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[DeaviL]

It is a bit naive to think Americans are not incapable of things like this. There was one party that actually had signs that read "Will mow lawn for weed + beer" in Penn State. I'm pretty sure smoking weed isn't part of our culture, some people in this thread addressed that ponchos aren't really a part of our culture either. I can guarantee you mustaches aren't an essential part of our culture. Sure, sombreros are still used. But I hope you can understand how someone can feel bad that their culture has been relegated to a few bullet points, with only one barely illustrating the reality of Mexicans.

Every culture is relegated to a few bullet points, it's when things like the dirt comes in that it gets really offensive.

What do you know about
Belgians? Fries and beer
Americans? Fastfood and overweight
Russians? Alcohol
Indians? Tech-support

Edit: The lawn mowing sign is pretty bad yeah.

 

[Thorakai]

Why do you let it bother you and not just laugh at them for being stupid?

Because at some point you get tired of laughing it off all the time? I think a person can have at least one time to vent on an internet forum, especially since it forces us to discuss the issue and maybe get some people to change their minds about the offensiveness of this party.

 

[Retro_]

You don't see the hypocrisy there?

I am not arguing your point about the party, but your post directly contradicts the point you were trying to make by generalizing and using a hateful tone specifically towards white people.

There's no hate or hypocrisy behind what I'm saying. You'd be able to see that if you weren't so dead set on being a pedant.

I think if we just removed that kind of talk from threads like this, the conversation would be a little less heated, and maybe see some progression.

Progress would be made if people could discuss the talking points instead of getting caught up criticizing language and making meaningless comparisons.

Like you don't want to have a discussion at this point. You clearly just want me to be punished for using the word "white person". You have yet to address the main idea within any of my posts.

This is fucking stupid, and just shows how ignorant you are. In many areas of the world, the majority of people aren't white, believe it or not. So yes, white people can experience racism as well. I have lived many years in Asian countries, so I would know.

I don't think anyone who has experienced real racism or prejudice can hold the view points I'm criticizing. I don't know what you experienced in your life, but if after experiencing it you're left unable to empathize with what's wrong with the OP or what I'm saying then I'm inclined to believe it wasn't that bad. (Racism is more than some people giving you dirty looks.)

 

[DarthWoo]

I was once shopping in this little Indian grocery store near me when I saw these two young black kids wander in. They were clearly not interested in buying anything, but worse, I heard them making jokes about one of the owners (perhaps a Sikh, as he wore a full beard and turban) being Osama bin Laden (out of his earshot). I suppose I ought to have told them off, but I didn't feel like making a scene.

 

[la flama blanca]

This thread isn't getting any where because of posts like this. This is what I mean by mental gymnastics. Threads like this will always be "heated" especially when people post crap like "I don't see why this is racists if this was a white people party I wouldn't have a problem". Comments like that not only demonstrates ones own ignorance but it arrogantly dismisses the experiences of others as well as holds ones own world view ahead of them. It's not conducive to any kind of discussion. The fact that you're hung up on him saying "arrogant white people" says a lot.

+1
This thread just exposes people so much.

 

[Shamrock7r]

This thread isn't getting any where because of posts like this. This is what I mean by mental gymnastics. Threads like this will always be "heated" especially when people post crap like "I don't see why this is racists if this was a white people party I wouldn't have a problem". Comments like that not only demonstrates ones own ignorance but it arrogantly dismisses the experiences of others as well as holds ones own world view ahead of them. It's not conducive to any kind of discussion. The fact that you're hung up on him saying "arrogant white people" says a lot.

That I'd like all posters to be treated respectfully and fairly in these threads?

Again, if someone is arguing against one thing in a sentence, and in another hypocritically doing the exact thing they just argued against, then that is worth pointing out, because THAT is not conductive to any meaningful discussion. You can't tell me that allowing users to point out the prejudice of others while ignoring their own in their very post is somehow me getting "hung up".

Again, I ask you, would you have a problem with someone in the thread muttering out this sentence...

Arrogant fucking black people who can't see passed their goddamn noses telling everyone to fucking lighten up.

 

[SteveWinwood]

It would not be a fun party. There would only be lutefisk and watery coffee. No one would stand too close, and the only sounds would be small talk about the weather.

This is... pretty accurate.

