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[Flo_Evans]

Very, that's the kind of post that I really wanted to see in here. Read through it once, going to do so again.

Yeah I think allot of people are just accepting of what David/Shaw interpret as the engineers intentions and trying to make that fit with biblical mythology.

Of course from a human/designed by humans robot point of view it seems like a weapons facility, it was also evidently a place of worship. I think the engineers have a greater purpose than WAR. Their purpose seems to be of understanding life, and in medling with it (again fire of the gods myth) they went to far and are thus punished by the xenomorphs/plauge.

If david was telling the truth, and they where planning on returning to earth, maybe they where going to check up on us, or maybe they wanted to chill out. Maybe they thought we where ready for the next stage of "evolution" (ala 2001:space odyssey) and the black goo was intended to mutate us into them. We simply don't know from the movie.

The questions of why they made us and why they (presumably) want to destroy us are unanswered IMHO. That is why Shaw takes off in the end, to further he quest for the answers she didn't get.

 

[The Elite]

Why don't you read it? Its very well written and thought out.

I pretty much agree...

David "the one who hates his parents" TELLS them they are going to wipe out earth after HE fucks with the machine. HE programmed the coordinates for all we know because he really didn't like humans. And why should he? They treated him like shit for most of the movie.

I find that Big text posts actually hurt my eyes on gaf - really. I start getting this wavy effect when looking at the text. I'll probably just copy and paste it out and read it in Word if you say it's worth the read though.

I don't know if it's the font size mixed with the greyish background, but that much text seems ill suited for GAF. It's less the posters fault and maybe a formatting issue.

 

[we.are.the.armada]

Let's talk about the black goo:

Is it the fire of the gods; a technology that the SJs stole from something grander than themselves?

Does the black goo strive, by any means, to ultimately create xenomorphs?

Why is David spilling black goo and cracking the ampule all over that lab without a contamination suit on? Even if he'll be ok, he could carry the black goo particles on his skin and clothes all over the ship. What if it can become airborn? Did he know these things?

The black goo can seep through the lid of the urn but it can't penetrate David's skin? IIRC Ridley mentioned it being a "biomechinoid", so why no effect when it makes direct contact with David?

 

[Flo_Evans]

I find that Big text posts actually hurt my eyes on gaf - really. I start getting this wavy effect when looking at the text. I'll probably just copy and paste it out and read it in Word if you say it's worth the read though.

I don't know if it's the font size mixed with the greyish background, but that much text seems ill suited for GAF. It's less the posters fault and maybe a formatting issue.

Browser? you can zoom in and change to fonts on most browsers to make for easier reading.

 

[we.are.the.armada]

Massive unanswered thing. What causes the space holograms to be played? Why were they recorded in the first place?

Plot devices with no substantial basis. Also, they couldn't be musical records because it had to be something cool and ominous for the audience to see.

1st Holograph - to foreshadow the xenomorph via scream, lead actors into the black goo room

2nd Holograph - to show David how the ship works, that SJs were leaving for Earth, and that one is still sleeping

 

[- J - D -]

Sorry don't know if this has been posted, but the thread is so long I can't check.

Some production set shots of the space jockeys. I have a question:

The 'suits' they are wearing weren't suits at all but a part of their physiology?

https://www.dropbox.com/gallery/4083772/1//Engineer?h=977393&p=0

 

[Flo_Evans]

Let's talk about the black goo:

Is it the fire of the gods; a technology that the SJs stole from something grander than themselves?

Does the black goo strive, by any means, to ultimately create xenomorphs?

Why is David spilling black goo and cracking the ampule all over that lab without a contamination suit on? Even if he'll be ok, he could carry the black goo particles on his skin and clothes all over the ship. What if it can become airborn? Did he know these things?

The black goo can seep through the lid of the urn but it can't penetrate David's skin? IIRC Ridley mentioned it being a "biomechinoid", so why no effect when it makes direct contact with David?

Yeah I think the goo is the "fire".

I don't think the xeno is the ultimate "goal" of the goo, it seems to adapt to DNA+ environment. On one planet it makes xenos, on another squids, worms.

I think David wanted to see what would happen exposing himself/humans to the goo... he didn't care much about contaminating the ship.

The lids seem to react to oxygen/atmosphere. I don't think the goo eats it, the air does. I think the temple area was sealed, notice the engineers are all wearing helmets when they try and flee there.

 

[Mondriaan]

Let's talk about the black goo:

Is it the fire of the gods; a technology that the SJs stole from something grander than themselves?

