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[Crayon]

and you aren't one iota concerned that you rely entirely on China (a communist country) for Batteries and Cars?

I am so much as I think there must be a better way. Making more stuff here does sound nice. But how do you do that? I'm supposed to believe this is the solution? No plan has been outlined. No explanations are offered for the waffling. Just denial and deflection.

Who the shit is going to greenlight a new factory here when the situation is so totally volatile, and can change with a tweet at any moment? Where is the answer to that? THERE ARE QUESTIONS. Trust me bro ain't gonna cut it.

My problem is that I've not seen a shred of evidence to support the randomness and disarray of it all being part of some grand plan. The predominant argument is "they know what they're doing, just relax". Sorry, not buying it. We're supposed to chill out and suffer this, but as of now I see no fucking reason for it all. ie: I see the short term pain, but not the long term gain. I see long-term pain.

 

[StueyDuck]

I am so much as I think there must be a better way. Making more stuff here does sound nice. But how do you do that? I'm supposed to believe this is the solution? No plan has been outlined. No explanations are offered for the waffling. Just denial and deflection.

Who the shit is going to greenlight a new factory here when the situation is so totally volatile, and can change with a tweet at any moment? Where is the answer to that? THERE ARE QUESTIONS. Trust me bro ain't gonna cut it.

My problem is that I've not seen a shred of evidence to support the randomness and disarray of it all being part of some grand plan. The predominant argument is "they know what they're doing, just relax". Sorry, not buying it. We're supposed to chill out and suffer this, but as of now I see no fucking reason for it all. ie: I see the short term pain, but not the long term gain. I see long-term pain.

You do it by doing it.

The only denial and deflection are the ones saying it can't be done, so maybe we should just let China have full control then.

Sitting around and not doing anything but being concerned about doing something is exactly how nothing gets done.

Things may be volatile and uncertain right now, but at least something is being done, whether it fails or not.

Would you rather just not try anything?

You say there isn't a shred of evidence that there is a plan. Well, is there a shred of evidence that the opposite is the perfect solution?

The fact is, and this is a fact no matter which way you cut it. Things were always going to become more expensive, whether tariffs or because of inflation.

There is no world you and I can live in where things don't become more expensive. It's an inevitability

 

[mckmas8808]

you are very worried about your luxury items aren't you. lol. and you only seem to care about wheat happens RIGHT NOW. that's exactly the mindset that got the US into the downward spiral.

It's not just luxury items. It's 90% of ALL items! Yall keep saying "Short term thinking". But nobody wants to stated how long this "short term" is supposed to be. Is it 2 years? 5 years? 10 years?!

Not to answer for the guy but American academia is so fucked. From a young age, our children are taught that you must go to college and bury yourself in debt to be successful. If you have a 4 year degree in art history you are a more useful member of society than a plumber. All feels like a weird scam to keep the money flowing.

This isn't true.

Any one aspiring to be plumber, carpenter, farmer etc. will be a far more useful, productive member of a society than any kid with an art or social science degree.

Not sure about that.

 

[UltimaKilo]

China isn't a low-wage manufacturing country anymore. Labor in China is expensive compared to real low-wage countries Vietnam, Bangladesh, India, Indonesia and Cambodia. But what China has is the ability to produce almost anything to high standards. They've got the factories, the manufacturing chains needed to produce a product using parts from dozens of different suppliers all located in the same region or even in the same city and the sales people and engineers to turn designs from western customers into real products at a very competitive price.

The rising prices in China (and COVID) had already lead many companies like Foxconn, to diversify out of China: Mexico, Vietnam, India and to some extent, Brazil. However, there's no way the Chinese economy, which is nearly 60% dependent on access to the American market, can survive this, especially not in the state that they are currently in with youth unemployment at well over 20%. 20 MILLION manufacturing jobs rely on U.S. market access.

It's much easier for the U.S. market to (not easy, just easier) absorb the hit than it is for the Chinese economy, which will collapse as soon as they run through their strategic reserves. For instance, Apple has already placed an order out of Foxconn India to manufacture all 2026 U.S. bound iPhones (take into account that Apple has already been working on India manufacturing for 6-7 years and it was a rough first few years).

