The Elite
BOSS
I recall that it wasn't Scott's intention for there to be a Queen Alien. I wonder if he considers the Queen Alien part of his story now.
PROMETHEUS UNMARKED SPOILER THREAD!
- Thread starter Chopper
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I recall that it wasn't Scott's intention for there to be a Queen Alien. I wonder if he considers the Queen Alien part of his story now.
The goo seems to react only to organic life.
I think I read he considers Alien and Aliens canon.
Why are you assuming there was goo in that space jockeys head? I didn't get that impression at all.
Count Dookkake
Member
Sloppy script, more-or-less great everything else.
Needs about 15% improvement in a few key spots and it would be a classic.
As it is, it is still better than most Hollywood product.
I don't have a problem with most of the so-called "plot holes."
Yep, Prometheus' creation of mankind has a more direct translation in the film. What works on a more thematic/metaphorical level is the theft of fire to speed up the progress of civilization, and in that light (hyuk hyuk) speculation abounds, but the whole creation aspect is close to literal (with the lingering question of how many Engineers were involved with Earth, since it apparently takes only one sacrifice to populate a planet).
This could be where it's headed - that the Engineers are nothing like humans outside of sharing similar biology, and are effectively "soulless" entities, with David the android containing much more in the way of basic humanity. The Engineers may have never truly given a shit about mankind except as easily manipulated, walking incubators, which gives a dark twist on the Prometheus myth.
Speedymanic
Banned
His head was essentially dead, so was the goo/infection. The device tricked his brain/remaining system into thinking he was alive and the goo reawakened in the state it was before he died.
There are very clear indicators it reacts to emotion. Holloway ingested the goo but didn't mutate, instead he appeared to be dissolving, much like the engineer at the beginning. Throughout his short time in the movie, we sees he's not prone to violence and is generally a calm person.
Fifield, on the other hand is shown to be aggressive, quick to anger and generally a dick. He also just so happens to mutate into a crazed, super powered killing machine which eventually mutates into a Xeno of some form (as evidenced by the artbook pics).
David. He might be able of mimicking emotion but he can't actually feel. It's mentioned many times, he can act like a dick, smile, etc...but it's all superficial, it's programming.
The goo requires more, a physical connection of sorts before it becomes active. Although this is a guess on my part, but there are scenes throughout the movie to support this.
I had the impression that he was infected. He was showing the same symptoms Holloway suffered after ingesting the black goo.
That's a she???she never appeared in the movie....deleted scenes?
Count Dookkake
Member
The Elite
BOSS
Doesn't look like a she. I don't recall him/her being in the movie either. Just the guy in the front.
Actually, this is a pretty good summary of my opinion on it. I think that a reworked Director's Cut could make it into a classic, potentially. Much like how I hated the theatrical cut of KoH and thought characters behaved irrationally and had no motivations to do the things they did. Then I saw the Director's Cut and it made 100% more sense and I didn't understand how that wasn't the cut that was released in theaters.
DECK'ARD said:
You're probably right, there can't possibly be answers for what is introduced in the movie. Scott probably said "fuck it" to the idea that he finally got to revisit a universe that he'd wanted to come back to for 30 years. Heck, he probably read the GAF threads on LOST and knows how much everyone hates Lindelof and picked him just to piss us off.
Speedymanic
Banned
That's not a she, bro.
The scene is from the extended intro, which was cut but will be on the BR.
we.are.the.armada
Member
Shaw was talking about the cellular structure of the head changing right? They couldn't stop it from changing even when bowlcut turned down the charge and the head blew up. I was under the assumption that he was infected like Holloway or mohawk. Why didn't you get that impression? What do you think happened?
Well we know for sure at least one visited (cave paintings) and taught us some stuff... again we don't know why. This could of been "space jesus" visiting us, and the other engineers didn't like it so they planned to wipe us out.
would fit with the myth. well sorta. They would wipe him out then he would regrow his liver then get it eaten again...
catotheyounger
Member
So a SJ ship still needs to crash on LV 426, right? Pro2 and Pro3 will presumably bridge that gap. What's the over under that Shaw dies piloting the derilict ship from Alien and is the SJ from the film? She would confront the xenomorph as we knew them at that point, right?
