Zoe
Member
RedNumberFive said:Understood, but I have no doubt that future games will require updated firmware, resulting in a loss of functionality.
But then wouldn't the onus be on the maker of the game, not the system?
RedNumberFive said:Understood, but I have no doubt that future games will require updated firmware, resulting in a loss of functionality.
Clear said:I suspect that Sony's defence against the "no longer fit for purpose" argument will be that access to PSN is not a right, and that they are offering users a clear choice between that functionality and the ability to install OtherOS.
I think its already been proven that they can simply withdraw access rights to the PSN network and all features relating to that service at their discretion. That being the case, the need to install the FW update is mandatory only in the sense of how it relates to PSN access.
It seems like that you've missed the point that you won't to able to play futureClear said:... I think its already been proven that they can simply withdraw access rights to the PSN network and all features relating to that service at their discretion. That being the case, the need to install the FW update is mandatory only in the sense of how it relates to PSN access. ...
Giga bit is different than Giga Byte...dogmaan said:Everytime I hear this i shake my head
The PS2 GPU has lots of bandwidth roughly 48 Gbits, thats 24 Gbit each way or :
19 Gbit frame buffer + 5 gbit texture buffer -> write
19 Gbit frame buffer + 5 gbit texture buffer <- read
Although i can't remember if the above is a 50/50 split read/write, it may of been 60/40
I think it also has about 1GB/s of bandwidth to access the main RDRAM.
The RSX has:
22.4 GB/s read and write bandwidth to GDDR (or 20.8)
and
20 GB/s read to the Cell and XDR memory
15 GB/s write to the Cell and XDR memory
Conveniently that adds up to about 47-48 Gbits in 2 discrete pools, that give you roughly the same bandwith as the PS2
Atilac said:Giga bit is different than Giga Byte...
Rapstah said:Odd, when I arrived at home today to install this update it was already installed. I'm sure no one's turned on the PS3 for three days...
missile said:It seems like that you've missed the point that you won't to able to play future games that needs a fw 3.21+. So it does not only related to the PSN.
Technically that might not be the case. Each 'future game' may in fact be expanded functionality. That is, the list of games it can play normally grows, and if you refuse to install the firmware it stops growing, but does not shrink.RedNumberFive said:Understood, but I have no doubt that future games will require updated firmware, resulting in a loss of functionality.
Clear said:I think its already been proven that they can simply withdraw access rights to the PSN network and all features relating to that service at their discretion.
jorma said:When was this proven and how?
I really hope this is not true at all.
http://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2009/10/online_game_net.htmjorma said:When was this proven and how?
I really hope this is not true at all.
Sony's Network is not similar to a company town. The Network does not serve a substantial portion of a municipality's functions, but rather serves solely as a forum for people to interact subject to specific contractual terms. Every regulation Sony applies in the Network is confined in scope only to those entertainment services that Sony provides.
Slavik81 said:if you refuse to install the firmware it stops growing, but does not shrink.
The game wouldn't actually know it requires an update without PSN.ChronicleX said:Wrong. Lets say you own 3 games and all 3 games work that is a 3/3 = 100% works. Now throw in a game that requires an update that you own and suddenly your working games have shrunk by 25%.
Taking away otherOS is 1 thing, Sony can attempt to argue that it is the customers choice to not install it and it is their choice to not allow people on PSN without said firmware. However if a customer owns a game and they must install this update in order to play it then the choice argument is void. MAG is a good example of this.
Rapstah said:The game wouldn't actually know it requires an update without PSN.
I thought you were talking about game updates.ChronicleX said:yes it would if the update is on the disk. Don't be a moron.
Okay; say you want to play an online only game. You cannot play it and have OtherOS now.Rapstah said:I thought you were talking about game updates.
I'm very sure he was talking about a firmware update, which some games require to be on the most recent or a fairly recent one.Rapstah said:I thought you were talking about game updates.
Clear said:Yeah I was referring to the Estavillo suit that got thrown out last September.
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=25495
Dynoro said:Okay; say you want to play an online only game. You cannot play it and have OtherOS now.
Interesting read. But in this case i assume there is an underlying violation of the TOS? So it's not really at their discretion in this case. I'm thinking more of reasons like "i dont like the look of your face" or "Trettons niece wants your PSN username, so we're booting you off" or "We dont like what you wrote about Uncharted 2 on GAF so we are kicking you out"
That's what "at their discretion" means to me =)
missile said:Factor in that one gets a PS3 as well (and not only a PC), meaning, playing games,
watching BDs and so on.
AndyD said:At their discretion means they can turn off the PSN tomorrow and tough cookies for everyone.
I would be surprised that in the case of MAG (for example) that Sony could justify preventing access to a game that is still being sold full price in stores and is first party (I believe). I cannot see how they can force this firmware update on people where it disables a purchasing feature of the system (OtherOS).AndyD said:But that is covered by the EULA which states online game service may be discontinued at any time. Its in the game's EULA and also the PSN EULA.
I think the point of stops growing but does not shrink applies still.
AndyD said:But that is covered by the EULA which states online game service may be discontinued at any time. Its in the game's EULA and also the PSN EULA.
I think the point of stops growing but does not shrink applies still.
At their discretion means they can turn off the PSN tomorrow and tough cookies for everyone.
