/22/car.care.fuel.economy/

Obama's team needs to put this exact points in an email to their emailing group and have Obama repeat them ad-neasum. How can the republicans go against Nascar?
 

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
yep. what we're seeing is essentially the same jump that happemed during the stock market contraction between 2001-2002; investors jumped ship from equity markets and pushed investment into housing (through asset purchases, ABS and MBS) which the Fed Reserve sustained through low interest rates and cheap credit. speculators took the entire relationship between supply-demand and price and warped it beyond recognition. same is happening now with oil.

my concern is that Fed Reserve policy during that time period essentially legitimized the bubble and kicked it into overdrive. as such i'm leery of any type of government subsidy (be it trickle down or gas tax holiday) that would only reinforce the current prices. what needs to happen is what we're already seeing; inflated prices shock consumers and drive demand down to the point where the bubble deflates.
 
scorcho said:
so if this bubble is mostly just speculative trading right now, what's the point about any of this talk about demand and oil supplies?

Energy independence? Importing less from hostile countries?

Truth be told, I think the DEMs could be onto something with attaching a "deliverable" component to oil contracts. But, I'm not going to pretend that I know how that would effect the market. I always lean toward a hands-off approach when it comes to that kind of stuff. I'd be open to listening to the argument though.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
scorcho said:
yep. what we're seeing is essentially the same jump that happemed during the stock market contraction between 2001-2002; investors jumped ship from equity markets and pushed investment into housing (through asset purchases, ABS and MBS) which the Fed Reserve sustained through low interest rates and cheap credit.

looked how well that turned out.

right, so if this is a bubble its best to squash it now and not all pretend the kings new clothes are awesome. because that is how housing started (in part)... everyone has known housing was a farce since about 2004-2005, but just played along.

I don't think energy is a bubble, but its possible... i think part of it is long term reality of finite supply vs increasing future demand.. but i guess the same shit was spouted by the 'real estate prices can only go up up up people'
 

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
StoOgE said:
right, so if this is a bubble its best to squash it now and not all pretend the kings new clothes are awesome. because that is how housing started (in part)... everyone has known housing was a farce since about 2004-2005, but just played along.

I don't think energy is a bubble, but its possible... i think part of it is long term reality of finite supply vs increasing future demand..
yeah, the fundamentals don't really show oil dropping back to where we saw it 3-4 years ago, but i think that long-term forecast has little relation to what we're seeing now in the short-term.

would be interested to see how these oil prices have effected the global economy and not just our domestic driving habits. globalization runs on oil and these spikes must've caused some hurt even in those countries that subsidize its cost (China).
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
StoOgE said:
right, so if this is a bubble its best to squash it now and not all pretend the kings new clothes are awesome. because that is how housing started (in part)... everyone has known housing was a farce since about 2004-2005, but just played along.

I don't think energy is a bubble, but its possible... i think part of it is long term reality of finite supply vs increasing future demand.. but i guess the same shit was spouted by the 'real estate prices can only go up up up people'


Yep and some people like you said saw it was a bubble in the housing market but nobody wanted to do anything about the negative side of the corporations making it a bubble.

This is where government comes in a the free market fucks most people. The free market is NOT always right. It will fix itself, but how long will it take? Why wait? This is one reason why we elect representatives of our districts and states.

We elect them to make a change to something that's not right with the current system or to continue something in the system that is correct. And the housing bubble wasn't real, hence it being a bubble. It was manufactured off of BS. Sorta like the home run records that were broken over the last 10 years in Major League Baseball.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
mckmas8808 said:
Yep and some people like you said saw it was a bubble in the housing market but nobody wanted to do anything about the negative side of the corporations making it a bubble.

This is where government comes in a the free market fucks most people. The free market is NOT always right. It will fix itself, but how long will it take? Why wait? This is one reason why we elect representatives of our districts and states.