 

[hipbabboom]

I'm always floored by how oblivious people are to racism and bigotry. If racism were a food, these people's taste buds would be weak and incapable of tasting anything besides the heaviest flavors; bland and subtle dishes would be completely indistinguishable.

I wander if people just associate the dogs, fire hose, marches, sit-ins, lunching,and other similar imagery found in text books as what racism is?

 

[Shamrock7r]

There's no hate or hypocrisy behind what I'm saying. You'd be able to see that if you weren't so dead set on being a pedant.

Progress would be made if people could discuss the talking points instead of getting caught up criticizing language and making meaningless comparisons.

Like you don't want to have a discussion at this point. You clearly just want me to be punished for using the word "white person". You have yet to address the main idea within any of my posts.

Like any racial thread on here, discussion becomes multi-layered. There are already plenty of people debating about the party itself. Obviously how I chose to respond to your post branches off a little, but it's something that's important to point out. I am not calling you out for using the term "white person". I am calling you out for using the term "arrogant fucking white people" and then throwing a generalization in for good measure.

 

[Kajigger]

It's all in good fun

 

[Thorakai]

Every culture is relegated to a few bullet points, it's when things like the dirt comes in that it gets really offensive.

What do you know about
Belgians? Fries and beer
Americans? Fastfood and overweight
Russians? Alcohol
Indians? Tech-support

First off no, that is what you know about those cultures. I don't associate the same words with those same cultures. Regardless, I see the point you are attempting to make. I can't know everything about all cultures so I inevitably miss many details. Of course. That doesn't mean that I act on my ignorance and throw a party based on these bullet points that I know. Or try and justify myself as "having fun" when someone calls me out for doing something stupid.

I hope you aren't trying to make an argument akin to saying: all cultures are relegated to a few bullet points, so you shouldn't get upset when people throw a party based on them. It makes it sound like it is perfectly fine to simplify people's view of cultures to one or two words. I don't think that is right. I'm sure you don't either. Saying that something happens all the time doesn't do much to change the problem. If you want to throw a Mexican themed party, maybe put forth the effort to learn more about the culture. It would make the party that much better. You can't capture all the nuances of being Mexican in a single party, but lets not pretend a sombrero, poncho, and mustache counts as a sincere effort to represent Mexicans.

 

[Retro_]

Like any racial thread on here, discussion becomes multi-layered. There are already plenty of people debating about the party itself. Obviously how I chose to respond to your post branches off a little, but it's something that's important to point out. I am not calling you out for using the term "white person". I am calling you out for using the term "arrogant fucking white people" and then throwing a generalization in for good measure.

No you clearly have a problem with me using white at all. That's why you only change white to black and are trying to get a reaction out of me that way.

You're not presenting any sort of context for which someone would use my words with black in place of white, nor are you even paying attention to the context in which I originally used the sentence.

You're just changing the one word and going "SEE HOW IT FEELS! NOT GOOD HUH??" like you're making a point.

 

[Orayn]

It's all in good fun

This is the defense I'm going to use when people get upset at my upcoming one-man minstrel show. Just gonna tell 'em that I live in a post-racial world and they're the real racists for criticizing my use of blackface.

 

[Retro_]

This is the defense I'm going to use when people get upset at my upcoming one-man minstrel show. Just gonna tell 'em that I live in a post-racial world and they're the real racists for criticizing my use of blackface.

Gotta have the whole line up

"I didn't mean any harm by it"

"I guess everything's racist nowadays!"

"I wouldn't get mad if you threw a white people party"

"I'M NOT RACIST HONEST PLEASE BELIEVE ME"

 

[Infinite]

That I'd like all posters to be treated respectfully and fairly in these threads?

Again, if someone is arguing against one thing in a sentence, and in another hypocritically doing the exact thing they just argued against, then that is worth pointing out, because THAT is not conductive to any meaningful discussion. You can't tell me that allowing users to point out the prejudice of others while ignoring their own in their very post is somehow me getting "hung up".

Again, I ask you, would you have a problem with someone in the thread muttering out this sentence...

So what you're saying is that you're mad at his post because he said white people. Like you're not even arguing the anything else aside from that.

