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[royalan]

Always late to a discussion, but here goes...

The transition from Madonna to Britney to Lady Gaga makes the most sense, and that timeline shows a shift in both the pop climate and how the mainstream views female empowerment. Madonna earned her success (and her many failures) through a cut-throat, neo-feminist mentality. She demanded respect with a personality and political edge that most in hindsight would call confrontational and even crude. Her brand of feminism was powerful and attention-grabbing, but it was also flimsy and short-lived. You can prove that that mentality was short-lived because of her endless re-inventions. Yes, many of her re-inventions followed an era of success (which showed her giant lady balls), but the fact is that she re-invented her image and music because she NEEDED to.

I'm not trying to diminish her legacy or her ability to keep the spotlight on her, because she has. But it's obvious from looking at the mainstream opinion of her as a WOMAN that she's garnered slightly more disdain and hatred than pure, unadulterated love. It was her intention from the onset, but it reflects how her brand of raw, in-your-face controversy was no longer wanted or needed by people by the start of the 2000s. Speaking only about the music, I think that experimental and risk-taking spirit in releasing different kinds of albums became very unpopular by the late 90s, and there was a transition into more of a dedicated FORMULA with pop acts. Music studios retained their control both on the business and the creative side, and hence Britney Spears was born.

Britney's legacy represents the fetishizing of women in a way reminiscent of the 1960s pin-up days . When she debuted in that school-girl dress and pig tails it was obvious that the world was ready (again) for a young, innocent woman to inspire people. On the business side, it reflected a tightening of creative direction, song writers re-emerged with power and responsibility. It was during this pop era that things took a creative stall, but nobody can deny that Britney's legacy is that of fully realized, traditionally PERFECT pop music. Manufactured, unoriginal, yes. But quantifiably perfect. She inspired a cavalcade of pop acts that were front-loaded with one or two good pop songs, but their quick descent into obscurity showed that labels put more credence in looks than creative talent. I think her meltdown showed fragility in more ways than just her personal life. People were ready for a bold, powerful woman to take pop by the balls and inspire people in a new, better way.

Lady Gaga is the anti-Britney. But she's also the anti-Madonna. She counters Britney's fragility and quiet emphasis on creative direction with boldness and an almost pretentious insistence of talking up her own creativity. She counters Madonna's crassness and rude rebellion with an intelligent articulation that made her brand of rebellion more intellectual and believable. Her brand of music isn't quite as realized as her political/personality brand, but it's getting there. She's energized the pop scene in a more authentic way than Britney did; in both bold style and politically-charged music. As a fan of both Britney and Madonna, she's obviously studied up. Her style of unpredictability is more fast-changing and schizophrenic than Madonna's, but (at least so far) it doesn't stem from a need to regain attention so much as a testament to her craving experimentation and testing mainstream tolerance. She's meta in a way Madonna didn't understand until later in her career, and even then couldn't quite get a handle of it. In her short career she's gained respect from industry godfathers and other mainstream mediums in ways Madonna always failed to do. If Gaga's legacy plays out the way she wants it to, then she'll be remembered as the all-time quintessential pop star.

Thanks for another beautiful Rumination on Pop, Sis.

 

[Soulscribe]

Thanks gurrs. I can sit and talk about pop music all day ^_^

I will say though that while those three women held/hold that title, there are a couple of big outliers. These ladies have either had just as big a legacy and have inspired the business in big, possibly bigger ways - or still have a relatively young career but show that their brand can hold sustainable demand. Currently the outliers are:

1) Beyonce - Longevity, and her flavor is fully realized, perfected, and as such she has accolade acclaim that puts her on a higher pedestal than just "pop queen." Her legacy will stand with Tina Turner and Whitney Houston.

2) Rihanna - A masterful understanding of the contemporary; while it's unknown if she/her team has done more following than leading current radio trends, it's obvious that she holds command of people's radios in a way even Britney couldn't quite reach.

3) Taylor Swift and Adele - Pop saboteurs, who qualify as pop but represent mainstream's need for distractions from the traditional pop flavor. Have earned their respect through a more lyrically-charged priority in their songs, and have transcendent appeal beyond simply the pop listener. While Taylor can cater to more universal age groups, Adele gives the pop scene some credence and respect from people who would otherwise stay away from top 40 radio.


EDIT: @Kyon & Crumpet, I tried to be as objective as possible, but I'll add that Britney's aesthetic is a reprise of Michael Jackson's in a similar way that Gaga's aesthetic was a reprise of Madonna's. She and Michael became transcendent figures in pop culture, and her brand to this day is something that current pop acts try (and fail) to achieve. It's a fully realized image, an immaculate machine. Britney's capital is HUGE in the same way Madonna's was HUGE, and in a way Lady Gaga hopes to be. My only cynicism comes in the implications behind it. But there's no denying that she's earned her spot in the all-time hall of fame of icons, next to The Beatles, Eivis, and Michael. In many ways she could end up being seen as a bigger icon than Madonna because her style was rigid and unchanging. That always looks great in hindsight

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

Yes, many of her re-inventions followed an era of success (which showed her giant lady balls), but the fact is that she re-invented her image and music because she NEEDED to.
I disagree. Madonna after a certain point where the re-invention were just part of her trade. Expected if you will. Once Madonna emerged as a creative force, her image was an accompaniment to her music.

