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PoliGAF Thread of First Debate Election 2008 - GAF doesn't know shit

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McCain's polling numbers in the tracking polls are bottoming out big time today, in the first day of full polling since McCain started going all crazy. I don't think that is coincidence-the American people I believe are judging his behavior as rash, confused, and erratic.

I think the election may have been decided in that room, when McCain didn't take a stand.

It was over at "the fundamentals of the economy are strong" while Lehman collapsed, IMO.
 

Barrett2

Member
Shinz Kicker said:
hey Poligaf, i was at out of town for 2 days and have no idea what this meltdown is, il go back and read some pages later today but i want a summary. stat.

In summary, you won't have a job in two weeks, milk will shortly cost $500 per gallon, and John McCain is defending freedom by attempting to cancel Presidential debates.
 

RubxQub

φίλω ἐξεχέγλουτον καί ψευδολόγον οὖκ εἰπόν
lexdysia said:
Reid and Dodd making a statement.
Keep us updated, I can't watch right now :(
 

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
kaching said:
I'd rather ask you if you really think that Harry Reid's call is what summoned McCain to Washington. Would a lack of a call by Reid have prevented McCain from asserting himself?

Yes. I'm certain that if Reid and other Democrats hadn't both publicly and privately (by urging Bush) to get McCain's involved, he would have no basis on which to suspend his campaign and put the debates in peril. If you recall, Reid and Pelosi where some of the first people McCain called after he suspended his campaign. Their cold reception then prompted the release from McCain's camp about the Democrat's shifting positions on his involvement.
 
CharlieDigital said:
He's a very personable, witty, intelligent, and -- at least this cycle -- evenhanded guy.

His work as governor ain't bad either.

If he'd tame the fundie bit a little more and mainstream his religious beliefs, he's a conservative I'd have respect for and would even consider voting for.
Yup...in January I wondered if it would be Huckabee vs. Clinton. I would definitely consider voting for Huckabee if that were the case.
 

lexdysia

Banned
RubxQub said:
Keep us updated, I can't watch right now :(

So far just a cal for bipartisanship.

Reid: So far all [McCain] has done is stand in front of the cameras.

Update:

Dodd: Executive compensation is non-negotiable. Taxpayers WILL hold a stake in the companies. Addressing foreclosures will be included.

Reid: Paulson and Bernanke must become more realistic. We must keep in mind main street.
 

Imm0rt4l

Member
mckmas8808 said:
This is horrible. I feel bad for the lady a little bit. Why didn't they vet her some more before picking her?

I don't feel bad for her at all, she deserves all the ridicule she gets for putting her own ambition before the country. Hell I don't even think she had any aspirations to be president, she's just an opportunist. she knows she's an incompetent candidate, you can see it in her eyes every times she's asked a question and beats around the bush. If she weren't on the ticket, I think McCain wouldn't have suggested pushing up the debates(and palins as well); Maybe I'm going too far but maybe we would have even had come to an agreement yesterday instead of McCain playing Maverick to alleviate palins ineptitude.
 

Evlar

Banned
Shinz Kicker said:
hey Poligaf, i was at out of town for 2 days and have no idea what this meltdown is, il go back and read some pages later today but i want a summary. stat.
House and Senate leaders hammered out a compromise bailout plan, McCain and Obama are summoned up to the White House along with the leaders of both delegations to the House and Senate. McCain meets with House Republicans before the White House closed-door session. The House Repubs tell him they aren't going to vote for the compromise, he does nothing to change their minds. Before the meeting he tells no one the Repubs are rebelling. During the meeting Paulson presents a "state of the economy" briefing, Obama peppers him with questions. According to reports from people in the meeting from both sides of the aisle McCain sits there like a lump. Later in the same meeting John Boehner, the House Repub leader, announces the House Republicans won't vote for the compromise. Shit hits fan, everyone storms out, and the compromise is declared dead. Still McCain won't take a stand anywhere, for or against.

Afterwords, Paulson literally gets down on his knees in front of Nancy Pelosi asking her to get the bailout plan passed. She tells him she isn't blocking it- the Republicans are. And Paulson agrees.
 

tak

Member
Shinz Kicker said:
hey Poligaf, i was at out of town for 2 days and have no idea what this meltdown is, il go back and read some pages later today but i want a summary. stat.
stockup on food and water
 

GhaleonEB

Member
BenjaminBirdie said:
I think the election may have been decided in that room, when McCain didn't take a stand.
There's a lot of moments like that lately. But his inaction when he had postured to come in and be the one to rescue us all is pretty damning.
 
VanMardigan said:
Yes. I'm certain that if Reid and other Democrats hadn't both publicly and privately (by urging Bush) to get McCain's involve.

It's important to note that they did NOT ask for McCain's direct hands-on involvement, only that his approval of the final bill would be required. He co uld have done what Obama did and just laid out some required, general principles of what the bill should have, and actually started to do just that, then he went all maverick crazy man instead.
 
worldrunover said:
Huckabee is like the McCain of 2000. I can't wait until 8 years from now when he becomes a partisan GOP hack.
Sadly this is true and the common pattern for recent GOP figures. Even Bush himself is like a nightmare version of the figure that ran in 2000.
 

