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PoliGAF Thread of THE END and FIST POUNDS (NYT: Hillary drop out/endorse Saturday)

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sangreal

Member
Seriously.. Obama has been pretty successful in tying McCain to Bush but he also needs to start calling him out more for the HUGE flip-flopper he is (he called him out during the debate some time ago, but hasnt talked about it much recently)

That really isn't a fight the Republicans want to start
 

sangreal

Member
Leonsito said:
Scarlett Johansson is a McCain supporter ? :(
? She had a prominent role in the Obama "Yes, we can" video

She has also talked about her support for him many times in the past

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1577733/Scarlett-Johansson-supports-Barack-Obama.html
California voters were receiving phone calls from Scarlett Johansson, the Hollywood actress, who in an earnest, recorded entreaty urged them to vote for Barack Obama in the primary, even if they were registered independents like her.
 

Leonsito

Member
sangreal said:
? She had a prominent role in the Obama "Yes, we can" video

She has also talked about her support for him many times in the past

Either way, shes still Canadian.

Ok, thanks, I thought I saw her in a McCain video in TV news in Spain, phewwwwww crisis aborted :D
 

Tamanon

Banned
Plus, that "editorial" was more whining about how little press Obama's gaffes get, which is really odd, because I'm sure he'd rather his gaffes get press.:lol
 
Tamanon said:
Plus, that "editorial" was more whining about how little press Obama's gaffes get, which is really odd, because I'm sure he'd rather his gaffes get press.:lol
That article lost all credibility and impact when they compared Obama's minor misspeaking (57 states) to Clinton's flat-out lie about Bosina.
 

3rdman

Member
Jason's Ultimatum said:
Down here in Florida, the lotto tickets you buy goes toward education.
Whoa...Florida legislatures pulled a switcheroo when they put the Lottery on the ballot. What people didn't realize was that the Lotto was REPLACING the existing budget thereby creating a net loss of revenue.
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
typhonsentra said:
Sorry, I mixed it up with Michigan.

http://www.surveyusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/vp-mi.png[IMG][/QUOTE]

Because every loves Edwards ever since he dropped out while Hillary is still polarizing
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
Clipjoint said:
It's definitely about name recognition, but the head-to-head numbers of Obama vs. McCain are looking really promising on a state by state basis. Michigan is the only one I'm disappointed in.

Just for quick reference, SurveyUSA has:

Wisconsin - Obama +9
Kansas - McCain +10
Michigan - McCain +4
Iowa - Obama +9
Ohio - Obama +9
Virginia - Obama +7
California - Obama +8
Pennsylvania - Obama +8
New Mexico - TIE

image > list :p

263xcew.png
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
the disgruntled gamer said:
Can you guys pretend I'm Ami, and catch me up on what's happened today and yesterday?
only if you use his avatar. Everyone knows the avatar makes the poster
 

thekad

Banned
pxleyes said:
you should know better. you have to give context.
Schuster was discussing with a Republican that recent Youtube video showing McCain's frequent flip-flops and flubs on the situation in Iraq (Mosul is safe). The Republican completely ignored the questions raised by the video and started babbling McCain talking points, ie Obama not going to Iraq in 2 years.

The Dem. on the panel pointed out how McCain having visited Iraq did nothing to aid his knowledge of the area, pointing to those aforementioned flubs and the Republican erroneously started hammering home how Obama misspoke about which death camp his uncle liberated.

It was pretty hilarious, especially considering the Republican seemed he was trying not to bust put laughing.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
And the Obama uncle thing wasn't really a big deal at all. That was a mistake on O's part, but the actual story was correct.

What about Hillay lying about how she got her name? Or how shw said small states dont matter until she won West Virginia. Or how MI anf FL should count after she said it shouldnt count?
 

mj1108

Member
Great article on Obama's foresight and planning:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D91018RO0&show_article=1&cat=0

Article said:
Obama used party rules to foil Clinton
May 30 10:48 AM US/Eastern
By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - Unlike Hillary Rodham Clinton, rival Barack Obama planned for the long haul.