Please don't act as if Madonna was the only one who had a new look per album. Janet (a superstar in her own right) went from chubby shy girl, to militaristic diva, to sex kitten. It should be to Madonna's credit that she had enough showmanship to keep the people as interested as long as she did.

I'm not trying to diminish her legacy or her ability to keep the spotlight on her, because she has. But it's obvious from looking at the mainstream opinion of her as a WOMAN that she's garnered slightly more disdain and hatred than pure, unadulterated love. It was her intention from the onset, but it reflects how her brand of raw, in-your-face controversy was no longer wanted or needed by people by the start of the 2000s.

The very tactics you deride are what allowed Madonna to persevere, and become the artist she is. Madonna could have very well ended up being another Stacey Q. Through sheer force of will and determination Madonna forged a path, while may have made her disliked, that allows these lesser heaux to tred freely.

Speaking only about the music, I think that experimental and risk-taking spirit in releasing different kinds of albums became very unpopular by the late 90s, and there was a transition into more of a dedicated FORMULA with pop acts. Music studios retained their control both on the business and the creative side, and hence Britney Spears was born.

Agreed. Songwriting and general has fallen by the wayside. Even 90's pop songwriting had something to it.

Britney's legacy represents the fetishizing of women in a way reminiscent of the 1960s pin-up days . When she debuted in that school-girl dress and pig tails it was obvious that the world was ready (again) for a young, innocent woman to inspire people. On the business side, it reflected a tightening of creative direction, song writers re-emerged with power and responsibility. It was during this pop era that things took a creative stall, but nobody can deny that Britney's legacy is that of fully realized, traditionally PERFECT pop music. Manufactured, unoriginal, yes. But quantifiably perfect. She inspired a cavalcade of pop acts that were front-loaded with one or two good pop songs, but their quick descent into obscurity showed that labels put more credence in looks than creative talent. I think her meltdown showed fragility in more ways than just her personal life. People were ready for a bold, powerful woman to take pop by the balls and inspire people in a new, better way.

Ugh... Not here for Brit. lol.

Lady Gaga is the anti-Britney. But she's also the anti-Madonna. She counters Britney's fragility and quiet emphasis on creative direction with boldness and an almost pretentious insistence of talking up her own creativity. She counters Madonna's crassness and rude rebellion with an intelligent articulation that made her brand of rebellion more intellectual and believable. Her brand of music isn't quite as realized as her political/personality brand, but it's getting there. She's energized the pop scene in a more authentic way than Britney did; in both bold style and politically-charged music. As a fan of both Britney and Madonna, she's obviously studied up. Her style of unpredictability is more fast-changing and schizophrenic than Madonna's, but (at least so far) it doesn't stem from a need to regain attention so much as a testament to her craving experimentation and testing mainstream tolerance. She's meta in a way Madonna didn't understand until later in her career, and even then couldn't quite get a handle of it. In her short career she's gained respect from industry godfathers and other mainstream mediums in ways Madonna always failed to do. If Gaga's legacy plays out the way she wants it to, then she'll be remembered as the all-time quintessential pop star.

Gaga do all these things and maybe become whatever, implicitly because women like Madonna let the way and broke down barriers. Gaga didnt sprout forth fully formed to take over the industy. She's just a ugly girl that plays the piano and has a vision. I don't take anything from her talent, but at the same time she hasn't done anything that would make her deserving the crown. If sales are any barometer, 9 million people agree. That's not to say that she can't, won't or wouldn't. But lets not count our eggs before they hatch.

 

[Dr. Malik]

Gaga do all these things and maybe become whatever, implicitly because women like Madonna let the way and broke down barriers. Gaga didnt sprout forth fully formed to take over the industy. She's just a ugly girl that plays the piano and has a vision. I don't take anything from her talent, but at the same time she hasn't done anything that would make her deserving the crown. If sales are any barometer, 9 million people agree. That's not to say that she can't, won't or wouldn't. But lets not count our eggs before they hatch.

She made enough impact that the world cant help but ask Madonna about her in every interview. Madonna herself sings one of her songs and invited her to perform together

STOP

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

1) Beyonce - Longevity, and her flavor is fully realized, perfected, and as such she has accolade acclaim that puts her on a higher pedestal than just "pop queen." Her legacy will stand with Tina Turner and Whitney Houston.

Beyonce is truly everything.

