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[jcorb]

A bit hyperbolic. If they learned their lesson from Concord, no harm no foul. If not, they should look at new management.

It's definitely an insane situation, but I do think this is a very important takeaway. It's kind of crazy to pull the plug so quickly, but I also have a tiny amount of respect for not buying into the sunken cost fallacy.

I have to think they're going to do *something* with Concord. The rumored $200m budget is far too great to just *completely* throw away. I've heard others suggest it get reworked into a F2P game, probably go back to the drawing board on the character designs. Or hell, try to frankenstein it into some kind of single-player experience. I don't see a world in which they break even on it, but it's certainly possible they could rework things to try and recoup at least a portion of it.

 

[Gambit2483]

Sony's first mistake was de-emphasizing AA games and shutting down it's Japan Studios. Their 2nd mistake was relocating to California, sipping the Western "modern gaming" Kool-aid.

Hopefully the utter failure of Concord will cause them to begin course correction, stop leaning so heavily into DEI and refocus on AA games to help fund and support the bigger AAA projects..but of course that's not going to happen.

 

[Haint]

Go back to your roots, focus on SP only games, close gaas studios, buys studios focused on SP games. Release at least 3-4 AAA sp gamnes per year.

They absolutely need some MP games, just not hero shooters, trend chasers, or PVP only games. Concord's release actually should have been a Destiny 3, or an actually good and not pay 2 win Warframe/First Desendant style game, or a new AAA PSO or non-isometric Diablo, or some entrely new, accessible, and innovative MMO-lite. The thing all these games have in common is they are chiefly PVE and can also be played solo.

The PVP competitive scene is a very very specific market of sweaty try hards that plays ONLY that style of game exclusively and is extremely finnicky and unpredictable on what they choose to like and support, literally trying to catch lightning in a bottle. Trend chasing that market is a suicide mission, which Sony just learned a $200 million dollar lesson on.

 

[pasterpl]

I will said it first. Sony is doomed. /s

 

[FewRope]

They absolutely need some MP games, just not hero shooters, trend chasers, or PVP only games. Concord's release actually should have been a Destiny 3, or an actually good and not pay 2 win Warframe/First Desendant style game, or a new AAA PSO or non-isometric Diablo, or some entrely new, accessible, and innovative MMO-lite. The thing all these games have in common is they are chiefly PVE and can also be played solo.

The PVP competitive scene is a very very specific market of sweaty try hards that plays ONLY that style of game exclusively and is extremely finnicky and unpredictable on what they choose to like and support, literally trying to catch lightning in a bottle. Trend chasing that market is a suicide mission, which Sony just learned a $200 million dollar lesson on.

Imagine a new MAG or Warhawk instead of chasing the hero shooter genre, Hulst is actually retarded for this job

 

[squallheart]

Sony's first mistake was de-emphasizing AA games and shutting down it's Japan Studios. Their 2nd mistake was relocating to California, sipping the Western "modern gaming" Kool-aid.

Hopefully the utter failure of Concord will cause them to begin course correction, stop leaning so heavily into DEI and refocus on AA games to help fund and support the bigger AAA projects..but of course that's not going to happen.

This I feel everything went down when they relocated to california. During the state of play the only game I found interesting was astro so my only gaming right now is older titles I just finished re4 remake lol.

 

[Angelcurio]

Hulst was head of Playstation Studios prior to his current position and had that role from 2019, they'd have been under his remit since the purchase. Add to that the fact they had two betas in July and he was in a position to react to those. I do think it's more Jim Ryan's fault, but when he left it was on his replacements to mitigate the damage he caused.

Exactly, Hulst became head of WWS in 2019. If anything, he must have given his blessing to Ryan to actually proceed with the acquisition. I doubt any head of SIE would buy a studio that the head of WWS would not consider of actual value to the company, be it for its development quality or for the games or ip under their production.

 

[fart town usa]

Because they are too big for those game. Because SIE needs to invest billions in gaming, they can't be investing in games that cost $5-$10 million to make because then they'd have to invest in hundreds of projects to spend the billions they have allocated for gaming. First of all there aren't hundreds of good projects available, and their CEO isn't going to be able to sift through the thousands of proposals to pick those hundreds. No, what they will do is do several games that each cost over $100 million.

