Guy bought an XSeries without a single complaint about release window games. That thing released with literally nothing. You're wasting your time.
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Pushsquare, "PlayStation Needs to Take a Long, Hard Look at Itself"
- Thread starter ArtHands
- Start date
nnytk
Member
I’m reminded of how Blizzard once experimented with a third-person, Dark Souls-style Diablo game and, even earlier, developed Starcraft: Ghost, an action-adventure game. Both titles were eventually canceled. In today's industry, these are exactly the types of games we're missing, and it's indie developers who are stepping into this space to make a name for themselves. Why can't Sony or Xbox produce their own equivalents of Risk of Rain 2, Dead Cells, Hades, Cult of the Lamb, Streets of Rage 4, or Dave the Diver? They have so many different intellectual properties to experiment with. Even Nintendo is succeeding with lower-budget titles like Pikmin 4, Luigi's Mansion 3, and Splatoon. To me, these are essentially AA games.
Perhaps it all comes down to the massive imbalance between passion and corporate greed in the gaming industry. Greed has become too dominant in the AAA realm, and the entire system is imploding—a real waste of talent.
Perhaps it all comes down to the massive imbalance between passion and corporate greed in the gaming industry. Greed has become too dominant in the AAA realm, and the entire system is imploding—a real waste of talent.
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Humdinger
Gold Member
I'm concerned about Sony's decision-making, too. The increasingly "woke" games, the Bungie debacle, the catastrophic failure of Concord, the lack of first-party SP games to anticipate, the increasing focus on GaaS... I was a fan during the late PS3 and PS4 era, but I've lost a lot of confidence in Sony this gen.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
I mean they couldn’t even bother to port their own astrobot game that’s already developed onto their new VR system. Some of their decisions are baffling.
Yeah idk, maybe try playing more games?
But my opinion might totally change once i do get around to the second one.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
Jesus Christ...Playstation has one flop game and all hell breaks loose.
That said, it's clear Herman isn't suited for the role he played for a few years. This and Haven will be Playstation's mistakes. And Bungie.
Basically, almost everything related to live games made Playstation a worse place. Naughty Dog spent 4 years developing and spending money on a game they never released, Bungie was bought and are now crumbling, Haven is making a game no one gives a shit, Firewalk released the biggest flop ever for Sony. Basically the next games are the Horizon live game and what else?
I'm just sad all this happened on the week Astrobot releases. Thank go this was a few days before and tomorrow reviews come out. Let's hope it's a great game cause it seems people have forgotten Sony is also the company that has released Helldivers 2 this year, plus GOTY contender FFVII Rebirth can only be played there...but none of that matters cause Concord flopped.
That said, it's clear Herman isn't suited for the role he played for a few years. This and Haven will be Playstation's mistakes. And Bungie.
Basically, almost everything related to live games made Playstation a worse place. Naughty Dog spent 4 years developing and spending money on a game they never released, Bungie was bought and are now crumbling, Haven is making a game no one gives a shit, Firewalk released the biggest flop ever for Sony. Basically the next games are the Horizon live game and what else?
I'm just sad all this happened on the week Astrobot releases. Thank go this was a few days before and tomorrow reviews come out. Let's hope it's a great game cause it seems people have forgotten Sony is also the company that has released Helldivers 2 this year, plus GOTY contender FFVII Rebirth can only be played there...but none of that matters cause Concord flopped.
kaizenkko
Member
In the last gen Guerrilla Games and Bend Studios developed single-player games, but now the both are developing live service games.
Unknown?
Member
That wasn't all under PlayStation though and they burned good will with at most 25k players? Closing a poor studio to make way for better ones and not making the same mistakes is a good outcome to me.
Unknown?
Member
Not exclusively.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
Sony didn't spend 8 years on this game and we have no sources on those 100M. They literally bought the studio last year dude.
Bombolone
Gold Member
I don’t think Sony is doomed but it seems like arrogant Sony is back.
If they had an actual competitor in this space. I guarantee you the strategy of “let’s throw 10 gaas at a wall and see what sticks” wouldn’t even pass a whisper.
If MS was firing on all cylinders. Halo was killing it, game pass was doing numbers, healthy first party, cod machines etc.