Because this is a video game forum, Microsoft, for instance, has begun to ramp up XBOX production in Hungary, India and Mexico and taking less orders from their Shenzhen, China facilities.

https://www.wsj.com/world/china/china-pmis-signal-weaker-than-expected-manufacturing-activity-543d7108

For these reasons, a deal will be reached. However, I really hope it addresses the IP theft issues. There's also no turning back: companies are going to continue to move as much manufacturing as possible, out of China over the next decade.

 

[Crayon]

You do it by doing it.

The only denial and deflection are the ones saying it can't be done, so maybe we should just let China have full control then.

Sitting around and not doing anything but being concerned about doing something is exactly how nothing gets done.

Things may be volatile and uncertain right now, but at least something is being done, whether it fails or not.

Would you rather just not try anything?

You say there isn't a shred of evidence that there is a plan. Well, is there a shred of evidence that the opposite is the perfect solution?

The fact is, and this is a fact no matter which way you cut it. Things were always going to become more expensive, whether tariffs or because of inflation.

There is no world you and I can live in where things don't become more expensive. It's an inevitability

You do it by doing it. Don't worry about doing something. Just do something. It's better than nothing.... whether it fails or not.

Your argument as as substantive and coherent as almost any I've heard so far, but I must have really high standards.

 

[night13x]

Now those libs cant get the controller!!! So much Winning!!!

/s

 

[StueyDuck]

You do it by doing it. Don't worry about doing something. Just do something. It's better than nothing.... whether it fails or not.

Your analysis as as substantive and coherent as almost any I've heard so far, but I must have really high standards.

Ok, it's easy to whine and complain, but the alternative is what? Infinite Inflation and complete control by China.

What is the solution then?

"Make better deals"

But no one is ever going to come to the table without coercion or by force; the same man who won't open up a factory now isn't going to open up a factory when there are no tariffs. He's making Billions off of slave labour, so why would he possibly do that when infinite inflation means he'd have to pay even higher salaries back at home?

So, what is the solution?

I mean, during this at least Apple has made some changes because of the current situation. That's at least a start, isn't it?

 

[Crayon]

Ok, it's easy to whine and complain, but the alternative is what? Infinite Inflation and complete control by China.

What is the solution then?

"Make better deals"

But no one is ever going to come to the table without coercion or by force; the same man who won't open up a factory now isn't going to open up a factory when there are no tariffs. He's making Billions off of slave labour, so why would he possibly do that when infinite inflation means he'd have to pay even higher salaries back at home?

So, what is the solution?

I mean, during this at least Apple has made some changes because of the current situation. That's at least a start, isn't it?

I don't know what the solution is. I'd be happy to hear them out. Heck, I'd be happy to hear this one out. But "Just do anything... period" is not persuading me. The short term pain is abundantly clear but the long term gain is for some reason a big secret.

And to be clear: yes - I'd rather have kept doing exactly what we were doing (what we are calling "nothing", ie status quo) before instead of this inscrutable chaos. I'm not an economist but I have learned that something is not automatically better than nothing.

 

[Schmendrick]

The rising prices in China (and COVID) had already lead many companies like Foxconn, to diversify out of China: Mexico, Vietnam, India and to some extent, Brazil. However, there's no way the Chinese economy, which is nearly 60% dependent on access to the American market, can survive this, especially not in the state that they are currently in with youth unemployment at well over 20%. 20 MILLION manufacturing jobs rely on U.S. market access.

60%...Bullshit...
trade with the US is merely 10% of China`s GDP . It may be one of the biggest singular markets but in the grand scheme it`s just one of many for China and the idea that you could blackmail them with that kind of trading volume is simply retarded.
India and other neighbours offering much cheaper labour is hurting China more than any kind of US tariff ever could.

anyways, wasn`t there some "no politics" rule on Neogaf? Surprised the thread is still going.

 

[th4tguy]

Trump was right. I'm tired of all the winning.

