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PoliGAF Interim Thread of USA General Elections (DAWN OF THE VEEP)
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Obama's does not replace any other system, and is not mandated. Pretty far from socialized healthcare. And McCain's plan is going to cost even more, while covering fewer and providing less benefit.XCell9200 said:
So does Obama. His plan calls for combat troops to pull out, but leave support personnel there. Anti-terrorism squads, trainers for the Iraqi police and other support personnel. And we we will still have bases in the region.
Keylime
ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
Not if you speak rationally. Don't spout bullshit and expect respect.XCell9200 said:
Have you actually read Obama's healthcare plan, or have you just heard about it? Obama's healthcare plan only mandates that children are covered, and once they enter young adulthood, can stay on with their parents up to 25. No one is forcing anyone else to have healthcare, he is just making attempts at having it be more affordable so that if you want it you can get it.XCell9200 said:
Your line about taxes is misguided. Obama is proposing having those people who make over $250,000 pay more taxes, and those making less pay less. 95% of Americans make less than $250,000, so naturally a massive majority will see tax relief. Those currently making $250,000 or more are currently receiving tax breaks, and only need to pay taxes on portions of their salary instead of the whole thing. Taxing them makes sense and is more fair. How much money do you make?
I got nothing here. That is your opinion and I can accept it.XCell9200 said:
I don't think you've done enough research to make an informed decision.XCell9200 said:
I honestly am not trying to flame you, I can see that you have issues you're voting on and such, but I have to say, if you're 20 and payed any attention at all, I'd think you would have seen how our country has go downhill under Bush. Now, considering that McCain is going to be (more or less) 4 more years of Bush, I have to seriously question what you've personally seen out of Bush that makes you want four more years of that. I mean, you yourself said that these are some of the hardest times in American history.XCell9200 said:
And if you buy into the "McCain experience" argument, I'd also encourage you to actually find out more about him. He may have been in Washington for a long time, but it's clear that he is a bit clueless about... a lot of things.
I encourage you to watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWX5u69hmzY&eurl=http://talkingpointsmemo.com/, by the way. I think it's definitely something to consider.
Note the spending CUTS he has also proposed.JayDubya said:
But to be fair, Obama has said he can't balance the budget in the first term. Healthcare, energy, infrastructure, declining real wages, education - there are too many neglected priorities. So he's chosen to push on those and work more slowly to balance the budget.
maximum360
Member
XCell9200 said:
This is a joke post right?
RubxQub said:
The onus is on the Obama campaign to explain this to the people and to contrast the fact that Obama's the son of an immigrant who recently finished repaying his college loans while McCain is the son of a general, $500 pairs of shoes etc ..
This kid glove bullshit has to stop. It's been 2 weeks since Rep's are attacking Obama's character and his campaign have not put out a single effective ad rebutting the claim. It's not like it would be hard to make either : a few cuts of SNL and The Daily Show, some 24, pictures of McCain with his celeb friends and quotes from various Cindy interviews would do the job. It's not actually a smear job when all you do is quoting the candidate.
Amory
Member
"Also, I'm really starting to get tired of the fact that Obama is more of a celebrity than a candidate for presidency during one of the most difficult times in American history. People need to look past the youth and charm of the guy. If he wins the election I feel like a lot of it will be based solely in charisma, and that's just not the way to elect a leader."
As far as that statement goes, I overgeneralized. I'm just saying that many young voters, especially, are extremely bitter about the Bush years and are seeing Obama as some sort of savior of the USA. I live on a college campus most of the year, and so many people are going crazy with hype when essentially they haven't looked at what they really want out of the election. If he's elected, he's got a tough road ahead of him. He's not going to single handedly pull the country out of the toilet over a few years. When you have rap songs sampling portions of a presidential candidate's speeches, it seems like the anticipation of something new and different may end up being better than the actual result.
As far as that statement goes, I overgeneralized. I'm just saying that many young voters, especially, are extremely bitter about the Bush years and are seeing Obama as some sort of savior of the USA. I live on a college campus most of the year, and so many people are going crazy with hype when essentially they haven't looked at what they really want out of the election. If he's elected, he's got a tough road ahead of him. He's not going to single handedly pull the country out of the toilet over a few years. When you have rap songs sampling portions of a presidential candidate's speeches, it seems like the anticipation of something new and different may end up being better than the actual result.
Best news of the day so far. More Cheney at the convention, the better.
And First Read tears apart McCain's new ad: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/08/08/1255356.aspx
Frank the Great
Banned
XCell9200 said:
How the hell does any of that relate to who you decide to vote for?
It's like not buying GTA games because they're too popular or something. Just because people like something and it has high expectations, doesn't mean it automatically will be bad!
Well duh, we have a government that means that politicians will never be able to do what they espouse completely. In that case, you go for the person that espouses values and beliefs closest to what you think. You're going to be disappointed, but that's normal for politics. You'll see as you go through more elections.
XCell9200 said:
These topics have been going on since before the primary season had "officially" begun; it is unnecessary to point out the fact that there are some people who are voting for him for emotional and not rational reasons.