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
lawblob said:
I have a different, more Maverick idea. I would like NeoGAF to SUSPEND its PoliGAF thread until this weekend. That will give me a chance to get caught up on homework and play more LBP and Dragon Quest IV.

Who called for your involvement in this thread? Bringing work politics into this thread will only slow down the discussion and possibly extend the poligaf meltdown. No. The debate thread MUST GO ON, and you should get your work done.
 

TDG

Banned
The Lamonster said:
Yup...in January I wondered if it would be Huckabee vs. Clinton. I would definitely consider voting for Huckabee if that were the case.
Holy shit, I wouldn't. I reepect Huckabee more than I respected any other republican candidate because he was a really genuine, outside-the-talking-points guy. But god, considering his stances, I wouldn't consider voting for him in a million years.
 
lawblob said:
I have a different, more Maverick idea. I would like NeoGAF to SUSPEND its PoliGAF thread until this weekend. That will give me a chance to get caught up on homework and play more LBP and Dragon Quest IV.


bu bu buh LBP... hows. MM need to sneak in a McCain enemy you have defeat.... O the political commentary LBP could make with pictures and brains that only know one stance on everything.
 

Haunted

Member
lawblob said:
So I assume everyone else on this thread isn't getting a damn thing done today? I have been sitting at my desk for the last hour, but I haven't even begun to look at any actual work.... This election is crippling me. I barely even played the Little Big Planet beta yesterday because I was F5ing so much and watching non-stop news. :lol
:lol I feel you, this thread is the only thing that could pry me away from playing Crysis.


Looking forward to tonight's debate.


Anastacio said:
How many hours till the debate?
It'll probably be in the middle of the night again here in Denmark. ^^
Denmark? Should be at 3:00 in the night iirc.
 

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
VanMardigan said:
Yes. I'm certain...
Oh, you are? After agreeing with me that McCain is a like a force of nature, too erratic and unpredictable to know what he would do in any given situation?
 
TDG said:
Holy shit, I wouldn't. I reepect Huckabee more than I respected any other republican candidate because he was a really genuine, outside-the-talking-points guy. But god, considering his stances, I wouldn't consider voting for him in a million years.
Eh, I didn't say I would vote for him - just that I would consider it. Let's just say it wouldn't be as easy a decision as Obama vs. McCain.

I think character is just as important as policies and Huckabee is an intelligent and respectful person - compared to Clinton who acts like just another politician (see: 2008 primaries).
 

pxleyes

Banned
Deus Ex Machina said:
When John McCain Came To The Rescue

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT-XgrrXADo

suicide5ke732.gif
As I said, if the media runs with McCain being the source of the problem, he's done.
 

tanod

when is my burrito
So if McCain doesnt show up to the debate tonight, that will mean he's made his mark on two financial catastrophes in two days.

Thursday: Blowing up the Wall Street deal.
Friday: Skips out on a debate that has been in preparations for over a year and that is costing the school and the commission of debates 5.5 million dollars.

What a maverick!!

*swoons*
 

Gruco

Banned
1) Bailout
What I find interesting about the whole process is how many genuinely good ideas have been floated out there. It seems to me this is not just a chance to reestablish the markets, but to strengthen them the the point where this type of crisis can be avoided in the future. And between Galbraith, Roubini, and the historical analogies in other crises, there are extremely effective ways to do both that a structured well from the government's financial standpoint. I hope, if anything, all this mayhem leads to one of those, because the combination of financial fear and populist outrage could theoretically be pooled into some really constructive legislation. At the very least, it looks like we're past Paulson's invincible, one-dimensional, 700 billion zero oversight loc.

Basically, what I'd like to see is a wide net, including both the RTC angle, as well as raising the FDIC limit an increase to the FDIC fund, then a fund to do a preferred share recapitalization when necessary (including preferences over bonuses), a homeowner's debt reduction fund. Then, you tack on the basic limitations to keep things from getting out of hand. This would include Stiglitz's idea to limit bonuses to SEC registrants to longer term earnings, and to have a small set transaction fee on trades, again to encourage long term positions rather than short term churning BS.

I don't think we'll get anything that far reaching though.

2) Horse Race
Looks like Obama is starting to break away. Between the convention bounce dying, Palin falling apart, and McCain's insane theatrics, I can really only imagine the gap widening.

Sometimes it's just funny to see how sad and predictable the whole process is. Palin was picked and most people who looked into it realized that she was a complete joke. Then she gave a good speech and the base was willing to overlook the fact that she's a joke and acted like a bunch of goddamn marionettes. But fortunately it's tough to hide being a completely clueless, zero-capacity, ideological thug.