PlayStations strategy would look very different.
If they had an actual competitor in this space. I guarantee you the strategy of “let’s throw 10 gaas at a wall and see what sticks” wouldn’t even pass a whisper.
If MS was firing on all cylinders. Halo was killing it, game pass was doing numbers, healthy first party, cod machines etc.
PlayStations strategy would look very different.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
Oh please tell me you did not JUST complain about Playstation's game releases from fall 2020 until the end of 2021 (that included new IP Returnal, a Ratchet game, Sackboy, etc) and then decided to say you bought a Series S that had nothing to play but CGi trailers from a conference made you do it, lmao
Marketing working better than game releases for some people huh.
Physiognomonics
Member
They have abandonned their decades years long audience and thought they could indoctrinate them into their virtue signaling yet intolerant ideology. Hulst must have seen how woke and rubbish Concord was, but it was sure it would be a phenomenal success. Because he is woke too as he lives in a society where most people have being brainwashed into this communist religion since they were born. He must be fired if they want to save Playstation and replaced by someone else, ideally a Japanese.
Astrobot, like Helldivers 2, will just be an accidental success because one man, Shue Yoshida, once agreed to bring Doucet to Japan and make him the leader of a new team dedicated to Doucet's personnal obsession: building a Nintendo like team focused on fun and gameplay.
Without the commitment and will of Doucet of working for Playstation into trying to make fun videogames first, Playstation would have not much left nowadays.
Astrobot, like Helldivers 2, will just be an accidental success because one man, Shue Yoshida, once agreed to bring Doucet to Japan and make him the leader of a new team dedicated to Doucet's personnal obsession: building a Nintendo like team focused on fun and gameplay.
Without the commitment and will of Doucet of working for Playstation into trying to make fun videogames first, Playstation would have not much left nowadays.
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FewRope
Member
I legit dont believe in the "woke conspiracy" many many users here totally believe, but Concord was 100% a product of executives dont wanting to tell the truth about the absolute dog shit of a game because the game was built on "inclusion" or whatever the fuck the studio heads were selling to Sony.
RoboFu
One of the green rats
Now turn that towards Xbox and its many flops. The media intensifies everything for clicks.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
That's the thing...one flop vs many flops.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
Do you know we're discussing video games? Its really not that serious. I wasnt into Returnal. $70 for a roguelike is completely insane. I got it later for $50 and still felt ripped off. It has cool elements but not enough that I felt I wanted to stick with it. Ive never liked Sackboy. I've never liked Ratchet.
Main draw for me to try the S was Gamepass. MS was also slow to get 1st party stuff going.
Is this opinion allowed? Are you going to be okay?
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ByWatterson
Member
I'm guessing they've already done that.
The shutdown of Concord indicates that they learned their lesson months ago and were always planning to pull the plug if it went ill.
This is an unmitigated disaster, but they appear to be pivoting very, very quickly away from Jim Ryan's GAS initiative.
The shutdown of Concord indicates that they learned their lesson months ago and were always planning to pull the plug if it went ill.
This is an unmitigated disaster, but they appear to be pivoting very, very quickly away from Jim Ryan's GAS initiative.
kaizenkko
Member
Days Gone is a full singleplayer title. And Guerrilla developed Killzone Sahdow Fall (a game with single player and multiplayer), plus Horizon 1 and 2, being the last two full singleplayer titles.
Now are both developing GAAS titles in a context where games are developing in 5+ years.
I still don't know why Days Gone 2 don't get greenlight, the game sell very well, I doubt a new GAAS IP will perform better.
StueyDuck
Member
Sony obviously are the hotness right now for this topic
But all publishers/developers need to have this discussion, thought process about their product.
Sure concord is the latest fuckup but it wasn't the first and it isn't going to be the last.
Those who can truly pivot will succeed
But all publishers/developers need to have this discussion, thought process about their product.
Sure concord is the latest fuckup but it wasn't the first and it isn't going to be the last.
Those who can truly pivot will succeed
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Tiago Rodrigues
Member
You just need to check Ubisoft's stock as we speak. It's about to hit its 10 year lowest.
