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PoliGAF Thread of PRESIDENT OBAMA Checkin' Off His List

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P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/05/dont_forget_the_mockery.php?ref=fpblg

Vice President Cheney's crew is putting out advances this morning on today's speech at AEI, offering 'praise' for Obama when he deserves an answer when he leads the country in the wrong direction. Clearly there's going to be a lot of mano a mano razzmatazz that the media tries to gin up around this. But for those who want to remain among the lucid, let's not forget who the former vice president is.

This is someone who not only organized and seemingly directed a policy of state-sponsored torture. He did it in large part to get people to admit to crankish conspiracy theories he got taken in by by a crew of think-tank jockeys in DC whose theories most even half way sensible people treated as punch lines of jokes. So it's Torquemada or 1984 but only after getting rescripted by Mel Brooks.

This is an extremely gullible man who has just come off being the driving ideological force in an administration that most people can already see produced more fiascos and titanic, self-inflicted goofs than possibly any in our entire history. By any standard the guy is a monumental failure -- and not one whose mistakes stem in some Lyndon Johnson fashion from tragic overreach, but just a fool who damaged his country through his own gullibility, paranoia and bad judgment. Whatever else you can say about the Cheney story it ain't Shakespearean.

So as we see the big reporters trying to put him on some sort of equal footing with President Obama today, let's remember that the great majority of Americans see Dick Cheney, accurately, as a clown. And mockery isn't just the most effective but also the most morally apt response to the man.

--Josh Marshall
Click to expand...

Check out the President's speech Live: HERE

And the former Vice President and de facto co-leader of the current Republican Party's speech Live: HERE



The thing to remember here is that on no grounds is Cheney on equal footing with the President, regardless of posturing (or the talking heads' ratings grab).
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
More errors found in CIA chart detailing congressional briefings on harsh interrogations

New questions surfaced Wednesday about the accuracy of a CIA document meant to settle who in Congress knew about severe interrogation methods approved by the Bush administration.

Three new errors appeared to emerge in the CIA's matrix of 40 congressional briefings on so-called enhanced interrogation techniques. Those techniques include waterboarding, a form of simulated drowning, which President Barack Obama has called torture.

The CIA acknowledged one of the errors but continued to stand by its version of events in the other two cases.

The briefing chart, widely leaked to the news media two weeks ago, was compiled by the CIA at the request of members of Congress after House Speaker Nancy Pelosi claimed in April that the CIA failed to tell her at a September 2002 briefing that waterboarding had been used against a prisoner.

That briefing occurred within weeks of the waterboarding of terrorist suspect Abu Zubaydah. He was subjected to the procedure at least 83 times.

Pelosi has been a frequent target of criticism from Republicans who are eager to argue that Democrats knew about waterboarding and did little to stop it.

The CIA chart states that a Senate staffer, Chris Mellon, attended a briefing on July 15, 2004. However, Mellon told The Associated Press that he left the Senate in April 2004 and did not attend the briefing.

On Wednesday, CIA spokesman George Little said the CIA has reviewed its record and agrees that Mellon was erroneously listed as having attended the 2004 briefing.

"The briefing chart was prepared in response to requests from Congress," Little said. "The agency compiled it in good faith after reviewing our records from 2002 to 2009. We didn't release it publicly, nor have we hyped it, and we have been candid in describing it."

The CIA matrix also reported that Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., then the top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, was briefed on Feb. 4, 2003. But it notes that Rockefeller received a "later individual briefing."

Rockefeller spokeswoman Jamie Smith said Wednesday that the senator was not briefed on the CIA interrogation program until Sept. 4, 2003.

Little said that "on the Rockefeller briefing, the chart plainly indicates that he wasn't there and was to be briefed individually later. That's in fact what our records show. The chart makes no claim as to if or when that briefing occurred."

The CIA chart also shows former House Intelligence Committee Chairman Porter Goss attended a March 8, 2005, briefing as a member of Congress. However, Goss was at that time the director of the CIA. He took that job in November 2004.

"On the March 8, 2005, briefing, we were true to the records," Little said. "Although Mr. Goss was CIA director at that time, the underlying records list him as chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. There's a record of an earlier briefing that lists Rep. (Pete) Hoekstra as chairman."

On Tuesday, House Appropriations Chairman Rep. David Obey, D-Wis., said that one of his committee staff members was erroneously listed as attending a briefing in September 2006. The CIA stands by its record on that count.

Obey's spokeswoman, Kirstin Brost, said the CIA was wrong.

"Our records are clear. Our records are detailed. They are mistaken," she said.

The CIA cobbled together the chart from notes, memo and recollections because transcripts of the meetings were not kept. It was sent to Capitol Hill on May 6.

CIA Director Leon Panetta acknowledged in a May 6 letter to House Intelligence Committee Chairman Silvestre Reyes, D-Texas, that the CIA's list may not be completely accurate.