2) Rihanna - A masterful understanding of the contemporary; while it's unknown if she/her team has done more following than leading current radio trends, it's obvious that she holds command of people's radios in a way even Britney couldn't quite reach.

3) Taylor Swift

Adele - Adele gives the pop scene some credence and respect from people who would otherwise stay away from top 40 radio.

Spoiler

Hey boo

 

[Kyon]

Soul and Rob I love you so much ;___;

 

[royalan]

Gaga do all these things and maybe become whatever, implicitly because women like Madonna let the way and broke down barriers. Gaga didnt sprout forth fully formed to take over the industy. She's just a ugly girl that plays the piano and has a vision. I don't take anything from her talent, but at the same time she hasn't done anything that would make her deserving the crown. If sales are any barometer, 9 million people agree. That's not to say that she can't, won't or wouldn't. But lets not count our eggs before they hatch.

I do have to say I agree with the bolded. I think it's very telling that Gaga can only be discussed (or is just mostly discussed) within the context of how she's similar to or different from Madonna. I actually think that Lady Gaga's success is a huge testament to Madonna's influence and standing legacy. In that sense, I have to award the tea to Britney for achieving her Queen status while being the most unlike Madonna.

I've always thought that Lady Gaga was a more revolutionary Pop artist in her The Fame days, primarily because she was trying nearly so hard to be. Her approach to Pop music reminded me a lot of Prince back then.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

She made enough impact that the world cant help but ask Madonna about her in every interview.

"The world" that cares about Lady Gaga and Madonna is like this thread. Ready to throw the old bitch under a bus as soon as a younger fresher model comes around.

Madonna herself sings one of her songs and invited her to perform together

Madonna sings what... a chorus? Set to her own music. I think that's more shade than anything.

STOP

 

[Soulscribe]

Please don't act as if Madonna was the only one who had a new look per album. Janet (a superstar in her own right) went from chubby shy girl, to militaristic diva, to sex kitten. It should be to Madonna's credit that she had enough showmanship to keep the people as interested as long as she did.

She wasn't the only one, but as you said, she was the gold standard. She inspired women to be ballsy with their creative choices. That's a huge part of her legacy. Just like Britney inspired pop during her phase, and how Lady Gaga's inspiring pop right now, Madonna did it by holding up a flag of self-expression with a raised middle finger.

The very tactics you deride are what allowed Madonna to persevere, and become the artist she is. Madonna could have very well ended up being another Stacey Q. Through sheer force of will and determination Madonna forged a path, while may have made her disliked, that allows these lesser heaux to tred freely.

Exactly. She persevered and became the artist she is because she was insistent on not losing the spotlight that kept treading away from her every other era.

Agreed. Songwriting and general has fallen by the wayside. Even 90's pop songwriting had something to it.

Gurr don't even tell me about how song-writing's taken a dive. In general the pop scene has put less emphasis on lyrical drive, and that has nothing to do with Madonna, Gaga, or Britney. It's just a style everyone seems on board with. Gag.

Gaga do all these things and maybe become whatever, implicitly because women like Madonna let the way and broke down barriers. Gaga didnt sprout forth fully formed to take over the industy. She's just a ugly girl that plays the piano and has a vision. I don't take anything from her talent, but at the same time she hasn't done anything that would make her deserving the crown. If sales are any barometer, 9 million people agree. That's not to say that she can't, won't or wouldn't. But lets not count our eggs before they hatch.

Except the egg hatched, and an ugly duckling emerged to tell the swans how the story turns out. She understands the scene best out of the three ladies, and while her career has just begun, it's equally unfair to look at someone's LONG career with rose-tinted glasses but take a shit on someone who's only three years into it. Everyone starts somewhere, and Madonna WISHED her first three years were as explosive and trend-setting as Lady Gaga's. Again, it all starts somewhere, and Gaga's set a trajectory for herself with a sharp incline only Britney would understand. Except in this case, the woman at the helm knows what consequences may lie ahead and will probably know how to get the good and avoid the bad.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

I do have to say I agree with the bolded. I think it's very telling that Gaga can only be discussed (or is just mostly discussed) within the context of how she's similar to or different from Madonna. I actually think that Lady Gaga's success is a huge testament to Madonna's influence and standing legacy. In that sense, I have to award the tea to Britney for achieving her Queen status while being the most unlike Madonna.

I've always thought that Lady Gaga was a more revolutionary Pop artist in her The Fame days, primarily because she was trying nearly so hard to be. Her approach to Pop music reminded me a lot of Prince back then.

We, the royal we, are not pleased. lol.

 

[Dr. Malik]

"The world" that cares about Lady Gaga and Madonna is like this thread. Ready to throw the old bitch under a bus as soon as a younger fresher model comes around.

The fact that it took this long for someone else to be called the Queen of Pop should tell you something about Gaga. But you can stay clinging to Madonna as the Queen of Pop just like George W. Bush will always be referred as President even though he is no longer acting.