We elect them to make a change to something that's not right with the current system or to continue something in the system that is correct. And the housing bubble wasn't real, hence it being a bubble. It was manufactured off of BS. Sorta like the home run records that were broken over the last 10 years in Major League Baseball.

well, housing started out just fine. What killed it was when the financials and the fed decided housing would save the economy, cdo's rating investment grade and the feds cheap money made what was a legit growth industry into a monster.

Bad economic policy can cripple an economy, and Greenspan trying to prove he was an economic guru really fucked us.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
scorcho said:
yeah, the fundamentals don't really show oil dropping back to where we saw it 3-4 years ago, but i think that long-term forecast has little relation to what we're seeing now in the short-term.

would be interested to see how these oil prices have effected the global economy and not just our domestic driving habits. globalization runs on oil and these spikes must've caused some hurt even in those countries that subsidize its cost (China).


Hey scorcho let me tell you some good info that supports your post.

HONG KONG (MarketWatch) -- Governments in India and Malaysia have boosted motor-fuel prices in an effort to ease the burden of fuel subsidies on national finances.
India increased prices of gasoline and diesel by about 10% Wednesday, the second such move this year, while Malaysia increased gasoline prices by 41% and said there would be increases for diesel and electricity
.

Officials in Kuala Lumpur said their move was part of a plan to use global market rates for pricing fuel to contain a subsidy burden on the nation's budget. Malaysia said its fuel subsidies will cost 56 billion ringgit ($17.2 billion) this year based on current crude-oil prices.

The moves follow similar revamps of the energy price systems in Indonesia last month, which raised prices by 29% and Sri Lanka, which boosted prices by 14% to 47%.
The decision by India's ruling coalition government comes as inflation is soaring. Official data released Friday showed that India's inflation, as measured by the wholesale price index, jumped 8.1% in the week ended May 17 from the year-ago period.

The Bombay Stock Exchange's 30-constituent Sensitive Index, or Sensex, ended sharply lower Wednesday, tumbling 2.8% to 15.514,79, its lowest close since April 4.
Malaysia's KLSE Composite Index was down 2.2% in early trading Thursday, extending a 0.4% slide in the previous session.

The latest price increases are expected to ease losses at India's state-controlled oil-refining and marketing firms like Indian Oil Corp., Bharat Petroleum Corp. and Hindustan Petroleum Corp, which have been selling petroleum products at below cost as the government tried to control inflation. The Financial Times reported India's fuel subsidy burden is expected to rise to $57.8 billion this year, accounting for more than 3% of gross domestic product.

Indian refiners lifted prices of gasoline by five rupees ($0.12) a liter, diesel prices by three rupees a liter and cooking gas prices by 50 rupees a cylinder of 14.2 kilograms, effective from midnight Wednesday. Separately, the government cut duties on crude-oil imports and lowered the excise duty on gasoline and diesel.

India, Malaysia cut subsidies




On Thursday, after a U.S.-China economic summit, Beijing announced that it would raise state-controlled gasoline prices by 17 percent, to about US$3.06 per gallon. That's still far below what Chinese motorists would be paying if they had to absorb the full effect of global oil price increases, as Americans do -- but it's a start.

By now, it is conventional wisdom that the surge in oil prices is driven at least in part by booming demand in fast-growing developing countries such as China and India. Until recently, it has been less widely appreciated that developing-world demand was not a purely spontaneous result of economic growth. Government policies designed to hold down the politically sensitive price of energy have artificially stimulated energy consumption.

China and India are hardly alone in this regard. Other big subsidizers have included Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam, Iran, the Gulf states, Russia and Venezuela. In 2006, the International Energy Agency estimated that total energy subsidies in the 20 largest economies outside of North America, Europe and Japan had reached US$220 billion annually; of that, US$90 billion went for gasoline, diesel and other oil products. According to a Deutsche Bank forecast before China's policy change, all of the growth in oil demand in 2008 was likely to come from nations that subsidize consumption.

