Mobilemofo
Member
Great fuckin use of that gif man.
Let's wait for proper hands-on. I would love for this to be true don't get me wrong. FSR is hot shit.
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PS5 Pro/PSSR Appears to Provide Better Image Reconstruction than DLSS Running on a 4090 GPU
So Nvidia who IS powering the data centres of the world and who's deep learning knowledge through their engineers, software and tech, who kicked off the whole AI upscale boom and who have been solely about graphics since their inception have somehow been upstaged by hitherto unseen, untested and atm unknown by the public on a technical level AMD magic sauce for Sony.
Give your head a shake. And Nvidia and their technology, software and engineers are powering the AI revolution you muppet, what algorithms and deep learning models don't use tensor? You know as much about how PSSR works and performs as Kermit the frog and everyone else here on the forum, including me. Nada. But we do know Nvidia are out there with proven tech we can test and see now and what they've been updating and advancing for several years.
Will PSSR be better than DLSS, we don't know but it's highly unlikely due to the time lead of DLSS with powerful help from the tensor cores and several years of their engineers improving the tech.
Motion flow and checkerboard knowledge and some wizard engineers will help but you seriously think they will usurp a technology that's several iterations deep and has the most powerful AI upscale technologies behind it. Lol.
I have a PS5 and will be buying a Pro, I also have a 4090, I love games and hope PSSR is fantastic but I also don't go for childish warring. PSSR will not beat DLSS on all the evidence available, to you and me.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
NVIDIA is a lot more than DLSS. DLSS has been worked on by a team of like 4 engineers. It's far from the greatest thing in NVIDIA's portfolio. Furthermore, what makes DLSS stand out is the model, nothing else, really.
Also, NVIDIA is no longer a graphics company as Jensen duly noted a while ago. They're an AI company now. DLSS is small crumbs.
VictorVectors
Member
Nvidia, the world’s dominant force in hardware AI is outdone by Sony?
…not a snowball chance
…not a snowball chance
Who the fuck said otherwise. I've known about nVidia since their Saturn board for the PC, I certainly know they're a lot more than just DLSS. You somehow think the latest AI boom they are focusing on means their several years of giving DLSS a huge priority is now moot?
DLSS is good now, very good, just because Jensen now sees the datacentre dollar more than the consumer graphics one doesn't mean they'll drop DLSS advancement like a hot potato.
Anyway, I'm no Jensen or Nvidia shill, I just don't think PSSR will be a better technology than DLSS with the knowledge we have atm. We'll see but it's unlikely and if so, it will probably be brief. Graphics hating Jensen will spare some datacentre pennies and keep improving it.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
I think PSSR might be comparable. The problem with DLSS is that it effectively has no direct competitor besides XeSS, which is almost as good but practically irrelevant since Intel's market share in the discrete GPU market might as well be 0%. FSR isn't ML-based, so no comparison there either. PSSR is the first real "competitor" that will actually be ubiquitous. I do put the word between quotation marks because it won't actually compete directly with DLSS.
Not saying they'll drop DLSS either, they won't. I'm simply saying that what they put into DLSS is pocket change and not enough to make it an untouchable tech.
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Source?
Edit* It doesn't matter, I'm not invested enough to read it. Nvidia pocket change is probably more than some other companies entire budget, if indeed DLSS is so low on Nvidia's list they do indeed only invest so called pocket change (I don't agree). But as laymen we don't have access to their DLSS budget, unless that source you have shows otherwise.
I digress though, I don't care enough to read an Nvidia department budget breakdown.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Doesn't make much sense to begin with because the 4090's DLSS isn't any better than that of other cards. It only allows you to upscale from a higher base resolution while losing less performance.
GoldenEye98
posts news as their odd job
So better...
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Well, no, because we're comparing the IQ. Whether the game runs at 40 or 90fps won't change it.
proandrad
Member
It’s absolutely insane, how dudes that are so hardcore in gaming that they spend time posting on a gaming forum, don’t understand that a 4090 doesn’t provide better IQ than a 3050. It only provides better framerates.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Do you see much of a difference here, because I surely don't. Granted HFW isn't using PSSR here, but still applicable.
To quote myself here-
Is this 4090 talk aimed at me. Because I mentioned I have both an Nvidia card and a PS5. And I'm considering a PRO. Are you fucking idiots for real? I in no way implied anything to do with PSSR or DLSS with my 4090 mention, or their quality, it was simply a point of "I have no horse in the race of which is subjectively better as I own and enjoy both companies products"
How does that equal some imaginary comment on a 4090's effect on image quality and DLSS. I know the forum has seen a huge shift to none native speakers in the past several years but surely they don't read a sentence and extrapolate something not said or implied.
DLSS will most likely be better than PSSR. 4090 not required and never claimed to be. Just an RTX card. Ok.
And I'll get a PRO for GT7 and the games that will take advantage of the hardware 12-18 months before PC release. Both a high end PC and the console that provides the best way to play timed/exclusive games. Is that unheard of in some places on this earth.
Weird.