That makes sense but all I see in recent Sony history is studio closures, layoffs, and nearly 4 billion being wasted on Bungie and Firewalk.

Having some smaller games from junior teams would be negligible when it comes to budget and could potentially pay off in spades. It's not like they can't develop small games while also doing big games. Humanity is the recent example, they just need to lean into it more. Lego Horizon might fit that too, though I wouldn't be surprised if the budget was astronomical. Same with Astrobot, Team Asobi is small.

It is what it is though, Sony seems content with embarrassing themselves and wasting money. Nothing I can do about it.

 

[fart town usa]

Imagine a new MAG or Warhawk instead of chasing the hero shooter genre, Hulst is actually retarded for this job

I'm of the mindset that Herman has always been overrated, as has Guerilla. Technical wizards, absolutely. Horrible story tellers though and gameplay has always been mid AFAIC. They got by on production value.

Killzone never reached its potential and the story was a dud when it had no right to be. Horizon sells boatloads but my God, style over substance all day. Herman can't leave soon enough IMO.

 

[LavitzSlambert]

Shameless self-compliments incoming.

I got my PS5 in 2020. Been calling this since 2021, and have been called a fanboy ever since. In reality, I was just able to see it and admit it much, much faster.

By 2021 we already saw game prices rise, Japan Studio closed, anemic launch window with my only games being a remake and a really similar sequel (Demon's Souls, Miles Morales), and nothing promised in the future. That's the year I picked up a Series S after their E3 showing. A lot of people were calling out Jim Ryan early.

Couldn't have said it better. I didn't go as far as you to pick up an Xbox (LOL).

Things at Playstation have been extremely worrying ever since Layden & crew got pushed out. I bought my PS5 as a "best way to play PS4 games, plus will get plenty of third party and PS5 exclusives eventually" machine and for that purpose it hasn't disappointed. But Sony's first party offerings and general decision making has been horrible and it's been no secret. Things are just coming to a head with all the buildup and now a very scarce 2024 without anything on the immediate horizon (aside from glorious Astro Bot, bless Team Asobi) has the normies suddenly aware and very upset.

 

[Gojiira]

Blah blah blah… Meanwhile Stellar Blade, Helldivers 2, FF7, FF16, Black Myth, Silent Hill 2, Astrobot…Yeah one flop in Concord is hardly a sign of anything, EVERY publisher fucks up occasionally…Look at how many flops Xbox has had yet they are still ticking

 

[MacReady13]

Sony's first mistake was de-emphasizing AA games and shutting down it's Japan Studios. Their 2nd mistake was relocating to California, sipping the Western "modern gaming" Kool-aid.

Hopefully the utter failure of Concord will cause them to begin course correction, stop leaning so heavily into DEI and refocus on AA games to help fund and support the bigger AAA projects..but of course that's not going to happen.

100% truth right here. Leaving Japan and going to California was there 1 and ONLY mistake and it has cost them big time.

 

[VictorVectors]

Blah blah blah… Meanwhile Stellar Blade, Helldivers 2, FF7, FF16, Black Myth, Silent Hill 2, Astrobot…Yeah one flop in Concord is hardly a sign of anything, EVERY publisher fucks up occasionally…Look at how many flops Xbox has had yet they are still ticking

Sony doesn't have Microsoft cash. Growth is the expectation. Investors want 5.5 Billion this year. Year on year profit.

This is an owned, internal studio. Concord cost them to the tune of 250 Million. Very public. Investors watching. They'll have to recoup that somewhere.

When Square Enix lost 100 million on "The Sprits Within" movie, they immediately removed the entire power structure over the damage including the original creator of Final Fantasy.

Be grateful you're living through a money marker that will be studied.

 

[Gojiira]

Sony doesn't have Microsoft cash. Growth is the expectation. Investors want 5.5 Billion this year. Year on year profit.

This is an owned, internal studio. Concord cost them to the tune of 250 Million. Very public. Investors watching. They'll have to recoup that somewhere.

When Square Enix lost 100 million on "The Sprits Within" movie, they immediately removed the entire power structure over the damage including the original creator of Final Fantasy.

Be grateful you're living through a money marker that will be studied.

Be grateful? Lol…I understand its not small change they just lost but this doom and gloom is beyond stupid at this point.

