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Puzzle & Dragons |OT4| Co-op Edition: Stoning With Friends

Bladelaw

Member
The D.Kali+ collab monsters are both fantastic D.Kali slots. Lightning's true damage is probably better, but both her and Ichigo are great. If you charge all the way, you get a nice little boost. If not, no big deal.
Yeah, no luck pulling Lightning though since I was saving stones for the PCGF. Still I have 4 awoken Ra's. I can spare one for skill inheritance.

I'm trying to think of any other holes I need to plug in my Ra dragon team. I'll have burst, shield, board changes, bind protection (if i get Isis), skill delay protection, what else would I need?
 

Jagernaut

Member
Delay. Sometimes you need to kill a boss (with damage absorb or resolve) over several turns without being hit or putting them in rage mode.
 

yami4ct

Member
I know there are a good number of new players and folks that don't pay too much attention the JP servers here, so here's a quick FAQ on the Skill Inheritance system. I thought it might be useful since it's the biggest change to the game in a long awhile.

What is Skill Inheritance?

PaD now gives the players the ability to 'equip' an active ability of a card on another monster. This ability costs new material monsters called 'Tans. Don't worry, the guerrilla they come from is pretty easy and relatively low level teams should be able to clear it. The monster that is being equipped must have come from a REM, must be at least 5* rarity, must be level 99, and must be fully Awoken. So no skill up materials, no descend monsters with good actives like Iza, etc. The process is reversible, so no worries about losing the card.

How does it work in the actual dungeon?
The monster will now have 2 Cooldowns. The long and short, once your original active charges, the equipped one will charge. Once the equip one is charge, it will become the only active available to you. Once you use either of the actives, both will recharge.

That kind of sounds like crap. I like my original actives, why should I care?
The Skill Inheritance system lets you offload situational actives like shields, boosts, delays, etc. onto monsters you'd want to use for their better stats or for their orb change actives. Even if you have absolutely zero use for another skill, the new cooldown effectively operates as a Skill Delay Resist. This means you can counter things like Zaerog Infinite's skill delay without wasting latent awakening slots.

List of commonly used equips:

Delays: Possibly the number 1 desired equip. Allows you to get around many different Descend mechanics like damage absorbs, resolve, etc. Also can just give you needed time before a big hit. Example Monsters: Orochi, Exa-Hydra, D/L Batman, Sun Quan

Damage Shields: Pretty self explanatory. Allows you to counter big hits and pre-emptive attacks. The difference is that Skill Inheritance lets niche shields like the Elementals become way more useful. Examples: Indra, Susano, Raphael, Genie.

True Damage: As hard hitting and high defense monsters like PreDras become more common, these have become more useful. Ones that hit all enemies are far more desired than single target. Poison accomplishes the same task. Example: Ra, Rodin, Neptune

Bind Heal: Most teams have bind heal, but occasionally some squads need it to get around specific leader or type binds if they don't have a natural healer. Examples: Isis, L. Meta, Amaterasu

Damage Boost: Many top tier teams do good burst without a booster, but to do enough damage to late game enemies like the Arena Kalis, this becomes extremely valuable. Examples: Slime Knights like Muse, Jewel Princesses, the Norse pantheon, Kanna, Izanagi

HP Heal: A relatively new trend. This kind of active is mostly used for multiple, so single player teams might not find it so valuable. Basically, this is for teams that stack heavy HP, but don't necessarily have the RCV to back it up. Examples: Amaterasu, L Zhuge Liang, Ceres, Angelious, L Meta.

D. Kali Board Change: What Rainbow team would say no to D. Kali? Example: D. Kali, Ichigo, Lightning, Christmas Kali

Gravity: Very Niche, but can get you out of tight spots by avoiding an attack that hits at certain HPs or getting around resolve. Examples: Hades, Hathor

Junk Clear: Many teams want to hold their board change for a burst attack. Skill inheriting a junk clear lets you deal with junk filled boards without wasting a valuable board change Examples: Board Changers, Mechanical Star God 1 series, Satsuki
 

colinp

Banned
How come sometimes my Best Friend doesn't show up on the list? If I go to the Friends menu it still shows him selected, but he isn't there when I try to select him for a dungeon...
 