Already facing rising inflation, China undoubtedly would rather have avoided the price increases. And, though the Bush administration has raised the issue with renewed intensity in recent days, the Chinese probably would have ignored U.S. hectoring if they could have. Beijing had no choice, however, because, with oil prices higher than US$130 per barrel, fuel subsidies were beginning to drain the national treasury. There has been unrest in other energy-subsidizing countries that have raised prices in recent months, among them Malaysia, India and Indonesia. But there was unrest in China even with price controls because underpaid refineries were cutting back production, leading to shortages and angry gas lines.
.

China cuts 17% of their subsidy.


So yes I'm not surprised to see global oil prices falling now. Like Mandark would say it's all supply and demand.
 
The problem, and the solution to it (PDF) have been known for years. It has just REALLY blown up in the past year, as people said, because of the mortgage collapse.

All that needs to be done for the moment is to establish the same kind of oversight (reporting and margin requirements, position limits) on WTI and Brent contracts on the ICE as there already are for oil futures on the NYMEX. Or, better, just roll back Clinton's 'Enron Loophole' (re-tying those requirements to the traders themselves) so that the investments banks and such don't just scamper off to some OTHER 'not a market' that actually is, minus all the transparency.

'Supply and demand,' as some OPEC honcho said not so long ago, will then put us back, worst case, at $70 (a price which included a level of speculation itself probably well beyond that necessary to meet the hedging needs of the actual producers and consumers of the stuff) + some allowance for the depreciation of the dollar in the last year. You can't have no-holds-barred, free-for-all, leveraged-out-the-ass speculation on the most fundamental commodity in the world's economy and not expect nearly everybody to get hurt.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
slidewinder said:
The problem, and the solution to it (PDF) have been known for years. It has just REALLY blown up in the past year, as people said, because of the mortgage collapse.

All that needs to be done for the moment is to establish the same kind of oversight (reporting and margin requirements, position limits) on WTI and Brent contracts on the ICE as there already are for oil futures on the NYMEX. Or, better, just roll back Clinton's 'Enron Loophole' (re-tying those requirements to the traders themselves) so that the investments banks and such don't just scamper off to some OTHER 'not a market' that actually is, minus all the transparency.

'Supply and demand,' as some OPEC honcho said not so long ago, will then put us back, worst case, at $70 (a price which included a level of speculation itself probably well beyond that necessary to meet the hedging needs of the actual producers and consumers of the stuff) + some allowance for the depreciation of the dollar in the last year. You can't have no-holds-barred, free-for-all, leveraged-out-the-ass speculation on the most fundamental commodity in the world's economy and not expect nearly everybody to get hurt.

I think your worst case is actually the best case scenario. $70 is super cheap and a price I can't see the world accepting anymore. It's basically too lower for the world because the the subsidies would come back and people would be like "fucks dat yo I'm driving 300 miles to the beach in my Cadillac Escalade with my 5 friends just so we can go to the hottest clubz!!"

$70 a barrel oil doesn't support that kind of thinking. I believe $100 a barrel oil does though. I can see us being and staying this year between $100 and $125 a barrel if the right things happen this year.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
slidewinder said:
The problem, and the solution to it (PDF) have been known for years. It has just REALLY blown up in the past year, as people said, because of the mortgage collapse.

All that needs to be done for the moment is to establish the same kind of oversight (reporting and margin requirements, position limits) on WTI and Brent contracts on the ICE as there already are for oil futures on the NYMEX. Or, better, just roll back Clinton's 'Enron Loophole' (re-tying those requirements to the traders themselves) so that the investments banks and such don't just scamper off to some OTHER 'not a market' that actually is, minus all the transparency.

'Supply and demand,' as some OPEC honcho said not so long ago, will then put us back, worst case, at $70 (a price which included a level of speculation itself probably well beyond that necessary to meet the hedging needs of the actual producers and consumers of the stuff) + some allowance for the depreciation of the dollar in the last year. You can't have no-holds-barred, free-for-all, leveraged-out-the-ass speculation on the most fundamental commodity in the world's economy and not expect nearly everybody to get hurt.

pretty much, the amount of 3rd amd 4th market trading that goes on largely unregulated in mind numbing. Just forcing *everything* through FINRA (similar to how the MSRB defers to them) as a sole super SRO that acts as the SEC's own personal task force is ideal.

