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PoliGAF Thread of THE END and FIST POUNDS (NYT: Hillary drop out/endorse Saturday)
- Thread starter Amir0x
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Amir0x said:Yup, the reality is Hillary is fighting this as hard as she can because she MUST... because Obama is going to win this year, and she knows it
This morning I became genuinely scared that she will take this to the convention, ruining Obama's chances for the presidency this year, and clearing out a spot for herself in 2012.
Please tell me this is crazy talk, and that she's not that power hungry.
CowboyAstronaut
Banned
grandjedi6 said:
Wow nice post. Things look very promising
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
Francois the Great said:
check out this poll
i don't know anything about the geography of VA, but obama beats mccain very handily in all regions except "shenando" wherever that is.
VA definitely has a good shot of going blue, especially considering the democratic leadership in the state.
PS. obama can win the election with just kerry's states plus iowa and VA
I made a map of how SurveyUSA divides Virginia up in regions:
So it shouldn't be much of a surprise that Obama loses shenando
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
AniHawk said:
I think that she would like to do this, but I also think that the media has been talking about this enough that people would remember in 4 years, her opponents would remember it in 4 years, and the media would remember it in 4 years.
Hillary's only realistic path to the white house now is in 2016
AniHawk said:
Well, I highly doubt she'll take it to the convention.
At worst, she'll keep threatening, and as Nancy Pelosi and others have suggested superdelegates and others will literally shut her out by drowning Obama in their support and removing any doubt who is the presumptive nominee leading up to the convention.
After that, it's all Clinton legacy scarring... and that's why at the end of the day, neither her nor Bill will actually end up bringing it that far. Neither want to be blamed with ruining the Democrats chances in November, when we really could create such a tidal wave of transformative change in this country that the electorate map will literally be rewritten for a generation. This threatening is just the last throes of a horrible beast, flailing as the final beats of her shriveled heart ring out. Obama and the politicians he brings with him will be the leadership of the party, and it will completely remove the Clintons from this primary position.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0508/10715.html
Billy Boy has identified why his wife lost. Everyone but her.
Billy Boy has identified why his wife lost. Everyone but her.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
MoveOn.org, the group that formed to save Clinton from impeachment. :lolTamanon said:
Found on Digg, but worthy of posting: Young Hillary Clinton
:lol :lol
:lol :lol
Just a heads up, CNN will be streaming the DNC meeting tomorrow morning: http://www.cnn.com/live/
Hellsing321
Member
Shit! I have to work that night. I'd kill to go to an Obama rally.DopeyFish said:http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=512750
obama is starting the GE campaign where the GOP convention is taking place
it's like a smack in the face
Tommie Hu$tle
Member
Hellsing321 said:
Did you say kill?
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
I wonder how long the circus will last...
speculawyer
Member
How many times can McCain make completely nonsensical statements about Iraq and yet somehow maintain a better standing in the public on the topic? I guess a lot of lugheads continue to want a know-nothing tough guy who'll continue to do stupid things?
maximum360
Member
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2008/05/26/DI2008052601813.html
Ouch.
Nevertheless, it isn't like we didn't know this already.
Ouch.
Nevertheless, it isn't like we didn't know this already.
maximum360 said:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2008/05/26/DI2008052601813.html
Ouch.
Nevertheless, it isn't like we didn't know this already.
It gets worse. From the same link, a response to another Hillary question:
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
Mandark said:
But Bill is only trying to save us from ourselves! Obama is unelectable after all due to his problem with working class whites in the appalachian area.
Meanwhile Hillary has no problems with any groups,
except for African-Americans, activists, Move-on.org, the internet, superdelegates, pledged delegates, realistic popular vote tallies, caucuses, the state of Hawaii, Illinois, young voters, TV pundits, red states, the rules and processes of the Democratic delegate process, John Edwards, herself from 2007, people who can remember farther back than 3 weeks ago, Drudge readers, college educated voters and reality
The Lamonster
Member
This McClellan shit is snowballing pretty heavily.
popcorn.jpg
popcorn.jpg
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24890836/
Chuck Godd outline the scenarios for tomorrow - what can, and what should, be done. Good read.