 

[StereoVsn]

Ok, it's easy to whine and complain, but the alternative is what? Infinite Inflation and complete control by China.

What is the solution then?

"Make better deals"

But no one is ever going to come to the table without coercion or by force; the same man who won't open up a factory now isn't going to open up a factory when there are no tariffs. He's making Billions off of slave labour, so why would he possibly do that when infinite inflation means he'd have to pay even higher salaries back at home?

So, what is the solution?

I mean, during this at least Apple has made some changes because of the current situation. That's at least a start, isn't it?

What changes? They aren't making millions iPhones in iPhone factories in US with workers screwing in millions of screws like our "brilliant" Commerce Secretary wants. They are moving production to India (and Vietnam).

They will assemble very high end AI servers for their own data centers in US.

The issues are many here. One is uncertainty like everyone else keeps saying which is preventing anyone from doing long term planning.

Second issue is complete lack of entire supply chains, tooling, supply chains for tooling and a lot more in US. We physically can't manufacture a lot of supporting parts and that's not changing any time quickly. The smart way to do this would be to "friendshore" or "nearshore" but instead US is in a trade war with the world. And that allows China to present themselves as the reasonable country.

And there are many other issues, but no point of arguing. Tariffs aren't necessarily a bad thing to implement on certain industries or perhaps instead of VAT. However the current administration is not going about this in a smart or reasonable manner. They are tanking the trust in US financial system and in US political system. That will bring consequences.

 

[Unknown?]

. They are tanking the trust in US financial system and in US political system. That will bring consequences.

This effects trust very little in the grand scheme of things. 1 trillion in debt every 100 days and 37 trillion total is the real reason trust has been tanking and it didn't just start under this administration but if all you do is follow mainstream, you wouldn't know trust was waning for some time.

 

[ReasonBeing]

*OG post deleted: too political, I don't want to talk too much about that stuff on here.

This effects trust very little in the grand scheme of things. 1 trillion in debt every 100 days and 37 trillion total is the real reason trust has been tanking and it didn't just start under this administration but if all you do is follow mainstream, you wouldn't know trust was waning for some time.

I would argue that independent media is now "mainstream", but there is typically even less room for opposing opinions and viewpoints through such outlets. You have to go out of your way to look outside the bubble.

 

[OuterLimits]

I want him to fold and drop all the tariffs. Bring back American production the smart way- by educating the populace for factory work and giving BENEFITS to companies who produce American instead of taxing everybody giving stuff to us.
Do things in a long-term way because you're not gonna build factories and bring back production in 4 years. Assuming the guy even lives that long.

Doing things the way he does now just means that we're not gonna get nice well built gaming controllers for cheap anymore. Along with a whole host of other stuff but for the sake of the thread this is the main idea

Agree to an extent but not sure that would be enough to change things significantly. You could dramatically slash regulations, offer significant tax rate cuts, and offer other perks but many corporations would still find it more profitable to manufacture elsewhere where environmental regulations are practically non existing and labor cost is enormously cheaper than domestic production. Therefore tariffs/protectionism likely still need to be a tool used if you really want to increase domestic manufacturing.

Keep in mind many countries practice varying levels of protectionism and have done so for decades. The United States was very protectionist during the industrial revolution but had not been so in decades obviously.

Granted, I have always believed the Alexander Hamilton philosophy that domestic manufacturing is the top priority of a country perhaps more for national security reasons than even economic. He believed subsidies and tariffs were necessary to achieve that. He has been proven correct over the years since. The North during the Civil War had a massive industrial advantage over the agricultural South. That helped them overcome a bunch of blunders early in the War. Obviously the industrial capability of the U.S. in WW2 was extremely important. Not only for the U.S. but supplying allies as well.

Now America has a 70% service based economy and pretty piss poor manufacturing capability. Not exactly an ideal situation if God forbid another world war ever happens.

Granted, this isn't to say drastically going from a "woohoo free trade, who cares that we are nuking our industrial capability" immediately to a "fuck all of this, time for hardcore protectionism" is a great idea.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

good. china's been screwing us a long time. and to those complaining this screws the US consumer. please grow up, its a freaking controller. go outside...