It's also interesting how McCain's entire campaign, beginning to end, has revolved around a bunch of stunts and theater. For all the "straight talk" and "experience" and "Obama's just a good speaker" the man literally has nothing to run on other than cheap stunts. He doesn't get any basic economic concepts, Obama's foreign policy positions are being validated one at a time on a weekly basis, so look at what we're left with. A ridiculous call for ten non-debates, in a desperate attempt for free air time. An insanely stupid and random VP pick done to "shake things up" in exchange for the well being of the country if heaven forbid the man actually wins. A "cancellation" which isn't a cancellation, as if McCain was not only the chair of the finance committee but also the WD-40 that kept congress moving. And now he's playing with fire and trying to exploit a very real, very serious crisis.
 

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
kaching said:
Oh, you are? After agreeing with me that McCain is a like a force of nature, too erratic and unpredictable to know what he would do in any given situation?

Like a gun with no ammo. You tell me the scenario in which he could've done what he did without a prompt? As terrible as it's playing out even WITH his reasoning, you tell me. Besides, the accounts that have leaked on what happened (right after the Obama call) clearly show that he thought he had some Democratic support for his going back to DC.
 

3rdman

Member
VanMardigan said:
Again, Reid wanted McCain to get involved. Oh wait, only a little bit? Oh, too bad, that's not what McCain had in mind. They asked for his involvement. He got involved on his terms. This is what happens.

Why turn around the next day and say that you could easily work this deal out without McCain? If so, why call for him to get involved? It was stupid.
It was probably the preamble to a joint statement recommended by Coburn to Obama. Reid did it to put him and the other republicans on the hook...This deal will not (and should not) be done by democratic hands alone. This mess is their fault and they are going to have to get their hands dirty to fix it. McCain wants his cake and to eat it too by not committing but trying to take credit....fuck that.
 
lexdysia said:
Reid: Deal in principle was ready to be written down, then look who came to town. Everything fell apart.

:eek:h snap:
hahaha if the Dems can succesfully place the blame on McCain for the "cratering" of the bailout plan (and rightly so), it would all be over for McCain.
 

Brannon

Member
tanod said:
So if McCain doesnt show up to the debate tonight, that will mean he's made his mark on two financial catastrophes in two days.

Thursday: Blowing up the Wall Street deal.
Friday: Skips out on a debate that has been in preparations for over a year and that is costing the school and the commission of debates 5.5 million dollars.

What a maverick!!

*swoons*

Nah, just having Obama there fielding questions will be enough to make up for it. 90 minutes of the only candidate who grilled Paulson?

Hell yes.
 

tanod

when is my burrito
Brannon said:
Nah, just having Obama there fielding questions will be enough to make up for it. 90 minutes of the only candidate who grilled Paulson?

Hell yes.

firstread.msnbc.com

Basically says the debate can not happen without McCain because it would be an "illegal contribution."

Town hall can't happen.
 

gkryhewy

Member
Brannon said:
Nah, just having Obama there fielding questions will be enough to make up for it. 90 minutes of the only candidate who grilled Paulson?

Hell yes.

Chuck Todd said this morning that if McShame doesn't show, Obama will have some sort of Town Hall, but the networks will not air it.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Stoney Mason said:
She doesn't "blink" so there's no way she will ever step down. The only bad thing about focusing on Mccain's grandstanding on Capitol Hill has been the lack of coverage focused on Palin's meltdown.


No that's got some coverage too.
 

pxleyes

Banned
tanod said:
firstread.msnbc.com

Basically says the debate can not happen without McCain because it would be an "illegal contribution."

Town hall can't happen.
My opinion on that is McCain will have forfeited those rights by not showing up.
 
Stoney Mason said:
Sadly this is true and the common pattern for recent GOP figures. Even Bush himself is like a nightmare version of the figure that ran in 2000.

The thing with Bush is that there's like this huge steady drop off in IQ from when he was governor to today :lol
 

GhaleonEB

Member
tanod said:
firstread.msnbc.com

Basically says the debate can not happen without McCain because it would be an "illegal contribution."

Town hall can't happen.
Just got done watching the video (here). And yup, if McCain doesn't show, it's cancelled. Obama will have to do something else.
 

gkryhewy

Member
GhaleonEB said:
Just got done watching the video (here). And yup, if McCain doesn't show, it's cancelled. Obama will have to do something else.

On the other hand, McCain is having a live "Town Hall" on This Week with Snuffalupagous this Sunday, alone, so there must be some wiggle room.

If he doesn't show, Obama should have a PC with the assembled media, and lay down the law.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Slate.com predicts McCain's next 10 stunts:

1. Returns to Vietnam and jails himself.
2. Offers the post of "vice vice president" to Warren Buffett.
3. Challenges Obama to suspend campaign so they both can go and personally drill for oil offshore.
4. Learns to use computer.
5. Does bombing run over Taliban-controlled tribal areas of Pakistan.
6. Offers to forgo salary, sell one house.
7. Sex-change operation.
8. Suspends campaign until Nov. 4, offers to start being president right now.
9. Sells Alaska to Russia for $700 billion.
10. Pledges to serve only one term. OK, half a term.

http://www.slate.com/id/2200927/
 
So basically McCain gets a free ticket to no show. That is wonderful. Who wants to bet there will be no vice presidential debate either?
 
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