Sickboy007
Member
Say what you want, but just the fact that he's incredibly unpopular with the more retrograde branches of Catholicism (unlike his predecessor) is hugely satisfying.
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Pope Francis appears to be pushing reform on contraception/marriage/homosexuality
- Thread starter viciouskillersquirrel
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speculawyer
Member
He's the pope. Can't he just go rogue on this and declare homosexuality and birth control is cool? I'm the pope! I'm infallible on church doctrine. Birth control for all and love who ever you want!
Would be awesome.
Would be awesome.
Maintenance
Member
He's the best argentine that I've ever seen, that's for sure.
What a load of bullshit.
Francis is not nearly as revolutionary as the media likes to make him seem. Just like the current Synod is being pushed in media circles as much bigger than it really is. The Bulk of this Synod is the approach to divorcees while comments will be taken on other topics.
Realistically the last 3 popes including Francis have been doctrinally pretty much similar. Issue is it went like this. Charismatic Pope widely loved then a Book Nerd Pope and now again a Charismatic Pope.
Book Nerd Pope was highly intellectual so spoke in a less approachable sense but continued his predecessors marching path. But from the very get go he was a marked target with the Nazi youth stuff etc
Now we have another Charismatic Pope following the path of the prior 2 but he's popular because he is charismatic and words twistable enough for the media to say he said this while he really says that.
Realistically the last 3 popes including Francis have been doctrinally pretty much similar. Issue is it went like this. Charismatic Pope widely loved then a Book Nerd Pope and now again a Charismatic Pope.
Book Nerd Pope was highly intellectual so spoke in a less approachable sense but continued his predecessors marching path. But from the very get go he was a marked target with the Nazi youth stuff etc
Now we have another Charismatic Pope following the path of the prior 2 but he's popular because he is charismatic and words twistable enough for the media to say he said this while he really says that.
Stopmotionkai
Neo Member
I really like this pope 
BeatResetsTheWorld
Banned
You should watch Black Jesus, because that's basically what he does.
On topic, I'm loving this Pope!
titiklabingapat
Member
If true, this could finally push for gay equality and better birth control in my home country, the Philippines. They take anything that the Catholic church say seriously.
AlexMeloche
Member
I can already imagine the tears from the homophobic if the Pope says that homosexuality is okay.
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
I can already imagine the tears from the homophobic if the Pope says that homosexuality is okay.
I can already imagine the instant "I was pro homosexuality all along!" flip that will happen, almost like a light switch
ComputerMKII
Banned
Where can I read the original report?
obin_gam
Member
Lucky Forward
Member
I wonder how they plan to contradict Jesus' actual words on this topic:
Mark 10:11-12 said:
I believe the Catholic teaching is you can't receive communion if your soul is not in a state of grace, but how can it be in a state of grace if you're committing adultery according to Jesus?
metalslimer
Member
Not that i mind the shift on homosexuality, but this it is frustrating that this is just another issue the church is essentially going to retcon because they are on the wrong side of an opinion shift. Also when it does happen, the divide between evangelicals and catholics is just going to get even wider. Unfortunately this won't negate evangelicals influence in Africa assuming any of this does happen.
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
Religion in Europe's been fighting a losing battle ever since the Enlightenment.
Having said that, I've read convincing arguments that the reformation was one of the driving forces behind European advancement and supremacy in the 18th-20th century.
It's kind of sad when the 'stunning shift' is really just a softening of language.
But that is good for people who hold themselves to Catholic teaching.
But, again, also sad that some people need bishops to tell them to be more welcoming/valuing of gay people...
I also find the reference to children 'who live with same sex couples' (as opposed to the children of same sex couples) to be...subtly naive if not devaluing.
HOWEVER, I didn't expect any positive note at all on the subject of same sex couples. Acknowledging there is some value in 'homosexual unions' is a step forward, even if they're very adamant that the moral predicament of homosexual acts remains. That language will help some people out, I think, in helping persuade other loved ones who may be very 'Catholic', of the value of their relationship.
But that is good for people who hold themselves to Catholic teaching.
But, again, also sad that some people need bishops to tell them to be more welcoming/valuing of gay people...
I also find the reference to children 'who live with same sex couples' (as opposed to the children of same sex couples) to be...subtly naive if not devaluing.
HOWEVER, I didn't expect any positive note at all on the subject of same sex couples. Acknowledging there is some value in 'homosexual unions' is a step forward, even if they're very adamant that the moral predicament of homosexual acts remains. That language will help some people out, I think, in helping persuade other loved ones who may be very 'Catholic', of the value of their relationship.
Baby steps but they are steps and it's a big difference to Pope Benedict using phrases "like intrinsically disordered"
He'd probably get shot in the back of the head by the police for aggressively tying his shoes in front of an officer.
Unless he was born in the Middle East or the UK and stays far away from America then he actually has a chance of living until he dies for our sins.
jesus is black
Baron Doggystyle von Woof
Member
best pope EVER.
