PROMETHEUS UNMARKED SPOILER THREAD!

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Maybe the Engineers are in some kind of eternal conflict with the Xenomorph and they worship the black goo.

The big face statue in the Temple is not a monument to Humanity but to themselves and the black goo is the source of all life. It's just simply a place of worship I guess? Oh god who knows.
 
Prometheus 2 will feature two houses of Jockeys, the Cains who want to destroy humanity and the Abels who want to save it. It will be really deep and subtle.
 
Well it's obvious that some folks have no interest at all in engaging in hypothesis and theorizing
I love engaging in that kind of stuff. But Prometheus simply isn't an intelligent / thought-provoking movie.

This really does feel like a Lost thread!
Indeed.


there's still viral marketing going out for this? What's it all suppose to mean?
Gotta sell dat Blu-ray. It's due for October 9, 2012, and the viral stuff is close enough, with its "10.11.12" (not like Sony is going to use that one for the PlayStation 4).


Is it odd that I expect Vickers to show up in the sequel?
As an actual android. Called "Elektra", as someone suggested earlier. Because we'll never get enough of daddy issues (right, Lindelof?).
 
For people that hated the film, have you put aside your angst and tried to watch it again after reading all the hypothesizing online as to what's going on? Very similar to Lost, once you accept what the product is trying to do vs. what you want it to do, it becomes a very fulfilling experience (at least it does for me).

My second viewing was immensely better than my first, and I'm seriously considering a third viewing as the theories get better.

You have to accept that this movie is religion vs. science and that religion wins. What greater twist in the sci-fi genre than to challenge science itself?!
I'm being a bit crazy with this line, but I could totally see Scott saying that in an interview or something


Eh, I don't think its necessarily religion vs science in the way you put it, but more that you have two opposing sides with followers whose noses are so close to their respective ideals, that they fail to see they are both right.

We WERE created by a god or gods, but it was through a sort of science and evolution.

Pretty fascinating stuff I think.


I love engaging in that kind of stuff. But Prometheus simply isn't an intelligent / thought-provoking movie.

At face value, I agree. However, if you notice, most of the conversations have to do with underlying themes and premises, not necessarily what the movie put in front of you. There ARE some very interesting ideas at play, that are worth talking about, even if the movie failed to expand on them.
 
Why did the engineers feel the need to develop a super advanced bioweapon to kill off the humans? 2,000 years ago we would have what kind of defense... swords and spears? Why not just warp in and nuke us? Unless they wanted to test their weapon on us I guess.
 
A very, very reasonable look at the film. As someone who liked it, some of those plot points did stand out to me as well, while others didn't bother me at all.

Even more reasonable was Drew's introductory comment on the film, which I didn't have room for in my article quote:

The moment I posted my review for "Prometheus," I knew we would have to run a second piece that asked more questions about the film and that tried to offer a deeper analysis of it.

Greg Ellwood also followed up with me, asking if we were going to do a piece about the unanswered questions. The thing is, the questions that people are talking about when they discuss this film range from the easily answered to fundamental confusion about the nature of the story being told. I don't have any special inside knowledge, but at this point, I've read enough from the people who made the film and from other people who have watched it that I have questions, I have comments, and I have observations and frustrations. All in all, I have mixed feelings about "Prometheus," and it drives me sort of crazy as a result.

Any time you watch something a second time, it's going to be a different experience, especially when it's something that arrives with the sort of expectations and hype that "Prometheus" had. I'd honestly seen as little as possible before seeing the film. After the first one or two trailers, I checked out. I haven't seen the last five or six trailers or the TV spots, so I didn't have every image in the movie already in my head by the time I walked in the door.

And make no mistake… this is a visual experience. There is a reason to recommend this movie, and that is because of the remarkable technical craft on display. The entire frame is just art, from beginning to end, with individual frames of the film representing some of the best things Ridley Scott has ever done.

