Raphael Colantonio (Arkane Co-Founder) "Why is no-one talking about the elephant in the room? Cough cough (Gamepass)"
asdasdasdbb
Member
GP isn't the problem. Day 1 is the problem.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
Imagine being upset as a consumer for getting too good of a deal on games.
Won't somebody think of the business profits and bonuses?
Won't somebody think of the business profits and bonuses?
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owandeseis
Member
But Doom released on PS5 and it flopped there too, and on Steam (where many GP games still sell very well)
Microsoft's problem is that they keep releasing totally skippable games, if i had to think the last game i would have bought day 1 if there was no GP... it's not easy, Wasteland 3 maybe?
Now who would have spent 80$ on another Doom that's 10 hours long and has no MP?
Avowed? South of Midnight? Half baked Forza Motorsport with shitty performance, Halo Infinite with a barebones campaign and broken multiplayer? Any of these had a chance to sell decently?
Imagine GP is cancelled tomorrow, who's gonna be there this fall to buy The Outer Worlds 2 for just 80$? Yeah i guessed so
Not just visibility, since they also get paid for their games to be on the service. Some of that payment helps the games get made.
They shuttered studios overnight, laid off a substantial number of developers and canceled projects that were years into development. None of their actions show them getting stuck in the 'sunk cost' mindset.
There's no logic in assuming a customer who likes Gears to suddenly skip Gears E day if GamePass gets canceled.
Gamepass isn't the reason why Perfect Dark's development was a mess. Or why new games from Blizzard, Zenimax online studios and Initiative got canceled.
Horseganador
Member
GP was always a business model destined to fail, but it's too late for any solution; you've accustomed your customers to not paying for games.
Alebrije
Member
GP is Microsofts strategy to Kill Sony , Nintendo, Steam or any other place where You can play videogames.
It could mean 10 years more of bleeding money for Microsft but it seems they won't stop soon. The strategy looks stupid but if they success the rewards wil be so huge that they can get back the money invested on a few years.
It could mean 10 years more of bleeding money for Microsft but it seems they won't stop soon. The strategy looks stupid but if they success the rewards wil be so huge that they can get back the money invested on a few years.
BigLee74
Member
See that etc of yours you threw in there - that accounts for PLENTY of day one games on Gamepass.
MS have been delivering day one content on a regular basis for the past 2 or 3 years now, and a lot of big games too.
You haven't fallen for any bait - theyve given you what the said they would - and will continue to do so as long as Gamepass is a thing.
Kenneth Haight
Gold Member
Hugare
Member
They can hide, fudge AC Shadows number as much as they want, but the truth has to come out on earning reports and it's not good
As far as AC Shadows sale number, 2.4 million sold in 2 months. OUCH!!!!
As far as AC Shadows sale number, 2.4 million sold in 2 months. OUCH!!!!
Every AC game has easily sold more than 8M copies while Shadows is struggling to sell more than 3M months later
Im pretty sure launching it on day one at their subscription service is part of the reason why
And apparently, investors arent happy
I really enjoyed the game, btw
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Kacho
Member
Game Pass only works if there is consistent growth. For Microsoft it's not about quality games, or nurturing developers, it's about having more control over our content and how we consume it. They want to snuff out the traditional games market over time and force everyone under their umbrella. It's good people are rejecting it.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Why are you still protecting MS? These devs more than likely didn't do these deals. We all told you Gamepass was bad for the industry, yet you STILL defend it. Why?
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
If only the sub had older games and less options. Developers not even on GP would be so happy. Hmm.
ancelotti
Member
Now that it's clear PS gamers are willing to pay for premium versions of Game Pass titles, while more platform-agnostic players can pick up the games on PC or through whatever optimized Windows build powers the next Xbox, the strategy makes sense.
It wouldn't surprise me if Microsoft continues a split approach: one Xbox model aimed at mass-market volume, and another positioned to stay competitive with the PS6. They might even partner with companies like Asus to design an uber Xbox Astral, or eventually step back from manufacturing hardware themselves.