 

[Swarna]

This thread isn't getting any where because of posts like this. This is what I mean by mental gymnastics. Threads like this will always be "heated" especially when people post crap like "I don't see why this is racists if this was a white people party I wouldn't have a problem". Comments like that not only demonstrates ones own ignorance but it arrogantly dismisses the experiences of others as well as holds ones own world view ahead of them. It's not conducive to any kind of discussion.

I agree.

The fact that you're hung up on him saying "arrogant white people" says a lot.

He has a right to be, though, as you're doing exactly what you said should be avoided. You and retro are making the point that just because something doesn't bother someone that it's not the case for someone else based on different experiences. I agree with this but it is hypocritical to stereotype something else while you're making the point (white arrogance in this case) and be apathetic when having it pointed out.

Edit: On-topic: That dumb broad with the dirt comment is the only thing that immediately rustled my jimmies. I'm not so sure everyone had the same mindset as her at that party and I believe that context, attitudes, and dialogues matter to a great degree. Based on just the OP alone it seems like just harmless culturally-themed party, though, OP might have been seeing other things he can't really put in words going on there. I can't say for sure without having been there. I'm speaking as a Canadian of Indian ancestry.

 

[Shamrock7r]

No you clearly have a problem with me using white at all. That's why you only change white to black and are trying to get a reaction out of me that way.

You're not presenting any sort of context for which someone would use my words with black in place of white, nor are you even paying attention to the context in which I originally used the sentence.

You're just changing the one word and going "SEE HOW IT FEELS! NOT GOOD HUH??" like you're making a point.

So it's all about context? If so, are you telling me that if someone made a serious post that included "arrogant fucking black people", that there is a certain context it can be used in that you would be ok with?

So what you're saying is that you're mad at his post because he said white people.

Why do you continue to leave out "arrogant fucking white people"?
I mean... I don't know how much clearer I can make it for you two. I've said it as clear as I can and you both continue to ignore it so there is no point in continuing to even argue it. I will just agree to move on.

 

[Infinite]

I agree.He has a right to be, though, as you're doing exactly what you said should be avoided. You and retro are making the point that just because something doesn't bother someone that it's not the case for someone else based on different experiences. I agree with this but it is hypocritical to stereotype something else while you're making the point (white arrogance in this case) and be apathetic when having it pointed out.

I'm not following you. Since when is white people a stereotype?

 

[Retro_]

So it's all about context? If so, are you telling me that if someone made a serious post that included "arrogant fucking black people", that there is a certain context it can be used in that you would be ok with?

I don't know. Try it and let's find out!

I mean... I don't know how much clearer I can make it for you two. I've said it as clear as I can and you both continue to ignore it so there is no point in continuing to even argue it so I will just agree to move on.

Great! Now you can finally respond to the actual ideas I was posting

Or I guess you could just leave the thread with this false sense of victory.(you're probably going to go with this one huh?)

 

[Darkmakaimura]

"because Mexicans are dirty!"

Probably the only part I find actually racist.

This month a lot of people in America are going to pretend to be Irish.

 

[FinalStageBoss]

Because mexicans are ditry..

How the fuck is that NOT racist?

Fucking gaf defense out in full force, I'm out.

 

[Retro_]

I'm not following you. Since when is white people a stereotype?

If it is one that wasn't my intention

I meant "arrogant white people" in the most literal sense. The posts I quoted identified as white(or one of them did) and exhibited extreme levels of arrogance and indifference towards this topic.

I wasn't trying to apply any stereotypes, just identifying and criticizing a common mentality I see employed by white people towards topics of racism.

 

[Infinite]

If it is one that wasn't my intention

I meant "arrogant white people" in the most literal sense. The posts I quoted identified as white(or one of them did) and exhibited extreme levels of arrogance and indifference towards this topic

No need to explain that to me I knew exactly what you meant when you said what you said.

 

[Retro_]

No need to explain that to me I knew exactly what you meant when you said what you said.

Yeah I was more speaking towards everyone else than you. I just felt your post was a good vehicle to mount my explanation on. (The idea of "white stereotypes")

 

[Pluto]

Again, I ask you, would you have a problem with someone in the thread muttering out this sentence...

I wouldn't if the black people he addressed were in fact acting fucking arrogant.
As I understood it he din't refer to all white people, he was talking about "arrogant fucking white people", i.e. a subgroup who acts like that, it was a little bit harsh but I thought it was just used to describe their behavior as he sees it.