 

[diffusionx]

It's definitely an insane situation, but I do think this is a very important takeaway. It's kind of crazy to pull the plug so quickly, but I also have a tiny amount of respect for not buying into the sunken cost fallacy.

I have to think they're going to do *something* with Concord. The rumored $200m budget is far too great to just *completely* throw away. I've heard others suggest it get reworked into a F2P game, probably go back to the drawing board on the character designs. Or hell, try to frankenstein it into some kind of single-player experience. I don't see a world in which they break even on it, but it's certainly possible they could rework things to try and recoup at least a portion of it.

It's strange how you mention the sunken cost fallacy in terms of shutting the game down... then reference the sunken costs when you say they have to do something, which is the exact definition of the sunken cost fallacy.

Concord is done, it's over. If Sony spends another dime on this, it's a huge mistake. Literally nobody wants this game, the characters, the story, the universe. They didn't play it when it was free in the beta, why would they play it when it is F2P after bombing in the market? Why would anyone play a single player version of this, when it is clear the story and characters was a major reason why they didn't play it?

 

[anothertech]

They put every idiot CEO like Jim Ryan... Or Hermen Hulst... The last straw would be Drunkman as CEO.

Knock on fucking wood! Oh hell no. Please God save us if this ever crossed their minds

 

[nial]

Overly emotional, not rational, cursing at me, and now I'm a liar. Just putting you on ignore again. I genuinely don't like having to deal with people freaking out about console wars. Go attack other people if you want, but I'm not reading your stuff anymore.

?????????? This isn't your first time on the internet, so yes it's hard to believe what you're saying, because there's no way such a safe "extreme" expression could have truly offended you.
I used a 'the fuck', A 'THE FUCK'. I'm not even calling you retarded or something.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Look at how much money was had before the DEI initiatives, now look at after. Who cares if twitter complains and cater to the people who are actually buying the games.

 

[Msamy]

I keep telling that those fu.. cunts at sony top management including hirman hulst should have been fired long time ago

 

[Jinzo Prime]

They put every idiot CEO like Jim Ryan... Or Hermen Hulst... The last straw would be Drunkman as CEO.

Please Sony, Please make Druckman the CEO I need the schadenfreude!

Do I just sit back, wait to see if Switch2 can run Call of Duty?

That's what I'm planning to do.

 

[King Dazzar]

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I keep telling that those fu.. cunts at sony top management including hirman hulst should have been fired long time ago

take that back. Hermen is BOSSS

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Some senior heads need to roll for the massive failure that is Concord & Naughty Dog wasting years of dev time on a failed multiplayer project.

We are how many years into the gen and so far we've had some nice games from Insomniac but what in gods green earth is happening with Bend, Santa Monica, Sucker Punch etc.

 

[jcorb]

It's strange how you mention the sunken cost fallacy in terms of shutting the game down... then reference the sunken costs when you say they have to do something, which is the exact definition of the sunken cost fallacy.

Concord is done, it's over. If Sony spends another dime on this, it's a huge mistake. Literally nobody wants this game, the characters, the story, the universe. They didn't play it when it was free in the beta, why would they play it when it is F2P after bombing in the market? Why would anyone play a single player version of this, when it is clear the story and characters was a major reason why they didn't play it?

Fair. I suppose my thinking is, credit for them for not just "sticking to their guns" in hopes that time would be the great equalizer, but I also think there are ways to leverage content already made.

WildStar is an MMO that failed, but I've often wondered if it would have found success if reworked into a single-player RPG. It had a lot of great things going for it, it just didn't find the audience it needed as an MMO.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

I keep telling that those fu.. cunts at sony top management including hirman hulst should have been fired long time ago

Have to wonder why Hulst was promoted in the first place.

 

[VictorVectors]

Have to wonder why Hulst was promoted in the first place.

I'm surprised he wasn't promoted earlier. Hulst is a true believer in "The Message" that has been resolutely rejected by consumers.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

They're killing their long term viability by going to PC with first party.

They're killing short term success of any kind when they fiddle with successful stuff like Helldivers or support stuff like concord. They need more Astrobot. Build a library steadily of more and more exclusives like you did on PS3 except you have WAY more studios now and are in a stronger position to leverage your IP by perhaps having third parties develop even MORE exclusives. You have the IP Sony!

 

[RickMasters]

Sony doesn't have Microsoft cash. Growth is the expectation. Investors want 5.5 Billion this year. Year on year profit.