Chuck Godd outline the scenarios for tomorrow - what can, and what should, be done. Good read.
Before we get to the RBC circus, let's peek into the mind of an ardent Hillary supporter who likely represents the views of many of the protesters we will see tomorrow.
I feel bad for the Clinton campaign. Here they are trying to wrap up this primary and unite the party so they can move on to defeating McCain in the general. But the Obama campaign keeps picking on the scabs and continues to use divisive, sexist, and racist tactics. Poor Hillary.
Geraldine Ferraro's Boston Globe Editorial: "Healing the wounds of Democrats' sexism" said:
I feel bad for the Clinton campaign. Here they are trying to wrap up this primary and unite the party so they can move on to defeating McCain in the general. But the Obama campaign keeps picking on the scabs and continues to use divisive, sexist, and racist tactics. Poor Hillary.
The Lamonster
Member
Matthews: "Another big win for cable news!"DEO3 said:
On one hand, Geraldine Ferraro is crazy.
On the other, there has been a ton of sexist crap thrown at Hillary and a ton of criticism that took on a really unnecessarily sexist tone. The Obama campaign hasn't really been guilty of this, but some feminists who have some legit anger at what's happened are directing that towards Hillary's main opponent, which is wrong but understandable.
On the third hand, giving "Reagan Democrats" extra attention is dumb. Margins and turnout can be changed in any demographic group, and exalting one with a dwindling share of the population doesn't make sense.
On the other, there has been a ton of sexist crap thrown at Hillary and a ton of criticism that took on a really unnecessarily sexist tone. The Obama campaign hasn't really been guilty of this, but some feminists who have some legit anger at what's happened are directing that towards Hillary's main opponent, which is wrong but understandable.
On the third hand, giving "Reagan Democrats" extra attention is dumb. Margins and turnout can be changed in any demographic group, and exalting one with a dwindling share of the population doesn't make sense.
Mandark said:
Okay. Honest question.
What, exactly, is Hillary being denigrated for that is tied to her sex? I'm seriously baffled by this. Most of the time, when I hear the argument about sexism affecting her, it's always about how she wouldn't bow out when the math suggested she wasn't going to win, so that the party could move ahead. She didn't, and people like me- people who wanted to see the Democrats actually campaigning for the GE instead of being mired in the nomination process until it was too late wanted her to concede so we could get on with it.
I've tried reading Geraldine Ferraro's stuff to find an incident, an example, something to point to that suggests that somehow, gender played a part in this. All I've found so far is that there was an "undercurrent" of sexism. Fine. Show me the goddamn undercurrent.
Show me what this is based off of. I'm willing to listen.
Hey wait a second. I think I'm not looking at this from the right angle.
Let's think for a moment why some of these crazy people are voting for Clinton. She's a woman. They want to see a woman in the White House.
That's their mindset, that's their state of mind, whether they are willing to admit it or not. That's why Hillaryis44 is covered in pink. It's the color associated with women.
So then, when you having people thinking in that mindset, who becomes the obvious enemy? The people who vote against her because she's a woman. When you're a woman voting for a candidate based on their gender, than the immediate, polar opposite enemy is the man who votes for Barack Obama because he's a man.
So, when your major issue is gender, when that is what matters to you, than the election becomes simplified and condensed around gender! So then the only explanation that she loses in such a simplified and condensed race is again... gender! She lost because Barack Obama is a sexist!
And then, everything external is built around that to hide that truth! He's unelectable! His pastor is an angry man! He doesn't care about voters in Michigan and Florida! He lacks experience! He's a liar! He's a phony! He runs a CULT!
Let's think for a moment why some of these crazy people are voting for Clinton. She's a woman. They want to see a woman in the White House.
That's their mindset, that's their state of mind, whether they are willing to admit it or not. That's why Hillaryis44 is covered in pink. It's the color associated with women.