Maybe you will attend one of her concerts and have her keep you waiting for 2 hours, offend the audience by doing something controversial, she might even tell you who to vote for, or of course flash you her prunes. I'm sure it will be a nice event to help you remember the Queen of Pop

 

[Soulscribe]

I do have to say I agree with the bolded. I think it's very telling that Gaga can only be discussed (or is just mostly discussed) within the context of how she's similar to or different from Madonna. I actually think that Lady Gaga's success is a huge testament to Madonna's influence and standing legacy. In that sense, I have to award the tea to Britney for achieving her Queen status while being the most unlike Madonna.

Yes, except Britney was less influenced by Madonna as she was by the Jackson siblings, and late 80s teen-pop acts like Tiffany. That re-emergence came from a transition from freak-flag divisiveness to a least-offensive-possible style that met a happy middle while transcending the image of a female star. It's just as profound and powerful an inspiration as Lady Gaga's is from Madonna. It's just a bit more fun (and catty, prrrr) to talk about Gaga being Madonna inspired because the latter is still in the business and controversial people are more glaringly obvious to people than inoffensive pop acts like Janet Jackson.

I've always thought that Lady Gaga was a more revolutionary Pop artist in her The Fame days, primarily because she was trying nearly so hard to be. Her approach to Pop music reminded me a lot of Prince back then.

I would have to disagree with this. Lady Gaga talked a lot about Warhol and Bowie when she first started but that doesn't mean she was no longer inspired by them later on. If anything she became more inspired statistically because her music finally REFLECTED that inspiration. Born This Way is a Springsteen "Born-To-Run" arena rock sound mixed with a post-op transgender centaur on acid with a microphone. It's much more inspired than The Fame was, the latter being a deliberate attempt on Gaga's part to release the most radio-friendly pop record possible to earn the respect of her music label and the radio markets. Crafty, but hardly worth my respect in hindsight. Born This Way was a risk for her to take from the onset and she understood that, which gets her a lot of props from me. Many people didn't like it, but they also didn't like True Blue or Bed-Time Stories when they came out. People can drastically change their opinions on material when looked at 5-10 years after the fact, and I do think that Born This Way will be the album that seals the deal on her artistic gravitas and political charge. The album is definitively Gaga. At least so far.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

Except the egg hatched, and an ugly duckling emerged to tell the swans how the story turns out. She understands the scene best out of the three ladies, and while her career has just begun, it's equally unfair to look at someone's LONG career with rose-tinted glasses but take a shit on someone who's only three years into it. Everyone starts somewhere, and Madonna WISHED her first three years were as explosive and trend-setting as Lady Gaga's. Again, it all starts somewhere, and Gaga's set a trajectory for herself with a sharp incline only Britney would understand. Except in this case, the woman at the helm knows what consequences may lie ahead and will probably know how to get the good and avoid the bad.

Allow me to quote myself, if I may be so bold.

Lord... you young queens have no sense of history

Sales receipts: first 3 albums only

Madonna -
Madonna : 10 million WW
Like A Virgin: 21 million WW
True Blue: 25 million WW
1st 3: 56 million
(All albums: 133.5 million)

Britney Spears-
... Baby: 28 million WW
...Oops: 24 million WW
Britney: 15 million WW
1st 3: 67 million
(All albums: 85.1 million)

Lady Gaga -
The Fame+The Fame Monster: 15 million WW (wiki had them listed as 1 album)
Born This Way: 6 million WW
1st 3(?): 21 million

Sales aside, as the oldest heaux here let me tell you how it was, rose tinted lenses aside, because i was, as it turns out, there. As you can see above, Madonna grew in popularity after her first album, whereas the other girls not so much. There were 10's of thousands of lil hussies dressed like Madonna running the streets. Madonna, simply stated was a cultural phenomena. She was everywhere.

Maybe album sales aren't the metric you use to measure explosive and trend-setting, so what is? I see Madonna's first 3 years inclining, but the other two denote interest waning.

if you think Madonna is a flop NOW and she's still out grossing Gaga. Just imagine what she was like when she 1st came out.

edit:yes Madonna's 1st 3 are LTD... but my point still stands. lol.

 

[Bladenic]

Wait, in those pictures what's wrong with Britney's leg? It looks like varicose veins, could be shadows I guess.

 

[Mau ®]

Robsus posting *.*

 

[Soulscribe]

Allow me to quote myself, if I may be so bold.
Sales aside, as the oldest heaux here let me tell you how it was, rose tinted lenses aside, because i was, as it turns out, there. As you can see above, Madonna grew in popularity after her first album, whereas the other girls not so much. There were 10's of thousands of lil hussies dressed like Madonna running the streets. Madonna, simply stated was a cultural phenomena. She was everywhere.