Calm down friend

 

[cartman414]

That kind of oversimplification is classic populism.

These topics are so complicated that it wouldn't make any sense to go further than sucks for the consumer.

That's idiot populism.

 

[calico]

The short term pain is abundantly clear but the long term gain is for some reason a big secret.

The long term gain is manufacturing will move to the US, or at least to somewhere which avoids the worst tariffs to sell to the US market. That will naturally happen out of necessity so long as the tariffs remain in place.

Unfortunately the modern Westerner is inclined to panic, prefers instant gratification no matter how unwise it is in the long run and is led by the nose by a media which serves the people who benefit most from unimpeded access to dirt cheap labour. Trump's biggest policy goals (ending the open border and imposing tariffs) if both successfully implemented pose an existential threat to that access, which is why he went from celebrated American icon to public enemy #1 overnight, why they tried (literally) everything to prevent him coming into office and why they will now do everything they can to prevent him succeeding.

 

[Crayon]

calico your post went from policy to politics fast so I'm gonna pass.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Are loads of Americans queuing up to work in factories in the US right now?

How is all that going?

 

[Randall365]

It will never really work, because the average Chinese salary is around $15,000 - so even if you move the 8bitdo factory to the US, the gaming consumer would have to pay way, way more for the controller (and that factory could not export anywhere else and make a profit).

It will be interesting to see what it does to 8bitdo prices elsewhere - will the lack of supply to a huge market mean they have excess stock to dump cheaply or does it mean they have to up their prices to keep profits up?

 

[calico]

Are loads of Americans queuing up to work in factories in the US right now?

How is all that going?

Ofc not right now; the factories shut down and went to places where they don't have to worry about paying the workers or the workers being adults, leaving decimated hellscapes in their wake. The consequences of decades of short-termist policymaking can't be reversed overnight. Unfortunately the fact that it can't be done overnight is what will likely lead the public to demand the attempt be abandoned.

 

[Kindjal]

However, there's no way the Chinese economy, which is nearly 60% dependent on access to the American market...

Lol, source: your ass

 

[rofif]

Sorry folks. 8bitdo got the best keyboard on the market…

 

[CuteFaceJay]

8BitDon't

 

[DragonNCM]

good. china's been screwing us a long time. and to those complaining this screws the US consumer. please grow up, its a freaking controller. go outside...

Yeah idiots !!!
Go get original controllers made in USA.....wait....they are made in China also as a consoles......my bad.....well......pay more....

 

[Zathalus]

Sorry folks. 8bitdo got the best keyboard on the market…

Its good compared to the mainstream such as Razer, Logitech, and Steel Series, but custom keyboards still rule, such as Keychron, Nuphy, Wooting, and Yunzii. You do pay more for keyboards of that caliber though.

 

[rofif]

Its good compared to the mainstream such as Razer, Logitech, and Steel Series, but custom keyboards still rule, such as Keychron, Nuphy, Wooting, and Yunzii. You do pay more for keyboards of that caliber though.

I loathe custom keyboards market.... Expensive shit you are expected to build yourself.
This is basically the same stuff but assembled. It is even hot swappable.

 

[Zathalus]

I loathe custom keyboards market.... Expensive shit you are expected to build yourself.
This is basically the same stuff but assembled. It is even hot swappable.

You can build it yourself, but most of them have pre-assembled options as well. Keychron and Nuphy are probably the most popular and all the models have various customization options if you want. It is expensive but you get what you pay for.

 

[rofif]

You can build it yourself, but most of them have pre-assembled options as well. Keychron and Nuphy are probably the most popular and all the models have various customization options if you want. It is expensive but you get what you pay for.

I don't find these keyboards very attractive. Don't care for linear and gasket mounts.
8bitdo is very cheap, has a style, is wireless, it just feels good. checks out all the boxes

 

[kruis]

Its good compared to the mainstream such as Razer, Logitech, and Steel Series, but custom keyboards still rule, such as Keychron, Nuphy, Wooting, and Yunzii. You do pay more for keyboards of that caliber though.