So then, when you having people thinking in that mindset, who becomes the obvious enemy? The people who vote against her because she's a woman. When you're a woman voting for a candidate based on their gender, than the immediate, polar opposite enemy is the man who votes for Barack Obama because he's a man.
So, when your major issue is gender, when that is what matters to you, than the election becomes simplified and condensed around gender! So then the only explanation that she loses in such a simplified and condensed race is again... gender! She lost because Barack Obama is a sexist!
And then, everything external is built around that to hide that truth! He's unelectable! His pastor is an angry man! He doesn't care about voters in Michigan and Florida! He lacks experience! He's a liar! He's a phony! He runs a CULT!
There's been a ton of sexist stuff in these primary threads at GAF. A lot of calling her a bitch or a cunt, a lot of ridiculing her for looking like a woman who has aged, and a lot of chuckleheaded defenses about why bitch and cunt are like totally not sexist terms.
In the mainstream media Chris Matthews' bottomless well of misogyny is the best example. There have also been articles on her pantsuits, on whether her marriage is a sham, on how much emotion she's allowed to display, on how ambitious she is. There's a narrative here that stretches back to 1992.
Which isn't to say that all criticism of her is sexist, or that she hasn't cynically tried to use the perception of sexism to paint herself as a victim and make valid criticism of her out of bounds. But there has been a lot of gender stuff involved in the attacks on her, just like there are a lot of racial issues that bubble up with Obama (he doesn't have any substance cause he's just a smooth talking jive artist).
In the mainstream media Chris Matthews' bottomless well of misogyny is the best example. There have also been articles on her pantsuits, on whether her marriage is a sham, on how much emotion she's allowed to display, on how ambitious she is. There's a narrative here that stretches back to 1992.
Which isn't to say that all criticism of her is sexist, or that she hasn't cynically tried to use the perception of sexism to paint herself as a victim and make valid criticism of her out of bounds. But there has been a lot of gender stuff involved in the attacks on her, just like there are a lot of racial issues that bubble up with Obama (he doesn't have any substance cause he's just a smooth talking jive artist).
Deus Ex Machina
Member
Mandark said:
There is a gender-factor, but of course it has been applied to this specific woman. Her being ridiculed because of her coldly calculating exterior is an example of this dynamic. Its origins are sexist to an extent: staying cool and rational at all times are qualities that are often praised in male candidates. On the other hand, Hillary garnered support when she got emotional while a male candidate would probably have been ridiculed as weak, so this door swings both ways.
But this critique is also specific to Hillary, as she is simply perceived as more calculating than most women (or men). Which has a lot to do with sticking by Bill while displaying little warmth towards him (seriously, has there been any genuine affection displayed between them in this campaign? She's shown a lot towards Chelsea, but none towards Bill). So it's not just sexism, even though that is a factor (possibly the starting point).
Meanwhile, this piece on HuffPo indicates that many Hillary supporters don't hate Obama, nor do they seem him as the main perpetrator of sexism. They do hate the media though, and they call Axelrod "Karl Rove on steroids" (and resent his implication that they'll come crawling back anyway because McCain is so much worse for women's rights). There may be hope for them yet -- Hillaryis44 is not representative of most Hillary supporters.
Also, I enjoyed this article in New York Magazine. The premise: yes, Hillary is gearing up for 2012 (or possibly 2016), but she knows her best bet in that case is to support Obama, not kneecap him.
Deus Ex Machina
Member
Mandark said:
Okay, good. That gives me some context. I wasn't sure if this was being manufactured out of whole cloth or just being amplified to a ridiculous extent (there's a little bit of each). It's a shame that some of this stuff still does to happen, but it's even worse that she's been riding that stuff for political gain. True feminism could end up suffering for it.
@ZealousD: Your first story was better (j/k). I agree with you that for the Hillaryis44 crowd, that's probably the case. Thing is, people's mindsets come painted this way in a lot of elections. There are people out there who will vote for Obama merely because he's black, or handsome, or male, or whatever. And I'm not saying either one is right/wrong. The curse of being given the freedom to vote however you see fit is that people will often vote for things that have nothing to do with capacity to run an office.
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