Clinton hinged her whole campaign on an early knockout blow on Super Tuesday, while Obama's staff researched congressional districts in states with primaries that were months away. What they found were opportunities to win delegates, even in states they would eventually lose.

Obama's campaign mastered some of the most arcane rules in politics, and then used them to foil a front-runner who seemed to have every advantage—money, fame and a husband who had essentially run the Democratic Party for eight years as president.

"Without a doubt, their understanding of the nominating process was one of the keys to their success," said Tad Devine, a Democratic strategist not aligned with either candidate. "They understood the nuances of it and approached it at a strategic level that the Clinton campaign did not."

Careful planning is one reason why Obama is emerging as the nominee as the Democratic Party prepares for its final three primaries, Puerto Rico on Sunday and Montana and South Dakota on Tuesday. Attributing his success only to soaring speeches and prodigious fundraising ignores a critical part of contest.

Obama used the Democrats' system of awarding delegates to limit his losses in states won by Clinton while maximizing gains in states he carried. Clinton, meanwhile, conserved her resources by essentially conceding states that favored Obama, including many states that held caucuses instead of primaries.

In a stark example, Obama's victory in Kansas wiped out the gains made by Clinton for winning New Jersey, even though New Jersey had three times as many delegates at stake. Obama did it by winning big in Kansas while keeping the vote relatively close in New Jersey.

The research effort was headed by Jeffrey Berman, Obama's press-shy national director of delegate operations. Berman, who also tracked delegates in former Rep. Dick Gephardt's presidential bids, spent the better part of 2007 analyzing delegate opportunities for Obama.


Obama won a majority of the 23 Super Tuesday contests on Feb. 5 and then spent the following two weeks racking up 11 straight victories, building an insurmountable lead among delegates won in primaries and caucuses.

What made it especially hard for Clinton to catch up was that Obama understood and took advantage of a nominating system that emerged from the 1970s and '80s, when the party struggled to find a balance between party insiders and its rank-and-file voters.

Until the 1970s, the nominating process was controlled by party leaders, with ordinary citizens having little say. There were primaries and caucuses, but the delegates were often chosen behind closed doors, sometimes a full year before the national convention. That culminated in a 1968 national convention that didn't reflect the diversity of the party—racially or ideologically.

The fiasco of the 1968 convention in Chicago, where police battled anti-war protesters in the streets, led to calls for a more inclusive process.

One big change was awarding delegates proportionally, meaning you can finish second or third in a primary and still win delegates to the party's national convention. As long candidates get at least 15 percent of the vote, they are eligible for delegates.

The system enables strong second-place candidates to stay competitive and extend the race—as long as they don't run out of campaign money.

"For people who want a campaign to end quickly, proportional allocation is a bad system," Devine said. "For people who want a system that is fair and reflective of the voters, it's a much better system."

Another big change was the introduction of superdelegates, the party and elected officials who automatically attend the convention and can vote for whomever they choose regardless of what happens in the primaries and caucuses.

Superdelegates were first seated at the 1984 convention. Much has been made of them this year because neither Obama nor Clinton can reach the number of delegates needed to secure the nomination without their support.

A more subtle change was the distribution of delegates within each state. As part of the proportional system, Democrats award delegates based on statewide vote totals as well as results in individual congressional districts. The delegates, however, are not distributed evenly within a state, like they are in the Republican system.

Under Democratic rules, congressional districts with a history of strong support for Democratic candidates are rewarded with more delegates than districts that are more Republican. Some districts packed with Democratic voters can have as many as eight or nine delegates up for grabs, while more Republican districts in the same state have three or four.

The system is designed to benefit candidates who do well among loyal Democratic constituencies, and none is more loyal than black voters. Obama, who would be the first black candidate nominated by a major political party, has been winning 80 percent to 90 percent of the black vote in most primaries, according to exit polls.