Is this 4090 talk aimed at me. Because I mentioned I have both an Nvidia card and a PS5. And I'm considering a PRO. Are you fucking idiots for real? I in no way implied anything to do with PSSR or DLSS with my 4090 mention, or their quality, it was simply a point of "I have no horse in the race of which is subjectively better as I own and enjoy both companies products"
How does that equal some imaginary comment on a 4090's effect on image quality and DLSS. I know the forum has seen a huge shift to none native speakers in the past several years but surely they don't read a sentence and extrapolate something not said or implied.
DLSS will most likely be better than PSSR. 4090 not required and never claimed to be. Just an RTX card. Ok.
And I'll get a PRO for GT7 and the games that will take advantage of the hardware 12-18 months before PC release. Both a high end PC and the console that provides the best way to play timed/exclusive games. Is that unheard of in some places on this earth.
Weird.
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Senua
Gold Member
Well you could use DLAA on the 4090 for those titles. But really you don't need a 4090 to get the best out of those titles. It's mostly third party stuff that really pushes PC hardware
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Here, there is a clear difference.
DLSS is better here. The lines on the floor around the feet of the Goon-4-Less soldier are just gone on the Pro, but this could be due to the much higher AF on PC (4x on PS5). Otherwise, DLSS is simply way better at reconstructing details. Ratchet's body is much more defined, the strands of fur on his tail are more visible, and everything just looks cleaner and higher res with DLSS. I honestly thought this was DLAA, but given the context of the video, it's more likely DLSS Quality.
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//DEVIL//
Member
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Here, there is a clear difference.
DLSS is better here. The lines on the floor around the feet of the Goon-4-Less soldier are just gone on the Pro, but this could be due to the much higher AF on PC (4x on PS5). Otherwise, DLSS is simply way better at reconstructing details. Ratchet's body is much more defined, the strands of fur on his tail are more visible, and everything just looks cleaner and higher res with DLSS. I honestly thought this was DLAA, but given the context of the video, it's more likely DLSS Quality.
Well sure but I specifically called out horizon because OP came off as if 4090 and PS5 Pro visuals could never be comparable in any circumstance.
Codeblew
Member
One thing that doesn't look better on the DLSS shot are the jaggies on the ring under your bottom left circle. Maybe that is a result of the pro shot being less sharp. Just an observation.Here, there is a clear difference.
DLSS is better here. The lines on the floor around the feet of the Goon-4-Less soldier are just gone on the Pro, but this could be due to the much higher AF on PC (4x on PS5). Otherwise, DLSS is simply way better at reconstructing details. Ratchet's body is much more defined, the strands of fur on his tail are more visible, and everything just looks cleaner and higher res with DLSS. I honestly thought this was DLAA, but given the context of the video, it's more likely DLSS Quality.
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YeulEmeralda
Linux User
I was checking out the Pathfinder WOTR mod scene this afternoon.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
They don’t care.The 4090 fan boys are not happy right now.
PaintTinJr
Member
Just like in the other video that Oliver did to compare, the two images aren't in any way equal or cropped the same.Here, there is a clear difference.
DLSS is better here. The lines on the floor around the feet of the Goon-4-Less soldier are just gone on the Pro, but this could be due to the much higher AF on PC (4x on PS5). Otherwise, DLSS is simply way better at reconstructing details. Ratchet's body is much more defined, the strands of fur on his tail are more visible, and everything just looks cleaner and higher res with DLSS. I honestly thought this was DLAA, but given the context of the video, it's more likely DLSS Quality.
The pro image has a bigger FOV, draw distance, and depth cuing as the long double steps with a split in the top right of each image are correctly cued enough on the Pro image that the dark gap between them is tonally similar to the cueing of the step at that distance. The Pro image is also again had most of its full detail foreground cropped in the bottom of the image, versus the DLSS image that had background cropped at the top to alight the images.
So if PSSR is a close match or bests DLSS in areas at this unfairly framed comparison, it is providing superior image quality, already.
I'd also say that the visualization of PSSR at 33:30 in the recent state of play definitely looks to be doing what the patent we looked at described, meaning if DF are pixel counting, then it is the cheaper non-AI inference hole filing they are counting at those resolution numbers.
daninthemix
Member
Damn it, I came into this thread and got Sony fanboi ejaculate all over my shoes.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Changes nothing. The DLSS image is still a lot better.
Codeblew
Member
Did you read the title before you *came* in the thread?
Crispy Gamer
Member
Pro footage look blurry I don't think it's a good captureHere, there is a clear difference.
DLSS is better here. The lines on the floor around the feet of the Goon-4-Less soldier are just gone on the Pro, but this could be due to the much higher AF on PC (4x on PS5). Otherwise, DLSS is simply way better at reconstructing details. Ratchet's body is much more defined, the strands of fur on his tail are more visible, and everything just looks cleaner and higher res with DLSS. I honestly thought this was DLAA, but given the context of the video, it's more likely DLSS Quality.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Apparently you're loving every bit of it considering you keep coming back. See you tomorrow.
PaintTinJr
Member
How ? when you are comparing minified pixels against full size foreground pixels. It obvious you don't understand how aliasing gets worse at different orientations and projected positions within the frustum if you think that still makes the DLSS image better.