And if you're in the US you're going to pay even more with tariffs: almost all of these keyboards are "Made in China'". Yes, that goes for Logitech, Keychron (Hong Kong) and Wooting (Netherlands) too.

Wooting has a page up about the situation: https://wooting.io/zh-CN/batch-updates/reacting-to-us-tariffs

They'll honor existing preorders (which is going to cost them a pretty penny), but they will paused all future freight shipments to the US.

Logitech manufactured most of its keyboard and mice in China, but is now shifting some production from China to other countries in Asia while at the same time raising prices.

Loading…

www.reuters.com

 

[STARSBarry]

I just got my 8bit ultimate 2 last week and have been using it for Wilds. It's a very nice controller, a little small, I kind of wish it was like 15% bigger than it is. But it just works flawlessly and feels like a premium controller even though I paid less than a regular series X one.

The charging station is great too. Just immediatly connects wieleslly when I pick it up and disconnects when I put it back in.

 

[StereoVsn]

And if you're in the US you're going to pay even more with tariffs: almost all of these keyboards are "Made in China'". Yes, that goes for Logitech, Keychron (Hong Kong) and Wooting (Netherlands) too.

Wooting has a page up about the situation: https://wooting.io/zh-CN/batch-updates/reacting-to-us-tariffs

They'll honor existing preorders (which is going to cost them a pretty penny), but they will paused all future freight shipments to the US.

Logitech manufactured most of its keyboard and mice in China, but is now shifting some production from China to other countries in Asia while at the same time raising prices.

Loading…

www.reuters.com

Damn, I forgot about Keychron. Going to see if I can get another keyboard as my Razer one is acting up and I love how Keychron feels to type on.

 

[Astray]

Is this thing worth getting if I already have the original Ultimate Bluetooth? Wondering if I should grab one from Amazon before they go oos.

Here's a good review talking about the new controller and how it compares to the rest of the line-up

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

China has the upper hand here though. Other countries don't have the manufacturing facilities in place that China does. Nor do they have the dirt cheap labor. Like it or not, but the cheap labor is a big reason everything started getting made in China in the first place. China knows all this. They also know that these tariffs are not popular in the US. They can afford to be patient.

The labor part is huge even if we did remotely catch up on facilities people here in the US have to have higher pay to survive

My brother in law about 10 years ago or so started a lawn mower repair business out of his garage as a part time thing that exploded and he had to build an actual shop that has turned into a 6 bay massive building

He has said so many times finding good help is insanely expensive

We were just talking all things economic over Easter as I asked how his business was going and he is looking for a guy to just work on riding mowers and he said one guy he interviewed wanted $50 an hour and a $5000 sign on bonus paid up front IN SOUTHERN INDIANA

How are we supposed to compete price wise with a work force like that?

Just controllers like 8Bitdo would triple in price

 

[Topher]

The labor part is huge even if we did remotely catch up on facilities people here in the US have to have higher pay to survive

My brother in law about 10 years ago or so started a lawn mower repair business out of his garage as a part time thing that exploded and he had to build an actual shop that has turned into a 6 bay massive building

He has said so many times finding good help is insanely expensive

We were just talking all things economic over Easter as I asked how his business was going and he is looking for a guy to just work on riding mowers and he said one guy he interviewed wanted $50 an hour and a $5000 sign on bonus paid up front IN SOUTHERN INDIANA

How are we supposed to compete price wise with a work force like that?

Just controllers like 8Bitdo would triple in price

Labor wages are determined by supply and demand just like everything else. China has a shitton of supply. So much so that having something made there and then putting that thing on a boat and sending it half way around the world is cheaper than having it made here. Most western countries are never going to be able to compete with that.

 

[StueyDuck]

I don't know what the solution is. I'd be happy to hear them out. Heck, I'd be happy to hear this one out. But "Just do anything... period" is not persuading me. The short term pain is abundantly clear but the long term gain is for some reason a big secret.