I don't even understand why some people argue that this isn't racist, "mexicans are dirty" is so obviously racist that I didn't think it would be possible to find excuses for it.

However, I don't think using sombreros or fake mustaches is necessarily racist. If you want to dress up as a member of a different nationality for a themed party you kinda have to resort to stereotypes. Otherwise you could wear the same pair of jeans and a shirt all the time.

 

[Kreed]

Again, I ask you, would you have a problem with someone in the thread muttering out this sentence...

Statements like these, along with the "if someone had a white party I wouldn't be offended/why can't we have a White history month", etc... assume all ethnic/minority/gender/sexuality/etc... groups are equal and unfortunately they are not, especially when you take into consideration past/current acts of discrimination done by other more powerful groups that are less likely to be offended simply from being in that position.

 

[mullet2000]

Because mexicans are ditry..

How the fuck is that NOT racist?

Fucking gaf defense out in full force, I'm out.

I think the whole "gaf defense force for everything, FUCK" is getting a bit overplayed here. (sorry to single you out for this, you aren't the only one saying that.)

In the first few pages a guy is really getting railed for saying this isn't racist, but ignorant. While he doesn't word himself very well, I think there's a point hidden away in there somewhere.

Essentially that there is "ignorant racism," like what likely happened in OP's story. And "active racism" which speaks for itself, actively being hateful.

Let me be perfectly clear: Both are racism and both are highly problematic. But I hesitate to call them the same thing.

Ignorant racism is...well, ignorant. People dress up like Mexicans with dirty on their face and think it's funny and whatever, but this is coming from lack of education, a secluded environment, etc. This is still racism, is a big problem (bigger than active hate, I'd venture to say), and should be called as such. But I think this type of person absolutely could be shown what they're doing is problematic and be "fixed" fairly easily. I think there are a lot of otherwise good people (or dumb teenagers) that can fit in this category, don't harbour hate, and are honestly just completely ignorant about what they are doing. Again, make no mistake. This is racism and should be dealt with as racism. These people should be told they are racist and educated from the view that they are racist.

Active racism is, of course, people who are hateful, know they are racist and accept it. We all know what I'm talking about with this type of person. This type of person is much less likely to "change." They are not ignorant in the same sense.

I don't really like the "no, racism IS racism, period" train of thought. Or that train with an -ism. I think that level of over-simplifying is...not good (Ph.D level assertion, I know). Anyway, I think this is actually what some people are getting at, but aren't getting the point across very well. I'd urge you (all) not to lump these people in with the "lol this isn't racist at all, white people parties would be fine lel" folk.

 

[Retro_]

However, I don't think using sombreros or fake mustaches is necessarily racist. If you want to dress up as a member of a different nationality for a themed party you kinda have to resort to stereotypes. Otherwise you could wear the same pair of jeans and a shirt all the time.

Now see, in the entire realm of possibility that is costume or theme party ideas, why do you have to be able to dress up as stereotypes of cultures?

Why does this have to be an option in our society?

 

[breakfuss]

Probably the only part I find actually racist.

This month a lot of people in America are going to pretend to be Irish.

I wouldn't equate the two, though if I'm wrong I'd certainly like to be enlightened. Context makes all the difference in the world.

Because mexicans are ditry..

How the fuck is that NOT racist?

Fucking gaf defense out in full force, I'm out.

I believe someone explained earlier that "dirty" doesn't necessarily mean "unclean". Rather it describes one who has been traveling through the desert and may have gathered particles of sand and "dirt" on their person. So, not racist.

 

[MilkLizard]

How would you caricature Norwegians if you were to throw a 'Norwegian party'? Honest question

Vikings maybe. But nobody throws a Norwegian Party anyway.

 

[Timedog]

Many people are much angrier at minorities being able to say "white people, lol" without backlash than they are at the type of racism that is actually crippling to broad swaths of society.

If you spend far more time getting upset over minorities saying something that whites wouldn't be able to get away with, than racism that actually hurts peoples place in society (which is the vast, vast majority of the people that get so upset over such things ), YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.

No, seriously, YOU ARE THE FACE OF RACISM. The white supremacist types are few and far between. You should probably take a good, hard look in the mirror, objectively analyze your thoughts and motivations, do some critical thinking. Or don't. But a constant stream of rationalizations isn't going to change what you really are.

