Raphael Colantonio (Arkane Co-Founder) "Why is no-one talking about the elephant in the room? Cough cough (Gamepass)"

Gamepass sounds great on paper, especially for the consumer, but yeah of course it eats into sales. We've seen it recently with Doom TDA especially.

But Doom released on PS5 and it flopped there too, and on Steam (where many GP games still sell very well)

Microsoft's problem is that they keep releasing totally skippable games, if i had to think the last game i would have bought day 1 if there was no GP... it's not easy, Wasteland 3 maybe?

Now who would have spent 80$ on another Doom that's 10 hours long and has no MP?

Avowed? South of Midnight? Half baked Forza Motorsport with shitty performance, Halo Infinite with a barebones campaign and broken multiplayer? Any of these had a chance to sell decently?

Imagine GP is cancelled tomorrow, who's gonna be there this fall to buy The Outer Worlds 2 for just 80$? Yeah i guessed so
 
Small indies are actually a different story because the budgets are vastly lower, and most of them are multiplat, so they take the visibility from a GP day 1 inclusion and parlay it into sales on other platforms. But even that is now risky too.

Not just visibility, since they also get paid for their games to be on the service. Some of that payment helps the games get made.


I mean they can't shutter it overnight can they? That would be a massive loss of face (and it would probably completely crater the revenue from the consumers that got used to playing "for free").

They shuttered studios overnight, laid off a substantial number of developers and canceled projects that were years into development. None of their actions show them getting stuck in the 'sunk cost' mindset.

There's no logic in assuming a customer who likes Gears to suddenly skip Gears E day if GamePass gets canceled.

Go ask those thousands of developers who've lost their jobs if gamepass is good for the industry. Stop gaslighting and shilling.

Gamepass isn't the reason why Perfect Dark's development was a mess. Or why new games from Blizzard, Zenimax online studios and Initiative got canceled.
 
Game Pass will eventually die either because Microsoft runs out of money to fund it or because Microsoft raises the Game Pass monthly fees so high that it doesn't make sense to subscribe or simply because nobody owns an Xbox anymore
 
GP is Microsofts strategy to Kill Sony , Nintendo, Steam or any other place where You can play videogames.

It could mean 10 years more of bleeding money for Microsft but it seems they won't stop soon. The strategy looks stupid but if they success the rewards wil be so huge that they can get back the money invested on a few years.
 
Personally, I fell for their bait before Series X came out with their promise of Day one exclusives. New Gears, Fable, Perfect Dark, Halo etc. That sounded great.
Where are they MS? It's been what, 6 years and we've only seen Halo released and it was a wet fart. The rest we've only seen tiny glimpses of and now you've flat out cancelled one.

See that etc of yours you threw in there - that accounts for PLENTY of day one games on Gamepass.

MS have been delivering day one content on a regular basis for the past 2 or 3 years now, and a lot of big games too.

You haven't fallen for any bait - theyve given you what the said they would - and will continue to do so as long as Gamepass is a thing.
 
Happy Season 4 GIF by The Simpsons
 
Of course.


Every AC game has easily sold more than 8M copies while Shadows is struggling to sell more than 3M months later

Im pretty sure launching it on day one at their subscription service is part of the reason why

And apparently, investors arent happy

I really enjoyed the game, btw
 
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Game Pass only works if there is consistent growth. For Microsoft it's not about quality games, or nurturing developers, it's about having more control over our content and how we consume it. They want to snuff out the traditional games market over time and force everyone under their umbrella. It's good people are rejecting it.
 
When devs get scared, you know you're getting an actual good deal as a consumer. None of these developers have to participate in it. What they're worried about is not being able to compete against it and have people buy their games for $80. Good, I hope they lose sleep over it. Seeing developers openly trying to push for price collusion shows you how threatened they are. They are scared you're getting a good deal, scared that you have a lot to play. They want you to have less options that cost more.