"In the end, you and the committee will have to determine whether this information is an accurate summary of what actually happened," Panetta wrote.
Click to expand...

I would bold but the whole thing is important. Will FoxNews report on this and back off of statements regarding Pelosi's character? Probably not, but this is getting closer and closer to vindication.
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
Live Blogging Obama Speech <-- LINK
10:37 AM ... Obama's making a very powerful case for the familiar and powerful argument that setting aside our values to protect ourselves actually makes us less safe. Pulls in McCain, to make the point that both parties nominated candidates who opposed torture last year. Actually, takes a shot at journalists too for now doing their job in recent years.

10:40 AM ... Again, referencing McCain.

10:41 AM ... Here's the transcript of the speech, as prepared for delivery.

10:43 AM ... Obama: The existence of Guantanamo probably created more terrorists around the world than it ever detained.
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
10:49 AM ... Making the pretty straightforward case that no terrorist is going to escape from one of our supermax facilities. Enlists Lindsey Graham to make the point. Sort of sad that the point needs to be made because the underlying claim is so inane.
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
fascinating use of policy here. I think he's about to say that we're officially at war with Al Quaida so we can call certain detainees POWs. I could be wrong.

The point he's attempting to make is that we will build a legal framework to 'keep' people that can't be prosecuted. That will be interesting.
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
10:54 AM ... Obama, from the prepared text, addressing claims he changed his position on military commissions ...

The second category of cases involves detainees who violate the laws of war and are best tried through Military Commissions. Military commissions have a history in the United States dating back to George Washington and the Revolutionary War. They are an appropriate venue for trying detainees for violations of the laws of war. They allow for the protection of sensitive sources and methods of intelligence-gathering; for the safety and security of participants; and for the presentation of evidence gathered from the battlefield that cannot be effectively presented in federal Courts.

Now, some have suggested that this represents a reversal on my part. They are wrong. In 2006, I did strongly oppose legislation proposed by the Bush Administration and passed by the Congress because it failed to establish a legitimate legal framework, with the kind of meaningful due process and rights for the accused that could stand up on appeal. I did, however, support the use of military commissions to try detainees, provided there were several reforms. And those are the reforms that we are making.

Instead of using the flawed Commissions of the last seven years, my Administration is bringing our Commissions in line with the rule of law.​

10:55 AM ... Just as a sidelight, there seems to be a thought out there that it's much better to find other countries to detain some of the Gitmo detainees. This is deeply silly. If these are people you really, really don't want escaping you won't send them to any other countries. You'll incarcerate them in US prisons. The record in other countries, particularly in the Middle East, is not good at all
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
11:01 AM ... Key passage ...

As our efforts to close Guantanamo move forward, I know that the politics in Congress will be difficult. These issues are fodder for 30-second commercials and direct mail pieces that are designed to frighten. I get it. But if we continue to make decisions from within a climate of fear, we will make more mistakes. And if we refuse to deal with these issues today, then I guarantee you that they will be an albatross around our efforts to combat terrorism in the future.

I have confidence that the American people are more interested in doing what is right to protect this country than in political posturing. I am not the only person in this city who swore an oath to uphold the Constitution - so did each and every member of Congress. Together we have a responsibility to enlist our values in the effort to secure our people, and to leave behind the legacy that makes it easier for future Presidents to keep this country safe.​

11:04 AM ... Not about Obama, but Republicans are now calling for a one-person Truth Commission, only about Pelosi.

11:09 AM ... From the prepared text ...

I will never hide the truth because it is uncomfortable. I will deal with Congress and the courts as co-equal branches of government. I will tell the American people what I know and don't know, and when I release something publicly or keep something secret, I will tell you why.​
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
PantherLotus said:
10:54 AM ... Obama, from the prepared text, addressing claims he changed his position on military commissions ...



10:55 AM ... Just as a sidelight, there seems to be a thought out there that it's much better to find other countries to detain some of the Gitmo detainees. This is deeply silly. If these are people you really, really don't want escaping you won't send them to any other countries. You'll incarcerate them in US prisons. The record in other countries, particularly in the Middle East, is not good at all
Click to expand...


At 10:55 AM... was that from TPM's response or from Obama?
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
mckmas8808 said:
At 10:55 AM... was that from TPM's response or from Obama?
Click to expand...

Anything directly quoted from Obama is in block quotes. But to answer the question, the part you quoted is from TPM staff comments as part of the live blog.
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
11:27 AM ... Still trying. Cheney hinting at the Iraq/al Qaida tie ... "We had the training camps of Afghanistan, and dictators like Saddam Hussein with known ties to Mideast terrorists."

11:28 AM ... Cheney now seems to be arguing he was psychologically traumatized by the experience of watching the 9/11 attacks like the rest of us did.