 

[Swarna]

If it is one that wasn't my intention

I meant "arrogant white people" in the most literal sense. The posts I quoted identified as white(or one of them did) and exhibited extreme levels of arrogance and indifference towards this topic.

I wasn't trying to apply any stereotypes, just identifying and criticizing a common mentality I see employed by white people towards topics of racism.

Bro, I'm not trying to knock you, but there's a lot of irony in this. Here we have a group of college kids that may be generalizing Mexican culture with "no intention to offend anyone". People ITT got offended. Other people ITT are downplaying their offense. You call out two posters on their arrogance as "a common mentality I see employed by white people towards topics of racism." One guy may or not be white, and we don't know about the other one. Someone got offended by you, and now you were just downplaying that. Look, I agree with your original point but these things need to be pointed out.

 

[EdibleKnife]

I believe someone explained earlier that "dirty" doesn't necessarily mean "unclean". Rather it describes one who has been traveling through the desert and may have gathered particles of sand and "dirt" on their person. So, not racist.

Oh yeah right, I bet that's what the girl the OP mentioned was really getting at. How "dirty" is her phrasing for desert dwellers. In a pig's eye that's what she meant. I'm sorry but give me a freaking break.

 

[Pluto]

Now see, in the entire realm of possibility that is costume or theme party ideas, why do you have to be able to dress up as stereotypes of cultures?

I just don't think every stereotype is hateful or bad, that's why people should be able to use them depending on the context. A sombrero is a cheap and easy way to dress up as a mexican, it's not smart or educated or even necessary but it's also not a big deal. If people just grab a sombrero I'd think of them as uneducated and lazy but not as racist.

 

[Infinite]

I just don't think every stereotype is hateful or bad, that's why people should be able to use them depending on the context. A sombrero is a cheap and easy way to dress up as a mexican, it's not smart or educated or even necessary but it's also not a big deal. If people just grab a sombrero I'd think of them as uneducated and lazy but not as racist.

Whys do you need to dress up as a Mexican to have a Mexican themed party? Also why does dressing up as a Mexican person comes down to outdated stereotypes? Lastly why would you be surprised if anyone sees this as a mockery of Mexican people and racists?

 

[TCRS]

Oh yeah right, I bet that's what the girl the OP mentioned was really getting at. How "dirty" is her phrasing for desert dwellers. In a pig's eye that's what she meant. I'm sorry but give me a freaking break.

They were Norwegians so I'm guessing english isn't their first language, so it might very well be. As I have said before, images of mexicans, americans and native americans in Europe are often derived from old western movies and stories and I'm guessing that's what their costumes were based on. Dressing up like mexicans, indians etc. is perfectly normal here, that sort of party wouldn't even be an issue. Doing that in america and being ignorant to the sensitive nature of race relations over there was however stupid.

Every country has its own taboos. Dressing up like an orthodox Jew in Germany is for example a no-go as you can very well imagine.

 

[rexor0717]

Whats being described in the OP is definitely racist. I don't think there is anything wrong with a Mexico themed party. When you start dressing as caricatures of some ethnicity then things get a little dicey. Then you start incorporating negative stereotypes into those costumes, and now its racist. Have tequila and tacos? Sure. Wear a sombrero, why not? Put dirt on your face? No, stop.

 

[Retro_]

Bro, I'm not trying to knock you, but there's a lot of irony in this. Here we have a group of college kids that may be generalizing Mexican culture with "no intention to offend anyone". People ITT got offended. Other people ITT are downplaying their offense. You call out two posters on their arrogance as "a common mentality I see employed by white people towards topics of racism." One guy may or not be white, and we don't know about the other one. Someone got offended by you, and now you were just downplaying that. Look, I agree with your original point but these things need to be pointed out.

I just don't get this perspective at all. In one case people are legitimately defending playing up ignorant stereotypes for laughs. In my case I'm responding to specific examples of a common mentality I observe in race threads exhibited by the majority in response to cases like this, where race and culture are played up for laughs by the majority. The first example is in response to an initial unprovoked action. I'm just responding to what I see in the wake of that

I mean yeah I can understand people getting mad at my language, but I don't see how the actual content of my post is equivalent at all to what I'm criticizing on any level.