Maybe album sales aren't the metric you use to measure explosive and trend-setting, so what is? I see Madonna's first 3 years inclining, but the other two denote interest waning.

if you think Madonna is a flop NOW and she's still out grossing Gaga. Just imagine what she was like when she 1st came out.

<3

Madonna's debut was huge, obviously, but it wasn't explosive in the way Gaga's was. You have to look at them with a mind for the changing times. Madonna's arrival in the pop scene pissed people off. She was derided as either a talentless hack, a hollow show-boat, a Cindy Lauper without the talent, or a sex maniac. She inspired young people and other musicians of COURSE. I'm not saying she didn't. But I'm saying that Lady Gaga played the mainstream TV circuit in a way that made her look GOOD in the eyes of America, not BAD. Lady Gaga isn't edgy in the same way Madonna is. The former will show her edge in bouts and for the sake of whatever project she had in mind. Madonna did it with a kind of crass that made non-fans easily become haters. Her interview on Letterman comes to mind. That was well into her career but it showed how she was a polarizing figure simply because her personality was cold, rude, obnoxious. Lady Gaga managed to blend both edgy imagery in her music and style while still having the hosts of Good Morning America gawking at her sweetness and intelligence. That's the difference.

Also if you were to adjust those album sales with the changing tides on music consumption, it's a pretty close cut. And there isn't quite a downward trajectory with Gaga's albums because Born This Way has been out much more recently than her first two, and still comes close to matching the first two albums individually. But I ain't here for sales wars. It's tired

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

Soul and Rob I love you so much ;___;

The fact that it took this long for someone else to be called the Queen of Pop should tell you something about Gaga. But you can stay clinging to Madonna as the Queen of Pop just like George W. Bush will always be referred as President even though he is no longer acting.

Maybe you will attend one of her concerts and have her keep you waiting for 2 hours, offend the audience by doing something controversial, she might even tell you who to vote for, or of course flash you her prunes. I'm sure it will be a nice event to help you remember the Queen of Pop

Gaga's popularity just serves as notice that the Tickle Me Elmo generation has reached physical maturity, can buy albums, and that they're still fascinated by sparkly things. See also, Twilight's popularity.

 

[botty]

Just Pre-ordered the Album of the Year on itunes.

Let the seething begin.

 

[royalan]

I would have to disagree with this. Lady Gaga talked a lot about Warhol and Bowie when she first started but that doesn't mean she was no longer inspired by them later on. If anything she became more inspired statistically because her music finally REFLECTED that inspiration. Born This Way is a Springsteen "Born-To-Run" arena rock sound mixed with a post-op transgender centaur on acid with a microphone. It's much more inspired than The Fame was, the latter being a deliberate attempt on Gaga's part to release the most radio-friendly pop record possible to earn the respect of her music label and the radio markets. Crafty, but hardly worth my respect in hindsight. Born This Way was a risk for her to take from the onset and she understood that, which gets her a lot of props from me. Many people didn't like it, but they also didn't like True Blue or Bed-Time Stories when they came out. People can drastically change their opinions on material when looked at 5-10 years after the fact, and I do think that Born This Way will be the album that seals the deal on her artistic gravitas and political charge. The album is definitively Gaga. At least so far.

Personally, The Fame album is more inspired to me because Gaga was able to follow the template of Pop success while differentiating herself from pretty much everyone out at the time. Her trajectory was also very Prince-like (writing for other artists; noticeable attention paid to musicality on the part of the artist; a return to the jack-of-all-trades Pop star).

I don't really look at the risk she took with BTW to be a sign of artistic obligation. I honestly think that BTW was the manifestation of Gaga loving the smell of her own farts. Thought The Fame Gaga was gay friendly? BTW Gaga would be CHAMPION of the gays. Thought The Fame Gaga was refreshingly opinionated? BTW Gaga would give SERMONS on everything from women's rights to immigration reform! Thought The Fame Gaga was fun dance music? BTW Gaga would fill every track with overproduced sledgehammers of sound! Loved how charmingly hands-on The Fame Gaga was with her fans? Good luck understanding half of what BTW Gaga's doing if you're not a Little Monster.

She went big, but ultimately I think Gaga bought into the hype of who she was supposed to be as an artist and the album ultimately suffered for it. Maybe I'm just too pessismistic, but I think it's telling that Gaga has repeatedly implied a return to the carefree (and less overblown) days of The Fame with ARTPOP.

Lady Gaga wasn't so "constrained" by public expectation with The Fame, and I think the album was better for it.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

<3

Madonna's debut was huge, obviously, but it wasn't explosive in the way Gaga's was. You have to look at them with a mind for the changing times. Madonna's arrival in the pop scene pissed people off. She was derided as either a talentless hack, a hollow show-boat, a Cindy Lauper without the talent, or a sex maniac.

I TOLD Botty early Madonna could be liked to Rihanna, but he wasn't trying to hear me tho.