Whats especially hilarious is someone from Larian parroting this bullshit. Reminds me of the complaints about Baldurs Gate offering the consumer too much at too high quality so other developers started complaining about it. Pretty ironic they are just as quick to do that same kind of complaining. A lot of developers have this tendency to treat the consumer like trash and like they are owed their money. Make a product we want at a price we want or retire. These complaints are the screeching of someone getting beat on price and selection

Why are you still protecting MS? These devs more than likely didn't do these deals. We all told you Gamepass was bad for the industry, yet you STILL defend it. Why?
 
Now that it's clear PS gamers are willing to pay for premium versions of Game Pass titles, while more platform-agnostic players can pick up the games on PC or through whatever optimized Windows build powers the next Xbox, the strategy makes sense.

It wouldn't surprise me if Microsoft continues a split approach: one Xbox model aimed at mass-market volume, and another positioned to stay competitive with the PS6. They might even partner with companies like Asus to design an uber Xbox Astral, or eventually step back from manufacturing hardware themselves.

From a business perspective, focusing on platform and services rather than hardware seems like their logical next move.
 
The issue is that gamers have higher standards now, which gamepass and more importantly, the rise in high-quality free-to-play games have created. It's not 2016 anymore so releasing a game like Doom the Dark Ages for full price isn't going to cut it. People here might not agree but to the average gamer, Marvel Rivals is a far superior game than most of the games charging $70. Why would someone pay $70 for a game when they can play better games for free? They won't so they don't. If you want people to buy your game then make one worth buying, the studios that have done so have had success even after being available day 1 on gamepass.
 
GP isn't the problem. Day 1 is the problem.
They can't really backtrack at this point though.

Imagine being upset as a consumer for getting too good of a deal on games.

Won't somebody think of the business profits and bonuses?
This is a very tunnel visioned view.

Guess who controls the studios that make the games you enjoy? Corporations. Who funds these games? Corporations. What allows them to do this? Profit. What is the goal of the majority of businesses on earth? Profit.
Yes, corporations don't care about you that is undeniable. However many people are upset because of how Game Pass changes the gaming landscape for the worse. This "deal" is part of the downfall of the brand you probably hold so dearly.
 
See that etc of yours you threw in there - that accounts for PLENTY of day one games on Gamepass.

MS have been delivering day one content on a regular basis for the past 2 or 3 years now, and a lot of big games too.

You haven't fallen for any bait - theyve given you what the said they would - and will continue to do so as long as Gamepass is a thing.


Ok sure, but the quality has dropped considerably for some of those titles. Especially something like Halo which should have been their big hitter. I dont know what state its in now, but looking at launch, and the craig memes etc.

And, on a personal level, they havent delivered, not yet, not on their day one promises that convinced me at the time.
If GP has been worth it for any of you, fantastic. But it hasnt for me.
 
WE were talking about it! We have talked about it a lot. I'm super hyped to finally see YOU are talking about it, mr. game developer man. Please have more discussions about it publically, because you are absolutely right and fuck gamepass. It's only pro consumer if you don't consider the destruction of the industry anti consumer. Stop devaluing games green and pc bros. You fell for the short cheese like you live game to game paycheck to paycheck with no long term investment in the industry. Think of even the medium term future!
Judge Judy GIF
 
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Never used any of the free subs they offered over the years.
Try my best to not support anti consumer services like this.

They ain't adding me to the inflated numbers!

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GP is fine and great for gamers.

As for anyone trying to equate GP with MS firing people, it has little/nothing to do with it because the vast majority studios and games shut down the past week were studios who hadnt released anything in ages (5+ years in dev and nothing but a trailer to show), or released some mediocre games that had meh reviews or lousy sales. if MS had more sales to keep funding, why would anyone keep funding these projects for year 6, 7 or 10? See ya. Some of the studios/games WIP were probably started in the Xbox One X era and all they got is a trailer which is probably a bullshot rendered video anyway. Where all the budget goes who knows.

If GP is to blame for this, then PS+ is to blame for all the Sony GAAS studios and games shut down. And even Bend Studios had a measly 40 people let go too despite Sony's gaming division making $2-3B profit. So they can afford it, but they gas people too. Doesnt make sense does it? They gassed underperforming projects and studios.

Trim the fat of underperformers. That goes for any tech company the past 2 years. For example, SAP fired 10,000 people last year despite being a profitable company for decades.