And, to be perfectly blunt, I don't think you have room to criticize them when you apparently have some misconceptions on exactly what his policies are.
Hey now, he just disagrees with your stances he hasn't been acting like he's illiterate or anything.maximum360 said:
I don't doubt that the anticipation of Obama will end up being a lot better than the actual result. However, it's worth noting that there's a reason why people don't like Bush, and from what the candidates are saying, McCain seems like he's going to be a continuation of Bush, whereas it's fairly clear that Obama will take the country in a different direction.XCell9200 said:
MSNBC watchers should appreciate this.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/08/ex-bush-aide-claims-swing_n_117652.html
Brad Blakeman is suing, saying that "Swing Vote" stole his ideas.:lol
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/08/ex-bush-aide-claims-swing_n_117652.html
Brad Blakeman is suing, saying that "Swing Vote" stole his ideas.:lol
worldrunover
Member
the disgruntled gamer said:
Remember, Bush's approval rating is at 29%. While that may seem low, it also means almost 1/3 of Americans think he's doing a good job. Try and wrap your head around that for a second.
McCain is using the tried and true GOP playbook, and so far it has worked pretty well. There's no need to steer clear of the muck when it works. How long that can sustain him though, there's the rub. Generally speaking when the v ote is "Person X" or "Not Person X", Person X usually wins (look at Bush in '04). McCain's strategy right now is promoting the fact he's NOT Barack Obama, even though he's oddly portraying him as a well-known, articulate, motivational guy.
soul creator
Member
honestly, I haven't really seen much evidence that McCain's ads are really "hurting" Obama. They "hurt" him if you follow politics on a day to day basis (like us on PoliGAF) and watch cable news pundits. But has there been some drastic change in polls over the past couple weeks? It goes up and down, sure, but I haven't seen anything that shows the race has changed completely.
Tracking Gallup and Rasmussen every single day is sort of a misleading way to approach this race, I think. Especially considering a lead of "only" 5 points in a popular vote may be pretty large when it comes to electoral votes.
Tracking Gallup and Rasmussen every single day is sort of a misleading way to approach this race, I think. Especially considering a lead of "only" 5 points in a popular vote may be pretty large when it comes to electoral votes.
soul creator said:
It did not have a direct and substantive effect on Obama's poll numbers. It will however, if it's allowed to continue basically unchecked by Obama's campaign, start to define Obama the way Kerry was defined as a french, coward wind surfer and will chip away slowly at his popularity, especially with voters on the fence.
soul creator
Member
Kildace said:
Obama's been defined as "weak elitist" for the past 7-8 months and his numbers haven't changed. Remember after the primary how he was sure to have so many issues with Clinton supporters and white working class voters and latinos and everyone else? Yeah, so much for that.
And it hasn't continued "unchecked". Obama responds to it all the time, and talks about McCain and Bush at almost every town hall. Does it get picked up and pushed by cable news pundits? Of course not, because they already have their pre-made "narrative".
I think the frustrating part for viewers is that a lot of the Obama campaign is "behind the scenes" grassroots stuff, that isn't pushed in national news. So there's this impression that he's falling behind, even though he's the only actually making a big effort talking directly to people, registering voters, etc. What's McCain's ground game looking like?
It's tempting to be fearful and think Obama is going into Kerry territory, but I think this race has a lot of different factors in play that doesn't make this comparable to 04 at all.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
XCell9200 said:
Dude, what makes you think that those people going to see Obama don't know and like his polices?
What makes you so smart and good about understanding McCain's policies while others can't understand Obama's?
The Librarian
Banned
New McCain ad... nice.GhaleonEB said:
i always understood obama's healthcare plan as a pragmatic nod to both the difficulties in passing an all-encompassing universal healthcare plan given the current senate makeup and passing the media litmus test. he didn't have to say mandate and that pleased the media overlords. now if the democrats pick up the likely 5-7 senate seats on their radar, effectively ensuring them a filibuster-proof majority then i fully expect obama, if elected president, to support mandated universal healthcare.
60 votes isn't required in the senate. 56 and above is all that is necessary considering that the GOP is going to play a lot of defense in 2010 and they'll have some senator's stuck between a rock and a hard place.
60 votes isn't required in the senate. 56 and above is all that is necessary considering that the GOP is going to play a lot of defense in 2010 and they'll have some senator's stuck between a rock and a hard place.
This could potentially be really interesting
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/08/07/atlantic_scores_internal_clint.html
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/08/07/atlantic_scores_internal_clint.html
Keylime
ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
Really bad you mean.syllogism said:
More shit that is like "We need to paint Obama as disconnected with working class whites!" will get posted, causing more of a shitstorm for the B-man.
Barack is going to have to fucking swim through shit in order to get the presidency, and it's insane that so far he's been able to.
Keylime
ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
...and another fucking thing.
Why is it that the average American finds inability to be charming? Like Bush with his inability to speak fluent English, and now McCain with his inability to be socially relevant and stick to a single plan for any given issue.