ZehDon
Member
Who's jumping into Sony's next GaaS on launch day? They torched a lot of goodwill with this thing - a lot more than 25k players.
"Sony didn't do all of the game, they just bought the studio, so closing it is a good outcome". Did you read that before you hit post?
Yeah, I know - Sony purchased them outright, meaning Sony bought all of the time and investment. So, now they own it, it's on them. Sony bought the studio and funded the game - meaning they saw how much shit was wasted over that seven years and purchased it anyway. For me, that's worse than just being bad at your job - that's not knowing the difference between a good game and a bad game. That's Microsoft's problem. If Sony have that problem now, they're in for a world of hurt.
sloppyjoe_gamer
Gold Member
I agree with this, however the writing on the wall was clear with this a long time ago. Being in dev for 8 years should've been a clear enough of a signal, on top of the HUGE negative feedback from gamers before it was even close to release.
Doctor Hades
Member
With Concord bombing and Naughty Dog abandoning the multiplayer The Last of Us project that they spent years working on, I feel that Sony will have no choice but to reconsider the direction they are headed in. Unlike Microsoft, Sony don't have almost unlimited finances to squander away for years. They need to get back to releasing profitable first-party games. Live service games are not the answer as it seems like only 1 in 10, even 1 in 20,l have any chance of being successful. That means at least 9 out of 10 of these are destined for failure will millions lost in development costs, not to mention the inevitable loss of employment that follows soon after went the unhappy shareholders get involved.
I'd like to see Sony focus on smaller scale first party games. The problem is that publishers like Sony are now so in the mindset that triple A games must have triple A production values/visuals that the costs of making the games has massively increased, as has the time needed to make them. That's why there are so few first-party exclusives on PS5 in 2024 compared with the previous generation at the same point. It is also why games themselves are stagnating because publishers want to play it safe and release games they know will sell which stifles creativity. Indie games are where most of the creativity is these days as they can afford to take more risks with much smaller budgets.
I'd like to see Sony take that and somehow bring it to PS5. What makes a console enticing in the first place in having a large and diverse collection of games to play, including first-party exclusives.
I'd like to see Sony focus on smaller scale first party games. The problem is that publishers like Sony are now so in the mindset that triple A games must have triple A production values/visuals that the costs of making the games has massively increased, as has the time needed to make them. That's why there are so few first-party exclusives on PS5 in 2024 compared with the previous generation at the same point. It is also why games themselves are stagnating because publishers want to play it safe and release games they know will sell which stifles creativity. Indie games are where most of the creativity is these days as they can afford to take more risks with much smaller budgets.
I'd like to see Sony take that and somehow bring it to PS5. What makes a console enticing in the first place in having a large and diverse collection of games to play, including first-party exclusives.
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EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.1
AAA games first guaranteed gt8, Spider-Man 3, god of war 3, there’s big games coming.
TerribleAtThisGame
Member
Give me Returnal 2 and all will be forgiven.
kaizenkko
Member
I think things will get better for now on. Sony already rethought their GAAS strategy: a lot of titles (TLOU Factions, Twisted Metal, London Studio's new IP) get cancel, they made cuts in live service games investiments (Bungie layofs, games being canceled) and their most important studios are focused in single-player titles.
mansoor1980
Member
"a Long, Hard "
cash_longfellow
Member
And yet, 100% of the time, the one with Down Syndrome is still the strongest one in the roomPlaystation looking at itself.
Portugeezer
Member
Looking at itself means looking at this:
Begleiter
Member
Hulst was head of Playstation Studios prior to his current position and had that role from 2019, they'd have been under his remit since the purchase. Add to that the fact they had two betas in July and he was in a position to react to those. I do think it's more Jim Ryan's fault, but when he left it was on his replacements to mitigate the damage he caused.
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TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
More single-player games.
Less gaas stuff.
Hire normal people.
Scale back a bit on scope, put out more games even if they are smaller.
Should be easy, they have the money and the competition isn't doing much better anyway.
Less gaas stuff.
Hire normal people.
Scale back a bit on scope, put out more games even if they are smaller.
Should be easy, they have the money and the competition isn't doing much better anyway.
Gamer_By_Proxy
Member
I take long looks at Playstation and get hard myself.