Zoe
Member
Cause goo started leaking out?
Nappuccino
Member
re: squid.
Could that be what happens with the black goo directly affects sperm?
Could that be what happens with the black goo directly affects sperm?
I simply thought that the electricity was just too much and it blew up the head. Holloway was going to either turn or dissolve, not blow up. At least, that's what I think.
Also, I like how bowlcut has caught on haha.
Well obviously I didn't notice or remember this. And it seems like others didn't as well. This movie needs a rewatch.
Yes the opening scene originally had two Engineers. This scene will be available as a cut scene on the DVD. It was confirmed on Twitter by actor who was in the scene.
Subtle. When art and production stills spend as much time contradicting the movie as the movie does contradicting itself it does suggest a bit of a mess really.
Sort of the mess that would be created by taking a weak standalone premise, meshing it with Alien, picking a name for marketing reasons, and then tying to make it all tie together in some deep meaningful way. Picking someone to help who likes to try and tie such unrelated things together using ambiguity and confusing narrative.
That's what it seemed like to me while watching it, and what it seems even more like now, but hey let's all cross our fingers, hope a Director's Cut fixes the problems people have and that the sequel manages to be a satisfying film in its own right because this sure isn't a promising start and could have been done much better.
There was a substance on the surface of his head before they reanimated him. It looked similar to the goo. Then his head exploded and green stuff came out.
TheJollyCorner
Member
I also wonder about the end result on Holloway would have been, had he not been torched.
Is it safe to assume Fifield was dead right after the acid to the face/melting helmet? His body collapses into the goo... so the goo proceeds to reanimate his corpse (necromorph!). The goo must be a highly complex material, as necromorph Fifield is fully mobile, aggressive, and has the ability to be moderately strategic. If the unused designs are anything to go by, he is morphing into more of a xenomorph... or a creature with xenomorph traits.
So again- is the black goo creating new life, but changing his DNA into something totally different?
Fifield didn't outright consume the goo; it just presumably absorbed into him when he fell into it dead.
This leads me to Holloway.
-Ancient Engineer consumes a decent quantity; immediately begins to deteriorate and the change, although rapid on a cellular level, absorbs into the water and creates the foundation for us.
-Holloway consumes a tiny amount via champagne-glass trick. Obviously it works quickly into his system, as he impregnates Shaw an hour or so after infected, but he doesn't deteriorate like the ancient Engineer did. Slow changes begin happening, the goo starts manifesting physically (tiny worm in the eye), and in a few hours he's writhing in pain. His physicality is clearly changing, but he's not dissolving.
Makes me wonder: had be been left alive, what would happen with his change? Would he have a heart-attack and die (extreme pain), thus the goo properties take over the same way it did with Fifield and begin xeno-morphing him? Would it have manifested into something completely different?
We'll never know, but it seems to me that the goo destroys existing life for the sole purpose of forming new life.
Alive or dead, I wonder if the end result with human DNA always = some proto-xeno hybrid?
When injected/impregnated via organism created by the black goo (see: Trilobite), perhaps it creates a more structured xeno, like in the end?
Making me believe more and more that the xenomorph eggs from Alien are bio-weapons made by the Engineers in their control of the black goo... and their injection/impregnation via a face-hugger produces the more advanced xeno that we all know and love.
Or maybe not.
Is it safe to assume Fifield was dead right after the acid to the face/melting helmet? His body collapses into the goo... so the goo proceeds to reanimate his corpse (necromorph!). The goo must be a highly complex material, as necromorph Fifield is fully mobile, aggressive, and has the ability to be moderately strategic. If the unused designs are anything to go by, he is morphing into more of a xenomorph... or a creature with xenomorph traits.
So again- is the black goo creating new life, but changing his DNA into something totally different?
Fifield didn't outright consume the goo; it just presumably absorbed into him when he fell into it dead.
This leads me to Holloway.
-Ancient Engineer consumes a decent quantity; immediately begins to deteriorate and the change, although rapid on a cellular level, absorbs into the water and creates the foundation for us.