As an example, it's like claiming that black people who lived through segregation and hold a resentment towards white people as a result are as equally racist as the white people that imposed those racist laws on them to begin with. Even if you define both as racism,(I wouldn't) at least you can acknowledge that the initial racism of the majority is not the same as the reactionary racism of the minority.

and that's what I'm doing here. Responding to racism and identifying it. I don't see how that can be labeled racism just because I'm identifying common racist ideas among white people.

 

[Omega]

Why is it okay to take a dump on Hispanics?

because we don't matter.

 

[The Adder]

I just don't get this perspective at all. In one case people are legitimately defending playing up ignorant stereotypes for laughs. In my case I'm responding to specific examples of a common mentality I observe in race threads exhibited by the majority in response to cases like this, where race and culture are played up for laughs by the majority. The first example is in response to an initial unprovoked action. I'm just responding to what I see in the wake of that

I mean yeah I can understand people getting mad at my language, but I don't see how the actual content of my post is equivalent at all to what I'm criticizing on any level.

As an example, it's like claiming that black people who lived through segregation and hold a resentment towards white people as a result are as equally racist as the white people that imposed those racist laws on them to begin with. Even if you define both as racism,(I wouldn't) at least you can acknowledge that the initial racism of the majority is not the same as the reactionary racism of the minority.

and that's what I'm doing here. Responding to racism and identifying it. I don't see how that can be labeled racism just because I'm identifying common racist ideas among white people.

Don't you realize that people who point out racism are the only real racists?

 

[Retro_]

Only one of the people you quoted identified themselves as white. Nothing Raiden said identicated that he/she was white. Why did you think that Raiden was white? Or for that matter, nothing in the OP suggested that the people in the store were white either.

What if I told you I was white?

Don't you realize that people who point out racism are the only real racists?

I don't see color. I make fun of everyone equally HYUCK HYUCK HYUCK

 

[Rawket Lawnchair]

I don't know, I wouldn't consider it racist, but that's just me.

For me, racism is synonymous with consciously attacking/degrading a specific culture and people of that culture (for your own reasons), and not with having a themed party armed with your ignorance, your happy mood, and your broken English.

 

[Infinite]

I don't know, I wouldn't consider it racist, but that's just me.

For me, racism is synonymous with consciously attacking/degrading a specific culture and people of that culture (for your own reasons), and not with having a themed party armed with your ignorance, your happy mood, and your broken English.

Your definition of racism is shallow.

 

[Retro_]

I don't know, I wouldn't consider it racist, but that's just me.

For me, racism is synonymous with consciously attacking/degrading a specific culture and people of that culture (for your own reasons), and not with having a themed party armed with your ignorance, your happy mood, and your broken English.

I think most people in America would agree with you.

and I think that's one of the biggest problems with America regarding race.

Most people don't really understand the causality behind their actions. That their isolated instance of "good fun" can be indirectly contributing to or be representative of a much larger problem than themselves.

Worst part is that most people aren't trying to hear all that, if this thread is any example. lol

 

[Rawket Lawnchair]

Your definition of racism is shallow.

Yeah, well, I don't pretend to have a PhD on racism.

 

[Ponn]

Watched Planes last night and was wondering if people found the character Chupacabra racist because of the stereotype. For that matter Nacho Libre. If people do find these stereotypes racist though how do they feel about Mexican actors and wrestlers reinforcing these stereotypes?

 

[FortuneFaded]

What if I told you I was white?

I have no strong feelings one way or the other.

 

[mr2xxx]

I don't know, I wouldn't consider it racist, but that's just me.

For me, racism is synonymous with consciously attacking/degrading a specific culture and people of that culture (for your own reasons), and not with having a themed party armed with your ignorance, your happy mood, and your broken English.

Didn't even read the OP but here you are giving us your two cents on why we shouldn't be offended. Unless you don't think referring to a whole group of people as dirty is degrading lol.

 

[Retro_]

Yeah, well, I don't pretend to have a PhD on racism.

You don't need one to be able to think, even for a second about how your actions could be perceived by people outside of your small little world.(In this case, actual hispanic people/mexicans)

 

[Infinite]

Yeah, well, I don't pretend to have a PhD on racism.

It doesn't take a PhD to understand that intent =! impact. This is why I call your definition of it shallow because it defines the behavior based on intent alone.