And to be clear: yes - I'd rather have kept doing exactly what we were doing (what we are calling "nothing", ie status quo) before instead of this inscrutable chaos. I'm not an economist but I have learned that something is not automatically better than nothing.

The issue with the status quo is that it was inevitably getting worse. To stick to gaming, your Nintendo Switch games went from 60 dollars to 80 dollars, and it had fuckall to do with tariffs.

I'm not an economist either, but do we trust these economists? The same guys who did nothing and allowed us (the globe) to be in this situation (A shitty global economy funded purely on slave labor).

I am not saying Trump's tariffs are a perfect solution, not at all, but the status quo in the long term is undoubtedly worse, where what is happening now is still in the air on how it's going to turn out.

Which is exactly my point, the choices were, infinite inflation till your cozy income doesn't remain cozy anymore or something else.

What changes? They aren't making millions iPhones in iPhone factories in US with workers screwing in millions of screws like our "brilliant" Commerce Secretary wants. They are moving production to India (and Vietnam).

They will assemble very high end AI servers for their own data centers in US.

The issues are many here. One is uncertainty like everyone else keeps saying which is preventing anyone from doing long term planning.

Second issue is complete lack of entire supply chains, tooling, supply chains for tooling and a lot more in US. We physically can't manufacture a lot of supporting parts and that's not changing any time quickly. The smart way to do this would be to "friendshore" or "nearshore" but instead US is in a trade war with the world. And that allows China to present themselves as the reasonable country.

And there are many other issues, but no point of arguing. Tariffs aren't necessarily a bad thing to implement on certain industries or perhaps instead of VAT. However the current administration is not going about this in a smart or reasonable manner. They are tanking the trust in US financial system and in US political system. That will bring consequences.

Apple making any changes even if it's just the data centres is the idea here.

I do find it interesting that the idea of a blue collar worker in the US is some absolutely insane idea. Don't you see that it is the issue, that these big companies refuse to keep business in house, at home.

there are many issues, but there are even greater issues with what the status quo once was. friendshoring and nearshoring was only ever going to happen if you can get the big dogs to come to the table, and why would they?

Why would any business do anything other than that which maximizes their profit year on year.

All these "perfect scenarios" were never going to happen, I just don't see why everything is absolutely the worst thing ever when opposite was an actual definitive shit show instead of an unknown one.

Oh no we can't forsee the future so lets just pick the shit path, it's such a weird mentality I'm seeing from people.

The world and the global economy needs change, I am not happy that it's Trump and his tariffs that were the only option but at least it's something.

Better than the whole world ending up like Zimbabwe where you just print more money to solve all problems.

 

[violence]

I went ahead and bought a transparent pro 2 controller even though I already own a gray non Hall effect one. I'm a sucker for transparency.

I'm sure the tariff situation will immediately be resolved now that I've done this.

 

[Renozokii]

Ofc not right now; the factories shut down and went to places where they don't have to worry about paying the workers or the workers being adults, leaving decimated hellscapes in their wake. The consequences of decades of short-termist policymaking can't be reversed overnight. Unfortunately the fact that it can't be done overnight is what will likely lead the public to demand the attempt be abandoned.

Good. Fuck working in factories. Americans don't want to do it, have shown many times that for even livable wage they will look down upon it as a shit job. Use china and countries like it to import the stuff and focus on making sure better jobs pay more and are more sustainable.

 

[Unknown?]

The issue with the status quo is that it was inevitably getting worse. To stick to gaming, your Nintendo Switch games went from 60 dollars to 80 dollars, and it had fuckall to do with tariffs.

I'm not an economist either, but do we trust these economists? The same guys who did nothing and allowed us (the globe) to be in this situation (A shitty global economy funded purely on slave labor).

I am not saying Trump's tariffs are a perfect solution, not at all, but the status quo in the long term is undoubtedly worse, where what is happening now is still in the air on how it's going to turn out.

Which is exactly my point, the choices were, infinite inflation till your cozy income doesn't remain cozy anymore or something else.


Apple making any changes even if it's just the data centres is the idea here.