-Holloway consumes a tiny amount via champagne-glass trick. Obviously it works quickly into his system, as he impregnates Shaw an hour or so after infected, but he doesn't deteriorate like the ancient Engineer did. Slow changes begin happening, the goo starts manifesting physically (tiny worm in the eye), and in a few hours he's writhing in pain. His physicality is clearly changing, but he's not dissolving.
Makes me wonder: had be been left alive, what would happen with his change? Would he have a heart-attack and die (extreme pain), thus the goo properties take over the same way it did with Fifield and begin xeno-morphing him? Would it have manifested into something completely different?
We'll never know, but it seems to me that the goo destroys existing life for the sole purpose of forming new life.
Alive or dead, I wonder if the end result with human DNA always = some proto-xeno hybrid?
When injected/impregnated via organism created by the black goo (see: Trilobite), perhaps it creates a more structured xeno, like in the end?
Making me believe more and more that the xenomorph eggs from Alien are bio-weapons made by the Engineers in their control of the black goo... and their injection/impregnation via a face-hugger produces the more advanced xeno that we all know and love.
Or maybe not.
I was curious about this and I paid close attention in my second viewing.
The 'suit' definitely appears to be integrated into the body of the climax Engineer. There is no edge at the neck and wrists and the 'suit' even seems to be integrated into the Engineer's spine.
Add this to the pile of topics for speculation. I'm sure this issue, as well as the issue of the Engineers' society will be dealt with in the sequel.
we.are.the.armada
Member
I bet he would have turned into the creature they cut from the film - that quasi-mutant-xenomorph. Or maybe Holloway's squid heritage would have transformed him into a kraken.
symphonask
Member
I think he was still alive when he fell into the goo. Remember the dead Engineer's head they bring back to the lab? The goo stopped reacting to it because it was inanimate/dead, but once they reanimated the brain using electricity, the goo came into effect again and rapidly decomposed and blew up the head. Also, when the head was reanimated, it's expression seemed to be of extreme distress.
TheJollyCorner
Member
Your thinking also might help my theory of the goo reacting when the human DNA came into the room. I don't think it was the atmosphere changing.
One thing is for sure, I need to watch this again... don't know if I can wait for the bluray!
Does anyone have a set pic or a still from the altar in the throne room?
What was up with that huge green crystal? Was it an altar or a crypt? I feel bummed they never fully explored this room, seems like allot of the engineers own mythology/religion was in there.
Does anyone have a set pic or a still from the altar in the throne room?
What was up with that huge green crystal? Was it an altar or a crypt? I feel bummed they never fully explored this room, seems like allot of the engineers own mythology/religion was in there.
The guy who got infected, Holloway, said something like "....it's just another tomb" when looking at the green crystal thing before they all began to leave quickly.
TheJollyCorner
Member
weird fleshy xeno-hybrid > generic hairy/deformed beserker monster
still can't get over the decision to change that.
Maybe they couldn't get the xeno-hybrid to look right when filming? Reminds me of John Carpenter saying if most of the practical effects in The Thing were filmed in broad daylight people would have been laughing their way out of the theater.
I also feel like one of the few people that actually liked Fifield's strange, broken-body crab-pose introduction.
Again, I think it would have been a lot more eerie and unnerving had he shown up like this:
The green crystal to be green and mysterious, it was originally a bowl.
The altar mainly a shrine to Giger, the whole room could be as a throwback to the other films, but of course it might not be as well.
TheJollyCorner
Member
never explained. We just know it was directly in front of the massive xenomorph mural for some reason.
in original production pictures (actually with the Holloway actor) it shows a bowl like the one the Engineer drinks from in the beginning. Some speculate that was just a temporary prop, though.
Anton Sugar
Member
TheJollyCorner, do you have links to these Fifield concepts you're mentioning?
Keylime
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TheJollyCorner
Member
I just google "prometheus fifield original designs" in Google Images.
The images are from the art book and Neal Scanlan's website.
edit: or just follow RubxQub's link, lol
Anton Sugar
Member
Yeah, sorry, just went a few pages back and found them, too. Thanks!
Nappuccino
Member
Having Fiefield show up with just a mutated head makes more sense than having him in crab position. My first thought is "his helmet is ground level, the camera shows some weird log like thing out there, and you're reaction is 'open the door and let him in'? You must be joking"
But if he was standing, just with a bigger head... then it would make a lot more sense.