He has some amazing quotes:
He has some amazing quotes:
DoktorEvil
Banned
The Evangelicals/Baptists/Fundamentalists don't acknowledge the Pope anyways.
I'm all for a more welcoming Roman Catholic Church, the numbers are terrible at Mass.
I don't see the Pope breaking on gay marriage in Catholic tradition though.
Yeah, if you ever read about interfaith conferences, this is usually the main theme.
Still a popular phrase with the significant parts of the hierarchy apparently:
http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovemen...pose_children_to_aggressive_homosexual_agenda
But now children should not be around gay people at all. Fucking awesome.
So the Raymond Burke mentioned above has been demoted to a ceremonial role.
http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/cardinal-burke-reportedly-confirms-vatican-ouster
Asked who told him he said "Who do you think?".
He's been outspoken in his criticism of the direction of the synod and the release of the Relatio document.
I think this picture pretty much sums up Francis right now:
It's obvious he and some other bishops want to at least be open to a change of tone, while people like Burke and certain Bishops from Africa and elsewhere are resistant to any softening of language at all it seems.
To me it's just very revealing how arbitrary the whole thing is. All these different people all consider themselves very much to be Catholic, all with - it seems - differing interpretations of things. And politics will decide who comes out on top.
http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/cardinal-burke-reportedly-confirms-vatican-ouster
Asked who told him he said "Who do you think?".
He's been outspoken in his criticism of the direction of the synod and the release of the Relatio document.
I think this picture pretty much sums up Francis right now:
It's obvious he and some other bishops want to at least be open to a change of tone, while people like Burke and certain Bishops from Africa and elsewhere are resistant to any softening of language at all it seems.
To me it's just very revealing how arbitrary the whole thing is. All these different people all consider themselves very much to be Catholic, all with - it seems - differing interpretations of things. And politics will decide who comes out on top.
Devolution
Member
If he manages to get the Church to push condoms and birth control instead of vilifying them holy shit.
Bornstellar
Member
Y'all talking about JC hanging out with potheads, etc. realize that he would do so in order to call them to repentance, right?
He's not pushing for that. I don't think the Church will ever adopt a carte blanche approach to contraception. But he is trying to be more compassionate about these things. Even a change of language in pastoral care around these issues is too much for some though.
Devolution
Member
That's unfortunate because they could easily be more about that and have the means/distribution to help people be more sexually responsible. =/.
Pennywise83
Banned
You have to look at numbers, though.
60% of today's Brazil population might be higher than 90% of 1970's Brazil population.
CadetMahoney
Member
GasProblem
Member
Aaaand they voted against any modernisation/reforms. Suprise! Not really.
Necromanti
Member
Isn't this the polar opposite of what the majority of his audience would want to hear, though? He's definitely not going all out, but he's being quite--what do they call it these days?--"politically incorrect". It's a step towards change, but people tend to have a lot of inertia.
Francis is still pushing for the rejected portions to be published anyway. I wonder how much longer it will be before he pushes for reforms even with opposition.
I'm not sure they've voted on anything - this is a process that ultimately ends next year I think, with Francis issuing a final 'exhortation' or something - but they have put out a 'revised' Relatio document that rows back on a lot of what was hailed in the original. Unfortunate.
teruterubozu
Member
It looks like they changed the language though, as in eliminated all passages referring to gays and divorced members:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...ishops-scrap-opening-to-gays-divorced-members
Mineshaft_Gap
4077th
The word of THE LORD YOUR GOD cannot be changed regardless of what heretics might suggest.
you all better be steering clear of pork and shellfish. Unless you want to spend eternity bathed in hell fire.
It depends how you understand "his audience". It's not like he's got to run for reelection, so how ought we to think about his political goals? Even though he can't be voted out, maybe he does care about the opinions of people high up in the Catholic hierarchy. But it's also pretty plausible that he cares more about the relevance and attractiveness of the Church as a whole, and sees political value in reforming points of doctrine which are especially big turn-offs in many countries, in which case his audience is people outside of the Church (or lapsed Catholics, liberal Catholics, etc.). But I do doubt that this is a cynical move on his part; I suspect he thinks that it's just right for the Church to be more welcoming, and (probably) buys into the political arguments because of that. I feel most of the politicking on his part is in deciding how quickly to push.
alfredofroylan
Member
Well it didn't happen. At least they accept traditional civil unions now.
http://news.yahoo.com/bishops-revise-document-gays-expect-approval-125810087.html
RoyaleDuke
Banned
Except the Pope is supposed to be the voice of God on Earth, I.E. his Emissary.
That means after thousands of years of misinformation God is telling the Pope to tell people to stop caring about people's sexuality, and that no, they won't burn in Hell and we don't need to push intolerance on people.
Monocle
Member
Something something mysterious ways.
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