From a business perspective, focusing on platform and services rather than hardware seems like their logical next move.
It wouldn't surprise me if Microsoft continues a split approach: one Xbox model aimed at mass-market volume, and another positioned to stay competitive with the PS6. They might even partner with companies like Asus to design an uber Xbox Astral, or eventually step back from manufacturing hardware themselves.
From a business perspective, focusing on platform and services rather than hardware seems like their logical next move.
Sinfulgore
Member
The issue is that gamers have higher standards now, which gamepass and more importantly, the rise in high-quality free-to-play games have created. It's not 2016 anymore so releasing a game like Doom the Dark Ages for full price isn't going to cut it. People here might not agree but to the average gamer, Marvel Rivals is a far superior game than most of the games charging $70. Why would someone pay $70 for a game when they can play better games for free? They won't so they don't. If you want people to buy your game then make one worth buying, the studios that have done so have had success even after being available day 1 on gamepass.
hououinkyouma00
Member
They can't really backtrack at this point though.
This is a very tunnel visioned view.
Guess who controls the studios that make the games you enjoy? Corporations. Who funds these games? Corporations. What allows them to do this? Profit. What is the goal of the majority of businesses on earth? Profit.
Yes, corporations don't care about you that is undeniable. However many people are upset because of how Game Pass changes the gaming landscape for the worse. This "deal" is part of the downfall of the brand you probably hold so dearly.
Valt7786
Member
Ok sure, but the quality has dropped considerably for some of those titles. Especially something like Halo which should have been their big hitter. I dont know what state its in now, but looking at launch, and the craig memes etc.
And, on a personal level, they havent delivered, not yet, not on their day one promises that convinced me at the time.
If GP has been worth it for any of you, fantastic. But it hasnt for me.
Zacfoldor
Member
WE were talking about it! We have talked about it a lot. I'm super hyped to finally see YOU are talking about it, mr. game developer man. Please have more discussions about it publically, because you are absolutely right and fuck gamepass. It's only pro consumer if you don't consider the destruction of the industry anti consumer. Stop devaluing games green and pc bros. You fell for the short cheese like you live game to game paycheck to paycheck with no long term investment in the industry. Think of even the medium term future!
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Never used any of the free subs they offered over the years.
Try my best to not support anti consumer services like this.
They ain't adding me to the inflated numbers!
Try my best to not support anti consumer services like this.
They ain't adding me to the inflated numbers!
AmuroChan
Member
Well, they sort of did by making GP multi-tiered. Only the highest tier gets the day 1 releases now.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
This thread reminded me to re-up another 12 months of Game Pass.
Thanks, Arkane co-founder.
Thanks, Arkane co-founder.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
but the value!!!!!
Finally people are waking the fuck up. Gamepass is a cancer to the hobby we love
Finally people are waking the fuck up. Gamepass is a cancer to the hobby we love
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StreetsofBeige
Member
GP is fine and great for gamers.
As for anyone trying to equate GP with MS firing people, it has little/nothing to do with it because the vast majority studios and games shut down the past week were studios who hadnt released anything in ages (5+ years in dev and nothing but a trailer to show), or released some mediocre games that had meh reviews or lousy sales. if MS had more sales to keep funding, why would anyone keep funding these projects for year 6, 7 or 10? See ya. Some of the studios/games WIP were probably started in the Xbox One X era and all they got is a trailer which is probably a bullshot rendered video anyway. Where all the budget goes who knows.
If GP is to blame for this, then PS+ is to blame for all the Sony GAAS studios and games shut down. And even Bend Studios had a measly 40 people let go too despite Sony's gaming division making $2-3B profit. So they can afford it, but they gas people too. Doesnt make sense does it? They gassed underperforming projects and studios.
Trim the fat of underperformers. That goes for any tech company the past 2 years. For example, SAP fired 10,000 people last year despite being a profitable company for decades.