I do find it interesting that the idea of a blue collar worker in the US is some absolutely insane idea. Don't you see that it is the issue, that these big companies refuse to keep business in house, at home.

there are many issues, but there are even greater issues with what the status quo once was. friendshoring and nearshoring was only ever going to happen if you can get the big dogs to come to the table, and why would they?

Why would any business do anything other than that which maximizes their profit year on year.

All these "perfect scenarios" were never going to happen, I just don't see why everything is absolutely the worst thing ever when opposite was an actual definitive shit show instead of an unknown one.

Oh no we can't forsee the future so lets just pick the shit path, it's such a weird mentality I'm seeing from people.

The world and the global economy needs change, I am not happy that it's Trump and his tariffs that were the only option but at least it's something.

Better than the whole world ending up like Zimbabwe where you just print more money to solve all problems.

Yes the status quo was worse. All of these people wishing for this to stop and go down the same path we were lack a fundamental understanding of our monetary system and how bad things are. Not saying what we have now is better but how things were going would lead to another dark age if nothing changed and it still will happen if we don't stop spending out of our means.

 

[Schmendrick]

The issue with the status quo is that it was inevitably getting worse. To stick to gaming, your Nintendo Switch games went from 60 dollars to 80 dollars, and it had fuckall to do with tariffs.

I'm not an economist either, but do we trust these economists? The same guys who did nothing and allowed us (the globe) to be in this situation (A shitty global economy funded purely on slave labor).

I am not saying Trump's tariffs are a perfect solution, not at all, but the status quo in the long term is undoubtedly worse, where what is happening now is still in the air on how it's going to turn out.

Which is exactly my point, the choices were, infinite inflation till your cozy income doesn't remain cozy anymore or something else.


Apple making any changes even if it's just the data centres is the idea here.

I do find it interesting that the idea of a blue collar worker in the US is some absolutely insane idea. Don't you see that it is the issue, that these big companies refuse to keep business in house, at home.

there are many issues, but there are even greater issues with what the status quo once was. friendshoring and nearshoring was only ever going to happen if you can get the big dogs to come to the table, and why would they?

Why would any business do anything other than that which maximizes their profit year on year.

All these "perfect scenarios" were never going to happen, I just don't see why everything is absolutely the worst thing ever when opposite was an actual definitive shit show instead of an unknown one.

Oh no we can't forsee the future so lets just pick the shit path, it's such a weird mentality I'm seeing from people.

The world and the global economy needs change, I am not happy that it's Trump and his tariffs that were the only option but at least it's something.

Better than the whole world ending up like Zimbabwe where you just print more money to solve all problems.

"We have to do something, no matter how stupid"
you're whining about global supply chain organisation while basically being at odds with how our financial system fundamentally works....lol. you probably should read up on why inflation exists...
This is blind and stupid activism directed at everything and nothing while trusting in billionaires to fundamentally change the system that made them billionaires.
..... Do I even have to point out how stupid this is?

"Apple making changes is the idea here"
creating subsidiaries in the slave labour country right next to the other slave labour country....
Great Idea, so much win.
I'd facepalm here but I don't have enough hands.

 

[Fabieter]

Better than the whole world ending up like Zimbabwe where you just print more money to solve all problems.

Who ended the gold standard, and why?
Those two questions are at the core of the global mess we're living in today.

Honestly, I don't even know where to begin and let's be real, the whole China situation was designed to benefit the United States in the long run. It would have been way worse if usa didn't push china as they did.

If anyone out there truly believes this 'new world order' is going to make life better for the average person, I've got a massive bridge to sell you.

 

[Fabieter]

Yes the status quo was worse. All of these people wishing for this to stop and go down the same path we were lack a fundamental understanding of our monetary system and how bad things are. Not saying what we have now is better but how things were going would lead to another dark age if nothing changed and it still will happen if we don't stop spending out of our means.

Normally situations like that end in a big disaster like another catastrophic war so everyone who survives can build on it again. There is no way this won't end in a complete shitshow.

 

[Unknown?]