AndyD said:At their discretion means they can turn off the PSN tomorrow and tough cookies for everyone.
railGUN said:Legality aside, I'm just as done with Sony as much as I can be. I'm not going to say I'll never buy another Sony product, but I'm not supporting this company like I once did. I don't, and never did use Linux on my PS3 but thats not the point. I can't stand big corporations nuking my system from space because they didn't have the foresight to see that the OtherOS option might open unwanted doors.
I'm really sad that everyone isn't completely outraged by this, regardless of whether you use the OtherOS feature or not. You don't even need shitty metaphors to describe what Sony is doing. They are fucking their customers plain and simple.
railGUN said:Legality aside, I'm just as done with Sony as much as I can be. I'm not going to say I'll never buy another Sony product, but I'm not supporting this company like I once did. I don't, and never did use Linux on my PS3 but thats not the point. I can't stand big corporations nuking my system from space because they didn't have the foresight to see that the OtherOS option might open unwanted doors.
I'm really sad that everyone isn't completely outraged by this, regardless of whether you use the OtherOS feature or not. You don't even need shitty metaphors to describe what Sony is doing. They are fucking their customers plain and simple.
I still remember cursing sony for not implementing in game XMB and having to quit out of a game to read a message :lolbeast786 said:Were they also fucking us over when they improved bunch of stuff via firmware for free. Or if you take one away and we then forget of all the improvement PS3/PSN got since launch for free.
Sarye said:Sorry but that's stupid. One of Sony's biggest selling point is free online. I fail to see how just because it's in the EULA makes that statement okay.
I would be surprised that in the case of MAG (for example) that Sony could justify preventing access to a game that is still being sold full price in stores and is first party (I believe). I cannot see how they can force this firmware update on people where it disables a purchasing feature of the system (OtherOS).
The consumer should not be forced to choose which of the pre-firmware 3.2.1 features they get to keep.
beast786 said:Were they also fucking us over when they improved bunch of stuff via firmware for free. Or if you take one away and we then forget of all the improvement PS3/PSN got since launch for free.
beast786 said:Were they also fucking us over when they improved bunch of stuff via firmware for free. Or if you take one away and we then forget of all the improvement PS3/PSN got since launch for free.
bigdaddygamebot said:Anyone else as filled with anxiety as I am about updating their PS3 on April Fool's Day?
railGUN said:I'm sure Sony improves things with firmware updates because they love me. Not because they are competing in the video game console business with a couple other multi-billion dollar companies.
The "not being able to use my PS3 for a day because of the nice leap year firmware glitch" was an excellent feature that re-connected me with nature for a day. Thanks Sony.
patsu said:The press should go ask Sony for more details like now... since the patch is out. They have to tell Sony that people are not happy with the silence.
railGUN said:Legality aside, I'm just as done with Sony as much as I can be. I'm not going to say I'll never buy another Sony product, but I'm not supporting this company like I once did. I don't, and never did use Linux on my PS3 but thats not the point. I can't stand big corporations nuking my system from space because they didn't have the foresight to see that the OtherOS option might open unwanted doors.
I'm really sad that everyone isn't completely outraged by this, regardless of whether you use the OtherOS feature or not. You don't even need shitty metaphors to describe what Sony is doing. They are fucking their customers plain and simple.
patsu said:To be frank, it felt like killing a unicorn.
The press should go ask Sony for more details like now... since the patch is out. They have to tell Sony that people are not happy with the silence.
RedNumberFive said:The gaming press will do no such thing. As long as they can regurgitate press releases and keep the companies that give them games and freebies happy, this will never happen.
AndyD said:Servers for games get shutdown all the time once they are out and old. People complain but they have no recourse, because EULAs protect the companies.
railGUN said:I'm sure Sony improves things with firmware updates because they love me. Not because they are competing in the video game console business with a couple other multi-billion dollar companies.
The "not being able to use my PS3 for a day because of the nice leap year firmware glitch" was an excellent feature that re-connected me with nature for a day. Thanks Sony.
Clear said:I honestly doubt Geohot's exploits have anything to do with removing OtherOS, its just a convenient pretext for globally removing the functionality as they can now turn around and say "we did it for security reasons".
Like I said awhile back, when the feature was cut from the slim SKU's last year the writing was on the wall. Its probably just a cost-saving measure (no longer maintaining the OtherOS hypervisor) or to eke out a bit more memory for XMB.
Personally I'm kind of on-the-fence about it all. No doubt what Sony is doing is deplorable, but I can see their logic in discontinuing a feature that is enjoyed by only a small percent of the userbase, especially if it frees up resources to be expended elsewhere.
patsu said:Ha ha... don't be mad at them. Let's see.
Sarye said:I don't really care about Linux but it sets a precedent. I don't want SONY to decide down the road to remove BC via a software update because they plan on selling these games on the PSN and holding my multiplayer games hostage essentially forcing me to do it.
'The final blow'? Honestly, what happened here is almost certainly that some know-nothing higher-up suit saw geohot's blog, freaked out, and told the firmware team to remove OtherOS without even investigating whether things were truly secure or not.lupinko said:Yup, really geohot's adventures were just a convenient excuse for them to drop the final blow to OtherOS.
beast786 said:It doesnt matter if they love you or hate you. The fact it when they provided improvement I am sure you enjoyed it. Yet one loss and now they are the worst company ever and boycott the company.
Please keep in mind, I am not defending taking otherOS out. All I am saying is put things perspective.
As per the day where you couldnt use PS3 for one day. Seriously, that bothered you that much :lol . My internet went down yesterday, My electricity went down for few hourse last month. Shit happens. :lol