Some reason for years, a lot of media and tech companies had gone ape shit funding new studios, games, tv shows, movies. A lot clunkers and a lot who still hadnt released anything. So the past year or two, some said fuck it and started cutting as the ROI and quality isnt keeping up with the giant hiring sprees and budgets.
The leash only gets so long before you got to rein it in when the dog goes hog wild.
As for anyone trying to equate GP with MS firing people, it has little/nothing to do with it because the vast majority studios and games shut down the past week were studios who hadnt released anything in ages (5+ years in dev and nothing but a trailer to show), or released some mediocre games that had meh reviews or lousy sales. if MS had more sales to keep funding, why would anyone keep funding these projects for year 6, 7 or 10? See ya. Some of the studios/games WIP were probably started in the Xbox One X era and all they got is a trailer which is probably a bullshot rendered video anyway. Where all the budget goes who knows.
If GP is to blame for this, then PS+ is to blame for all the Sony GAAS studios and games shut down. And even Bend Studios had a measly 40 people let go too despite Sony's gaming division making $2-3B profit. So they can afford it, but they gas people too. Doesnt make sense does it? They gassed underperforming projects and studios.
Trim the fat of underperformers. That goes for any tech company the past 2 years. For example, SAP fired 10,000 people last year despite being a profitable company for decades.
Some reason for years, a lot of media and tech companies had gone ape shit funding new studios, games, tv shows, movies. A lot clunkers and a lot who still hadnt released anything. So the past year or two, some said fuck it and started cutting as the ROI and quality isnt keeping up with the giant hiring sprees and budgets.
The leash only gets so long before you got to rein it in when the dog goes hog wild.
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hououinkyouma00
Member
I'm only chiming in on the Halo part.
It's still pretty shit in comparison to what it could be, but it's better than it was for sure. The campaign is still a boring uninspired mess. The multiplayer is actually pretty good but player numbers aren't very good and sometimes it takes 2-3 minutes to find a match especially on PC (personally I have a easier time finding matches on xbox but it could be different for others).
Overall it's a disappointment but at least it's not full of cheaters like MCC (which ignoring said cheaters is 1000% a better experience online then Infinite).
NeverYouMind
Member
GamePass is not a terrible idea, but it is implemented very strangely. It really should not have Day 1 releases as that is often when demand is highest. It would be fine to have timed demos for new releases to provide a taste of what is on offer, but the whole game Day 1 is definitely bad business. GamePass should really leverage their legacy offerings better as the entry price for those can be a bit steep for anyone that is not an ardent fan. If they did this they would be more akin to a digital GameFly and it would make more sense as the user pool is not big enough for a Netflix strategy.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Gamepass. It was good while it lasted.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Yep, agreed. They went less far crazy out there with the suicidal idea MS had but then again MS was thinking they would be able to kill the business model of the competitors with a scorched earth approach trying to quite intentionally crash the industry to emerge as victors due to their bigger coffers but luckily they executed poorly.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
The alternative is what? Which alternate universe are these guys from where Xbox hardware and software was flying off the shelf pre-GamePass.
StreetsofBeige
Member
IMO, the best way to keep sub plans in a reasonable state of usage is to NOT allow people to do no strings attached one off months. Like the stories you hear of people signing up for a month, plowing through games, then stop. Then repeat when the next hot game comes out in 6 months.
When someone does a cellphone or cable tv plan, it's pretty hard and stupid for anyone doing a temp one month plan because the company will likely charge you activation fees, and/or charge you the price of the cable box (my indie provider charged me $100 to buy out the box since they dont rent them out for a monthly fee). So when you got this much invested in it up front, nobody is going to bail after 3 weeks to test it out. You'll commit and stick around.
But a lot of tech, music, gaming, movie plans allow people to zip in and out when they feel like it with no limits or annoying upfront fees. I remember a recent thread where someone said if you sign up and cancel an Xbox sub plan in the same month they even refund you the monthly fee. Is this true? If so, that's even worse.