"Black districts always have a large number of delegates because they are the highest performers for the Democratic Party," said Elaine Kamarck, a Harvard University professor who is writing a book about the Democratic nominating process.

"Once you had a black candidate you knew that he would be winning large numbers of delegates because of this phenomenon," said Kamarck, who is also a superdelegate supporting Clinton.

In states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, Clinton won the statewide vote but Obama won enough delegates to limit her gains. In states Obama carried, like Georgia and Virginia, he maximized the number of delegates he won.

"The Obama campaign was very good at targeting districts in areas where they could do well," said former DNC Chairman Don Fowler, a Clinton superdelegate from South Carolina. "They were very conscious and aware of these nuances."

But, Fowler noted, the best strategy in the world would have been useless without the right candidate.

"If that same strategy and that same effort had been used with a different candidate, a less charismatic candidate, a less attractive candidate, it wouldn't have worked," Fowler said. "The reason they look so good is because Obama was so good."
 

human5892

Queen of Denmark
The Lamonster said:
That article lost all credibility and impact when they compared Obama's minor misspeaking (57 states) to Clinton's flat-out lie about Bosina.
Agreed. Unless the author is suggesting that Obama was genuinely asserting that there are 57 states, I don't see the point in bringing it up; that is a remark borne out of weariness from constant campaigning and speeches, not a deliberate lie for devious strategic purposes. The foundation of the article is weak at best.
 
mrmyth said:
Where's that dude's left hand? Judging from her face......
:lol

oh man the look on both their faces!

It reminds me of that scene in Planes, Trains & Automobiles:

Del: Why are you holding my hand?
Neal: Where's your other hand?
Del: Between two pillows...
Neal: Those aren't pillows!
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
mj1108 said:

You know, every time I see article's about Obama's planning and the 50 state strategy, I still wonder where Oklahoma lied in all of that. I never saw a single Obama ad and Clinton won the state handily. Although certain parts of the state (namely the SE) have similarities with Appalachia, there's also a lot in common with those other Northern states Obama won handily, not to mention both Tulsa and Oklahoma City, with sizable populations. He should have done much better than he did in those counties especially. If he actually spent some time/money here he could have reduced that margin significantly, like he did in Texas.
 

Farmboy

Member
Deus Ex Machina said:
You are correct.

My point remains: why shouldn't name recognition be a factor? Especially with (relatively) little time left. Plus, the polling proves more than the fact that people know Edwards: it proves that at the very least, they don't hate him.
 

Triumph

Banned
ZealousD said:
You know, every time I see article's about Obama's planning and the 50 state strategy, I still wonder where Oklahoma lied in all of that. I never saw a single Obama ad and Clinton won the state handily. Although certain parts of the state (namely the SE) have similarities with Appalachia, there's also a lot in common with those other Northern states Obama won handily, not to mention both Tulsa and Oklahoma City, with sizable populations. He should have done much better than he did in those counties especially. If he actually spent some time/money here he could have reduced that margin significantly, like he did in Texas.
I think it had a lot to do with Oklahoma's geographic closeness to Arkansas. :p
 

sangreal

Member
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/30/1086950.aspx

"There are honest differences about how to move forward in Iraq, just like there were honest differences about whether or not we should go to war," Obama is supposed to say. "John McCain was for the invasion of Iraq; I opposed it. John McCain wants to continue George Bush’s war in Iraq indefinitely; I want to end it. So there’s going to be a clear choice for the American people this November."

"But that’s not what John McCain’s been talking about the last few days. He’s been proposing a joint trip to Iraq that’s nothing more than a political stunt. He’s even been using it to raise a few dollars for his campaign. But it seems like Sen. McCain’s a lot more interested in my travel plans than the facts, because yesterday – in his continued effort to put the best light on a failed policy – he stood up in Wisconsin and said, 'We have drawn down to pre-surge levels' in Iraq."

