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[SILKYSMOOTH30FPS]

Why not? It makes perfect sense given the spending of the average consumer.

Studios complained about the same shit when Netflix began streaming services. The complained for a DECADE that streaming would end the film industry by being a "threat to Theatrical and Traditional Models".

Go look up studio heads bitching about it like Time Warner's former CEO Jeffrey Bewkes saying it would be the death of the industry.

If it made sense, every single AA/AAA third party title would be on it cuz why not, right? Given the spending of the average consumer and all that. But no, it's not the case. Playing a game that took 3-5y to develop, $100M budget for $10 is laughable.

 

[Superkewl]

Clearly he hasn't visited GAF before. It's pretty much all we talk about

 

[jm89]

They are stuck with it.

If they decide to change the model significantly(e.g. remove day 1 games), the backlash will be huge.

But the Xbox shills will find away to defend it as they usually do.

 

[Musilla]

Gamepass is the biggest mistake in the history of video games, it has done terrible damage to this hobby.

 

[Laptop1991]

Now they have gone to 80 pounds or dollars to buy a game, it's hard to see a course correction without really hiking the price of gamepass which will cause a mass cancelation which defeats the point of it, they should of made really good games that gamers want to buy and keep them off GP for 6 months to a year, then add them, i don't see a way out of this personally.

 

[Zacfoldor]

This thread reminded me to re-up another 12 months of Game Pass.

Thanks, Arkane co-founder.

 

[Steve Holt]

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Why not? It makes perfect sense given the spending of the average consumer.

Studios complained about the same shit when Netflix began streaming services. The complained for a DECADE that streaming would end the film industry by being a "threat to Theatrical and Traditional Models".

Go look up studio heads bitching about it like Time Warner's former CEO Jeffrey Bewkes saying it would be the death of the industry.

I suspect Netflix thrives on people subscribing and then forgetting about paying for it. And I am pretty sure all of the competition (including Disney) loses money like mad.

Can't see that working with GP although if they could get people to buy games as well as subscribe to GP, that could be good enough.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Gamepass kills game sales for first party studios which in turn means less profit to keep things afloat. So the only way to sustain gamepass is to cut jobs and reduce costs because it's not bringing in enough profit to sustain itself.

Do we know how much money a developer gets for getting his game put on gamepass?

 

[knguyen]

*insert game's name here* is free on gamepass" is the dumbest shit I've ever heard.

 

[JerryinSoCal]

Gamepass was never going to work, AAA games take far too long to make and cost too much and if you are doing single player content there is no reason for someone to stay signed up longer than it takes to finish that game.

 

[PlayStaytion]

The s take this year is exclusives don't work, it's not an Xbox problem only. I understand who speaks common sense and who's delusional and want the brand to fail inexplicably.

 

[Jaybe]

I always called Game Pass a race to the bottom, and deleterious to the industry.

 

[BigLee74]

IMO, the best way to keep sub plans in a reasonable state of usage is to NOT allow people to do no strings attached one off months. Like the stories you hear of people signing up for a month, plowing through games, then stop. Then repeat when the next hot game comes out in 6 months.

When someone does a cellphone or cable tv plan, it's pretty hard and stupid for anyone doing a temp one month plan because the company will likely charge you activation fees, and/or charge you the price of the cable box (my indie provider charged me $100 to buy out the box since they dont rent them out for a monthly fee). So when you got this much invested in it up front, nobody is going to bail after 3 weeks to test it out. You'll commit and stick around.

But a lot of tech, music, gaming, movie plans allow people to zip in and out when they feel like it with no limits or annoying upfront fees. I remember a recent thread where someone said if you sign up and cancel an Xbox sub plan in the same month they even refund you the monthly fee. Is this true? If so, that's even worse.

Even worse are the people who sign up for a month to play a game, then immediately request a refund which MS will apparently give you no questions asked.

Some Ass of Can Whooping s have no shame

 

[FoxMcChief]

 

[KyoZz]

Gamepass has been great for me. Granted I still buy games, even some that are on Gamepass. Oblivion Remaster, The Alters, and Expedition 33 for recent examples are all in Gamepass, but I still bought them on Steam.

I'm probably in the minority tho.