Remember how the word "flip-flopper" completely wiped Kerry off the face of the planet? Why is this word not being used now against McCain? Sure Obama's flipped on a few things, but not NEARLY as much shit as McCain, not by a long shot.
How people can see this guy as competent is beyond me. He'll crash America into the ground like one of his 5 planes while he served.
Why is it that the average American finds inability to be charming? Like Bush with his inability to speak fluent English, and now McCain with his inability to be socially relevant and stick to a single plan for any given issue.
Remember how the word "flip-flopper" completely wiped Kerry off the face of the planet? Why is this word not being used now against McCain? Sure Obama's flipped on a few things, but not NEARLY as much shit as McCain, not by a long shot.
How people can see this guy as competent is beyond me. He'll crash America into the ground like one of his 5 planes while he served.
Nope. He has plenty from the primary. I think it's going to reflect badly on Hillary and her campaign, but it's coming out during the Olympics. After that we're on to veeps and the conventions. It's going to be an interesting footnote, but I'm not worried about it.RubxQub said:
I reserve the right to flip-flop if there's something really outrageous and/or hilarious in the emails.
maximum360
Member
syllogism said:
Wow. All we need is more Clinton drama. This I think would be more damaging to the Clintons more than it will Obama though.
Keylime
ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
Perhaps I'm looking too much into what could be in these, but I'm just imagining a campaign ad or talking points that just reference these things.
I'm assuming they probably had things in there that painted a fairly nasty picture of Obama.
We just saw one from McCain not too long ago saying "Paint him as a Job Destroyer" or some shit like that. I'm sure the Clinton camp had some crazy shit in their internal memos that will be nice fuel for the fire.
...but we'll see.
I'm assuming they probably had things in there that painted a fairly nasty picture of Obama.
We just saw one from McCain not too long ago saying "Paint him as a Job Destroyer" or some shit like that. I'm sure the Clinton camp had some crazy shit in their internal memos that will be nice fuel for the fire.
...but we'll see.
The Librarian
Banned
I'm excited now.:lolGhaleonEB said:
Amory
Member
mckmas8808 said:
They probably do like his policies...and that's fine. I read The Audacity of Hope, and truthfully I like some of his policies too, especially when he says he wants to put more money into biological research, since it's the field I'm going into.
And I never said I was "so smart and good about understanding McCain's policies". Voting republican inherently means voting for certain statutes that they're known for, small government, lower taxes, etc. Obviously the people here spend way more time than I do researching policy in this election, I never denied that. I'm a republican voting republican, and I don't think that puts me in the minority as I'm sure there are plenty of democrats who would be voting democrat even if they knew little about policy specifics.
Bush made it really hard for republicans to bring new young voters into the party, and it doesn't help their case that their current opponent is young, well spoken, and charismatic, regardless of what his ideas are. It's easier for the young demographic, who typically have little experience in "the real world" helping them decide what it is that they're going to want when they get into the job market, to vote for the man that is the polar opposite of the man they've despised for 8 years. I don't see 70,000 people "selling out" a McCain appearance. That was my point. McCain and Bush aren't the same man. Republican policy has looked the same for a long time, Bush just did a shitty job of putting it into action.
Amory
Member
thekad said:
Conservatives and republicans in general tend to side with each other...its the same on the left. McCain in charge and McCain supporting someone else in charge are two different scenarios. I'm not going to give up on the party just because one of their representatives did a bad job. If everyone was looking at it the way you are, only 30% of people would consider voting for McCain, Bush's approval rating.
Instigator
Banned
GhaleonEB said:
I predict coarse language, bloated sense of entitlement and praising Republican tactics.
Come on, scan those babies!
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Coming from an Independent, If the Iraq War never happened and McCain 2000 was running, I probably would've voted for McCain, or at least I'd have a harder time choosing who I wanted to vote for, unlike now where it's definately Obama:
What happened to you McCain.
What happened to you McCain.
soul creator
Member
I don't remember exactly where it's from, but I've always liked the quote "if conservatives by definition hate government, then why does it surprise people that they do such a shitty job of governing?"
of course, conservative/liberal can be somewhat vague terms so this isn't necessarily every single individual, but when you frame things in a way where government by definition is always bad/evil, don't be surprised that the people who frame things that way bring about a government that's useless and wasteful.
of course, conservative/liberal can be somewhat vague terms so this isn't necessarily every single individual, but when you frame things in a way where government by definition is always bad/evil, don't be surprised that the people who frame things that way bring about a government that's useless and wasteful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yCfI3VmL88
James Corsi, the guy that Hannity's had on almost all of last week trumpeting his anti-Obama book is a Truther.:lol
James Corsi, the guy that Hannity's had on almost all of last week trumpeting his anti-Obama book is a Truther.:lol
Dude... where have you been the last eight years?
Likewise. I was pulling for McCain back in 2000, but ended up voting Gore when Bush beat him. Well, I liked Gore too, so I'm not sure I would've voted for McCain over him, but I would've had to think about it at least.Jason's Ultimatum said:
Byakuya769
Member
JayDubya said:
With the current GOPs record on spending should the issue of spending even be on the table if you're trying to discredit a dem?
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