Quantum

Member
How come sometimes my Best Friend doesn't show up on the list? If I go to the Friends menu it still shows him selected, but he isn't there when I try to select him for a dungeon...

If the best friend doesn't log in within 24 hours he pops off active (usable) list I believe.

(no lightning swords today o.0)
 
Star Treasure Den or whatever the hell buff:
CjVJZqYUgAE8Cmx.jpg
 

b33r

Member
Saw that, it's really nice, best + per stamina now. I suppose they had to do something to get people to stone on it again with mechdragon on 20x so often and 10x descends around almost constantly.
 
Thanks for the post yami. I forgot I have a skilled sun Quan I can use for a delay. Going to really be able to use some forgotten box cheerleaders.
 

yami4ct

Member
Thanks for the post yami. I forgot I have a skilled sun Quan I can use for a delay. Going to really be able to use some forgotten box cheerleaders.

Delays are kind of a hard skill to find for inheritance. There's a ton of 1 turn+other use delays out there, but that isn't all that useful. It's pretty much Hydra, Orochi for long delays and the few 2 turns that exist. 3 turn is completely the purview of non-REM cards. I was really sad to see the Christmas Healer Girls are 4 star instead of 5. It means that they aren't qualified for Skill Inheritance. Maybe they'll get an evo this year, but I have to imagine Gung-Ho knows exactly what they're doing leaving them at 4 star.
 

Lyrian

Member
Star Treasure Den or whatever the hell buff:

Well, GungHo had to do something. There were already multiple other methods of obtaining plus eggs that were already superior. Heck, in NA, I remember laughing to myself that Star Treasure Thieves' Den had only ran literally **twice** before it was obsolete. Pretty sure, that's not "working as intended".

With 10 plus eggs per 50 stamina, at least for now, that re-places STTD back on top as the most sta/+egg efficent (disregarding rank ups) way to obtain plus eggs.
 

Lyrian

Member
But I have to imagine Gung-Ho knows exactly what they're doing leaving them at 4 star.

That is exactly the case. GungHo has been actually doing this for awhile. No one really caught on about it until skill inheritance was a thing, but it was definitely planned out well in advance.

As all REM cards can evolve into 5*s for skill inheritance purposes, that leaves an avenue for GungHo to create overpowered 4* collab cards that aren't really good enough for very late game content (where inheritance really matters), but still make them attractive for the average casual who thinks that these cards are godly. By locking them to 4*s, GungHo keeps the overpowered skills out of late game dungeons intentionally.

After all, no one would argue that 6* UEvo Echidna was superior in any way to 4* XMas Echidna.

Look at the pricing on REM delays:

Zeta Hydra - 5 turns at 20
Orochi - 4 turns at 15
San Quan 2 at 13
Cao Cao, 9 for 1
Okuni, 8 for 1

There is absolutely no way that GungHo allows Echidna at 3 turns for 10 into the mix. That would absolutely break the pricing scheme and is way overpowered. Pretty sure that Echidna was an early game severe undercosting error that GH really regrets and is stuck with to this day.

Now, of relevance to this discussion, would be what happens with Awoken San Quan as 3K is currently on deck for Awokens. SQ's skill is already combined with a 2 turn spike, so they can't really do much there. They could raise his delay to be echidna-like at 3 for 13. If they just slap a "haste team 1 turn", I could see a lot of grumbling over a useless upgrade. On the other hand, Orochi has already set the ceiling at 15 turns, so GH can't make the skill any more costly. Even at 3 for 14, a player might as well say "for 1 more turn I can get 1 additional delay turn, so why bother?". That would make the card useless as well.

I'll be watching the announcement of Awoken SQ with significant interest.
 

Lyrian

Member
PDX reporting 3x/3x for NA with 10x descends again on Friday. Two old GungHo collabs present in coins for the duration of the event. Perhaps 3x EXP on those dungeons as well?
 

Lyrian

Member
Oh WTH? Tans are 1 AM for Group B today? Somebody needs to fire the event planner intern over at GungHo...