When I saw "Blade Runner" for the first of four times in the summer of '82, I was 12 years old. My dad was in the next theater over seeing "Firefox." It had been a real point of contention between us, and in the end, he bought two tickets for the R-rated film, walked me in, sat me down, and then left so he could watch what he wanted to watch. And so "Blade Runner" happened to me by myself. Just me and the movie.

From the moment the first images appeared on the screen, I felt like I fell into it. I can speak at length now about how I think the text and the subtext of "Blade Runner" are both masterful, a true accomplishment of writing and editing and performance, a collision of things that were all sort of big risks, all of it somehow working together like magic. At the time, though, what mainly knocked me flat about "Blade Runner" was just looking at it. That first spinner ride over the city is one of those moments that I'll always remember with full sensory recall. I know what seat I was in, which row of the theater, and exactly how far I levitated above the seat for pretty much the entire running time.

There is some of that magic in "Prometheus." As a visual craftsman, he is pretty much as good as anyone working today if not better. We've seen a lot of big names take their shot at space travel and 3D and Ridley creates a complete atmospheric feeling for this film. He uses all of his tools to make you feel like you are in the Prometheus or in the giant Beehive Of Alien Doom. He dazzles at every opportunity, and since he's free to do whatever he wants this time, each new scene is like a brand new movie, a brand-new episode of "Let's See What Ridley Thinks Looks Amazing," and each time, it really does look amazing. And I can't deny that I've been thinking about the film almost constantly in the week since I saw it and reviewed it the first time, and that most of what I've been thinking about in that "I have an itch I need to scratch" sort of way is the visual elements of the movie.

Writing about a film twice in the same month in any depth is unusual, and in this case, this is a movie with huge ambitions. If you've read or watched any of the interviews our own Dan Fienberg did with the cast and crew of the film, it's obvious that everyone approached this very seriously, and it was treated as A Very Important Film from day one. Honestly, that might be part of the problem. "Alien" wasn't treated as A Very Important Film by Fox. Ridley Scott took it very seriously, and his cast got what he was trying and the producers were hip enough to understand that they were getting above and beyond, but the studio? The studio greenlit "'Star Wars' plus a monster movie." The film they got was not what they expected, and the reason it matters is because of what Ridley Scott brought to the table that was not part of the original conception.

This time out, we have a very different Ridley Scott, someone who is now pretty much an industry legend, a heavy hitter who felt like he got screwed out of the "Alien" franchise early on. He's often talked about how slighted he felt when he found out James Cameron would be writing and directing "Aliens," since he never even heard that there was a sequel in development. He decided to cash in some of that clout and make the sequel they stopped him from making 25 or 30 years ago. Because this is a film that represents a pretty pivotal moment for a major filmmaker, it's worth taking this second look.

We're going to drill down, really see what secrets the film holds, what themes it wrestles with, what questions it raises, and which answers it fails to find. Hopefully, you'll take this as a starting point for a larger conversation, because I'm certainly open to other reads on the material. All I can offer is my perspective on what is genuinely one of the most frustrating films I've had to review in recent memory.

ANALYSIS

"You should always, always, always write to theme."


Guillermo Del Toro said that to Scott Swan and I about something we were working on for him, and it was something he stressed both before the first draft, after the first draft, during the rewrites, and pretty much each time we started to take the material apart again. It's something I react strongly to when I see it done well in films because I think it's hard for some people. I think some people like to just tell good yarns, and themes in their work are somewhat unintentional, arising more from the way they tell the story and the choices they make within than any conscious decision to write "about" something. But some people work from theme to story, and "Prometheus" feels like a film where a few big images, a few big ideas, and a few franchise touchstones were all thrown together and then connective tissue had to be created to try to make some sense of those elements. It is not a film that feels like it fully explores any of the ideas it raises, and a few big things it introduces are almost incidental in the end.

For example, in most movies, a technical device that allows you to watch the dreams of other people would be the main plot of the film.
Here, it's something we see David use early in the movie once, and it's remarked on one other time, but it's not a shock to anyone in the film, nor is it particularly important. It exists merely so later in the movie, David can say, "By the way, I was watching your dreams. SICK BURN. FACE." It's a huge idea thrown away to very little effect.