The myth of Prometheus may have involved his gift of fire to mankind, but I don't think that his fire has an analog in the movie. Another theme of the myth is about his self-sacrifice for the sake of a younger, weaker race, and that theme is probably more important because it features so prominently in Christianity.

 

[Sub_Level]

Let's talk about the black goo:

Is it the fire of the gods; a technology that the SJs stole from something grander than themselves?

Does the black goo strive, by any means, to ultimately create xenomorphs?

Why is David spilling black goo and cracking the ampule all over that lab without a contamination suit on? Even if he'll be ok, he could carry the black goo particles on his skin and clothes all over the ship. What if it can become airborn? Did he know these things?

The black goo can seep through the lid of the urn but it can't penetrate David's skin? IIRC Ridley mentioned it being a "biomechinoid", so why no effect when it makes direct contact with David?

You're trying to discuss something that has no consistent effect whatsoever other than being inconsistent. David not being affected at all goes right in line with it doing random shit to everything else. Why didn't it turn David into an alien unicorn? I dunno, that's just the way it was written.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Sorry don't know if this has been posted, but the thread is so long I can't check.

Some production set shots of the space jockeys. I have a question:

The 'suits' they are wearing weren't suits at all but a part of their physiology?

https://www.dropbox.com/gallery/4083772/1//Engineer?h=977393&p=0

suits. The 1st one is naked/topless in the opening.

 

[Jack Scofield]

Sorry don't know if this has been posted, but the thread is so long I can't check.

Some production set shots of the space jockeys. I have a question:

The 'suits' they are wearing weren't suits at all but a part of their physiology?

https://www.dropbox.com/gallery/4083772/1//Engineer?h=977393&p=0

They were suits. If you recall, the very first Engineer we see in the movie (the robed one who "seeds" his DNA on Earth) looked like a burly albino muscleman. Their suits just look like they're fused to their bodies.

 

[Flo_Evans]

You're trying to discuss something that has no consistent effect whatsoever other than being inconsistent. David not being affected at all goes right in line with it doing random shit to everything else. Why didn't it turn David into an alien unicorn? I dunno, that's just the way it was written.

IT doesn't effect him because he HAS NO DNA. jesus are people being obtuse or just trying to hate?

 

[The Elite]

Browser? you can zoom in and change to fonts on most browsers to make for easier reading.

Google Chrome.

I'll take a look at that.

I feel like an old man...

 

[TheJollyCorner]

Let's talk about the black goo:

Is it the fire of the gods; a technology that the SJs stole from something grander than themselves?

Does the black goo strive, by any means, to ultimately create xenomorphs?

Why is David spilling black goo and cracking the ampule all over that lab without a contamination suit on? Even if he'll be ok, he could carry the black goo particles on his skin and clothes all over the ship. What if it can become airborn? Did he know these things?

The black goo can seep through the lid of the urn but it can't penetrate David's skin? IIRC Ridley mentioned it being a "biomechinoid", so why no effect when it makes direct contact with David?

I go back and forth between a technology and a natural substance that the Engineers might have been trying to manipulate/control. I think I like the latter idea better, personally.

I also got the feeling the substance only reacts physically to organic material, so David is safe. But what if his synthetic 'flesh' had organic properties? Perhaps the substance works its way into the host's skin and begins altering natural organs, blood cells, DNA, etc? David, to my knowledge, doesn't contain any of those mentioned.

Maybe the seals to the urns 'break' when the chamber is opened, i.e. a trap, like other posters have pointed out?

 

[DECK'ARD]

Deck'ard is probably writing out an equally long rebuttal right now, can't wait to see the response.

Really?

I prefer concise, as expanding things to Biblical proportions often causes problems

 

[Zeliard]

The myth of Prometheus may have involved his gift of fire to mankind, but I don't think that his fire has an analog in the movie. Another theme of the myth is about his self-sacrifice for the sake of a younger, weaker race, and that theme is probably more important because it features so prominently in Christianity.

One of the major facets of the Prometheus myth that has a strange tendency to be neglected in popular culture and in these sorts of discussions is that he created humanity. That has very clear bearing on the film as well.

 

[The Elite]

The black goo is definitely the fire.

If misused fire can cause chaos and damage. If used correctly it is an incredible resource. The black goo is very similar in this regard. Misused and you end up with horrible mutations and xenomorphs but when used correctly it can create intelligent life forms like humans.

 

[Ashhong]

I never said that it changes Alien, just that, for me, the film's explanation of SJs feels forced. The film wants to link up with the Alien films but they wanted slightly larger humanoids as the SJs instead of the type of massive bio-mechanical elephantine creatures we saw in Alien. The spacesuit explanation doesn't really feel like it fits with what was shown in Alien.