I'm saying that Lady Gaga played the mainstream TV circuit in a way that made her look GOOD in the eyes of America, not BAD. Lady Gaga isn't edgy in the same way Madonna is. The former will show her edge in bouts and for the sake of whatever project she had in mind. Madonna did it with a kind of crass that made non-fans easily become haters. Her interview on Letterman comes to mind. That was well into her career but it showed how she was a polarizing figure simply because her personality was cold, rude, obnoxious. Lady Gaga managed to blend both edgy imagery in her music and style while still having the hosts of Good Morning America gawking at her sweetness and intelligence. That's the difference.

Gaga is as edgy as a nerf ball. But i'll concede the point. I'll say this, Madonna gets asses in the seats, and charges a heft sum. Maybe one day.... NAH! lol.

Also if you were to adjust those album sales with the changing tides on music consumption, it's a pretty close cut. And there isn't quite a downward trajectory with Gaga's albums because Born This Way has been out much more recently than her first two, and still comes close to matching the first two albums individually. But I ain't here for sales wars. It's tired

<3

 

[Soulscribe]

Personally, The Fame album is more inspired to me because she was able to follow the template of Pop success while differentiating herself from pretty much everyone out at the time. Her trajectory was also very Prince-like (writing for other artists; noticeable attention paid to musicality on the part of the artist; a return to the jack-of-all-trades Pop star).

I don't really look at the risk she took with BTW to be a sign of artistic obligation. I honestly think that BTW was the manifestation of Gaga loving the smell of her own farts. Thought The Fame Gaga was gay friendly? BTW Gaga would be CHAMPION of the gays. Thought The Fame Gaga was refreshingly opinionated? BTW Gaga would give SERMONS on everything from woman's rights to immigration reform! Thought The Fame Gaga was fun dance music? BTW Gaga would fill every track with overproduced sledgehammers of sound! Loved how charmingly hands-on The Fame Gaga was with her fans? Good luck understanding half of what BTW Gaga's doing if you're not a Little Monster.

She went big, but ultimately I think Gaga bought into the hype of who she was supposed to be as an artist and the album ultimately suffered for it. But maybe I'm just too pessimistic.

Lady Gaga wasn't so "constrained" by public expectation with The Fame, and I think the album was better for it.

Great post. Though I see it differently I know 100% where you're coming from. No qualms here.

 

[Artemisia]

Just Pre-ordered the Album of the Year on itunes.

Let the seething begin.

2 weeks till release and no hype

In the same amount of time (2 months between lead single and album release) Taylor's nobody record company promoted it to sell 1 mill copies.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

Her trajectory was also very Prince-like (writing for other artists; noticeable attention paid to musicality on the part of the artist; a return to the jack-of-all-trades Pop star).

Only thing that was missing was, you know, good music... But that may be just me.

 

[botty]

Madonna's debut was huge, obviously, but it wasn't explosive in the way Gaga's was. You have to look at them with a mind for the changing times. Madonna's arrival in the pop scene pissed people off. She was derided as either a talentless hack, a hollow show-boat, a Cindy Lauper without the talent, or a sex maniac.

- Madonna's beginnings and Gaga's beginnings are practically parallel. Both were doing underground pop music in New York before being signed. Both of their debuts were "explosive" in terms of having popular songs (Gaga had bigger hits, though), ushering in fashion trends, and having a cult following early on. Back then, if the world was exposed to twitter, youtube, and the internet in general as it is now, Madonna's "explosion" would have been just as swift, and just as large.

- I don't get the Cyndi Lauper part here. Madonna debuted before her, and Cyndi has never been praised for "talent," more so her free spirit, catchy songs, and unique style.

2 weeks till release and no hype

In the same amount of time (2 months between lead single and album release) Taylor's nobody record company promoted it to sell 1 mill copies.

Who are you trying to impress with Taylor's album sales?

 

[Mumei]

Lord... you young queens have no sense of history

Sales receipts: first 3 albums only

Madonna -
Madonna : 10 million WW
Like A Virgin: 21 million WW
True Blue: 25 million WW
1st 3: 56 million
(All albums: 133.5 million)

Britney Spears-
... Baby: 28 million WW
...Oops: 24 million WW
Britney: 15 million WW
1st 3: 67 million
(All albums: 85.1 million)

Lady Gaga -
The Fame+The Fame Monster: 15 million WW (wiki had them listed as 1 album)
Born This Way: 6 million WW
1st 3(?): 21 million

Let us not get into tour receipts, or overall impact.

You underrated Madonna; reasonable estimates for her total album sales are around 190M+. Mariah has around ~145M, so Madonna has to have more than that. There were other singers who have had sales peaks as big as Madonna (Celine with two back-to-back 30M selling albums + Titanic nonsense; Mariah with ~30/15/25M for 1993/94/95 albums; Whitney with her first two albums selling 25M and The Bodyguard selling 44M; Shania selling 20M/40M/20M over three albums), but none that sold so consistently for so long or who had multiple peaks the way she did.