11:30 AM ... Shorter Cheney: If you don't agree with my torture policies, you don't take 9/11 seriously.




note: I can't get the freaking video to work! bah!
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
PantherLotus said:
11:30 AM ... Shorter Cheney: If you don't agree with my torture policies, you don't take 9/11 seriously.

!
Click to expand...


Ok Cheney needs to continue being the face of the REPs, because that's a dumb ass statement.
 
A

AniHawk

Member
How does Cheney not get that being the face of evil for the last 8 years and speaking right after the really-popular-president guy is not a good idea?
 
S

Shiggie

Member
is he almost done because this shit is redundant. "They hate us because of our freedoms:lol "
This guy is an ideologue idiot.
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Shiggie said:
is he almost done because this shit is redundant. "They hate us because of our freedoms:lol "
This guy is an ideologue idiot.
Click to expand...


He didn't really say that did he?
 
L

Learn2read

Member
rnctweet.jpg


The "flaw" was slavery.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
Augh. I wish Cheney would go back to hiding wherever he was hiding before when Bush was president. I've seen more of him in the last few months than I want to in my entire life.
 
O

octopusman

Member
Ok, Cheney is going the 9/11 justification route again, defending torturers as Professionals.

It's ridiculous for information to be released sourced from EIPs, THOSE ARE SECRET, CLASSIFIED! Which is funny because he bemoans the release of torturings in the first place.

Another atrocious fallacy is that he attacked Obama because he has the ability to do IEPs. This, of course, does not mean that Obama has done anything to betray to partake in hypocrisy, just that he has the ability to do so. The ability granted by the Bush administration, as if he should show gratitude to them.

:/
 
L

lastendconductor

Put your snobby liquids into my mouth!
Shiggie said:
is he almost done because this shit is redundant. "They hate us because of our freedoms:lol "
This guy is an ideologue idiot.
Click to expand...
Let's give them up to fight them! yeah that makes sense.
 
G

gcubed

Member
i think the republican party still doesnt understand the abilities of the internet and the fact that you can no longer bullshit your way through anything anymore
 
K

Karma Kramer

Banned
Jesse Ventura framed this whole situation best... if Jesse and 10 of his fellow Navy Seals were placed around this country with highly powerful automatic weapons, rifles, explosives, etc... they could bring down this entire country in a matter of hours. Just look how quickly those two DC' snipers caused chaos in this country, and they were hardly professional... THERE IS NO WAY TO KEEP US SAFE. The Terrorist are winning when they effect our economy, our freedoms, etc.. that is their goal and under the Bush Administration they won in my opinion.

People need to stop being so fucking scared and accept its probably more likely to die from a lighting bolt then a terrorist attack.
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
gcubed said:
i think the republican party still doesnt understand the abilities of the internet and the fact that you can no longer bullshit your way through anything anymore
Click to expand...


It would be interesting to see a chart comparing the proliferation of high-speed internet access to Bush's popularity over time. While it would reek of "ice cream sales vs. deaths of the elderly" I think the underlying theme would be hilarious.
 
F

FLEABttn

Banned
PantherLotus said:
It would be interesting to see a chart comparing the proliferation of high-speed internet access to Bush's popularity over time. While it would reek of "ice cream sales vs. deaths of the elderly" I think the underlying theme would be hilarious.
Click to expand...

You have a mission...
 
P

polyh3dron

Banned
gcubed said:
i think the republican party still doesnt understand the abilities of the internet and the fact that you can no longer bullshit your way through anything anymore
Click to expand...
But the only people who can see through that bullshit are liberal bloggers (emphasis for epithet status) so it's OK.
 
G

gcubed

Member
PantherLotus said:
It would be interesting to see a chart comparing the proliferation of high-speed internet access to Bush's popularity over time. While it would reek of "ice cream sales vs. deaths of the elderly" I think the underlying theme would be hilarious.
Click to expand...

you can do that accompanied by republican losses in elections vs site visits to youtube, or things like that

they fail to realize that everything they do is now instantly available to everyone, in comparisons, detail, and forever available glory.
 
S

Steve Youngblood

Member
Isn't there some strategist somewhere in the GOP who's yearly salary is made just shouting "It's the economy, stupid!" That they're doubling down on national security right now is just baffling.

And Dick Cheney is delivering the rhetoric? The deck is stacked so strongly in the Democrats favor right now that it is very difficult to imagine how the pendulum will inevitably swing back in the GOP's favor.
 
K

Kitschkraft

Member
Steve Youngblood said:
Isn't there some strategist somewhere in the GOP who's yearly salary is made just shouting "It's the economy, stupid!" That they're doubling down on national security right now is just baffling.

And Dick Cheney is delivering the rhetoric? The deck is stacked so strongly in the Democrats favor right now that it is very difficult to imagine how the pendulum will inevitably swing back in the GOP's favor.
Click to expand...

Don't forget about his daughter. Liz is also a republican leader right now.
 
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