This is an owned, internal studio. Concord cost them to the tune of 250 Million. Very public. Investors watching. They'll have to recoup that somewhere.

When Square Enix lost 100 million on "The Sprits Within" movie, they immediately removed the entire power structure over the damage including the original creator of Final Fantasy.

Be grateful you're living through a money marker that will be studied.

I think a lot of people forget that part when talk about MS success/ failure/ risk factored vs that of Sony.


I think, they think that as long as PS is outselling Xbox everything is hunky-doree. But that’s not how it works. Money talks, keeps lights on keeps investors happy and people in jobs.

 

[zedinen]

PlayStation ?

Sony Group president, COO and CFO is running PlayStation (SIE), Push Square

 

[hussar16]

Look at the end of the day it doesn't matter, this year has been a 'paused' year for them. Come next year and the marketing deal with GTA VI, plus with the PS5 Pro they will completely drive the consoles sales even further.

At this stage they wouldn't even need first party to push them forward in 25-26, but let's wait and see what happens.. At the end of the day we are still waiting for an event.

Well consoles sooner or later wil be phased put vompellty amf just be a app service so sony needs money someway and a live gamr is only wag to help if they dont sell consoles

 

[Brigandier]

Well consoles sooner or later wil be phased put vompellty amf just be a app service so sony needs money someway and a live gamr is only wag to help if they dont sell consoles

Been hearing that shit for 3 generations and it's still not a thing. Hardware isn't going anywhere, an app streaming service off your TV vs hardware plugged into your TV is no contest and is a long way off.

 

[TheRaidenPT]

Well consoles sooner or later wil be phased put vompellty amf just be a app service so sony needs money someway and a live gamr is only wag to help if they dont sell consoles

We are still 10-15 years away from gaming as a service from the cloud.

Personally I prefer to pay for my hardware

 

[Natsuko]

Mirror mirror on the wall, next to whom did Xbox burst like a fireball?

 

[Dirk Benedict]

Sony's first mistake was de-emphasizing AA games and shutting down it's Japan Studios. Their 2nd mistake was relocating to California, sipping the Western "modern gaming" Kool-aid.

Hopefully the utter failure of Concord will cause them to begin course correction, stop leaning so heavily into DEI and refocus on AA games to help fund and support the bigger AAA projects..but of course that's not going to happen.

From what I read recently, Sony is quintupling down on DEI. This is a far cry from 2013 Sony. In just 10 years, they went to one of my favorite gaming companies, to just some company that puts out games, and I look to see if there is anything interesting I might want to pick up. I feel in the last 4 years, with the willingness to miss out on PS5 hardware and then buying less games as each year went by... I no longer think my tastes align with the company's direction. But, hey, that's just me.

 

[RagnarokIV]

From what I read recently, Sony is quintupling down on DEI. This is a far cry from 2013 Sony. In just 10 years, they went to one of my favorite gaming companies, to just some company that puts out games, and I look to see if there is anything interesting I might want to pick up. I feel in the last 4 years, with the willingness to miss out on PS5 hardware and then buying less games as each year went by... I no longer think my tastes align with the company's direction. But, hey, that's just me.

It's not just you, I'm with you on this. So it's just us lol

 

[PurePlatinum]

Giving ultimate leadership of the Studio's to the guy who championed Killzone/Horizon was always a bad idea. I'm not sure Guerrilla has ever put out a game that was more than a B.

Golden age of Sony 1st party came under Shuhei, who KNOWS his shit. IMO leadership of PS at that level should always reside in Japan.

 

[Mr Hyde]

Third parties have been carrying PS5 this generation. Sony has done a lot of smart deals securing big console exclusives like FF7 Rebirth, Stellar Blade, Silent Hill 2 and Rise of the Ronin. Outside of Astro Bot, first party have been severely lacking. It started out good with Demon's Souls, Returnal, Rift Apart, Forbidden West and Ragnarok, but since they went balls deep with GaaS it's been dry land and Sony seems to have foreseen it, making all these deals. But when I think about it, Playstation has always been carried by third party, with Sony securing big exclusives to their platform. It has been like this every generation. It's just more noticeable now that PS Studios have such an amazing track record that defines the PS platform.