"We have to do something, no matter how stupid"
you're whining about global supply chain organisation while basically being at odds with how our financial system fundamentally works....lol. you probably should read up on why inflation exists...
This is blind and stupid activism directed at everything and nothing while trusting in billionaires to fundamentally change the system that made them billionaires.
..... Do I even have to point out how stupid this is?

"Apple making changes is the idea here"
creating subsidiaries in the slave labour country right next to the other slave labour country....
Great Idea, so much win.
I'd facepalm here but I don't have enough hands.

Most of the billionaires are beneficiaries of the monetary system but they did not create it and most likely don't understand it as most economists and finance guys don't even know how it works. When you can create new money out of thin air, those closest to the money machines benefit most at the expense of everyone else losing purchasing power.

I think the guy you quoted knows why inflation exists as he understands that our only solution post WW1 has been to print more money.

 

[Fabieter]

I think the guy you quoted knows why inflation exists as he understands that our only solution post WW1 has been to print more money.

We couldn't print money infinitely until 1971 when the gold standard was dropped. It was used to further fund the Vietnam war.

 

[Unknown?]

We couldn't print money infinitely until 1971 when the gold standard was dropped. It was used to further fund the Vietnam war.

Not infinitely like we can now but we did print more than we could back up with gold. By 1971 our bluff was called and we were forced to end the gold standard since we could not honor it, essentially a default(again after defaulting in 1933), and after that things went south FAST.

I suppose I did word it improperly though. It wasn't our only solution, it was just the one our government chose.

WTF Happened In 1971?

https://inflationdata.com/articles/2022/08/10/u-s-cumulative-inflation-since-1913/ "I don't believe we shall ever have a good money again before we take the thing out of the hands of government, that is, we can't take it violently out of the hands of government, all we can do is by some sly...

wtfhappenedin1971.com

 

[calico]

Good. Fuck working in factories. Americans don't want to do it

Yeah, Americans were famously delighted when the factory left their town and they got to watch their communities turn into something out of Fallout.

Not that it really matters: allowing a global adversary to manufacture so much of what you need is too stupid a policy to survive long term. It will either end gradually on America's terms or it will end catastrophically.

 

[Boneless]

good. china's been screwing us a long time. and to those complaining this screws the US consumer. please grow up, its a freaking controller. go outside...

Go outside... says a dude who spends his days on a gaming forum.

 

[Fabieter]

Not infinitely like we can now but we did print more than we could back up with gold. By 1971 our bluff was called and we were forced to end the gold standard since we could not honor it, essentially a default(again after defaulting in 1933), and after that things went south FAST.

I suppose I did word it improperly though. It wasn't our only solution, it was just the one our government chose.

WTF Happened In 1971?

https://inflationdata.com/articles/2022/08/10/u-s-cumulative-inflation-since-1913/ "I don't believe we shall ever have a good money again before we take the thing out of the hands of government, that is, we can't take it violently out of the hands of government, all we can do is by some sly...

wtfhappenedin1971.com

Yeah, you're right but I still think the countless wars between 1950 and 1975 added so much pressure to the system that it's fair to say the military-industrial complex played a major role in where we are today. The Cold War wasn't just one conflict; it was a series of smaller ones all over the globe, and that constant spending and intervention seriously damaged the long-term health of the economy.

 

[Unknown?]

Yeah, you're right but I still think the countless wars between 1950 and 1975 added so much pressure to the system that it's fair to say the military-industrial complex played a major role in where we are today. The Cold War wasn't just one conflict; it was a series of smaller ones all over the globe, and that constant spending and intervention seriously damaged the long-term health of the economy.

Hit the nail on the head and it's very sad. All those wars were initiated by bankers(who used the military industrial complex) for profit which destroyed our monetary system.

There's a very good, short, and easy to understand video on YouTube called, "All Wars are Banker's Wars" that explains all of these wars.

 

[PlayStaytion]

VG Journalism to me is showing what the average person may miss in video games with zero biases and it could be rated between 3 up to 10 respectively without causing divisions between players.