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SILKYSMOOTH30FPS
Member
GP not impacting sales. I mean, you honestly need to be a dumb child for this to make sense to you. No way a single adult with a brain would believe this. No way.
Bernardougf
Member
Outside of shills that will eat any ms slop PR this was always obvious. From the get go.
Cyberpunkd
Member
So your issue is not with the business model per se, it's simply that they didn't deliver on what they promised?
asdasdasdbb
Member
What I'd like to see MS do is maybe open up shop in some Low Cost country and do Remasters and straight up ripoffs of other companies games.
Use AI to speed up development and to appease Satya.
Use AI to speed up development and to appease Satya.
SILKYSMOOTH30FPS
Member
As i said in another thread, GP should serve as a service for devs with low budget titles, no marketing budget or AA/AAA games that are 1y old or more. No AAA should ever be on there from day one. It makes no sense to be able to play a $70 title for $10.
AmuroChan
Member
Not just consistent growth, but it has to reach a critical mass of subscribers to enter profitability. If you're only growing by 100K subs a year, that's not nearly enough. Disney+ only just reported its first year of profit in FY2024, and that's by exceeding 100 million subs and scaling back their production pipe line.
I just looked up Ubisoft's share price. It's fucking tanked over the last few years. In 2018 it had risen massively and was worth over 100 euro a share now it's 9 euro.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
Maybe they should block all physical media first. Anyone buying a used game is playing $70 titles while giving them $0. Are all the people super worried about developers ready to end physical media?
Sanepar
Member
The industry didn't colapse because gamers in general didn't embrace the model. But the goal was to destroy everything and make rent the only model. It was pretty obvious.
Since they are done on hw and pc gamers in general don't care about gamepass the model is dead for the sake of this industry.
MS mentality for games is really dangerous because is something like if i can't win I will take everything with me.
Since they are done on hw and pc gamers in general don't care about gamepass the model is dead for the sake of this industry.
MS mentality for games is really dangerous because is something like if i can't win I will take everything with me.
UltimaKilo
Gold Member
Why not? It makes perfect sense given the spending of the average consumer.
Studios complained about the same shit when Netflix began streaming services. The complained for a DECADE that streaming would end the film industry by being a "threat to Theatrical and Traditional Models".
Go look up studio heads bitching about it like Time Warner's former CEO Jeffrey Bewkes saying it would be the death of the industry.
yurinka
Member
A plan to destroy most platforms and studios in the industry isn't pro consumer at all.Yep, this was their very pro consumer goal and some people are more than happy to reach it if it means they get a few years of games at a very low cost… Turkeys do get fed before Thanksgiving too.
A few indie devs mentioned to be happy with the money MS did pay them for putting their game there. Many others -generally not publicly- mentioned specially in more recent times it wasn't worth it and that it was a bad decision that killed or almost killed their studio.
And as player, to ask you to rent games for over $200/year instead of buying them as main platform isn't very pro consumer either, specially if you are a collector.
But as secondary platform, if you just want to rent and play a few games during a month, maybe once per year, and then get rid of them I think is good if you're interested on these games and have enough time for them.
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londontko
Member
Nailed it.
People who defend it likely do it for selfish reasons. For a monthly payment you get access to all Microsoft's games. That's pretty good if you're not concerned with actually owning your games.
I don't think they care if it's bad for the industry or not, and most I've noticed are in denial that it's a money sink.
And of course just plain old fanboyism
CoreyFlawless
Member
To be honest, I really don't understand why so many ppl are passionate to see it fail or succeed. Like shit, just let it do it thing and see. Like idk why so many so invested in it. For sure the ones that don't care for it at all or just want it to fail
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
Damn straight. I can think of many charities more deserving than video game developers. This is my entertainment.
This is a hobby that used to be accessible to children and lower class families. Presenting an optional low cost way to play is only a good thing.
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