"That’s not true, and anyone running for commander-in-chief should know better. As the saying goes, you’re entitled to your own view, but not your own facts. We’ve got around 150,000 troops in Iraq -- 20,000 more than we had before the surge. We have plans to get down to around 140,000 later this summer -- that’s still more troops than we had in Iraq before the surge. And today, Sen. McCain refused to correct his mistake. Just like George Bush, when he was presented with the truth, he just dug in and refused to admit his mistake. His campaign said it amounts to 'nitpicking.'"

"Well, I don’t think tens of thousands of American troops amounts to nitpicking. Tell that to the young men and women who are serving bravely and brilliantly under our flag. Tell that to the families who have seen their loved ones fight tour after tour after tour of duty in a war that should’ve never been authorized and never been waged."

"It’s time for a debate that’s based on the truth, and I can’t think of anything more important than how many Americans are in harm’s way. It’s time for a debate that’s based on how we’re going to end this war -- not a debate that’s based on raising a few dollars for John McCain’s campaign."

"The American people have had enough spin. Just this week, we were reminded by President Bush’s own former spokesman of how it was deception -- not straight talk -- that misled the American people into war. It’s time to cut through the tough talk so that we can be straight with the American people about a war that’s cost us thousands of lives and hundreds of billions of dollars without making us safer. It’s time to end the political game-playing so that we can finally end this war. That’s what I’ll do in this campaign. And that’s what I’ll do when I’m President of the United States."
:D
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Triumph said:
I think it had a lot to do with Oklahoma's geographic closeness to Arkansas. :p

I don't think Oklahoman's give a shit about Arkansas. They're bigger hicks than we are!

Let me put it this way. Obama lost both of our college towns.
 
Guts Of Thor said:
So can someone explain to me the "Obama playing Hardball in Chicago" thing that is making it's rounds?
Being that it was Chicago politics, if the worst he did was still following the rules, that's not hardball there. :lol
 

Farmboy

Member
GhaleonEB said:
I just got done reading that and was coming over to post it. It's exactly what Obama needs to do, highlight McCain's many mistakes. It was brutal, and correct.

Gotta hand it to Ben Smith (who I know is hated here because of his shilling for Hillary, but who is actually quite respected even in the pro-'bama blogosphere):

Ben Smith said:
This verb tense thing is a novel excuse, with potentially wide future use on both sides. Hillary, for instance, could have been referring to the risk of future sniper fire. Obama, perhaps, meant that the U.S. will, at some future date, add seven states.

Snark-tastic.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Guts Of Thor said:
So can someone explain to me the "Obama playing Hardball in Chicago" thing that is making it's rounds?

Basically he challenged his opponents in his first state senate primary. They had to get ~800 signatures to be qualified, and the signatures they turned in were forgeries. That's considered "hardball":lol
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Farmboy said:
Gotta hand it to Ben Smith (who I know is hated here because of his shilling for Hillary, but who is actually quite respected even in the pro-'bama blogosphere):

Snark-tastic.
:lol

Well done.

In case anyone isn't reading the full First Read blog, here's where McCain "dug himself in" as Obama put it.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/30/1086713.aspx

At a press conference today in Milwaukee, McCain defended himself from Democratic accusations that he misspoke Thursday, when he incorrectly said that the US had "drawn down to pre-surge levels" in Iraq.

Asked in the media avail if he got his facts wrong, McCain replied by stating that US troops levels are down -- but said nothing of pre-surge levels. "We have drawn down three of the five brigades. They’re home. The marines [inaudible] are home. By the end of July, [inaudible] are back. That’s just facts, those are just facts. The surge, we have drawn down from the surge and we will complete that drawdown to the end -- at the end of July. That’s just a factual statement."

He added, "The important thing here is not that three of the five brigades are back, which they are and the others are coming back in July. It’s whether they would have been sent in the first place and succeeded or failed. Sen. Obama said that the effect would be the reverse. So, he has no fundamental understanding of the entire situation that warranted the surge, which led to the success."