/grumble
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Oh WTH? Tans are 1 AM for Group B today? Somebody needs to fire the event planner intern over at GungHo...

/grumble
3AM here...they really don't want me to exportieren skill inheritance lol.
 

Lyrian

Member
Oh boy.... about every PAD forum in the universe is going haywire atm.

Apparently in JP, the PADX collab was announced.

The catch here is the the boss drop, a farmable, requires REM cards to evolve. The boss drop, the main character of the PADX, has 3 evos: one requires Zeus Olympios, one requires sacrificing a Horus, and the last requires sacrificing a Bastet.

The best current running theory on how this gets around complete gacha law is that GungHo may be attempting to argue that this is an "inverse" ultimate evolution for the REM cards. In other words, instead of feeding farmable drops to REM card to evolve it, feeding REM cards to a farmable as a way to create a non-standard evolve for the REM card.

Pics of the cards and evolution mats are on PF Forums. (Scroll down, post #38156)

Also now up on PADX: PADX
 

yami4ct

Member
Oh boy.... about every PAD forum in the universe is going haywire atm.

Apparently in JP, the PADX collab was announced.

The catch here is the the boss drop, a farmable, requires REM cards to evolve. The boss drop, the main character of the PADX, has 3 evos: one requires Zeus Olympios, one requires sacrificing a Horus, and the last requires sacrificing a Bastet.

The best current running theory on how this gets around complete gacha law is that GungHo may be attempting to argue that this is an "inverse" ultimate evolution for the REM cards. In other words, instead of feeding farmable drops to REM card to evolve it, feeding REM cards to a farmable as a way to create a non-standard evolve for the REM card.

Pics of the cards and evolution mats are on PF Forums. (Scroll down, post #38156)

Also now up on PADX: PADX

This isn't gonna last. If it does, I doubt it proliferates. They do this too much, they're going to get burned real bad.

EDIT: Actually, yeah. This is a total inverse Ult Evo. You get the same card, but upgraded by fusing onto a free card. You won't see this with 2 paid cards. The only real issue is you lose the ability to reverse and get your REM card back. It's kind of shitty, but it's nothing to panic over. The uses of this system are limited.

DOUBLE EDIT:

Apparently you can reverse these guys and you'll get your REM mat back. Extra nothing to see here. This is just a neat way to do new Ult evos and justify completely changing the base monster/type/etc.
 

Lyrian

Member
This isn't gonna last. If it does, I doubt it proliferates. They do this too much, they're going to get burned real bad.

EDIT: Actually, yeah. This is a total inverse Ult Evo. You get the same card, but upgraded by fusing onto a free card. You won't see this with 2 paid cards. The only real issue is you lose the ability to reverse and get your REM card back. It's kind of shitty, but it's nothing to panic over. The uses of this system are limited.

Yeah, once the clarification came out that the REM card is treated like a skill inheritance, people started calming down a bit.

I'm not so sure that the uses of this are limited. Actually, it is precedent setting. I believe you are correct in stating that the core issue is that the REM cards cannot be permanently lost and can be recovered without penalty. But what is to say somewhere down the road, that an super ultimate of some card requires five other REM cards to be "equipped" to it? Sure, it is reversible at any time, but to obtain the evo requires benching 5 cards to achieve and maintain.

Outside of the loss of REM cards to the player, that would be essentially be functionally the same as what GungHo tried to achieve with A.Ceres back when awokens were first announced.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Wait i thought there was a Law preventing them to use REM cards as evo materials for other cards ?

Edit:

Okay nevermind. This makes more sense.
 

yami4ct

Member
Yeah, once the clarification came out that the REM card is treated like a skill inheritance, people started calming down a bit.

I'm not so sure that the uses of this are limited. Actually, it is precedent setting. I believe you are correct in stating that the core issue is that the REM cards cannot be permanently lost and can be recovered without penalty. But what is to say somewhere down the road, that an super ultimate of some card requires five other REM cards to be "equipped" to it? Sure, it is reversible at any time, but to obtain the evo requires benching 5 cards to achieve and maintain.

Outside of the loss of REM cards to the player, that would be essentially be functionally the same as what GungHo tried to achieve with A.Ceres back when awokens were first announced.