Some reason for years, a lot of media and tech companies had gone ape shit funding new studios, games, tv shows, movies. A lot clunkers and a lot who still hadnt released anything. So the past year or two, some said fuck it and started cutting as the ROI and quality isnt keeping up with the giant hiring sprees and budgets.

The leash only gets so long before you got to rein it in when the dog goes hog wild.
 
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Ok sure, but the quality has dropped considerably for some of those titles. Especially something like Halo which should have been their big hitter. I dont know what state its in now, but looking at launch, and the craig memes etc.

And, on a personal level, they havent delivered, not yet, not on their day one promises that convinced me at the time.
If GP has been worth it for any of you, fantastic. But it hasnt for me.
I'm only chiming in on the Halo part.

It's still pretty shit in comparison to what it could be, but it's better than it was for sure. The campaign is still a boring uninspired mess. The multiplayer is actually pretty good but player numbers aren't very good and sometimes it takes 2-3 minutes to find a match especially on PC (personally I have a easier time finding matches on xbox but it could be different for others).

Overall it's a disappointment but at least it's not full of cheaters like MCC (which ignoring said cheaters is 1000% a better experience online then Infinite).
 
GamePass is not a terrible idea, but it is implemented very strangely. It really should not have Day 1 releases as that is often when demand is highest. It would be fine to have timed demos for new releases to provide a taste of what is on offer, but the whole game Day 1 is definitely bad business. GamePass should really leverage their legacy offerings better as the entry price for those can be a bit steep for anyone that is not an ardent fan. If they did this they would be more akin to a digital GameFly and it would make more sense as the user pool is not big enough for a Netflix strategy.
 
PS+ is to blame for all the Sony GAAS studios and games shut down
Yep, agreed. They went less far crazy out there with the suicidal idea MS had but then again MS was thinking they would be able to kill the business model of the competitors with a scorched earth approach trying to quite intentionally crash the industry to emerge as victors due to their bigger coffers but luckily they executed poorly.
 
Not to mention people call it "Gamepass" without elaborating which tier or licensing model you're on. The entire media and influencer industry is guilty of this. It's all misleading whether intentional or not.
 
GamePass is not a terrible idea, but it is implemented very strangely. It really should not have Day 1 releases as that is often when demand is highest. It would be fine to have timed demos for new releases to provide a taste of what is on offer, but the whole game Day 1 is definitely bad business. GamePass should really leverage their legacy offerings better as the entry price for those can be a bit steep for anyone that is not an ardent fan. If they did this they would be more akin to a digital GameFly and it would make more sense as the user pool is not big enough for a Netflix strategy.
IMO, the best way to keep sub plans in a reasonable state of usage is to NOT allow people to do no strings attached one off months. Like the stories you hear of people signing up for a month, plowing through games, then stop. Then repeat when the next hot game comes out in 6 months.

When someone does a cellphone or cable tv plan, it's pretty hard and stupid for anyone doing a temp one month plan because the company will likely charge you activation fees, and/or charge you the price of the cable box (my indie provider charged me $100 to buy out the box since they dont rent them out for a monthly fee). So when you got this much invested in it up front, nobody is going to bail after 3 weeks to test it out. You'll commit and stick around.

But a lot of tech, music, gaming, movie plans allow people to zip in and out when they feel like it with no limits or annoying upfront fees. I remember a recent thread where someone said if you sign up and cancel an Xbox sub plan in the same month they even refund you the monthly fee. Is this true? If so, that's even worse.
 
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Personally, I fell for their bait before Series X came out with their promise of Day one exclusives. New Gears, Fable, Perfect Dark, Halo etc. That sounded great.
Where are they MS? It's been what, 6 years and we've only seen Halo released and it was a wet fart.
So your issue is not with the business model per se, it's simply that they didn't deliver on what they promised?
 
What I'd like to see MS do is maybe open up shop in some Low Cost country and do Remasters and straight up ripoffs of other companies games.

Use AI to speed up development and to appease Satya.
 
As i said in another thread, GP should serve as a service for devs with low budget titles, no marketing budget or AA/AAA games that are 1y old or more. No AAA should ever be on there from day one. It makes no sense to be able to play a $70 title for $10.
 