Also, insurance should be declared a security and thrown under the SECs jurisdiction. There is gonna be a fight over equity indexed products next year that should be the first weakening blow of the insurance lobby.
 
Supply and demand is gradual! This rise and fall of oil has nothing...nothing to do with supply and demand. Sure supply and demand plays a part in the price changes but the insane run up on prices and its subsequent drop has everything to do with oil speculators who jumped on every bit of bad news in the Middle East. Oil shot up $11 because of an Iranian Missile test? You've got to be fucking retarded to say that's supply and demand.

Congress and the SEC has threatened to begin investigating the hedge funds and firms who spread rumours, collude and jazz the markets near closing, that's what's stopped the increase. Though suprisingly CNBC and Bloomberg will never mention this because it would guarantee that they'd lose interviews with a lot of big players on the market.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
GenericPseudonym said:
Supply and demand is gradual! This rise and fall of oil has nothing...nothing to do with supply and demand. Sure supply and demand plays a part in the price changes but the insane run up on prices and its subsequent drop has everything to do with oil speculators who jumped on every bit of bad news in the Middle East. Oil shot up $11 because of an Iranian Missile test? You've got to be fucking retarded to say that's supply and demand.

Congress and the SEC has threatened to begin investigating the hedge funds and firms who spread rumours, collude and jazz the markets near closing, that's what's stopped the increase. Though suprisingly CNBC and Bloomberg will never mention this because it would guarantee that they'd lose interviews with a lot of big players on the market.


It is sad that this isn't talked about more. I would love to learn more about it.
 

mj1108

Member
GenericPseudonym said:
Supply and demand is gradual! This rise and fall of oil has nothing...nothing to do with supply and demand. Sure supply and demand plays a part in the price changes but the insane run up on prices and its subsequent drop has everything to do with oil speculators who jumped on every bit of bad news in the Middle East. Oil shot up $11 because of an Iranian Missile test? You've got to be fucking retarded to say that's supply and demand.

Congress and the SEC has threatened to begin investigating the hedge funds and firms who spread rumours, collude and jazz the markets near closing, that's what's stopped the increase. Though suprisingly CNBC and Bloomberg will never mention this because it would guarantee that they'd lose interviews with a lot of big players on the market.

It just proves what many of us have been saying all along: the problem has been unregulated speculation.
 
scorcho said:
god, this incessant coverage on the horse race filled with hokey metaphors is starting to wear a bit thin. instead of showing how Obama/McCain 'flip flopped' on offshore drilling, why not go into an analysis of what said plan hopes to accomplish and how it won't do a single damn thing to that end?

thank god for the Discovery Network; i'm learning how rubber is made right now.

If McCain wins, (along with the time that Bush has been in office) this period will be the largest dumbing down of America. I cringe at what things will be like at the end of a McCain presidency.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
mj1108 said:
It just proves what many of us have been saying all along: a large part of the problem has been unregulated speculation.

fixed
 

APF

Member
OMG that's a brilliant idea! Maybe we should get some shots of him in one of the cars too, with his safety helmet and everything looking official, waving at the people; it would be an amazing photo-op.

Also I was thinking about that "Celebrity" ad McCain did; what a HYPOCRITE! Did you know he was a guest for years at an exclusive resort called The Hanoi Hilton? As in, PARIS Hilton!! You should tell the Obama staff at your next meeting to produce an ad juxtaposing the two. That would really burn him! I can't wait to see the tortured expression on his face when he tries to explain his way out of that! No one who stays at the Hilton on the taxpayer's dime should get to call anyone an elitist. Goose for the motherfucking GANDER



You know... I haven't been able to sleep for weeks... it's this "elitist" label. I couldn't eat last night, there was a whole bowl of arugula--do you know how much that costs? I threw it out. It's this "elitist" label. If I were poor dumb and white I'd have my guns to comfort me, my religion and my racist attitude towards outsourcing and trade, but I don't because ew. It's this "elitist" label. If only He would bless the proles with the perfect lecture--or series of lectures,--or point them to the numerous commoner-focused policy papers on http://www.barackobama.com, use Firefox. Preferably a Mac because of the font rendering. It's this "elitist" label.
 