Actually, reading the tweet again, right now you can't reverse the new Ult Evo., but they will try to implement it in a future update. Seems like a bad thing to launch without having every feature in place. I'm not really that worried about it, but it seems a bit of a mess still.

I don't think they could legally do the same thing with a REM card equipped to another REM card due to Gatcha laws. Multiple REMs equipped to a free card seems possible, but I don't think they'll go that way.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Just saw the cards..holy ..hope we get them as well - this Bastet version sounds nuts.
 

yami4ct

Member
Just saw the cards..holy ..hope we get them as well - this Bastet version sounds nuts.

Well, since we never got PAD Collabs for stuff we didn't go over here like PAD Battle Tournament, they aren't a sure bet. Maybe if the anime gets a subbed release on Crunchyroll or something?

Until the guys actually follow through the 'reverse and get REM cards back' update promise, I'm a tad bit nervous about these guys.

If you believe YamaP, and grain of salt of course, the only reason they're doing this is because he thought Ace getting these cards as 'armor' was cool. Not necessarily something they're planning to do on a large scale. Just a thing to match a specific anime gimmick.
 

ZeroAKA

Member
I don't understand. Why can't they just give Bastet and Horus split UVOs with Ace as the evo material instead of the other way around?
 

yami4ct

Member
I don't understand. Why can't they just give Bastet and Horus split UVOs with Ace as the evo material instead of the other way around?

Because YamaP thought Ace getting monster armor was a cool gimmick. That actually seems to be the whole reason. It's just a silly gimmick.

I'm guessing this thing is straight from the Anime as well.
 

Lyrian

Member
Actually, reading the tweet again, right now you can't reverse the new Ult Evo., but they will try to implement it in a future update. Seems like a bad thing to launch without having every feature in place. I'm not really that worried about it, but it seems a bit of a mess still.

I don't think they could legally do the same thing with a REM card equipped to another REM card due to Gatcha laws. Multiple REMs equipped to a free card seems possible, but I don't think they'll go that way.

I am so /facepalming over that second tweet.

So... maybe... in 9.3 (or later) the functionality for equipping a card for an evo will occur. But, said functionality will not be available when the collab surely launches. Ace will permanently consume Horus or Bastet, at least at first. How do you **not** plan for such an eventuality?

I don't think YamaP has enough aspirin in all of Japan to get rid of the migraine he must have currently.
 

yami4ct

Member
I am so /facepalming over that second tweet.

So... maybe... in 9.3 (or later) the functionality for equipping a card for an evo will occur. But, said functionality will not be available when the collab surely launches. Ace will permanently consume Horus or Bastet, at least at first.

I don't think YamaP has enough aspirin in all of Japan to get rid of the migraine he must have currently.

I mean, if his reasoning is correct, he caused his own headache. The collab of course has to launch when it launches. If they couldn't get the reverse armor update feature in time, they could have announced the cards now for the later date. Or he could have just given up the 'it's so cool for armor' reasoning and made the REM cards the base.
 

Bladelaw

Member
Kicking myself [e]for selling a[e] dupe Bastet. oh well. I have enough teams to keep me rolling and I do have a Horus doing a whole lot of nothing.
 

yami4ct

Member
Yep. That getting flipped was the inevitable outcome.

I get the thought behind the 'mats are armor' idea and it is a cool concept, but implementing it for REM cards without a reverse being in place yet was just pure dumbness.
 

Bladelaw

Member
The struggle of finding box space while farming skillups but not wanting to burn them until 2x/3x.

Soon Aamir...

Looks like Group E tans will be at a doable hour for me. I have a push button A. Ra team so it's more a matter of how many stones do I really want to throw at this.

I'll need to see if I can drop Orochi from my Rukia team.