But according to NBC's Jim Miklaszewski and Courtney Kube, the US has NOT drawn down to "pre-surge levels" in Iraq -- and they will NOT be at those levels even after the five surge brigades finish redeploying later this summer. The math is a bit fuzzy, but here are the facts: The US now has 155,000 troops on the ground in Iraq, and that is 17 brigade combat teams plus combat support forces. The baseline number of troops, now commonly called the "pre-surge level," was about 132,000 troops, or 15 brigade combat teams, plus the support forces (engineers, medics, cooks, etc).

Three of the five surge brigades are fully redeployed back to the US. The fourth has already begun to redeploy now (heading back to Fort Lewis). All five brigades will be back in the US by the end of July. When all five surge brigades are out of Iraq, the US will still have between 140,000 and 144,000 troops on the ground -- about 10,000 more than the "pre-surge level." Why? Most of the combat support and logistics troops will stay behind. So will the additional MPs, aviation forces, and other individual battalions sent over in bits and pieces as the surge forces arrived last year.

In a conference call sponsored by the campaign, Arizona Sen. Jon Kyl (R) also defended McCain's comment yesterday. "It's instructive that the Obama campaign, rather than deal with that real issue and Obama's lack of experience, is trying to nitpick the verb -- or I guess the tense of the verb -- about the surge troops being home. So that's the bottom line: The surge troops are all going to be home by the end of July."

"Take the worst possibility here, which is Sen. McCain misspoke. And that because of the specific words used, what he said was not entirely accurate, Ok, so what? What does that amount to? That's the worst possible scenario."
"So what?" seems to be channeling Dick Cheney.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
"Take the worst possibility here, which is Sen. McCain misspoke. And that because of the specific words used, what he said was not entirely accurate, Ok, so what? What does that amount to? That's the worst possible scenario."

This guy has a funny definition of "worst possible scenario". No, the worst possible scenario is that McCain lied so he could our current paint troop withdrawls as bigger than the really are.

In fact, misspeaking is the best case scenario here.
 
mj1108 said:


That just tells you so much. Between this and the knowledge he showed of the system in Chicago is proof that Obama really does his homework and shows great managerial talents befitting what we should expect from our next president.

Hilary really expected to cruise to this nomination without putting in the necessary work. She thought the real work wouldn't begin until she had become President. Everyone in life has to live through moments where they realize they just weren't good enough and that they have nobody to blame but themselves.

It's like when a kid enters a national spelling bee purely because they happened to have been the best speller in their third grade class, only to find out that when they make it to the big show they aren't quite as good as they thought they were. Or to be more precise, they aren't as prepared as they need to be. That's in a nutshell what happened to Hilary Clinton. So it probably makes a bit of sense why she's still finding it so hard to believe. She just can't accept that her dream has come to a grounding halt.


CNN is also trying pretty hard to push Hilary as needing to be the VP candidate aren't they? :lol They need to get over it because it ain't happening.

McCain tries to be the opportunist in jumping in support Hilary from the recent pastor statements as a means to make Obama look bad. A brief look may make it seem as if he's simply a concerned friend who doesn't like the style of attack, but the way he has been running his campaign leads me to believe otherwise. The real reason for him coming out in support of Hilary is for a deeper purpose. To drive home a potential racial rift between the 2 remaining white candidates and the black candidate.

It's a way of sending that type of message without outright saying it. It's pretty smart by McCain and shows clearly that his campaign isn't being run by idiots.

Where can I find this new National Poll that shows Obama killing Hilary by double digits? Jack Cafferty from CNN was blatantly happy with the result.


-------

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/30/1086950.aspx

Wow Go Obama! That's the way to take it to McCain. Whenever people start thinking our boy is soft he really shows some fangs. Oh and McCain was, in fact, caught in a lie regarding the troop levels in Iraq.
 
Jason's Ultimatum said:
Susan Sarandon says if McCain becomes president, she's going to move to Italy. Personally, that's a bit going too far. For me, I'll give up politics. :lol


I love Susan Sarandon. The fact that she's talking about moving to Italy is very serious. She's one of America's greatest accomplishments.
 
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