Oh, wait, that's not true. David also uses it to talk to Weyland while he's asleep, leading to that very, very dramatic scene between Vickers and David where, having just established that David has much more pronounced-than-human strength, we see Vickers throw David up against a wall and hold him there while she questions him. If Vickers isn't an android… and the film seems to go way out of its way to say that she's not… then how does she do that? And if she is, then a lot of the other beats the film shows us involving her no longer make sense.

Self-sacrifice is a major element in the film. The movie opens and closes with self-sacrifices that are incredibly important. In the beginning of the film, it is a ritual, an act that seeds a planet with change, bringing forth new life, a new world. In the end of the film, it is an act of desperate heroism, an act that saves a planet from destruction, stranding the Engineers and their weapons. Only… that's sort of not true. But we'll get to that.

Why sacrifice? Why, specifically, self-sacrifice?

I saw a movie at the Cannes Film Festival this year called "Reality," a film by Matteo Garrone that is very, very, very Italian and very, very, very Roman Catholic. The film is awash in religious symbolism and the second half of the movie could be viewed as a head-first attack on the notion of living a life of good only because you think someone's watching you and taking notes. It is a movie that is almost wholly consumed with ideas of faith and Catholic dogma, and yet it is not nearly as consumed with the overt use of Catholic imagery as "Prometheus" is. It may be named after a Greek myth, but this film has got religion on its mind, and in the most literal, lunk-headed way possible.

Another of the films I saw this year at Cannes was Bertolucci's "You and Me," and like Francis Ford Coppola's most recent films, there's something about it that strikes me as Bertolucci almost re-learning his craft from scratch. There's a film student quality to their work that is very interesting and unexpected, given the scale of films they've produced in the past. These guys have marshaled the resources to make films like "Apocalypse Now" and "The Last Emperor," but their newest movies feel like they're just figuring out how to block even the most rudimentary of dialogue scenes. Ridley Scott may have the technical craft polished to an almost absurdly accomplished level, but the script itself feels like the stoned-at-3:00 AM musings of a first-year philosophy student. It is deep in the most shallow of ways, asking some of the biggest questions of our existence with a puppyish enthusiasm and without even the vaguest hint of an answer.

It's easy to draw comparisons between this film and "2001: A Space Odyssey," and Scott seems to be inviting those comparisons with his first image here, an almost-direct quotation of Kubrick's movie. The difference is that Kubrick didn't graft the Hollywood structure onto his examination of the moments where life has taken a quantum jump forward in complexity and sophistication. He had enough faith in the strength of what he was doing that he told a very unconventional version of a narrative. But anything he raised as a question in that movie, he answered. If you think "2001" is in any way "vague," you need to see it again. That is a movie where every piece of information you need from it is contained within. Although I enjoy "2010" as a piece of mainstream science-fiction, it is very much the dumb cousin of the first film. It spells things out, or tries to, in a way that is almost insulting after how carefully constructed "2001" is to reveal it secrets to a patient and inquisitive audience. Unfortunately, "Prometheus" is far more "2010" than "2001."

"Prometheus" suggests to me that Ridley Scott, Jon Spaihts, and Damon Lindelof all must have had some very interesting conversations and some very heady goals when they sat down to start work on this movie. I appreciate the ambition. I think the most basic conceptual mistake they made was attaching this in any way to "Alien." I think the idea that the film is structured like a mystery, slow to yield any real information, is also a problem. It is a largely passive experience for the characters, and as a result, it is the sort of film where it feels like we're watching something happen at a remove. Because there are things that have to happen to underline the points of The Big Message, characters act in ways that no human being would, functioning more in service of the action than having the action result from the expression of character. If none of that matters to you, then "Prometheus" might well be a great experience for you, but when I don't recognize basic human responses, then drama doesn't work for me. It's that basic
 
Why did the aliens feel the need to develop a super advanced bioweapon to kill off the humans? 2,000 years ago we would have what kind of defense... swords and spears? Why not just warp in and nuke us? Unless they wanted to test their weapon on us I guess.