 

[playbignbox]

Gamepass kills game sales for first party studios which in turn means less profit to keep things afloat. So the only way to sustain gamepass is to cut jobs and reduce costs because it's not bringing in enough profit to sustain itself.

Don't you think Microsoft has metrics on subscription sales and games being played on the service?

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

I'll take a new Dishonored 3 as well as a Dishonored 3 story dlc from them thank you.

 

[Lorianus]

"We develop games with a 350+ mil budget that no one wants to play and thats why the gamepass model sucks" is all i get out of that rant

 

[Klayzer]

It wasn't Nintendo, Sony, or PC that eroded the Xbox fanbase buying power... (dramatic music intensifies)

It was the Trojan horse, Gamepass. Who would have thought that (everyone except Xfans, apparently)

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

jezz right now:


must resist at least 72Hrs!!!

 

[TexMex]

I think he's correct, but "no one talking" about the elephant in the room? People never stop talking about it. It's been one of, if not the most hotly debated talking point in games for years.

 

[AmuroChan]

I suspect Netflix thrives on people subscribing and then forgetting about paying for it. And I am pretty sure all of the competition (including Disney) loses money like mad.

Not just that, but they reached a critical mass of subscribers where the model does become profitable. It took many years for Netflix to get to that point. Disney+ just reported its first profitable year, and that's with 100+ million subs and scaling back their production pipeline significantly.

 

[Klayzer]

I think he's correct, but "no one talking" about the elephant in the room? People never stop talking about it. It's been one of, if not the most hotly debated talking point in games for years.

He should have said "why is everyone trying to ignore" the elephant in the room?

 

[Hari Seldon]

Larians next game better be the game of all time with the amount of shit they have been talking since BG3.

 

[AmuroChan]

They are stuck with it.

If they decide to change the model significantly(e.g. remove day 1 games), the backlash will be huge.

But the Xbox shills will find away to defend it as they usually do.

Well, they did change GP into multiple tiers and only giving day 1 releases to the highest tier, but that's about as far as they can go. They have to have at least one tier still getting those day 1 releases.

 

[Haint]

When devs get scared, you know you're getting an actual good deal as a consumer. None of these developers have to participate in it. What they're worried about is not being able to compete against it and have people buy their games for $80. Good, I hope they lose sleep over it. Seeing developers openly trying to push for price collusion shows you how threatened they are. They are scared you're getting a good deal, scared that you have a lot to play. They want you to have less options that cost more.

Whats especially hilarious is someone from Larian parroting this bullshit. Reminds me of the complaints about Baldurs Gate offering the consumer too much at too high quality so other developers started complaining about it. Pretty ironic they are just as quick to do that same kind of complaining. A lot of developers have this tendency to treat the consumer like trash and like they are owed their money. Make a product we want at a price we want or retire. These complaints are the screeching of someone getting beat on price and selection

Exactly. 90% of the games on it are first party and indies. No third parties are putting day 1 AAA games on it, the only way it affects these clowns is if their games aren't good enough to warrant someone dropping damn near $100 on them with tax, or if they aren't good enough to compete with MS's first parties (which lets be honest, is not a high bar to beat). Gamepass is likely to earn $5-6+ billion dollars this year, it generates a lot of revenue on its own, MS isn't funding it with unlimited money. They are terrified of their $100 games having to compete with a $20 subscription catalog.

 

[Parazels]

GP would have succeeded if the install base had grown as planned. But it hadn't.

Maybe Microsoft should have canceled GP instead of desperately promoting it here and there?

 

[sachos]

Interesting to finally see more people speak out against the possible bad ramifications of Gamepass, stuff many have been saying here since the beginning.

 

[TexMex]

He should have said "why is everyone trying to ignore" the elephant in the room?

I have no idea what point you're trying to make. No one is ignoring Gamepass. It is at the forefront of the conversation.

 

[calico]

I don't think anyone would have a problem with Game Pass existing as the back catalogue subscription service (and they may pivot to that in future), but that doesn't achieve what Microsoft intended to achieve which was to subsidise their way to dominance of the market and force everyone else out.

If they had been allowed to succeed it would have been a total disaster for gaming and it would have been very difficult to reverse that later once they flipped Game Pass from 'achieve dominance' mode to 'profit from dominance' mode.