But if he was standing, just with a bigger head... then it would make a lot more sense.
Zoe
Member
The theater I went to played a scene from The Thing before the movie (
autopsy
TheJollyCorner
Member
haha yeah.
#1. I wouldn't have opened up at all.
#2. If I felt crazy enough to open, I would have had 5 guys standing in a line with flame throwers instantly ready to burn. In that position, on a strange alien planet... fuuuuu
Nappuccino
Member
I really like the alternate Fifield makeup. I hope that (along with the elongated arms) ends up in the director's cut.
TheJollyCorner
Member
loved that pale-skin look to the proto-xeno.
I have no doubts FOX forced them to make it look more like the familiar xeno so the audience would collectively scream out "DUDE! GET AWAY FROM HER YOU BITCHHHH LULZ it's from aliens!!!" :/
I have no doubts FOX forced them to make it look more like the familiar xeno so the audience would collectively scream out "DUDE! GET AWAY FROM HER YOU BITCHHHH LULZ it's from aliens!!!" :/
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I kinda suspect the suit, when put on properly, fuses to the skin of the occupant at a cellular level, but that doesn't mean it's permanent. When that Engineer sat down in the jockey seat, look closely - additional plates of armor slide over the arms of his suit, and meld with making them appear to be a part of it. One would presume when he got up again, those components woud un-merge and retract.
Likewise, when taking off his suit, the suit's material would extract itself from his body.
Count Dookkake
Member
Anton Sugar
Member
Seeing these concepts has renewed hope in a strong DC. Honestly, Fifield's "turn" is one thing that just makes ZERO sense to me in the film.
Having the goo actually TURN the victim into a xeno-type creature is more in line with Ridley's original Alien lifecycle, in which the alien cocoons victims to slowly turn them into xeno's.
Having the goo actually TURN the victim into a xeno-type creature is more in line with Ridley's original Alien lifecycle, in which the alien cocoons victims to slowly turn them into xeno's.
The crystal was in front of the huge mural that showed the Xenomorph in a christ-like pose. Halloway said it was "just a tomb" and we never got to see what was in there.
TheJollyCorner
Member
wasn't he saying that entire structure in general (or that room in particular) was the 'tomb'?
Now, we did see another door when Fifield and Millburn found the massive collection of dead engineers. The bodies were stacked up against it.
We never saw what was in there, unless it was just another access door to the ship.
Okay, after sleeping on this:
PROMETHEUS Human Indoctrination Theory:
Engineers are a peaceful race experimenting with creation of life. They use magic black goo for experiments, and results are very different in different conditions. Sometimes they create humans like in the opening scene, but sometimes they create Xenomorphs, like depicted in the mural on that ship. They don't care much about humans, but they obviously keep xenomorphs under very strict control.
Unknown year, Wild Speculations: Engineers come across extremely violent, warlike civilization of Predators, which presents itself like a worst amalgamation of Roman and British empires. Predators see peaceful yet incredibly advanced Engineers as a perfect hunting target. Without having any weapons (the only alive engineer in the movie doesn't even take a gun from anywhere when he goes after Shaw), the only options for Engineers are to submit to Predators or to wipe their civilization out by unleashing xenomorphs on them. Even strong, violent and weaponized Predators can't stand the results of their planet being bombed with black goo/xenomorphs eggs. Engineers save lots of predator children and teach them to treasure peace and life over millenia. Military command of Predators, however, escapes and brings some of the xenomorph eggs with them.
Alien vs. Predator: They discover a planet which can sustain them, and it's Earth. It's also populated by very primitive Engineers, maybe even our herbivore ancestors. Predators know that Engineers are somehow involved in this planet's past, so they become our gods and teach humanity how to be brutal, violent, enjoy hunt and eat meat. Instead of primitive communism like Marxists used to call our initial state, strong leadership based only on power, violence and free market shapes human societies. Predators also use humans to build pyramids in which they place xenomorphs' eggs to train against them for whenever the time comes for their revenge. Predators also know where the black goo came from, and that's why they teach humans the star map they find in Prometheus: if there ever shows up any ship from there, you're DOOOOOMED.