Who said they developed it for us? We're basically them. They'd probably made the weapon fighting each other at some point; They just decided to use it on us to wipe us out.
 
Freakinchair said:
Nobody in any of the aliens movies did anything nearly as stupid as all of the characters in this film.
In Resurrection they went through a huge project of reviving someone from the dead to get a queen and breed xenomorphs... then they kept them in cages that weren't acid-proof.
 
Who said they developed it for us? We're basically them. They'd probably made the weapon fighting each other at some point; They just decided to use it on us to wipe us out.

Oh ok for some reason I thought they made it to destroy us, which seemed like total overkill.
 
At face value, I agree. However, if you notice, most of the conversations have to do with underlying themes and premises, not necessarily what the movie put in front of you. There ARE some very interesting ideas at play, that are worth talking about, even if the movie failed to expand on them.

I think that's the best way to put it. Well said.
 
RubxQub said:
What greater twist in the sci-fi genre than to challenge science itself?!
That'd be find if the movie's premise was... er a bit scientific in the first place. I have no idea why people call this hard sci-fi, the timeline and some basic premises are the dumbest part of the movie.

Unfortunately, "Prometheus" is far more "2010" than "2001."
On second thought - that sums up what I tried to say in above sentence far better. :P
 
Has anyone ever commented on the size of Engineers? From Alien, and my memory could be playing tricks on me - but I've always imagined their relative size to be at least 2x taller than human. Talking of course about that scene from Alien where they climb towards the chair where you see one of them sitting, with chest bursted.
 
I think that's the best way to put it. Well said.

That is true. And it makes me wonder what they cut out of this for the theatrical cut. Kingdom of Heaven: DC is well loved here on GAF, and rightfully so. The theatrical version is a disaster. Entire plot points are cut, and characters have no reason to behave in ways that they do. Yet when entire sections of plot were left in the DC, it made much more sense and became a great movie. I'm wondering if the DC will be the same. Or, if if the sequel to this will serve to answer a lot of the huge questions that were brought up but not answered.

Everyone giving Lindelof shit for this has to remember as the article above stated, Scott had complete veto power over anything in the movie and Spaihts and Lindelof were writing what Scott told them to. So everything in the movie is there because Scott wanted it that way.
 
Why did the engineers feel the need to develop a super advanced bioweapon to kill off the humans? 2,000 years ago we would have what kind of defense... swords and spears? Why not just warp in and nuke us? Unless they wanted to test their weapon on us I guess.
It was their version of "nuking them from orbit". They wanted to be sure they got us.
 
My guess is that if it isn't the Space Jesus theory, (which it probably is, especially if it was scripted by the same writer of LOST) then still remaining with the similar theme of the myth Prometheus, maybe there was a single engineer that went behind the rest of their backs and created human life without him getting the okay. Similar to how Prometheus gave the humans fire, the gods got pissed off. So now that the Engineers realized what was created, they then decided that they needed to destroy it by weaponizing the black goo. But then something went wrong in the process and they wiped themselves out, with only one being able to get to a cryo-chamber for safety.

But then that would explain the cave painting that were a road map to their location.


With the movie taking place on Christmas and then find out that some bad shit went down 2000 years ago......Yep, the killing of Space Jesus set all this shit off. facepalm*
 
Has anyone ever commented on the size of Engineers? From Alien, and my memory could be playing tricks on me - but I've always imagined their relative size to be at least 2x taller than human. Talking of course about that scene from Alien where they climb towards the chair where you see one of them sitting, with chest bursted.

Oh yeah, definitely. Alien has the space jockey a lot bigger than what we see in the Prometheus from what I can tell.
 

Why does the Engineer go after Shaw? Why not just go to one of the other ships and escape?