 

[yogaflame]

Sony has to go back to the good old days of Ps1 and ps2 era of great single players games and revive old OG franchises like Killzone, Resistance, Alundra, Wild arms, Legend of Dragoon, Legend of Legaia, Wipe out, Warhawk, Twisted Metal, Jak and Daxter, SOCOM, Syphon Filter etc.

And stop being influence by that plague and poison to the industry Sweet baby inc. Stop force and pushing for narrative of woke agenda especially twisted gender ideology.

 

[Clear]

Sony has to go back to the good old days of Ps1 and ps2 era of great single players games and revive old OG franchises like Killzone, Resistance, Alundra, Wild arms, Legend of Dragoon, Legend of Legaia, Wipe out, Warhawk, Twisted Metal, Jak and Daxter, SOCOM, Syphon Filter etc.

How about leaving the past alone and trying new stuff? Seriously, there's a reason why these franchises fell by the wayside: they didn't perform.

If they failed back then, why would they suddenly blow the doors off now? Especially as this is exactly the sort of thinking that's seen Xbox collapse into a shadow of its former self.

 

[jonnyp]

GaaS abortions and remakes no one asked for. A whole generation almost and not one new Naughty Dog game. Today's Sony is pitiful.

 

[Lysandros]

It's not just you, I'm with you on this. So it's just us lol

We are dozens.

 

[BattleScar]

Sony has to go back to the good old days of Ps1 and ps2 era of great single players games and revive old OG franchises like Killzone, Resistance, Alundra, Wild arms, Legend of Dragoon, Legend of Legaia, Wipe out, Warhawk, Twisted Metal, Jak and Daxter, SOCOM, Syphon Filter etc.

And stop being influence by that plague and poison to the industry Sweet baby inc. Stop force and pushing for narrative of woke agenda especially twisted gender ideology.

Those games stopped being made cause not enough people bought them.

The big money is in Fortnite.

 

[Parazels]

I wonder why Sony doesn't expand a portfolio of genres from their first party studios.
I mean they have many third person adventures, but no first person shooters (except Destiny 2), no sports games, no JPRG, no fighting, no air sim etc.

Why don't make a game like Twisted Metal or Vigilant 8 with modern graphics and destructable stages?

 

[MALpractice311]

Those games stopped being made cause not enough people bought them.

The big money is in Fortnite.

Ok, but how many Fortnites can the market sustain? Not many, I'd venture to say. People who love GAAS's have their one or two regular GAAS's and it takes a lot to get them to try other things.

Whereas fans of single player games, buy a game, play it, beat it, and then go out to buy another single player game, rinse and repeat.

 

[BattleScar]

Ok, but how many Fortnites can the market sustain? Not many, I'd venture to say. People who love GAAS's have their one or two regular GAAS's and it takes a lot to get them to try other things.

Whereas fans of single player games, buy a game, play it, beat it, and then go out to buy another single player game, rinse and repeat.

The problem is expectation.

Those games absolutely could exist with small to medium budgets. However the expectation for any game made by PlayStation is top tier production values.
I guarantee anything that didn't look like God's own creation made by a first party Sony Studio would get cooked on this very forum for not looking amazing.

And then people wonder why budgets are exploding for video games. People expect the highest possible fidelity in almost every situation, but fail to understand that it comes at a cost.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Those games stopped being made cause not enough people bought them.

The big money is in Fortnite.

It is for now, but like all trends in gaming there comes a decline.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

Man, the Playstation haters have been having a field day since Concord. Smart business know how to adapt, so I have faith Sony won't go out of business by continually making games people don't want to buy.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Man, the Playstation haters have been having a field day since Concord. Smart business know how to adapt, so I have faith Sony won't go out of business by keep making games people don't want to buy.

I guess the worry is that the rot could be too deep in the internal development studios. I'd love to see them invest in more Japanese first party development.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Man, the Playstation haters have been having a field day since Concord. Smart business know how to adapt, so I have faith Sony won't go out of business by keep making games people don't want to buy.

Reducing their GAAS games in development from 12 to 6 is a good start, keep moving in that direction, all the way to 0.

 

[yogaflame]

I will said it first. Sony is doomed. /s

They are not doomed, its just that they are going to the wrong direction and allowing to be influence by agendas. After Concord and Ubisoft case, I hope they will learn from it and be awaken.