I'm looking at needing something like 20 tans divided by pretty much every color.
4 dark (Ichigo on D. Kali)
2 light + 2 Fire (A. Ra on D. Kali #2)
2 blue + 2 green (Orochi on Isis/Muse?)
Either 4 more dark (Sheen) or another set of blue/greens (Muse)

I'm not sure if Indra stays on the team or gets equipped on his replacement.
Ichigo and A. Ra are the only absolutes so as long as I get the Dark/Light/Fire tans I need I won't sweat it too much.
 

yami4ct

Member
I'm trying to decide between holding stones for the PCGF and Tans. I know at a bare minimum I want 2 light, 2 green, 2 blue, and 2 red, but I'd also like to pick up 2 more light and 2 more red for Ra if possible. The 2 Dark/2 Red for D. Kali would be nice, but I know for sure Tans will be around before I get that ready.

It kind of seems like the Tan guerrilla is more common than Tama infestation in Japan. I hope the US gets a similarly good treatment.
 

Lyrian

Member
I'm trying to decide between holding stones for the PCGF and Tans. I know at a bare minimum I want 2 light, 2 green, 2 blue, and 2 red, but I'd also like to pick up 2 more light and 2 more red for Ra if possible. The 2 Dark/2 Red for D. Kali would be nice, but I know for sure Tans will be around before I get that ready.

It kind of seems like the Tan guerrilla is more common than Tama infestation in Japan. I hope the US gets a similarly good treatment.

From the EU GungHo Facebook event page, Tans will show up today (the 26th), Sunday the 29th, Thursday the 2nd, and Saturday the 4th. No need to throws stones at tans unless your really need them today that badly.
 

Lyrian

Member
Yep. That getting flipped was the inevitable outcome.

I get the thought behind the 'mats are armor' idea and it is a cool concept, but implementing it for REM cards without a reverse being in place yet was just pure dumbness.

Completely agree. The idea was ill thought out. I could see the argument about pushing the collab early if it was someone else's property. However, PADX is GungHo's IP, which makes this borderline cringeworthy.

If I am reading correctly, the Bastet/Horus PADX evos are now being considered to be super ultimates, similar to Pandora/Sakuya.
 

Lyrian

Member
Next event page is up on EU.

Is it bad when 3x/3x plus 10x descends with nothing else of note starts to look lukewarm?

-- Usual event bonuses: tamadras in Satan, 20x legendaries, 2x EXP normals at various times, 2x XP experience of a biweekly, etc. Nothing special here.

-- Two old collabs permanently retired to coins: (GungHo Collab and ECO Collab)

-- Challenge Dungeons 25
-- Weekend event new descend: Shuten-doji
-- All pys available in MP shop
-- All MP dragons available in MP shop


I love the trend where GungHo is intentionally pushing PreDra Infestation to only be available during off-event days. As posted above, Tans come by every 2nd or third day, so unless you have to skill inherit right this second, there will be ample opportunity to farm them this week.
 

hermit7

Member
I am pleased to see 10x come back. I may actually farm it a bit this time. Get everything done for Orchid and have a mule ready.

May try and get valen done too. Any decent targets for skill inherits for Orchid as a team?
 

Bladelaw

Member
Hearing that Tans are going to be around a few times in the coming weeks is good news. I'll hold off since I don't need to inherit right now.

Yamato, Urd, Cao Cao, and Sanada would all be real nice on an Orchid team.

10x would be lovely. I really need to focus and just hyper a full team. Right now I'm at 2/5 on 5 teams. Rukia, Yomidra, Pandora, AALuci, and Ra Dragon. Out of those teams Ra Dragon seems like the obvious choice but until I get Isis I'm having trouble committing to the team. Pandora and AALuci have both proven to be real strong in slightly different areas but all the overlap is currently hypered.

Out of those teams which is best for farming rogue dungeons (Scarlet/Z8)? Ultimate God Rush?
 

hermit7

Member
Hearing that Tans are going to be around a few times in the coming weeks is good news. I'll hold off since I don't need to inherit right now.

Yamato, Urd, Cao Cao, and Sanada would all be real nice on an Orchid team.

10x would be lovely. I really need to focus and just hyper a full team. Right now I'm at 2/5 on 5 teams. Rukia, Yomidra, Pandora, AALuci, and Ra Dragon. Out of those teams Ra Dragon seems like the obvious choice but until I get Isis I'm having trouble committing to the team. Pandora and AALuci have both proven to be real strong in slightly different areas but all the overlap is currently hypered.