 

[Stinkles]

Madonna can't sing or dance and she has always sucked. Great concerts, great albums but not much individual talent beyond charisma. Anyone who's a great singer, songwriter or dancer is going to smash her in a talent duel, so it has to be about overall package for Mads, never, ever ability.

 

[Dr. Malik]

Madonna can't sing or dance and she has always sucked. Great concerts, great albums but not much individual talent beyond charisma. Anyone who's a great singer, songwriter or dancer is going to smash her in a talent duel, so it has to be about overall package for Mads, never, ever ability.

a random coming in here spilling the true tea

bless

 

[Stinkles]

a random coming in here spilling the true tea

bless

I'm entitled, too, since I was a teenager for Maddona's arrival.

 

[botty]

I'm entitled, too, since I was a teenager for Maddona's arrival.

A teenager in the 80s? How lucky.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

- Madonna's beginnings and Gaga's beginnings are practically parallel. Both were doing underground pop music in New York before being signed. Both of their debuts were "explosive" in terms of having popular songs (Gaga had bigger hits, though), ushering in fashion trends, and having a cult following early on. Back then, if the world was exposed to twitter, youtube, and the internet in general as it is now, Madonna's "explosion" would have been just as swift, and just as large.

Gerl stop. All Gaga has is some pimple faced queers who need to be told gay is ok. Gaga's impact is over stated. The state of music now-a-days (yells at cloud) is such that there's barely any competition. Madonna had Prince and that other guy to contend with. There was Bruce Springsteen, Tina Turner, etc etc. They'll give anyone a record deal these days. In a world where the top selling record is by some girl who who bearded for some gay dudes and "wrote" and "sang" about it or some K-pop throw away rules the charts, is Gaga selling some records something to write home about? I could see if they let some actual talented ppl get some promo... Now they just settle for a pretty face (lord knows how Gaga got her foot in the door.)

- I don't get the Cyndi Lauper part here. Madonna debuted before her, and Cyndi has never been praised for "talent," more so her free spirit, catchy songs, and unique style.

Xtina coulda been the next Cyndi, she'll just have to being the next Taylor Dane i guess.

 

[Aguila]

Christina has a little banner in the pop music page on US iTunes along with 1D, Shitbull, and Kelly.








Where is Lana's banner?

She needs dat promo

 

[SaintZ]

Where is Lana's banner?

She needs dat promo

There has been ZERO promo for The Paradise Edition since Ride released, WTF Interscope ¬¬

 

[Dr. Malik]

I could see if they let some actual talented ppl get some promo... Now they just settle for a pretty face

mhmm?

Madonna can't sing or dance and she has always sucked. Great concerts, great albums but not much individual talent beyond charisma. Anyone who's a great singer, songwriter or dancer is going to smash her in a talent duel, so it has to be about overall package for Mads, never, ever ability.

I guess back then things werent so different

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

Madonna can't sing or dance and she has always sucked. Great concerts, great albums but not much individual talent beyond charisma. Anyone who's a great singer, songwriter or dancer is going to smash her in a talent duel, so it has to be about overall package for Mads, never, ever ability.

What kind of lies? OMG. Ok yeah, she can kinda carry a note. But she's out danced and out songwrote most of her contemporaries. Yeah, ok, Gaga puts words and music in the same vicinity. But all, except 2 or 3 songs, sound the was shit smells. Standards being what they are these days, I can see how the the youth of Obama's America thinks she's Mozart. But I digress.

I'm entitled, too, since I was a teenager for Maddona's arrival.

Gerl... I was but a wee lass when Madonna debuted. You go gworl.

Stinkles
drunk, naked and uncooperative

How you doin? lol.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

mhmm?



I guess back then things werent so different

You feel validated?

 

[royalan]

Gerl stop. All Gaga has is some pimple faced queers who need to be told gay is ok. Gaga's impact is over stated. The state of music now-a-days (yells at cloud) is such that there's barely any competition. Madonna had Prince and that other guy to contend with. There was Bruce Springsteen, Tina Turner, etc etc. They'll give anyone a record deal these days. In a world where the top selling record is by some girl who who bearded for some gay dudes and "wrote" and "sang" about it or some K-pop throw away rules the charts, is Gaga selling some records something to write home about? I could see if they let some actual talented ppl get some promo... Now they just settle for a pretty face (lord knows how Gaga got her foot in the door.)

Despite how pressed this post is, I somewhat agree with the bolded. I think Gaga focused so much on her fans and the downtrodden gays with BTW that I think she really narrowed her audience over the course of the era.

I'll be watching the ARTPOP era closely for this reason.

Xtina coulda been the next Cyndi, she'll just have to being the next Taylor Dane i guess.