 

[Klayzer]

I have no idea what point you're trying to make. No one is ignoring Gamepass. It is at the forefront of the conversation.

I was talking about with regards to the devs conversation, rather than gaming sites chatter. No worries.

 

[DrFigs]

For people just joining this convo, it's going to be hard to believe, but there were actually people, probably some in this very thread who really thought that gamepass improved game sales. I kid you not. They really thought this.

 

[Dorfdad]

I kinda agree. Gamepass should become a market for all titles after 2 years of being on the market. This gives developers a full year to release on consoles and PC's and than get some subsidizing for continuing to support and upkeep the game after the first 2 years. There will be exceptions but if Microsoft adopted this strategy and maybe included all their First party titles into the service as a DAY and DATE to help generate interest in Gamepass I think that would be a great idea, and Hopefully it would encourage more developers. Take 2 - Square - Rockstar - WB - EA - and more to allow their titles on the service.

This would be the only way I see the games market being sustainable for developers. Indies could opt in day and date also which would help get the IP out there and engagement.

I believe Microsoft is trying to bend tthe current model into Spotify. You get some kind of initial sign on bonus, and than depending on how many people play your game or the engagement level on the service you get paid a royalty.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Microsoft's best asset is their coffers.

They spend like a kid who inherited money and wants to buy success. I just said this yesterday morning to a friend. They have hurt the industry more than helped. Starting with their exclusive buying of timed stuff in the 360 era (which was their hayday in my opinion).

 

[Crayon]

GP isn't the problem. Day 1 is the problem.

Agree, here. It changes the whole dynamic. I don't love being mindfucked by marketing, but wondering when/if your game is ever going to hit the sub is important to keep the retail model strong.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

To be honest, I really don't understand why so many ppl are passionate to see it fail or succeed. Like shit, just let it do it thing and see. Like idk why so many so invested in it. For sure the ones that don't care for it at all or just want it to fail

Allow me to open up your horizon's in regards to this point. A lot of us have been around for 9+ generations of gaming and have seen the impact of what buying studios and brute force mentality MSFT has had in not just this industry but with their anti trust case back in the 90's. We want to see the industry rife with the same creativity and success that specifically the 80's and 90's brought. I play more MSFT games than I do Playstation these days due to Gamepass and that doesn't make my point null and void.

I literally just was talking abotu this with a friend after the last round of massive layoffs in their gaming division. The Initiative is just the tip of the iceberg. I'm sure Phil is a nice guy but that doesn't pay the bills.

 

[Thief1987]

I have no idea what point you're trying to make. No one is ignoring Gamepass. It is at the forefront of the conversation.

He is most likely talking about gamedev circle, no one cares about gamers' blabbering on forum boards

 

[Flabagast]

Gamepass is a horrible business model which is destroying value across the board and sending entire studios to the grave.

Everyone telling you otherwise is very stupid, and should not be seriously interacted with

 

[Thebonehead]

Thread 'Ubisoft stock is tanking hard after disastrous earning report'

May 15, 2025

They can hide, fudge AC Shadows number as much as they want, but the truth has to come out on earning reports and it's not good

https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/ubi?countrycode=fr

As far as AC Shadows sale number, 2.4 million sold in 2 months. OUCH!!!!

• Kotaro
• Replies: 441
• Forum: Gaming Discussion

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Every AC game has easily sold more than 8M copies while Shadows is struggling to sell more than 3M months later

Im pretty sure launching it on day one at their subscription service is part of the reason why

And apparently, investors arent happy

I really enjoyed the game, btw

I subbed a month of Ubi+ for it.

think I got about 9 hours in. Would I buy it? - Maybe at very deep discount.

It just didn't grab me the way previous titles had. I'll defintely buy the black flag remake though ( As long as they keep Matt Ryan for the Voice )

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Not a fan of Gamepass at all, never have been a fan of anything rental or subscription.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

 

[AtomicStarving]

Isn't it clear to people yet? It seems that Microsoft has a weight on its hands that it can no longer hold. The light at the end of the tunnel is a train. If they increase the price, which will happen more and more, many will leave the service. If they stop releasing day-one games (and offer only old games like PS Plus), they'll need to make VERY good games to sell, or risk falling into the limbo of "people will just wait for the games to come to the service," which also is already happening with third-party titles.