Space Jesus, around year 0: Everything goes according to Predator's keikaku* until Engineers stumble on Earth and see that not only the violent race they thought they now completely keep under control somehow managed to recreate itself, but they also found proto-engineers and taught them how to make weapons and be as violent and brutal, including latest gift from Gods the whole Roman Empire enjoys so much: gladiator fights. Engineers are outraged. They send their emissary, Space Jesus, to Earth to try and teach humans how to be peaceful and love each other and that Predators are not Gods but actually Demons they shouldn't listen to. Humans, however, not only brutally kill Space Jesus, but also let Predators know about Engineers showing up. Engineers are scared and hopeless, they decide to use their last option: bomb Earth with black goo and xenomorphs to kill both Predators and predator-lite humans. They are, however, slowed down by their own love for life and are very reluctant to kill species which is their exact DNA match.
This gives Predators time to prepare for war, and at some unfortunate for Engineers moment, Predator fleet descends on LV-223. Engineers don't have any weapons, and don't keep xenomorphs just sitting around, so they are slaughtered within minutes. Remember those running holograms from Prometheus? We never see what they were running from because those were invisible Predators. Why were they running to the room with Xenomorph mural and black goo? To sacrifice themselves and unleash xenomorphs to defeat Predators. But they failed, and were all brutally slaughtered, all but one, who hid in a pile of corpses. Predators read the map to Engineers homeworld, or maybe even tortured one to give up information on its location and took their fleet there, which also leads somehow to one of the Engineer ships falling down on LV-426 (we don't know its origin or its destination, but it happens around this time). The only surviving Engineer is severely wounded and goes to medical pod/stasis capsule combination in hope that he will soon be awakened by his own brethren.
Year ~2000, We don't know what happened, but here are some more speculations:
(AVP
Predators no longer live on earth as gods, but still use old pyramids for their ritual xenomorph killings. (Predator 1&2 They also consider humans advanced and violent enough for their skulls to be worthy hunting trophy. (Predators They also control some other planet and use it as a more pure, safe hunting ground, probably for their young. There are also 2 types of Predators: good old violent ones and those who were raised by Engineers, and they don't like each other.
Engineers are nowhere to be found. They never came to figure out what happened to LV-223. They never rescued their ship/team on LV-426. For all we know, Engineers are extinct except that one guy sleeping in stasis pod.
Prometheus (2092): humans find LV-223 and last Engineer. He sees humans and thinks they might have been saved, but something David says gives out clear indication that they are Engineers only by DNA, but Predators by their culture. Last Engineer knows that it means only one thing: Engineers are extinct and Predators won. He smashes humans in his blind rage, and wants to do the only thing he can still do - destroy Earth to avenge his, can't even say race since they are the same race as humans. Let's say, to avenge his civilization and to save Universe from evil humans, but he fails.
Alien/more movies (22nd century?): humans come into contact with xenomorphs ship on LV-426 was carrying and all that stuff happens.
More speculations:
2154: Bad violent brutal humans try to kill off peaceful Navi's for personal gain just like Predators taught them.
40000: God-Emperor is some kind of Engineer and is the last hope of humanity in the battle to wipe out every other race as well as heretics and mutants. Predators and Navi's are already extinct. Space Marines are Engineer-human hybrids: they are huge and strong as Engineers, but still have hair sometimes. Chaos is self-aware black magic goo.
*keikaku means plan
PROMETHEUS Human Indoctrination Theory:
Engineers are a peaceful race experimenting with creation of life. They use magic black goo for experiments, and results are very different in different conditions. Sometimes they create humans like in the opening scene, but sometimes they create Xenomorphs, like depicted in the mural on that ship. They don't care much about humans, but they obviously keep xenomorphs under very strict control.
Unknown year, Wild Speculations: Engineers come across extremely violent, warlike civilization of Predators, which presents itself like a worst amalgamation of Roman and British empires. Predators see peaceful yet incredibly advanced Engineers as a perfect hunting target. Without having any weapons (the only alive engineer in the movie doesn't even take a gun from anywhere when he goes after Shaw), the only options for Engineers are to submit to Predators or to wipe their civilization out by unleashing xenomorphs on them. Even strong, violent and weaponized Predators can't stand the results of their planet being bombed with black goo/xenomorphs eggs. Engineers save lots of predator children and teach them to treasure peace and life over millenia. Military command of Predators, however, escapes and brings some of the xenomorph eggs with them.
Alien vs. Predator: They discover a planet which can sustain them, and it's Earth. It's also populated by very primitive Engineers, maybe even our herbivore ancestors. Predators know that Engineers are somehow involved in this planet's past, so they become our gods and teach humanity how to be brutal, violent, enjoy hunt and eat meat. Instead of primitive communism like Marxists used to call our initial state, strong leadership based only on power, violence and free market shapes human societies. Predators also use humans to build pyramids in which they place xenomorphs' eggs to train against them for whenever the time comes for their revenge. Predators also know where the black goo came from, and that's why they teach humans the star map they find in Prometheus: if there ever shows up any ship from there, you're DOOOOOMED.
Space Jesus, around year 0: Everything goes according to Predator's keikaku* until Engineers stumble on Earth and see that not only the violent race they thought they now completely keep under control somehow managed to recreate itself, but they also found proto-engineers and taught them how to make weapons and be as violent and brutal, including latest gift from Gods the whole Roman Empire enjoys so much: gladiator fights. Engineers are outraged. They send their emissary, Space Jesus, to Earth to try and teach humans how to be peaceful and love each other and that Predators are not Gods but actually Demons they shouldn't listen to. Humans, however, not only brutally kill Space Jesus, but also let Predators know about Engineers showing up. Engineers are scared and hopeless, they decide to use their last option: bomb Earth with black goo and xenomorphs to kill both Predators and predator-lite humans. They are, however, slowed down by their own love for life and are very reluctant to kill species which is their exact DNA match.
This gives Predators time to prepare for war, and at some unfortunate for Engineers moment, Predator fleet descends on LV-223. Engineers don't have any weapons, and don't keep xenomorphs just sitting around, so they are slaughtered within minutes. Remember those running holograms from Prometheus? We never see what they were running from because those were invisible Predators. Why were they running to the room with Xenomorph mural and black goo? To sacrifice themselves and unleash xenomorphs to defeat Predators. But they failed, and were all brutally slaughtered, all but one, who hid in a pile of corpses. Predators read the map to Engineers homeworld, or maybe even tortured one to give up information on its location and took their fleet there, which also leads somehow to one of the Engineer ships falling down on LV-426 (we don't know its origin or its destination, but it happens around this time). The only surviving Engineer is severely wounded and goes to medical pod/stasis capsule combination in hope that he will soon be awakened by his own brethren.
Year ~2000, We don't know what happened, but here are some more speculations:
(AVP
Predators no longer live on earth as gods, but still use old pyramids for their ritual xenomorph killings. (Predator 1&2 They also consider humans advanced and violent enough for their skulls to be worthy hunting trophy. (Predators They also control some other planet and use it as a more pure, safe hunting ground, probably for their young. There are also 2 types of Predators: good old violent ones and those who were raised by Engineers, and they don't like each other. Engineers are nowhere to be found. They never came to figure out what happened to LV-223. They never rescued their ship/team on LV-426. For all we know, Engineers are extinct except that one guy sleeping in stasis pod.
Prometheus (2092): humans find LV-223 and last Engineer. He sees humans and thinks they might have been saved, but something David says gives out clear indication that they are Engineers only by DNA, but Predators by their culture. Last Engineer knows that it means only one thing: Engineers are extinct and Predators won. He smashes humans in his blind rage, and wants to do the only thing he can still do - destroy Earth to avenge his, can't even say race since they are the same race as humans. Let's say, to avenge his civilization and to save Universe from evil humans, but he fails.
Alien/more movies (22nd century?): humans come into contact with xenomorphs ship on LV-426 was carrying and all that stuff happens.
More speculations:
2154: Bad violent brutal humans try to kill off peaceful Navi's for personal gain just like Predators taught them.
40000: God-Emperor is some kind of Engineer and is the last hope of humanity in the battle to wipe out every other race as well as heretics and mutants. Predators and Navi's are already extinct. Space Marines are Engineer-human hybrids: they are huge and strong as Engineers, but still have hair sometimes. Chaos is self-aware black magic goo.
*keikaku means plan
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