TropicanaTwista
Member
In the last gen, Guerrilla games made a game that had both SP and MP, in which the MP was significantly better in KZ shadow fall. Similar in the previous gen with KZ2 and 3. Why are we talking about here people? They already released a game this gen in Forbidden West that is SP only.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Yeah, Sony clearly don’t have GaaS expertise so they’re gonna go through growing pains with it.
Everything looks obvious with hindsight being 20/20
TidusYuna
Member
Just go back to focusing on great Single Player experiences and invest in more Japanese games/developers, which is lacking from Sony's 1st party portfolio. If they have to have a multiplayer component, include it with the singleplayer game like they did back in the day with Killzone, Socom, and the Last of us Factions. Release DLC for the multiplayer aspect of the game if the game is thriving to keep it going.
fart town usa
Member
That's what I say. Why does every game have to be some massive tent pole production? Make some small games and see what catches on, and then release bigger sequels if they want. It's all so dumb. We got a taste with Humanity but they should be doing stuff like that with platformers, racers, etc. Anything really. The budgets could be small, it would generate interest and goodwill with players. Hell, Sony could even outright tell players that these games are being made to test out new IPs or reboots. That's what cartoon network did back in the day with Johnny Bravo, Dexter's Lab, etc. Those were one offs for a show that basically tested new cartoons and they capitalized on the cartoons that their audience enjoyed the most. We really could run SIE better than the current leadership at Sony.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
when you PR is a disaster a showcase is the answer.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Black Myth proves that games can look next gen with insane production values and still ship on time. This is a game made by 130 people in around 4 years. There are plenty of examples of AAA games this gen that have been made on time. Insomniac is one of them. Respawn made jedi survivor in 3.5 years. Avatar and Star Wars outlaws were made in around 4-5 years being developed at the same studio simultaneously. Alan Wake 2 was made in 3.5 years.
Partly the reason but not the main reason. Yes, Sony games take forever to make nowadays but thats because they are all 50-100 hours long. no one asked them to make games that long. Ragnorak and HFW are just the definition of bloat. Ragnorak is 50-60 hours to see all content and yet, they phoned in the actual ragnorak event and the final battles with Thor and Odin. It's just poor management and scope. They used to make 10-15 hour games back in the day without any issues. They can still do that with the same production values, they just want bloat.
The main reason is that all of their studios have been mismanaged since Herman took over from Shu. Bend's ex game director said that he wouldve had days gone 2 out by 2023. thats 4 years. ND typically releases games once every 2-3 years, they have gone 4 years without revealing their new game releasing only a remake they took over from another studio. Sucker Punch has always taken its time with games but making a direct sequel shouldnt take this long either.
If you look at what has happened behind the scenes at a lot of these studios, sony's lack of output makes a lot more sense.
- Bend. Sony rejected their days gone 2 pitch 6 months in the making. Then had them waste a year and a half on an uncharted spin off that was cancelled after ND's constant meddling.
- ND. Neil fucked off to make a tv show after making TLOU2 forcing his dev team to meddle with Bend's uncharted spin off and VSG's remake. Bend bailed after VSG heads quit the studio in protest of ND leaving ND with a mess on their hand.
- GG and SSM. Unlike Massive who started developing their games as next gen only games in around 2018-2019, they chose to make cross gen games that were simply not what their fanbase wants from their new $500 consoles. Had they made next gen only games, people would not be so down on sony's output this gen.
- PD. Same thing as GG and SSM. Just another last gen title that didnt give fans what they want. A true next gen showcase from Sony's flagship franchise.
- KojiPro - Andrew House had signed Kojima up for a two game deal and yet for whatever reason, the develpoment for DS2 didnt start until late 2021, early 2022. Who is to blame for that? Why didnt they begin development immediately after shipping DS2 in 2019? It could be due to the lack of investment in SP games. See below.
- sucker punch - 4+ years since shipping their last game. Nothing to show for it? This is a small team of 100 people, clearly needed to hire more people but Sony's lack of investment in SP during rising costs is likely the reason why both Sucker Punch and Bluepoint have gone 4 years without showing a single screen for their new game. they are underfunded. Plain and simple.