And if the latter part is true, then spectrally chosen pixels are being rendered at native
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Possibly, but based on this clip at least, DLSS is a cut above. It's specifically here, however. In other games, PSSR seemed really good.
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Crispy Gamer
Member
Same video and yeah it's the motion blur we should just wait before making definitive statement.
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Crispy Gamer
Member
It's definitely the capture I paused at the exact same time and got different results...look I don't expect it to be better than a 4090 using dlss or better than the latest version of dlss but we can at least get a better comparison this one is flawed because in motion on my TV they look very comparable.
PaintTinJr
Member
At what exact same time precision? you'd have to try streaming the link through something like VideoLAN to be able to granularly frame step through a video to get the exact same frame - and resulting image.
Ironman_Bad
Member
The 700$ machine was designed to run games the 2500 pc was designed to do multiple tasks mainly through brute force the 700$ optimized box very well could run some games better especially games ported from box to pc
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Crispy Gamer
Member
Ign did the comparison I just paused it at 23:04 they definitely didn't sync it properly
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
This ain't happening.
CityHunter1981
Member
Not yet, but I think it might be better than DLSS in the future.
Sony are wizards when it comes to upscaling. Their TVs are still number one when it comes to upscaling content to 4K. So I am sure they have the know how to beat DLSS in the future.
Sony are wizards when it comes to upscaling. Their TVs are still number one when it comes to upscaling content to 4K. So I am sure they have the know how to beat DLSS in the future.
PaintTinJr
Member
And yet, even if we believe the framing of DLSS quality being a small tad better than PSSR - it isn't but whatever - you can see in the comparison that the visual makeup of the Pro's image from R&C is superior to the PC port, because it has been enhanced at a development level above and beyond the PS5 ported effort to the PC, so how are we not already seeing that in R&C at least where the Pro version is the definitive version?
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Last I checked, there weren't RT shadows, 16x AF, higher resolution reflections, and RTAO in the Pro version. Not to mention that the poster I was replying to said the game would run "better" on the PS5 Pro aka provide better performance, but we both know this isn't happening, right?
Vick
Gold Member
Unless used to showcase the better shadows or increased crowd featured in the maxed out PC version, when it comes to IQ that whole comparison is utterly useless.
Destin clearly said IGN didn't have access to ProRes footage, so that comparison posted multiple times represent nothing more than a 4090 raw capture vs Pro encoded video file, all re-encoded again by YouTube.
The fact that the PS5 Pro footage in there looks worse than the raw Performance RT mode on a regular PS5 should be telling enough to disregard it entirely, let alone make serious comparisons or conduct improvised image reconstruction analysis from it.
PaintTinJr
Member
Run better than the Pro target frame-rate of 60fps, 120fps would be pointless and just increase frame pacing issues from being unlocked so that would be a tie in most cases.
As for AF, that's completely redundant to ML AI inference, what benefit does it bring other than improve inferencing when the DLSS image contains zero native rendered pixels, and the AF of the smaller native are invalidated by the inferenced pixels?
As for RT features why do we think they aren't in the Pro version? Is there a specific screenshot comparison showing them all missing on the Pro?
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Another predictably dishonest take from you. Now 120fps and 60fps is a tie because of bullshit reasons you made up. AF doesn't matter, and the fact that we don't see those features doesn't mean they're not here. Yep, typical post from you. I won't even bother answering you anymore.
But now...
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bender
What time is it?
Here, there is a clear difference.
DLSS is better here. The lines on the floor around the feet of the Goon-4-Less soldier are just gone on the Pro, but this could be due to the much higher AF on PC (4x on PS5). Otherwise, DLSS is simply way better at reconstructing details. Ratchet's body is much more defined, the strands of fur on his tail are more visible, and everything just looks cleaner and higher res with DLSS. I honestly thought this was DLAA, but given the context of the video, it's more likely DLSS Quality.
The exploding crate in front of the plant looks much better on the PS5 Pro. #DLSSFail
AngelMuffin
Member
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
It looks pretty good. Kind of agree with Rich from DF that it's similar to gen 2 DLSS offerings. Have to wait and see some specific spots in R&C to see how well it holds up in tough scenarios. I saw a couple screens in DF's breakdown that didn't look too hot on PS5 Pro, even compared to base PS5. I'd say it's somewhere between DLSS 'Perf' and 'Balanced' going by R&C.
Ironman_Bad
Member
We will see once games like wolverine and death stranding 2 release on both ofcourse the pc upgrade is never ending so eventually you will brute force 100+ frames but the spending is endless too lol
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PaintTinJr
Member
Explain how AFx16 on a native 720p like Jenson implies with his 1 -> 32 pixels gives useful AFx16 on a resulting 8K DLSS inferenced image, that made it worthwhile, or even directly attributable to 8K output's texture sample representation results.
The target frame-rate for the (single player R&C) game is at a design level for the animations, whatever the target frame-rate is optimal. Rendering above that at the expense of frame pacing isn't a win.
You made the claim the RT features weren't in - last time you checked - so I assumed you could provide a screenshot with the RT feature on from PC to compare with a Pro shot in which they are missing to prove 'your claim' - I made no assumption either way.
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