For me, the "way out" here is the second option, because the first one will become unsustainable, as is already happening. Just look at how many third-party AAA games have been released on the service... None. All niche, indie, and AA. That was a sign, actually.

 

[TexMex]

He is most likely talking about gamedev circle, no one cares about gamers' blabbering on forum boards

We will never be able to prove one way or the other because we aren't there, but I refuse to believe that devs aren't having the same conversations, given that they are the ones directly impacted by the model financially.

 

[Three]

Microsoft ruthlessly cracked down on their gaming business and have clearly wielded cancellations and layoffs for struggling areas…but we're supposed to believe GP is cratering their business even when they've left it alone?

The tweets in the OP say GP is only being sustained by Microsoft's 'infinite money' meanwhile they just canceled projects and killed studios because they clearly aren't willing to spend 'infinite money'


Gamepass works for me as a consumer.

His entire point is that the shit has possibly hit the fan regarding what it can "sustain". He's saying infinite money is not the reality and would not work forever. They would either give up or kill everybody else before that.

 

[Wildebeest]

Gamepass isn't the elephant in the room. There are two bigger. First how many people are now natives of handheld touchscreen devices and have no interest in couch or desktop gaming. Second is how people find social media and services like tik tok way more compelling than gaming and primarily game as an activity that provides content for their profiles on those other platforms.

 

[eNT1TY]

This thread reminded me to turn off recurring billing, done with Expedition 33 and Oblivion. I thank Gamepass for allowing me to not buy these games, as long as its on GP i will never purchase these games or spend a dime beyond the monthly fee.

 

[Klayzer]

He is most likely talking about gamedev circle, no one cares about gamers' blabbering on forum boards

Thank you. I'm sorry I didn't articulate my point better. I was definitely talking about the devs point of view.

 

[UltimaKilo]

If it made sense, every single AA/AAA third party title would be on it cuz why not, right? Given the spending of the average consumer and all that. But no, it's not the case. Playing a game that took 3-5y to develop, $100M budget for $10 is laughable.

First of all, GamePass Ultimate is $23. That's over $275 a year. The average consumer spends $17.05 a year of software and the average gamer, $234.72/year. In the business world, recurring revenue is the gold standard and for Microsoft, not only is this worth it, but keeps users in the MS ecosystem rather than Apple and they continue to lose market share.

When Netflix released, Paramount, MGM and all the large studios held out of streaming until around 2018 (some even later) because it was going to decimate their business model.

Oh and Netflix just spent $320 million on Electric State movie and every episode of Stranger Things costs them $30 million.

I suspect Netflix thrives on people subscribing and then forgetting about paying for it. And I am pretty sure all of the competition (including Disney) loses money like mad.

Can't see that working with GP although if they could get people to buy games as well as subscribe to GP, that could be good enough.

It was a large upfront investment. Disney+ is barely cash positive and generates most of its money from ESPN and Hulu, so we will see what happens with them long term.

For GP, this will be the business model of the future, with most large publishers having their own subscription service, failing and then having their rights purchased by Sony, Microsoft and (I believe eventually) Apple.

 

[POKEYCLYDE]

Until Gamepass is the only way to access a game there isn't an issue.

But what about Gamepass price hikes? If the cost outweighs the value, people have the free will to cancel their subscription.

But developer's sales get cannibalized if they release on Gamepass! If they feel that the money or exposure they'll get from making a Gamepass deal isn't worth the sales that will get cannibalized, they don't have to make that deal.

What about first party developers? They don't have a choice! They had a choice when they sold their studio. And if they're worried about keeping their job, have something ready to release in under 7 fucking years of development. Three games got cancelled and each were over 6 years in development, without much at all to show for it.

All I ever hear is how Xbox's slice of the pie is so small. They're dying. Xbox is dead. But for a platform that is dead or dying they somehow have the power to damage the industry? Developers never explain HOW Gamepass damages the industry, just that it does.

These developers are scared of losing their jobs. And that's not on Gamepass. That's on their inability to release a game in under 7 years with a budget less than 300+ million.