Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
To be fair it actually was pretty good still, not what some people thought and not everyone’s cup of tea, but it was enjoyable and meant to grow and boy did it grow into something very good
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Pushsquare - Dreams Is Arguably PS4's Most Impressive Exclusive Yet.
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
- Start date
.
A.Romero
Member
Probably the most innovative to hit Playstation in a while. Not my cup of tea personally but you'd have to be a fool not to see the amazing potential it has.
It doesn't matter what the marketing machine says, the videos of players in the beta say everything we need to know: it works.
It doesn't matter what the marketing machine says, the videos of players in the beta say everything we need to know: it works.
Alan Silvestro
Member
Is it possible to create sport games like iss or fifa or, even better, arcade titles like libero grande?
There was a LBP football game so I don't see why not. I saw the characters video posted included a character called 'farmer boy' and that had me thinking about making a Harvest Moon personally.
Geki-D
Banned
I'd imagine the hardest thing with that would be making decent enough AI for the CPU players.
Verdanth
Member
That sir, needs a full remake. Not a dreams like remake.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
The scope and granularity of the tools in Dreams is unprecedented; its seriously impressive.
Obviously its not going to match pro-grade tools in every area, but that'd be ridiculous overkill for a product that is aimed at consumers and especially hobbyists. The collaborative aspect is the really interesting thing, because it hopefully will allow individual creators to indulge a particular discipline (art, music, coding) and then share the fruits of their labor with other folks skilled in other ways. The possibilities for a sort of ad-hoc synergy are enormous and could prove tremendously rewarding as an educational tool.
The biggest concerns I have regard curation and accessibility, as the sheer volume of material created could become overwhelming if the title "blows up".
Obviously its not going to match pro-grade tools in every area, but that'd be ridiculous overkill for a product that is aimed at consumers and especially hobbyists. The collaborative aspect is the really interesting thing, because it hopefully will allow individual creators to indulge a particular discipline (art, music, coding) and then share the fruits of their labor with other folks skilled in other ways. The possibilities for a sort of ad-hoc synergy are enormous and could prove tremendously rewarding as an educational tool.
The biggest concerns I have regard curation and accessibility, as the sheer volume of material created could become overwhelming if the title "blows up".
Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
Utopia was a good game and Intellivision and so was Mattel Paint.
Grinchy
Banned
This thread is a good example of why the people who cry about how "this site shits on every xbox related thread and us fans are so persecuted!" need to get their heads out of their asses. Sony titles get shit on all the time as well. Every thread about this game has a built-in argument about why it shouldn't even exist.
Geki-D
Banned
-Make a thread about The Last of Us Part 2
-Watch it descend into utter chaos and a total shitshow in 5 posts.
Was this posted on purpose? "Case in point" seems too perfect...
No, this developer genuinely annoys me. I think their "games" blow.
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/medi...s-a-human-cost-to-making-games.1466557/page-3
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
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Rgw20014life
Neo Member
If that creator is attempting to give me a seizure, congratulations.
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I think it is either projection, persecution complex, or in the worst cases just paid or unpaid shilling.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
And it's not even a Naughty Dog, I mean lesbian simulator thread. I dread when more information comes out closer to that game's launch.
Kenpachii
Member
We had this concept already for a while on PC, we called them "game makers" we had legions of those applications and soon people realized that making games is the most boring and dull experience ever and will quit after they make one room to never return again.
It always amazes me that when sony makes something its something revolutionary, amazing, incredible. While all i see as a PC gamer its a updated game maker engine that you gotta control with sticks lol.
What you will see much like game engines is a whole bunch of shitty tech demo's with labels "work in progress" to never see the light of day as its to much effort for no gain. They will make a cool looking room or a few rooms or a level and call it. Because at this point you can better start a kickstarter and get real money going.
This is why modding is so populaire on PC, the groundwork is already done.
Then at the end everybody cheers for it that it's amazing, but in reality if you compare it towards real games its total dog shit.
U can clearly see how console gamers didn't experienced the PC "gamer maker" area.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
What the fuck kind of post is this?