OUR TAKE: An excellent question. First, it makes no sense at all that the Engineer finds Shaw with such speed and precision, and it makes no sense at all that David somehow knows what the Engineer is doing since he's just a head laying on a floor in a room. But the notion that he's got to kill Shaw simply doesn't track. He took off. He got in his ship and he tried to fly away, and then the Prometheus crashed into him. Why he would immediately react by going after Shaw isn't explained at all, and the later reveal by David that there are many other ships is infuriating. If that's true, are there also other Engineers asleep? If that's true, why didn't they go to Earth to finish the mission that this one ship bungled?

yeah, wait, how did he Engineer breathe running to Vickers' life box without a suit? maybe I'm missing something but I thought the oxygen in the ship implied they needed oxygen too.
 
Oh yeah, definitely. Alien has the space jockey a lot bigger than what we see in the Prometheus from what I can tell.

In the movie, the engineer appeared to be about 9 feet tall. And their "spacesuit" that you actually see in Alien and appears to be their breathing apparatus seems to add a great deal of size to them, which makes them appear to be between 10-12 feet tall. It made sense to me.

Has anyone brought up the idea of the "nephilim" referenced in the OT as potentially being these Engineers visiting us?
 
yeah, wait, how did he Engineer breathe running to Vickers' life box without a suit? maybe I'm missing something but I thought the oxygen in the ship implied they needed oxygen too.

That actually stuck out to me as well. He should have shown up with the mask on.
 
At face value, I agree. However, if you notice, most of the conversations have to do with underlying themes and premises, not necessarily what the movie put in front of you. There ARE some very interesting ideas at play, that are worth talking about, even if the movie failed to expand on them.
Can't say I agree. I'm not sure what "underlying themes and premises" you're referring to, for one thing, as the movie is far from subtle.
As for the speculation, this post by border sums up my feelings on the subject pretty well.
I still find it somewhat interesting to see people's opinions and reactions, to read some interviews here and there, but really...


Even more reasonable was Drew's introductory comment on the film, which I didn't have room for in my article quote:
Thanks for that. Reminds me of why Moriarty's reviews pretty much were the only ones I'd read over at AICN.
 
At face value, I agree. However, if you notice, most of the conversations have to do with underlying themes and premises, not necessarily what the movie put in front of you. There ARE some very interesting ideas at play, that are worth talking about, even if the movie failed to expand on them.

It seems to me like most of the conversations are trying to tease out the coherence of an arbitrary mythology behind the movie, which is very different from "discussing the underlying themes".
 
Ok, random question on this Jesus theory... LMAO, this should be fun.

The engineers were extremely pale, Jesus was considerably more bronze... LOL So, yeah?

although, it wouldn't shock me that brown engineer gets killed first. lmao
 
Ok, random question on this Jesus theory... LMAO, this should be fun.

The engineers were extremely pale, Jesus was considerably more bronze... LOL So, yeah?

although, it wouldn't shock me that brown engineer gets killed first. lmao

How do you know? The only thing anyone "knows" about Jesus is what is told to them.
 
In the movie, the engineer appeared to be about 9 feet tall. And their "spacesuit" that you actually see in Alien and appears to be their breathing apparatus seems to add a great deal of size to them, which makes them appear to be between 10-12 feet tall. It made sense to me.

Has anyone brought up the idea of the "nephilim" referenced in the OT as potentially being these Engineers visiting us?

Aren't nephilim referenced in the christian bible as well? Some sort of super humans that lived or visited us here looooong ago?

Diablo 3 spoiler below:

Diablo 3 alludes to it as well in regards to the player's character
 
There is no physical description of Jesus in the Bible. Though sure, you'd think someone would have mentioned him being an eight-foot-tall alabaster behemoth.
 
Ok, random question on this Jesus theory... LMAO, this should be fun.

The engineers were extremely pale, Jesus was considerably more bronze... LOL So, yeah?

although, it wouldn't shock me that brown engineer gets killed first. lmao

Or maybe the people who created the myth made some things up, wouldn't be the first time.
 
That actually stuck out to me as well. He should have shown up with the mask on.

In the beginning of the movie the one girl that is reading the atmosphere levels says that someone would only last 10 minutes or something like that. So i guess someone could survive, at least for a little bit without an oxygen device.
 