Ponn

Banned
APF said:
You know... I haven't been able to sleep for weeks... it's this "elitist" label. I couldn't eat last night, there was a whole bowl of arugula--do you know how much that costs? I threw it out. It's this "elitist" label. If I were poor dumb and white I'd have my guns to comfort me, my religion and my racist attitude towards outsourcing and trade, but I don't because ew. It's this "elitist" label. If only He would bless the proles with the perfect lecture--or series of lectures,--or point them to the numerous commoner-focused policy papers on http://www.barackobama.com, use Firefox. Preferably a Mac because of the font rendering. It's this "elitist" label.

Hmmm...funny how conservatives had no problem throwing around the elitist label a couple months back towards Obama direction. Goose for the motherfucking gander indeed.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Not sure if anyone else has been following the details of the Hess oil company, and how many members of the family that runs the company maxed to to the RNC and McCain right after he switched his position on offshore drilling. About 10 members of the company gave the max on the same day, a week after McCain flipped. Now it's looking like that was coordinated a week in advance of McCain switching his position publicly; the donations were bundled up in advance at a fundraiser, McCain did the public flip, and they donated to him and the RNC. Looks like a pretty clear quid pro quo, planned in advance.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/08/report_hess_execs_ponied_up_hu.php

On June 10, John B. Hess, a top executive at the oil company with his family name, summoned friends to the 21 Club, a former speakeasy in Manhattan, and delivered $285,000 to John McCain and the Republican National Committee.
A week later, McCain traveled to Texas and announced his support for offshore oil drilling...

Hess was one of half a dozen hosts who tapped friends for the maximum $28,500 donation to the GOP. Others included investor Henry Kravis and hedge fund mogul Paul E. Singer.

McCain spokesman Brian Rogers said there was no link between the money and McCain's stand. "Mr. Hess was fundraising before Sen. McCain made the announcement," he said.
Hard to know what to make of this. There's no source given for the info on the fundraiser itself, and the contributions were bundled and delivered to the RNC-McCain committee on June 24th. And as best as I can determine from other reporters, Hess has clammed up and is refusing to explain what happened.

More:

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/08/hess_corporation_office_manage.php
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
GhaleonEB said:
Not sure if anyone else has been following the details of the Hess oil company, and how many members of the family that runs the company maxed to to the RNC and McCain right after he switched his position on offshore drilling. About 10 members of the company gave the max on the same day, a week after McCain flipped. Now it's looking like that was coordinated a week in advance of McCain switching his position publicly; the donations were bundled up in advance at a fundraiser, McCain did the public flip, and they donated to him and the RNC. Looks like a pretty clear quid pro quo, planned in advance.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/08/report_hess_execs_ponied_up_hu.php



More:

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/08/hess_corporation_office_manage.php

So Obama running that ad yesterday might have legs?
 

tanod

when is my burrito
DNC's The Next Cheney said:
Pawlenty Attacked Obama on McCain Gas Tax Holiday After Saying He Was Open To Increasing Minn. Gas Tax. The New York Times wrote, "In the past two years, Gov. Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota twice vetoed legislation to raise the state's gas tax to pay for transportation needs. Now, with at least five people dead in the collapse of the Interstate 35W bridge here, Mr. Pawlenty, a Republican, appears to have had a change of heart. 'He's open to that,' Brian McClung, a spokesman for the governor, said Monday of a higher gas tax. 'He believes we need to do everything we can to address this situation and the extraordinary costs.'" But this year, "Wearing his other hat as national co-chair of the McCain presidential campaign Pawlenty sharply criticized the likely Democratic nominee, Senator Barack Obama, for not the idea of a federal gas tax holiday. 'Senator McCain has called for a temporary gas tax holiday to provide at least some immediate relief for Minnesotans and Americans as they face these historic and burdensome gasoline prices,' Pawlenty said, 'And Senator Obama has said no to that idea.'