Game Pass only works if there is consistent growth. For Microsoft it's not about quality games, or nurturing developers, it's about having more control over our content and how we consume it. They want to snuff out the traditional games market over time and force everyone under their umbrella. It's good people are rejecting it.

Not just consistent growth, but it has to reach a critical mass of subscribers to enter profitability. If you're only growing by 100K subs a year, that's not nearly enough. Disney+ only just reported its first year of profit in FY2024, and that's by exceeding 100 million subs and scaling back their production pipe line.
 
Every AC game has easily sold more than 8M copies while Shadows is struggling to sell more than 3M months later

Im pretty sure launching it on day one at their subscription service is part of the reason why

And apparently, investors arent happy
I just looked up Ubisoft's share price. It's fucking tanked over the last few years. In 2018 it had risen massively and was worth over 100 euro a share now it's 9 euro.
 
The industry didn't colapse because gamers in general didn't embrace the model. But the goal was to destroy everything and make rent the only model. It was pretty obvious.

Since they are done on hw and pc gamers in general don't care about gamepass the model is dead for the sake of this industry.

MS mentality for games is really dangerous because is something like if i can't win I will take everything with me.
 
As i said in another thread, GP should serve as a service for devs with low budget titles, no marketing budget or AA/AAA games that are 1y old or more. No AAA should ever be on there from day one. It makes no sense to be able to play a $70 title for $10.
Why not? It makes perfect sense given the spending of the average consumer.

Studios complained about the same shit when Netflix began streaming services. The complained for a DECADE that streaming would end the film industry by being a "threat to Theatrical and Traditional Models".

Go look up studio heads bitching about it like Time Warner's former CEO Jeffrey Bewkes saying it would be the death of the industry.
 
Yep, this was their very pro consumer goal and some people are more than happy to reach it if it means they get a few years of games at a very low cost… Turkeys do get fed before Thanksgiving too ;).
A plan to destroy most platforms and studios in the industry isn't pro consumer at all.

A few indie devs mentioned to be happy with the money MS did pay them for putting their game there. Many others -generally not publicly- mentioned specially in more recent times it wasn't worth it and that it was a bad decision that killed or almost killed their studio.

And as player, to ask you to rent games for over $200/year instead of buying them as main platform isn't very pro consumer either, specially if you are a collector.

But as secondary platform, if you just want to rent and play a few games during a month, maybe once per year, and then get rid of them I think is good if you're interested on these games and have enough time for them.
 
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When devs get scared, you know you're getting an actual good deal as a consumer. None of these developers have to participate in it. What they're worried about is not being able to compete against it and have people buy their games for $80. Good, I hope they lose sleep over it. Seeing developers openly trying to push for price collusion shows you how threatened they are. They are scared you're getting a good deal, scared that you have a lot to play. They want you to have less options that cost more.

Whats especially hilarious is someone from Larian parroting this bullshit. Reminds me of the complaints about Baldurs Gate offering the consumer too much at too high quality so other developers started complaining about it. Pretty ironic they are just as quick to do that same kind of complaining. A lot of developers have this tendency to treat the consumer like trash and like they are owed their money. Make a product we want at a price we want or retire. These complaints are the screeching of someone getting beat on price and selection
Nailed it.
 
Why are you still protecting MS? These devs more than likely didn't do these deals. We all told you Gamepass was bad for the industry, yet you STILL defend it. Why?
People who defend it likely do it for selfish reasons. For a monthly payment you get access to all Microsoft's games. That's pretty good if you're not concerned with actually owning your games.
I don't think they care if it's bad for the industry or not, and most I've noticed are in denial that it's a money sink.

And of course just plain old fanboyism
 
To be honest, I really don't understand why so many ppl are passionate to see it fail or succeed. Like shit, just let it do it thing and see. Like idk why so many so invested in it. For sure the ones that don't care for it at all or just want it to fail
 
People who defend it likely do it for selfish reasons.
Damn straight. I can think of many charities more deserving than video game developers. This is my entertainment.

This is a hobby that used to be accessible to children and lower class families. Presenting an optional low cost way to play is only a good thing.
 
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