What kind of random Xtina dragging...?

But, since you brought up my queen...it's funny. Xtina is one of the few artists whose career I can't really peg at this point. And I don't mean that in a good OR bad way.

After Bionic, her career could go any number of ways. I don't think it's yet beyond her grasp to make another well-received album and go on to continued success. Years later we'll be talking about Bionic as her "Glitter" moment.

Or Bionic could have been the final nail in the coffin.

 

[botty]

Gerl stop. All Gaga has is some pimple faced queers who need to be told gay is ok. Gaga's impact is over stated. The state of music now-a-days (yells at cloud) is such that there's barely any competition. Madonna had Prince and that other guy to contend with. There was Bruce Springsteen, Tina Turner, etc etc. They'll give anyone a record deal these days. In a world where the top selling record is by some girl who who bearded for some gay dudes and "wrote" and "sang" about it or some K-pop throw away rules the charts, is Gaga selling some records something to write home about? I could see if they let some actual talented ppl get some promo... Now they just settle for a pretty face (lord knows how Gaga got her foot in the door.)

Xtina coulda been the next Cyndi, she'll just have to being the next Taylor Dane i guess.

Nothing you said detracts from the statements I made. I even went as far to say that Madonna would have matched up to Gaga's initial impact had the right tools been available at the time.

Xtina is more successful than Cyndi Lauper, and far more talented... so I am not sure where you were going with that statement.

 

[Dr. Malik]

You feel validated?

your pressed opinion has been dismissed

 

[Artemisia]

Madonna can't sing or dance and she has always sucked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pehMBaHgpWE

 

[Aguila]

There has been ZERO promo for The Paradise Edition since Ride released, WTF Interscope ¬¬

I know ;___;

Plus, they chose the worst time to release it, in the middle of Xtina's, 1D's, Rihanna's, and Nicki's albums. She'll fall under the radar again (in the US).

 

[Crumpet Trumpet]

So, um, apparently this is a thing.

I'm morbidly curious.

 

[Bladenic]

Rob was making a lot of sense until he said Madonna out danced and out wrote others. She herself has admitted that she's nowhere near the talent level of other performers. She's nothing but a hard worker who worked hard enough so that her flaws in any area could be overlooked. She constantly reinvented herself, perhaps to make up for her flaws, perhaps not. Not saying she's completely talentless. And I'm sure she improved in all areas. But she wasn't, and never will be, the best at anything. However, she can do it all, per se, so she's for all intents and purposes the complete package. And a really hard working package at that. Well, was.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

Alright girls, thats all for me tonight. it's been fun.

@Roy - I just drag Xtina to mess with Botty. And I'm NOT pressed. lol.
Although, I will be pressed for a moment before I go:
Miraj sux, Gaga sux, MIA.jpg

lol.

Bey is our once and future Queen.
Rih is a pop goddess.
R.I.P Teena.

nite nite.

 

[Mau ®]

RT

Rih is a pop goddess.

 

[Dr. Malik]

I know ;___;

Plus, they chose the worst time to release it, in the middle of Xtina's, 1D's, Rihanna's, and Nicki's albums. She'll fall under the radar again (in the US).

Interscope is saving all their pennies for ARTPOP v1 and v2

Spoiler

and Eminem *.*

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

Nothing you said detracts from the statements I made. I even went as far to say that Madonna would have matched up to Gaga's initial impact had the right tools been available at the time.

Xtina is more successful than Cyndi Lauper, and far more talented... so I am not sure where you were going with that statement.

Chile plz, Cyndi Lauper is LEGENDARY, Xtina is just LEGS & DAIRY.

Spoiler

Drag race shade

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

Rob was making a lot of sense until he said Madonna out danced and out wrote others. She herself has admitted that she's nowhere near the talent level of other performers. She's nothing but a hard worker who worked hard enough so that her flaws in any area could be overlooked. She constantly reinvented herself, perhaps to make up for her flaws, perhaps not. Not saying she's completely talentless. And I'm sure she improved in all areas. But she wasn't, and never will be, the best at anything. However, she can do it all, per se, so she's for all intents and purposes the complete package. And a really hard working package at that. Well, was.

 

[Aguila]

Interscope is saving all their pennies for ARTPOP v1 and v2

Spoiler

and Eminem *.*

But this could be her last album.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

RT

You underrated Madonna; reasonable estimates for her total album sales are around 190M+. Mariah has around ~145M, so Madonna has to have more than that. There were other singers who have had sales peaks as big as Madonna (Celine with two back-to-back 30M selling albums + Titanic nonsense; Mariah with ~30/15/25M for 1993/94/95 albums; Whitney with her first two albums selling 25M and The Bodyguard selling 44M; Shania selling 20M/40M/20M over three albums), but none that sold so consistently for so long or who had multiple peaks the way she did.

 

[RubyFaith]

Why don't people like MIA's basement music?