Of all the charges laid out against Pawlenty on the DNC website, this really is the only legitimate one that would have traction in the GE.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
APF said:
OMG that's a brilliant idea! Maybe we should get some shots of him in one of the cars too, with his safety helmet and everything looking official, waving at the people; it would be an amazing photo-op.

Also I was thinking about that "Celebrity" ad McCain did; what a HYPOCRITE! Did you know he was a guest for years at an exclusive resort called The Hanoi Hilton? As in, PARIS Hilton!! You should tell the Obama staff at your next meeting to produce an ad juxtaposing the two. That would really burn him! I can't wait to see the tortured expression on his face when he tries to explain his way out of that! No one who stays at the Hilton on the taxpayer's dime should get to call anyone an elitist. Goose for the motherfucking GANDER



You know... I haven't been able to sleep for weeks... it's this "elitist" label. I couldn't eat last night, there was a whole bowl of arugula--do you know how much that costs? I threw it out. It's this "elitist" label. If I were poor dumb and white I'd have my guns to comfort me, my religion and my racist attitude towards outsourcing and trade, but I don't because ew. It's this "elitist" label. If only He would bless the proles with the perfect lecture--or series of lectures,--or point them to the numerous commoner-focused policy papers on http://www.barackobama.com, use Firefox. Preferably a Mac because of the font rendering. It's this "elitist" label.

You should stick to your po-faced, pseudo-intellectual, reflexively anti-Liberal polemic. Satire is not your strong suit.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
GhaleonEB said:
Not sure if anyone else has been following the details of the Hess oil company, and how many members of the family that runs the company maxed to to the RNC and McCain right after he switched his position on offshore drilling. About 10 members of the company gave the max on the same day, a week after McCain flipped. Now it's looking like that was coordinated a week in advance of McCain switching his position publicly; the donations were bundled up in advance at a fundraiser, McCain did the public flip, and they donated to him and the RNC. Looks like a pretty clear quid pro quo, planned in advance.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/08/report_hess_execs_ponied_up_hu.php



More:

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/08/hess_corporation_office_manage.php

Quid Pro Quo with an oil company and his position flip could bury his campaign. Obama and the DNC need to run negative ads from today until the election about this, because it is unlikely the MSM will run with it.
 

Farmboy

Member
Wow, if only John Kerry had been as good a surrogate for himself as he is for Obama:

“John McCain is still stuck on the low road express,” said Kerry. “He doesn’t get it. He’s even dangerous, I think, for the direction of this country.”

Kerry accused McCain of repeated flip-flopping and going back on his word of running a clean campaign He also poked fun at McCain’s economic credentials.

“I don’t know if you know this,” joked Kerry, “John McCain is looking for someone for vice president who has more economic expertise than he does. So congratulations to all of you, you’re on the short list.”
 

Tamanon

Banned
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcU81Y193sU

I'm not sure which is worse about this clip. That they basically try and give McCain a complete free pass for the negative campaigning because it personally hurts him, or that they say that he has no idea what his campaign is actually doing and his advisors basically lie to him every day. It's kinda weird, I don't know if we really want another president that's under the control of advisors too much:p
 

tanod

when is my burrito
Obama has a new ad repeating the line yesterday about McCain's comments about the energy problem slowly accelerating over 30 years despite being in Washington for 26 of them. I thought it was a good line yesterday. Glad they turned it into an ad.
 
Tamanon said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcU81Y193sU

I'm not sure which is worse about this clip. That they basically try and give McCain a complete free pass for the negative campaigning because it personally hurts him, or that they say that he has no idea what his campaign is actually doing and his advisors basically lie to him every day. It's kinda weird, I don't know if we really want another president that's under the control of advisors too much:p

A McCain presidency would probably look like the second term of the Reagan administration.
 

APF

Member
If I were to venture an intuitive point--and not one I've read or heard,--I'm assuming from the beginning of this campaign (or really even prior to) McCain felt the only way he could make headway towards the Presidency was to abandon himself to strategists, and so far he's been at least half right.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom