PROMETHEUS UNMARKED SPOILER THREAD!
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Eh, either one. I bet people would have less objections to Prometheus though if the aliens were sexy blue cat people. They're both full of terrible characters and plot holes you could fly a spaceship through.
Nappuccino
Member
Lazy with excessive foreshadowing and a disregard for characters. They're all cardboard cut-outs.
I think a lot of people just don't understand what a plot hole really is. By definition, there really isn't a single plot thread in the movie that isn't consistent with both the narrative and the visual design...
Prometheus on the other hand...well lol. Its not Revenge of the Fallen bad, but its close enough, as far as plot inconsistency at least.
Prometheus on the other hand...well lol. Its not Revenge of the Fallen bad, but its close enough, as far as plot inconsistency at least.
Who cares?
Malicks The New World is essentially a retelling the Disneyfied Pocahontas story, except with more trees. Doesn't make it any less amazing. Shit, might as well retroactively call Burrough's John Carter of Mars as Pocahontas in space as well if you want.
If you're going to discount a movie for the "stranger in the strange land" narrative, then you're gonna discount a whole load of em.
You are describing the plot too loosely. When we are referring to Pocahontas we mean the "sappy, toothless and uninteresting" Disney execution of it.
THE-Pink-Dagger
Member
Anything you say I don't agree with, different strokes and everything......
I and some people care. The kind of success that Avatar gets ensures that less original, more critical-thinking movies would be made. Why would they make more original movies when retelling stories with extravagant CGI will sell a lot? They didn't even bother making at least one character in Avatar to go beyond their 'goodie' and 'baddie' roles. There's nothing inherently interesting about their personalities.
I haven't seen it. But in general, yeah if the story truly is as bad as the disney movie, it can't bode well for the movie.
Movies that require critical thought arent going to stop being made just because a film with a simple story (but yet was probably riskier to make and finance than any other film made in the past decade) made 3 billion dollars.
Inception made a lot of money, Prometheus did decent enough. These are high budget movies that most people like to point to as blockbusters that require "critical thought" (though really Inception simply requires critical thought so you can realise its simple as shit, and Prometheus so you can realise its dumb as bricks). In the end, Avatar is no different than say Jurassic Park, or any Indy movie, or whatever. Simple stories made to entertain audiences. That's it.
Inception made a lot of money, Prometheus did decent enough. These are high budget movies that most people like to point to as blockbusters that require "critical thought" (though really Inception simply requires critical thought so you can realise its simple as shit, and Prometheus so you can realise its dumb as bricks). In the end, Avatar is no different than say Jurassic Park, or any Indy movie, or whatever. Simple stories made to entertain audiences. That's it.
Really? Then how do you explain the main characters magical transforming accent?
Stuggernaut
Grandma's Chippy
I saw this in the theater and came away with an "ok, I guess" kind of feeling.
Watched it again with my wife last night (she had not seen it) and I enjoyed it more the second time around.
With that said, I think my only serious problems with the movie were...
- The engineers being so violent. I didn't expect bear hugs and cookies but I also did not expect planet genocide and wake up decapitations.
- The sheer stupidity of the main characters..
I could go on.
Despite those annoyances it was not horrible.
Watched it again with my wife last night (she had not seen it) and I enjoyed it more the second time around.
With that said, I think my only serious problems with the movie were...
- The engineers being so violent. I didn't expect bear hugs and cookies but I also did not expect planet genocide and wake up decapitations.
- The sheer stupidity of the main characters..
- Lets act scared shitless the entire time but decide to get cuddly with what looks like a snake on an alien planet.
- When you are a scientist and you see alient worms in your eyeball, lets risk everyone else getting infected and just tag along and hope for the best.
- Lets wake up the superior alien being who has so obviously created some sort of biological weapon, that killed everything around him, and hope he wants to be friends
- When a giant ship is crashing to the planet, lets run under it instead of off to one side.
I could go on.
Despite those annoyances it was not horrible.
Karma Kramer
Banned
True, but the same could be said about Star Wars. Let's be real here... Avatar was never going to be some kind of intellectual critical thinking movie. It's purely a social/cultural critique, which main purpose is to immerse/entertain you while also reaching a wide audience. The film is anti-war and anti-oil/corporate. Very simplistic yes, but again, what did you expect? Prometheus had the potential of doing the same, the only problem it had was it was unfocused/muddled. While there are tons of theories on Prometheus being a Christian film, I'd argue it is Pro-Jesus / Anti-present day Christian and is truly an Agnostic Sci-Fi. The ending, with our Creators hating us and the general anti-climatic build that unfolds while also leaving us with a cliff hanger/tease is essentially a metaphor of Death. David being the most likable and intelligent character also destroys the notion that there is something special about being human aka divine.
Also, Prometheus had a lot of shitty plot, character motivations, and plotholes. But at the very least, the film produces discussions about a lot of things including religion, the point of existence, who created us, AI development, etc. Interesting stuff that I often ponder but don't discuss much with other people. The film caused people to somehow talk more about it.
With Avatar, I came up blank apart from "Well, that was some nice CG".
While the film is clearly anti-science, I can't see how it can be argued that it is pro-Christian. Or pro- any organised religion, for that matter.
In fact, the core theme around Shaw keeping her Catholic faith is arguably the most idiotic thing about the plot. As it's been a long time since I've read the Bible, but I don't remember Genesis talking about how God is in fact a bunch of aliens who created mankind after drinking too much black sambuca.
In fact, the core theme around Shaw keeping her Catholic faith is arguably the most idiotic thing about the plot. As it's been a long time since I've read the Bible, but I don't remember Genesis talking about how God is in fact a bunch of aliens who created mankind after drinking too much black sambuca.
Karma Kramer
Banned
Wait how is Prometheus anti-science?
I never asked myself any of those questions after watching it. Those tropes are in other series, in which they're handled much better.
I think some people view what's her face's never-wavering religious faith -- in the face of scientific discovery -- as somehow having the film giving way to there being a creator (god) and not a random evolution.
That one article about the scientific validity of various aspects of Avatar posted around the time of its release was far more interesting than any single discussion generated about Prometheus.
Also, Prometheus had a lot of shitty plot, character motivations, and plotholes. But at the very least, the film produces discussions about a lot of things including religion, the point of existence, who created us, AI development, etc. Interesting stuff that I often ponder but don't discuss much with other people. The film caused people to somehow talk more about it.
With Avatar, I came up blank apart from "Well, that was some nice CG".
killertofu
Member
Uh how is Avatar pro-science?
If you want it to be!
Not really into avatar fandom wank disguised as scientific talk.
It's not like any of that religious mumbo-jumbo, this neural network connection is for reals man!
No, it's not just the religious tone of some of it. But in the absolute rejection of basic scientific principles of the crew members.
Imagine if, rather than spending weeks slowly preparing and calibrating the Curiosity rover, the first thing that NASA did was said 'fuck it', put it on manual and did a bunch of sweet jumps off the nearest rocks. That's pretty much what the scientific crew of Prometheus ended up doing.
http://digitaldigging.net/prometheus-an-archaeological-perspective/
Karma Kramer
Banned
Prometheus seems to suggest that our creators are mortal and can be killed by their creations aka not God. The Space Jesus stuff seems to suggest that Jesus was legit, but that after we killed him humanity perverted itself into something bad which is why our creators no longer thought we should live... and the Bible/Religion in no way explains the Engineers intentions. They are also perversions aka not pure and need to be wiped out.
I start to read and immediately confront this:
If the writer of this blog is this movie illiterate then it doesn't bode well for the rest of the "article", just saying.
Ok I read further and it's just hyperbolic "hey look at me I'm using cusswords and had no fucking clue what happened in the movie" (was probably too busy writing and essay of it while watching the movie).
I don't see anything wrong with that statement. What do you think is wrong with it?
Really?
The movie is purely black and white in this regard. Science community leading communications with new species = harmony, exchange of ideas/culture/education, establishment of schools to further those goals. Once armed forces take over, results in child slaughter, home displacement, abandonment of communication, genocide. The science community is consistently shown as the one in the right, the voice of reason, the only people allowed to even stay on the planet. The PMC in the movie is spat on by Cameron in every which way. Dude isn't hiding his agenda, he never has.
Let say that had gone down the Space Jesus plot route, and that the Engineers got the hump with humans 2,000 years ago as they started worshipping someone else. What about the glaring fact that there were plenty of religions before Christianity, and that 2,000 years ago, Abrahamic religions were followed by a fraction of the World's population as they were condensed to a tiny part of the globe in the Middle East. The rest of the world had their own religions.
This plot only makes sense if Scott is saying that Christianity is different, as it is the only true religion. But then he conflicts this by showing that the Engineers created people, so, you know, the Bible is false.
Mixed messages, due to lazy, incoherent writing.
PastorOfMuppets
Banned
I don't understand this Promethus vs Avatar thing. Is this a NeoGaf thing or an internet wide thing?
Anywho, I just saw the movie last week and have not read up on this thread. Movie sucked.
The scientists are basically teens in a bad cliche slasher flick. They act incredibly stupid throughout the movie and almost all the deaths could have been avoided. So many dumb plot points
- Lands on an unknown planet - declines to bring along any weaponary.
- Spend trillions of dollars on a mission; only tell the crew members about after waking them up after two years in hibernation
- Lands on an unknown alien planet, brings protective suits to protect themselves from the environment just in case only to take off the helmet because it looks dumb
- Expert biologist who is scared of a decapitated dead alien decides to get cozy with something that looks like a snake.
- The cyborg's motivation for infecting one of the crew members is still unknown to me.
Anywho, I just saw the movie last week and have not read up on this thread. Movie sucked.
The scientists are basically teens in a bad cliche slasher flick. They act incredibly stupid throughout the movie and almost all the deaths could have been avoided. So many dumb plot points
- Lands on an unknown planet - declines to bring along any weaponary.
- Spend trillions of dollars on a mission; only tell the crew members about after waking them up after two years in hibernation
- Lands on an unknown alien planet, brings protective suits to protect themselves from the environment just in case only to take off the helmet because it looks dumb
- Expert biologist who is scared of a decapitated dead alien decides to get cozy with something that looks like a snake.
- The cyborg's motivation for infecting one of the crew members is still unknown to me.
Touche, but a little of both if you highlight that text I suppose. The thing with Avatar was the script itself was good, it was just boring because its been done a few times. Prometheus on the other hand was just a wreck on paper and in practice.
Karma Kramer
Banned
You are thinking too much about what is an Ameican SCIENCE FICTION blockbuster. Look at it from the perspective of the average American (aka religous) and it makes more sense. The whole set up with Shaw and all the other scientists dying, leads one to believe that maybe its Pro-Christian, but the conclusion is very much Agnostic/a representation of what one as a person of faith will experience when they are on that edge. The ground breaking below, the divine creator hating Shaw and Earth, the fact that the Engineer failed to even pull off his task at the hands of a black man. The film could have been brilliant, but there is indeed some major problems with the execution of it from a writing/logic standpoint. It could have been tweaked so that the second half of the film wouldn't have been out of place for the characters, but instead it felt forced.
Also the abortion scene is anti-pro life.
I had problems with the movie, but some of your issues were explained in the movie, I thought.
Ah, you're a Fundie. Right.
I don't think that means what you think it means.
You are now connecting the actual script and what Scott said in an interview. They are separate unless realised in the sequels. Who knows if all the prophets of ages were engineers or indeed none of them. We have no information of those events in the movie itself. Only symbolism.
...?
You are illiterate right? Joking? Because it's hard for me to believe you could be this dense.
You share the same feeling as most of GAF here, only over time we've collectively added many more items to your list... MANY more. There are gaping plot holes in the story but if you think about it more, remember the shit editing and pacing? Think about scenes (like the final axe scene) that last 5 seconds instead of at a minimum of 1 minute to build suspense.
Shaw makes it to the medipod
Robot head, "Hey yo, engineer is coming for you.. watch out!"
Shaw grabs axe
Cut immediately within 1ms to Engineer busting through the door
Cut immediately to it charging Shaw in 1 second
Cut immediately to Shaw pressing a button to release a conveintly placed massive monster that was aborted from her in the 3rd act and remained in that room because the crew magically didn't give a shit about an aborted alien life form onboard their ship
Cut immediately to Mr Tentacle beating the shit out of the big bad engineer
Shaw runs away with a robot head who knows there are now many other ships and can magically fly one of them. Shaw and robot live happily ever after ...
Credi... oh wait, no credits yet.. <insert canned Xenomorph scene that does nothing but piss in the face of Alien fans>
Fin
Karma Kramer
Banned
With most of them explained a hundred times in this very thread!
Karma Kramer
Banned
I thought it was pretty obvious Weyland didn't bring along some amazing group of scientists... he wanted them to be a problem for Shaw and her husband who were the only real threat to him. All he wanted was David to figure it out secretly so he could meet his maker, not anyone else.
It seemed like most of the scientists cared more about themselves/money than about science also... They weren't even briefed on the mission until they were there... it was all a set up.
It seemed like most of the scientists cared more about themselves/money than about science also... They weren't even briefed on the mission until they were there... it was all a set up.
I wonder whether pro-lifers would agree that abortion is OK if you've been impregnated by an Alien and the birth will kill you. AND IT CAN HAPPEN TO MEN, TOO.
I posted before you edited your post. I thought you were implying that SCIENCE FICTION means the science is fictitious. I now see your point.
I don't think people go into blockbuster Sci-Fi movies expecting hard scientific facts, but to completely throw basic common sense and reason out of the window for dramatic effect is normally the domain of crappy low budget slasher flicks.
I'm pretty sure it was mentioned that the crew was assembled pants down fast and that they didn't ask too many questions when they saw the amount of pay they would be getting from this mystery mission.
Karma Kramer
Banned
I wonder whether pro-lifers would agree that abortion is OK if you've been impregnated by an Alien and the birth will kill you. AND IT CAN HAPPEN TO MEN, TOO.
Here's what I wrote before on Prometheus:
Prometheus is punk science fiction. The film is agnostic with its approach towards religion. It doesn't bring into question of if there is a God necessarily, but it does question the relative means to knowing through historical artifacts what God is like if you do think he exists.
Also David not being a divine being is also significant. Christians believe that if a baby is formed in a lab, it is not divine (I believe). The abortion scene is also interesting. Maybe making the argument if the xenos are the perfect species... than aborting it without hesitation shows a lack of commitment to faith.
The reason why I think I enjoyed Prometheus is I thought its method for story telling to be interesting. Instead of these ideas being wrapped in a nice bow and presented more traditionally we get something way more sub-conscious and therefore powerful. Anything that outright denies someones beliefs will be forgotten as someones "agenda," in todays fast moving times. But the subconscious rarely forgets.
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