Wasn't it always accepted before Prometheus that the SJ in Alien was always a suit? Or am I crazy.

 

[Keylime]

Does the black goo strive, by any means, to ultimately create xenomorphs?

I would think so, but the meal worms turning into that super meal worm thing doesn't seem to have any path to become a Xenomorph. It dove into Bio-Boys mouth, but he died and didn't give birth to anything else that I recall...it just killed him (didn't something jump out of his dead-head, now that I think about it?)

Admittedly, diving into his mouth like that emulates what the Squid-Hugger did that came out of Shah (that was a product of infected sperm).

...actually...the squid-hugger was just a black goo'd sperm, right? She wasn't able to be pregnant, so it's not like there was a sperm + egg = squid-hugger thing going on...Holloway just took an infected sperm and shot it into her...and she grew it directly?

When the thing is taken out of her, it kind of looked like a super mutated sperm, right? Big head, whippy tails?

No idea why it turns into the super squad-hugger thing, though. Sperm turning into a super squid-hugger doesn't seem to make sense.

 

[- J - D -]

They were suits. If you recall, the very first Engineer we see in the movie (the robed one who "seeds" his DNA on Earth) looked like a burly albino muscleman. Their suits just look like they're fused to their bodies.

Yes, but some were positing that these more recent engineers were higher evolved versions of the Engineer that seeded the planet.

I'm more willing to believe that they are just suits though.

 

[Zombie James]

Sorry don't know if this has been posted, but the thread is so long I can't check.

Some production set shots of the space jockeys. I have a question:

The 'suits' they are wearing weren't suits at all but a part of their physiology?

https://www.dropbox.com/gallery/4083772/1//Engineer?h=977393&p=0

100% match.

 

[andycapps]

Yeah I think the goo is the "fire".

Agreed.

I don't think the xeno is the ultimate "goal" of the goo, it seems to adapt to DNA+ environment. On one planet it makes xenos, on another squids, worms.

There are different theories about why different creatures came out. It could be that the black goo in the "pots" in the temple room is not all the same. Maybe there are different varieties that we don't know about. So one option is that, I suppose. That the DNA in the pots is mixed with whatever the host is and the resulting offspring comes forth.

Another option is as you suggested, the atmospher plus the goo + host equals some type of offspring.

Another option would be what was in that Livejournal post that was so popular: that the offspring is determined by the motivation of the individual that it came in contact with.

I think David wanted to see what would happen exposing himself/humans to the goo... he didn't care much about contaminating the ship.

I agree. David is pretty much a dick in the movie and doesn't really care about the humans on the ship any more than a scientist cares about the lab rats he's experimenting on.

The lids seem to react to oxygen/atmosphere. I don't think the goo eats it, the air does. I think the temple area was sealed, notice the engineers are all wearing helmets when they try and flee there.

This is one option, and it's the one that they float in the movie. I'm wondering if the atmosphere changing isn't what awakens the goo, but the presence of DNA. The atmosphere was created in that ship and so it seems like the presence of a few humans and the negligible amount of carbon dioxide they'd emit would be more than offset by the atmosphere. I'm thinking it was their presence. DNA seems to be the most logical conclusion to me, based on the foreshadowing we got in the opening sequence/credits.

 

[Flo_Evans]

One of the major facets of the Prometheus myth that has a strange tendency to be neglected in popular culture and in these sorts of discussions is that he created humanity. That has very clear bearing on the film as well.

Really? I thought it was Zuess... I probably should of read up on my mythology before seeing this!

/off to wikipedia!

 

[Keylime]

Sorry don't know if this has been posted, but the thread is so long I can't check.

Some production set shots of the space jockeys. I have a question:

The 'suits' they are wearing weren't suits at all but a part of their physiology?

https://www.dropbox.com/gallery/4083772/1//Engineer?h=977393&p=0
http://i.imgur.com/GjXZW.jpg[MG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/M6cMI.jpg[IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/UlDQm.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

The opening scene we see an Engineer take his robe off and have a perfectly sculpted chest/abs...so I think it's safe to say that that is a suit.

 

[Sub_Level]

IT doesn't effect him because he HAS NO DNA. jesus are people being obtuse or just trying to hate?

Yeah, that's probably why.

Wasn't it always accepted before Prometheus that the SJ in Alien was always a suit? Or am I crazy.

Well, you're not crazy, but the consensus was that they were elephantine in nature (as in like they had a trunk and stuff).