Is this a PC Master race thing? I've been a PC Gamer since the Commodore 64/Amiga and early 90s with the Intel 386/486 and Pentium on up.
Learned to code from library books on the Commodore 64, made maps with UEd for UT, worked closely with gameplay, licensing, and interface designers for a flagship MLB franchise, and I can still appreciate this pretty amazing suite for a console.
Why so bitter tho?
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Caio
Member
I couldn't say it better.
Caio
Member
You really missed a chance to keep your mouth close.
julio_grr
Member
You clearly haven't seen anything Dreams is capable of.
Why do you think console owners do not own a PC too? See
DeepEnigma
's answer.Exactly.
Dreams is community based.
See the last video from
GribbleGrunger
. He found a nice level with a little house under the snow. In a few seconds he was goofing around with a clown outside the house. And - without diminishing GribbleGrunger's competences - he is not a modder.It will be so popular among streamers nobody will understand what is happening.
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GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
You clearly haven't seen anything Dreams is capable of.
Why do you think console owners do not own a PC too? See
Exactly.
Dreams is community based.
See the last video from
It will be so popular among streamers nobody will understand what is happening.
I feel diminished! Yes, I of course agree. The reason I did that was to show exactly what you've said. The juxtaposition of scene and character can be used to great affect and streamers will love it. And coincidentally, my most popular vid, standing currently at 955 views, is my character vid.
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julio_grr
Member
Good
I have a quick question for you:
Do you have an idea of how much disk space do the creations take? When I see the amount of work DISARMED already did, I wonder how the servers will support the load one year from now...
Angry_Megalodon
Member
All you said is wrong and you have clearly no clue what you are talking about.
Dreams is a tool FOR NON-CODERS. PC MODDERS ARE FAMILIAR TO PROGRAMMING IF NOT PROGRAMMERS.
Is it so hard to see the difference?
I think Dreams should be available for PC, indeed the best artists are in that space. But comparing PC game-makers to Dreams is the definition of bullshitting.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Good
I have a quick question for you:
Do you have an idea of how much disk space do the creations take? When I see the amount of work DISARMED already did, I wonder how the servers will support the load one year from now...
Local space space is 1gb but levels take up very little space. It appears to be infinite online though.
julio_grr
Member
Seems to be a very, very small limitation. I don't see how it can work in the long term. Or it was just for the beta.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
It takes mere mbs to save a game. A lot of that space is taken up with 'versions' which you can eventually delete.
Redneckerz
Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
I think you are just upset that Dreams is not on PC. After all, you were equally bitter that Bloodborne was not, but the game is so amazing you tolerated playing it on the poor console.
Its just Dirthead. The gaming equivalent to Angularsaxophone. Except Angular atleast replied to users, Dirthead just puts them on ignore. Can't have anyone crumble the fabricated reality he is in!
If we had to pick a modern equivalent, say GameGuru... than Dreams is already more than that.
Besides that they aren't the same thing either way. GameGuru and FPS Creator are game creators. Dreams is more about making an experience, whether thats a real time machinima, interactive art, music composition, rendering suite or game.
The angle from both titles is vastly different. You would know if you actually followed the concept of Dreams. But alas, all you see is what you want to see.
And i am a man of all platforms, so i have no bias whatsoever.
Feel free to address this with a serious rebuttal, unless your intent was making a shitpost, in which case, congratulations. You sure showed everyone.
MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
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dust bunny
Member
Have to disagree. This game is basically my job and it's not something I'm interested in playing, at all. I don't feel like taking my job home with me. I am interested in seeing what other people will do with it once it's out though.
CuNi
Member
Not completely true. Unity and unreal both support module based programming just like the logic is handled in Dreams. So if dreams allows non coders to technically code, so do unreal and unity. Dreams is more a "whole package" mind of deal where you can code, create textures, create models etc in instead of having different programs for all of that but that's already it. Dreams literally is a devkit for ps4 that runs on ps4.
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Here are few things that you fail to mention.
3D Game:
- You have to learn how to rig 3D characters
- Import Texture, bump mapping, make transparency maps for hair and clothing
- Make 3D models in either 3D Max, Zbrush etc. and then import them into either Unity, Unreal Engine etc.