Aren't nephilim referenced in the christian bible as well? Some sort of super humans that lived or visited us here looooong ago?
Diablo 3 spoiler below:

Diablo 3 alludes to it as well in regards to the player's character

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. They aren't really described, but they're thought to have been giants, and they inter-bred with humans. Some people think they were angels or aliens.

The thing that I'm wondering about is that if Jesus is shown as being the engineer that was sent to earth and was crucified (arms straight out to the side) does the Queen or the xenomorph in the tomb with the arms straight out to the side have a significance? Is that their nemesis/Satan?

No. I believe the first time you see him is when he forces the airlock open right after David warns her that he's coming. No mask.

This is true. But there's no indication in the film that the engineers weren't able to breathe the air of the planet they were on. The breathing apparatus seemed to be more for deep space travel, to me.
 
I really want to know what the deal is with the White vs. Black symbolism (if any) this movie presents.

Engineers = White
Squid-Hugger = White
Worm-Mutant = White
Xenomorph Baby = Black
Goo = Black

...there has to be something intentional there. Why the Xenomorph that came out of the Engineer at the end is black has some significance I think.
 
No. I believe the first time you see him is when he forces the airlock open right after David warns her that he's coming. No mask.

Someone mentiones they saw him get out of the crash right as Shaw was going into the pod. Doesn't really matter though as bigger organism, bigger lungs. Not to mention longer gait so he just ran it out I guess.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if the Engineers were the Nephilim from the bible.

Wait, I got it. Goliath was an Engineer, David killed him with a rock, the Engineers got pissed, bam, they wanted to wipe us out, but they give us one last chance.

They try one last attempt to correct the errors of our ways, we nail him to a cross.

They bust out the nuclear option, but wipe themselves out instead.
 
You may want to read again, lol.

Feel free to shoot me the verse that describes Jesus when he was alive (i.e. when he would have been an Engineer and I can't believe I just wrote that sentence). I am not a scholar but do not recall any readings in Catholic church about his description, have always heard that there is no description of him in "what did Jesus look like" shows/articles/etc., and can find no sources in a search right now. Am always interested in being corrected when I am mistaken though.
 
Has anyone ever commented on the size of Engineers? From Alien, and my memory could be playing tricks on me - but I've always imagined their relative size to be at least 2x taller than human. Talking of course about that scene from Alien where they climb towards the chair where you see one of them sitting, with chest bursted.

In Alien, the wide shots were filmed with Kids to make the SJ look enormous. However the close in shots where they're inspecting its chest being burst are the real cast. In the close in shots the helmet looks about the same size as the severed one in Prometheus. So they have retconned the wide angle shots a bit imo. (They didn't even match up in Alien)
 
I saw this movie on Saturday

Very disappointed. It had some good visual moments but overall I'd rate the whole thing as simply mediocre at best... if not outright poor.

Some of my biggest problems in no particular order: Guy Pierce in shitty makeup as Weyland, the living Engineer being extraordinarily aggressive and violent, that same engineer running to kill Shaw instead of just taking one of the other ships, Fifield and the Biologist dude being idiots with the alien worm, Fifield coming back to life as a zombie (what?), everyone - especially David - completely ignoring the fact that Shaw cut the alien out of herself and ran into the room naked and bloody, Vickors proclaiming to be Weyland's daughter like that has ANY significance what-so-ever... I could go on and on, more than my fair share of eye rolling moments with this movie.
 
Feel free to shoot me the verse that describes Jesus when he was alive (i.e. when he would have been an Engineer and I can't believe I just wrote that sentence). I am not a scholar but do not recall any readings in Catholic church about his description, have always heard that there is no description of him in "what did Jesus look like" shows/articles/etc., and can find no sources in a search right now. Am always interested in being corrected when I am mistaken though.


There's no way that even in the world of Prometheus, Jesus LOOKED like an engineer. Judas having to kiss him as an identifier for the guards, proves this.
 
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