 

[Flo_Evans]

Agreed.



There are different theories about why different creatures came out. It could be that the black goo in the "pots" in the temple room is not all the same. Maybe there are different varieties that we don't know about. So one option is that, I suppose. That the DNA in the pots is mixed with whatever the host is and the resulting offspring comes forth.

Another option is as you suggested, the atmospher plus the goo + host equals some type of offspring.

Another option would be what was in that Livejournal post that was so popular: that the offspring is determined by the motivation of the individual that it came in contact with.



I agree. David is pretty much a dick in the movie and doesn't really care about the humans on the ship any more than a scientist cares about the lab rats he's experimenting on.



This is one option, and it's the one that they float in the movie. I'm wondering if the atmosphere changing isn't what awakens the goo, but the presence of DNA. The atmosphere was created in that ship and so it seems like the presence of a few humans and the negligible amount of carbon dioxide they'd emit would be more than offset by the atmosphere. I'm thinking it was their presence. DNA seems to be the most logical conclusion to me, based on the foreshadowing we got in the opening sequence/credits.

but there was already worms and an alien head in the chamber before they opened it.


Another random thought. I think David choose Shaw's BFF because he was the 1st to take off his helmet. He also asked him if he would do anything to meet his creator, after he said yes, then he spiked the drink.

 

[DECK'ARD]

The opening scene we see an Engineer take his robe off and have a perfectly sculpted chest/abs...so I think it's safe to say that that is a suit.

Shame that, as you'd then have a reason for the exoskeleton of the xenos.

 

[Keylime]

but there was already worms and an alien head in the chamber before they opened it.


Another random thought. I think David choose Shaw's BFF because he was the 1st to take off his helmet. He also asked him if he would do anything to meet his creator, after he said yes, then he spiked the drink.

That...or David just thought Holloway was an ass. The entire lead-up to David infecting his drink, Holloway is constantly giving David shit for being an Android.

If I were David...that's the dude I'm experimenting on.

 

[Count Dookkake]

It appears to be a suit, but looking at the edges around the neck and cuffs, it could be bonded to the Engineers, or a result of genetic modification.

Also, the suit has spiracles.

 

[BravesCountry]

Really?

I prefer concise, as expanding things to Biblical proportions often causes problems

Very clever, I see what you did there

 

[Flo_Evans]

Yes, but some were positing that these more recent engineers were higher evolved versions of the Engineer that seeded the planet.

I'm more willing to believe that they are just suits though.

Could also be a different class of engineered person. You could have "seeders" "workers" "soilders" "pilots" ect.. all be slightly different and suited (heh) to their task in a race so capable of manipulating DNA.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Could also be a different class of engineered person. You could have "seeders" "workers" "soilders" "pilots" ect.. all be slightly different and suited (heh) to their task in a race so capable of manipulating DNA.

This fits in with my comment about it being funny if it turns out that the Engineers have a more-or-less insect society.

 

[Mondriaan]

Really? I thought it was Zuess... I probably should of read up on my mythology before seeing this!

/off to wikipedia!

Well, after reading that entry, I'm more convinced that Pandora's jar's analog in the movie are the urns filled with black goop.

 

[Ashhong]

Well, you're not crazy, but the consensus was that they were elephantine in nature (as in like they had a trunk and stuff).

Hm, I thought that trunk was just a part of their suit, like a breathing mechanism. I remember people talking about it in other Alien threads before Prom came out..

 

[Count Dookkake]

Hm, I thought that trunk was just a part of their suit, like a breathing mechanism. I remember people talking about it in other Alien threads before Prom came out..

Comics depicted them as a benevolent, elephant-trunked race.

 

[Zoe]

Aaah alright. I heard some blokes at work saying that Weyland ties into AvP in that some character is his like ... great great great grandson or something? It was basically the only way that I could consider Vickers character as having remotely any importance to the story.

Lance Henricksen played Charles Bishop Weyland. Hence Bishop from Aliens was supposed to be modeled after him.

 

[The Elite]

This fits in with my comment about it being funny if it turns out that the Engineers have a more-or-less insect society.

I didn't really get that impression from the film. Did I miss something?

Wow, I think we've had several posts without anyone saying how much the movie sucked. This is a good thing.

Lance Henricksen played Charles Bishop Weyland. Hence Bishop from Aliens was supposed to be modeled after him.

I wouldn't consider this character canonical from Scott's standpoint at all. I get the impression he doesn't care for those films or the Aliens and Predator connection.

 

[we.are.the.armada]

Thanks for explanations @speedymanic, andycapps, TheJollyCorner, RubxQub,

Sorry don't know if this has been posted, but the thread is so long I can't check.