- You have to animate your characters and use programs that cost hundreds of dollars. There are other programs that make it easier, but then you have to learn how to properly set up your animation scenes for your characters
2D Game:
- There's video game makers such as M.U.G.E.N, RPG Maker etc. but you're limited to what you can do.
- In Mugen, you have to make spirtes, import them, set up palette
I can literally go on and on, but what makes Dreams unique is that you have the tolls available and they're easier to use than what most video game engines are offering.
On top of all of this, you have a platform that will easily share your work for people see and play.
People don't have the time to learn how to do most of this stuff. There are sure ways to make things easier, but this is probably as easy as it's going to get in most cases.
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
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DeleteriousObnoxious
Member
Man We Can finally get the tomb raider game We deserve
SaucyJack
Member
MisterBrimstone
Member
Looks totally not for me.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
To be honest, I fail to see how Dreams isn't for everyone. It's such a weird thing to see people saying 'I don't want endless, free games and content. It's just not for me.' I don't like Unity, it's not for me ... See how that sounds? Perhaps it's because you still don't quite understand what Dreams is yet. I don't know. It's just an odd thing to say. I could understand, 'I'll wait and see if it produces content I like and then make a judgement' but not dismissing a development suite out of hand like this. I'm not knocking you here. I'm just bewildered by the sentiment.
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thelastword
Banned
Lost Box looks really good.......And funny enough the shooter looks more impressive to me than all the RTX vs Off talk in BFV, lots of atmosphere here, yes, "in the sense like I'd really like to play that"......IQ is good, should perhaps be even better at higher rez (on PS5)...Yet, materials made in Dreams is just straight bonkers, so realitic, doesn't look like a polygonal mess.....This is really impressive and it's getting much more so as I see more creations......As I said, Lost Box looks amazing.....I'd definitely play that....
Need to see more platformers......
Xenon
Member
I am not sure how well this is going to sell. LBP had Sackboy and platforming to get more casual players on-board. The unfocused marketing and lack of a strong single player game of Dreams is going to hurt it. The game seems much more creation focused which most players dont care to do. That goes for dealing with player created content as well.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Short term, Less than LBP numbers. Long term, it'll destroy LBP numbers. The tools ARE creator focused because it's a development suite. The content is consumer focused, just as Youtube or Unity is.
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Xenon
Member
This will only be the case if Sony allows people to publish to PSN directly or makes Dreams F2P. Otherwise it's just going to appeal to creators.
edit: or make it free with PSN subscription since that would be required anyway.
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GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Why do you think it's only going to appeal to creators? This blows my mind. OK ... Let's try to help you understand what Dreams is by giving you an alternative proposition: Unity suddenly appears on the market for $60. Not only that but the developers of Unity allow people who bought it to play all the games made with Unity for free. Every single game there has been and every single game to come. Would you consider that a bargain or only for creative people?
Give it some thought before answering.
Xenon
Member
I've owned every iteration of LBP. While this looks like a huge leap, it's still going to have a limited draw. You need to understand that player create content is not going to sell the game to most players. I see the value in it, but I always have. Comparisons to something like Unity is ridiculous considering it's an open platform that isn't limited to one console and content can be published on any platform. Here they need people to buy Dreams which considering all the media related to it seems to be focused on impressing creators.
Some major hurdles this game will have are MM's history of badly handling network code and level search functions. LBP on the Vita, their last game, was disaster in these aspects. I ended up quitting simply because it was so ridiculously bad. I'm not in the beta so I have no idea how it's running but that still won't be representative to the performance when the game launches. Another problem will be that more often than not style over substance gets highlighted. So you have a lot of great looking levels with mediocre gameplay taking up the top levels because people want good looking levels that they can run through quickly and move onto the next.
It's great you're excited for it but nothing in the history of gaming says this is going to be anything but niche. The one unique draw could be animated movies by creators but people can just watch that on Youtube.
edit: Oh yeah one huge difference is Unity allows creators to monetize their content, which draws better talent.
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