Out of those teams which is best for farming rogue dungeons (Scarlet/Z8)? Ultimate God Rush?

Luci and Pandora are both good for God rush. Pandora is better for at the very least scarlet because of her active skill being better. (2x Pandora is much better than 2x a. Luci)

Zaerog is hard to say. His resistance to Dark makes him a little challenging to evaluate. ( I have only ever done it with Bastet by making the combos). I think if you could inherit a skill it would be ok and stall through the skill delay.
 

Bladelaw

Member
Luci and Pandora are both good for God rush. Pandora is better for at the very least scarlet because of her active skill being better. (2x Pandora is much better than 2x a. Luci)

Zaerog is hard to say. His resistance to Dark makes him a little challenging to evaluate. ( I have only ever done it with Bastet by making the combos). I think if you could inherit a skill it would be ok and stall through the skill delay.

I've had success vs Z8 with Rukia but my clear rate isn't where I want it (totally on me getting better though). I've seen a few spots where having a max skilled Z8 would be useful over a different utility sub but it's not vital.

Being able to reliably clear Myth+ Ultimate God Rush would be great because I'd really like to max skill Elia without burning ALL the pys.
 
I've had success vs Z8 with Rukia but my clear rate isn't where I want it (totally on me getting better though). I've seen a few spots where having a max skilled Z8 would be useful over a different utility sub but it's not vital.

Being able to reliably clear Myth+ Ultimate God Rush would be great because I'd really like to max skill Elia without burning ALL the pys.

Are you looking in to Mech Zeus or Mech Hera? Or do you want to do them solo? I think my next team build will be getting my Sephiroth ready to beat Mech Zeus, then making a M. Zeus team that I can use to farm MP in co-op. People are grinding that now, to the point where they can buy MP dragons.
 

hermit7

Member
I've had success vs Z8 with Rukia but my clear rate isn't where I want it (totally on me getting better though). I've seen a few spots where having a max skilled Z8 would be useful over a different utility sub but it's not vital.

Being able to reliably clear Myth+ Ultimate God Rush would be great because I'd really like to max skill Elia without burning ALL the pys.

I ran myth plus with pandora/ luci/ valk/ bikinidora/ zuoh/ panda and it is easily done solo. Take your time and know health thresholds and you'll be good to go.
 

Bladelaw

Member
Are you looking in to Mech Zeus or Mech Hera? Or do you want to do them solo? I think my next team build will be getting my Sephiroth ready to beat Mech Zeus, then making a M. Zeus team that I can use to farm MP in co-op. People are grinding that now, to the point where they can buy MP dragons.

I am, I'm slowly pulling together the evo mats for both of them. At the moment I have both the 5 mechdragons, and Hysferszen. I need to pull together another and 2 Sherospada to be able to evo both but I was planning on getting Zeus first to use against Hera.
 

b33r

Member
cards with skill transfers have white borders - someone put draco summoning circle on Shivadra.

odd choice.

That is a really odd choice. It creates a great board for him, but that's a 24 CD even with both max skilled. Even if you used friend Shiva Dragon and had another couple hastes on the team, that is still 20. Doesn't seem very useful.

Edit: I just checked my friend list out of curiosity. Only two people had skills inherited. One was a Rodin with draco summoning circle. Rodin had no skill ups and Ronia had one, it had a 38 CD. Why?
 

mike23

Member
That is a really odd choice. It creates a great board for him, but that's a 24 CD even with both max skilled. Even if you used friend Shiva Dragon and had another couple hastes on the team, that is still 20. Doesn't seem very useful.

Edit: I just checked my friend list out of curiosity. Only two people had skills inherited. One was a Rodin with draco summoning circle. Rodin had no skill ups and Ronia had one, it had a 38 CD. Why?

It works as a great skill delay resist. Not sure why they would spend 100k MP to do that right now though.
 

b33r

Member
It works as a great skill delay resist. Not sure why they would spend 100k MP to do that right now though.

I suppose that is true, but I'm sure there is a monster that sells for less that could be used. And yeah you could but quite a few SDR with 100k mp.
 
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