Some production set shots of the space jockeys. I have a question:

The 'suits' they are wearing weren't suits at all but a part of their physiology?

https://www.dropbox.com/gallery/4083772/1//Engineer?h=977393&p=0

Ok, holy shit wait... that guy looks like his body is bio-mechanoid. Maybe the SJs are creations just like David. Pilot SJ has a robot body because he's a soldier class or something.

 

[Speedymanic]

Let's talk about the black goo:

Is it the fire of the gods; a technology that the SJs stole from something grander than themselves?

Does the black goo strive, by any means, to ultimately create xenomorphs?

Why is David spilling black goo and cracking the ampule all over that lab without a contamination suit on? Even if he'll be ok, he could carry the black goo particles on his skin and clothes all over the ship. What if it can become airborn? Did he know these things?

The black goo can seep through the lid of the urn but it can't penetrate David's skin? IIRC Ridley mentioned it being a "biomechinoid", so why no effect when it makes direct contact with David?

1. I don't think so, I think it's their creation.

2. he doesn't spill it everywhere and the ampule is created in such a way that only a drop comes out a time unless it's completely destroyed.

3. it seemingly reacts to emotions. David is emotionless. The goo stays inert.

 

[JB1981]

Huge write up.

Damn, son. I do like your take on the nature and behavior of the black goo, though.

 

[Count Dookkake]

I didn't really get that impression from the film. Did I miss something?

Wow, I think we've had several posts without anyone saying how much the movie sucked. This is a good thing.

Self-sacrifice, live in hives, uniform in appearance, easily prompted to violence to protect hive, etc.

Also, they created the xenos, perhaps in their own "image."

I say "funny" because the joke would be that we humans are hoping to find something better than humanity.

 

[andycapps]

This fits in with my comment about it being funny if it turns out that the Engineers have a more-or-less insect society.

More connected to Xenos than we thought? Meaning the Queen and the "soldier" aliens, all brought on by the egg, facehugger, chestburster, and then finally the xeno. Each have their roles and are consumed when the next phase starts.

 

[BigDes]

Don't we see the Space Jockey on Earth almost naked and he just looks like a large ripped human bodywise?

 

[JB1981]

Sorry don't know if this has been posted, but the thread is so long I can't check.

Some production set shots of the space jockeys. I have a question:

The 'suits' they are wearing weren't suits at all but a part of their physiology?

https://www.dropbox.com/gallery/4083772/1//Engineer?h=977393&p=0

Wow his exterior looks a lot like a xeno.

 

[Keylime]

More connected to Xenos than we thought? Meaning the Queen and the "soldier" aliens, all brought on by the egg, facehugger, chestburster, and then finally the xeno. Each have their roles and are consumed when the next phase starts.

I seriously wonder if Scott has any intentions of including the Queen as part of his Prometheus/Alien universe. Are there any quotes from Scott saying he considers Aliens canon or not? I can't seem to dig up anything on the subject.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Don't we see the Space Jockey on Earth almost naked and he just looks like a large ripped human bodywise?

It seems pretty clear from the art book and everything else that is coming out that the whole thing was put in a blender before being filmed.

In trying to support one aspect of the story other things got undermined.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Don't we see the Space Jockey on Earth almost naked and he just looks like a large ripped human bodywise?

Yeah but that could of been millions/billions of years ago.

They had a different ship, and presumably they where experimenting on their own DNA as well.

I am more leaning towards the idea that earth was just a test, they send down a candidate + some goo and see what happens. Curiosity is their goal.

 

[Summary Man]

What was your opinion of the movie, Count? I'm interested in hearing your impressions.

 

[we.are.the.armada]

3. it seemingly reacts to emotions. David is emotionless. The goo stays inert.

It also, if it is inside of that SJ head, is reacting to electricity. I don't really buy the whole emotion response of the black goo theory either.

But David is smiling and happy when he's looking at the goo wriggling upward from that urn, right? Why couldn't he have emotions? His product description says, "David 8 can record, process, understand and express many complex emotions, but he will never know true human feelings such as love, grief and compassion."

It was inert, at least in the one urn, because he sprayed it with plot.

Dammit is there anything this goo can't do for convenience sake?

 

[Speedymanic]

It seems pretty clear from the art book and everything else that is coming out that the whole thing was put in a blender before being filmed.

In trying to support one aspect of the story other things got undermined.

Almost like another Scott film.

*cough* KoH *cough*

Seriously, how has the script for this still not come out yet?