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Rapist gets 6 months because prison sentence would have a severe impact on him

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C

CTLance

Member
Oh yuck. Everything about this is appalling. That statement of hers is gut-wrenching.

I mean, I can understand that a judge wouldn't want to crack down on a young criminal too much for fear of destroying his ability to lead a proper life afterwards, when they are supposedly reformed into proper law-abiding citizens. That's how the theory goes, at least.

But in this case, holy shit. How mortifying. The guy doesn't even strike me as particularly repentant. Reading that statement of the victim made my heart bleed. To learn that the asshole that caused this will be out after 90 more days breaks my mind. This is too much. Or rather, too little. I mean, there's a case to be made for being lenient as stated above, but there's lenient, and there's wilfully enabling a rapist by giving him the tiniest punishment possible. It sends a terrible message. How repulsive.
 
-duskdoll-

-duskdoll-

Member
Sir Fragula said:
Because the objective of the justice system isn't to make victims happy. It's to provide an outcome for society that minimises harm.


To play devil's advocate, is the lesson from six months gaol time really, actually, less than the lesson from sixty months gaol time?
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I thought the objective of the justice system was to serve justice. Getting 3-6 months for raping someone isn't justice, because the victim's life is never going to be the same.

The sentence has to reflect the severity of the crime, and in this case it doesn't. What kind of example will this set? 6 months is nothing. If the point is to teach him a lesson then why go to prison at all? Why not just have someone talk to him about the impact of his actions? But it's not about that, because let's be honest, he knew what he did was wrong. He knew even before doing it but he didn't care.
 
H

HawksWinStanley

Member
MWS Natural said:
Not really about money..more about race. Mike Tyson got 6 years for rape and he was a multimillionaire at the time.
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Does being charged with "intent to rape" matter in the sentencing though? Obviously with murder charges "intent to kill" comes with a less severe sentence. Would it be the same with rape?
 
A

Apt101

Member
Heh. Sure. You know who jail time would affect the most? The random 18-ish year old black kid whose prospects were already slim but gets the book thrown at them anyway because they had a dime bag of weed or couldn't pay for some stupid vehicle-related citation. Throw them in jail. Dude guilty of trying to rape someone? Ah, go light on 'em, it could really fuck up their chances of landing a job on Wall Street otherwise.
 
T

Turin

Banned
I've known two rape victims. Both eventually died from drug overdose.

I'm not sure where or how this numbness to the crime infects people. It can't just be lack of perspective.
 
D

dan2026

Member
I actually agree that this guy shouldnt be in prison. If he isn't dangerous what good is that to him or to society?

Make him work for society for his punishment. Forced community service helping people, make him work for the betterment of others. Get him to understand his crime and its effect.

Send him to jail and what does that achieve?
Hell he will probably be worse when he gets out.
 
N

Noaloha

Member
The victim's full statement is absolutely, 100% mandatory reading.

I just went through it, was unexpectedly dragged through it, after idling on twitter and seeing a linked article (buzzfeed, though it was linked also previously in the thread). It's a long, river rapid of a statement. Strong, direct and terrifying. It is heart-wrenching, eye-watering, inspirational and beautifully worded. Again, a mandatory read for you if you've not already. I feel sick.
 
A

Already Torn

Banned
This is pretty terrible.

"Persona 5 comes out later this year your honor, my client can't play it in jail."

Like seriously. I guess there should be more something more productive than prison that still teaches him a lesson, but even then maybe more than 3 months.
 
J

Jukeboxx93

Neo Member
I thought this was an awful story. But then, I read the victim statement. I lost it. How can someone read this, and still pass a light judgement?

I wish the best for her.

I hope this guy rethinks his life decisions.
 
K

Kinsei

Banned
dan2026 said:
I actually agree that this guy shouldnt be in prison. If he isn't dangerous what good is that to him or to society?

Make him work for society for his punishment. Forced community service helping people, make him work for the betterment of others. Get him to understand his crime and its effect.

Send him to jail and what does that achieve?
Hell he will probably be worse when he gets out.
Click to expand...

You kidding? He still maintains that he didn't rape her. The guy is dangerous.
 
S

Sober

Member
Noaloha said:
The victim's full statement is absolutely, 100% mandatory reading.

I just went through it, was unexpectedly dragged through it, after idling on twitter and seeing a linked article (buzzfeed, though it was linked also previously in the thread). It's a long, river rapid of a statement. Strong, direct and terrifying. It is heart-wrenching, eye-watering, inspirational and beautifully worded. Again, a mandatory read for you if you've not already. I feel sick.
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Definitely agree. Just finished reading her statement. Just absolutely horrifying what she went through.

Kinsei said:
You kidding? He still maintains that he didn't rape her. The guy is dangerous.
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That is the most disturbing part honestly. Unanimously convicted of being guilty on all counts, doesn't admit to the crime and they aren't harsh on him? Like holy shit, how is this a thing?
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
Mental Atrophy said:
This would be grossly unfair to convicts and violates your right to a speedy trial.
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We do it in Canada.

I think there's a state interest in not allowing Judges to make ridiculously low sentences on a whim without any sort of ability to counter-act that.

Mumei said:
This whole case is gross, but not nearly as gross as that would be in the big picture.
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Sentence Appeals

The Crown can appeal sentence with leave of the Court of Appeal or a judge thereof: see s. 676(1)(d) C.C. Having regard to the governing principle and established case law, an appeal against sentence will not be launched unless:

it relates to a serious offence, or it relates to an offender who constitutes a serious threat to the community, or it is otherwise in the public interest; and
one of the following conditions exist:
the sentence is illegal;
the sentence is clearly unreasonable; or,
there are exceptional circumstances that require the guidance or direction of the Court of Appeal.
Click to expand...

https://justice.alberta.ca/programs...wn_prosecutor/Pages/criteria_for_appeals.aspx

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-judge-judical-review-robin-camp-1.3311574

The council announced Monday it will review the behaviour of Robin Camp during a 2014 case he adjudicated while serving as an Alberta provincial court judge. The case involved the alleged rape of a 19-year-old woman by a Calgary man, whom she accused of sexually assaulting her over a bathroom sink during a house party.

The review comes after a complaint from four law professors at Dalhousie University and the University of Calgary who described Camp as "dismissive, if not contemptuous" toward sexual assault laws and the rules of evidence.

In the 11-page complaint, Elaine Craig, Jocelyn Downie, Jennifer Koshan and Alice Woolley said that in the 2014 case, Camp asked the complainant, "Why couldn't you just keep your knees together?" and, "Why didn't you just sink your bottom down into the basin so he couldn't penetrate you?"

The complaint alleges Camp "showed disregard, if not disdain" for the rape shield provisions of the Criminal Code, the legal definition of consent to sexual touching and other Criminal Code provisions.

"His articulated disrespect for these legal rules was, in some instances, combined with a refusal to apply them," the complaint states.

"Consistently, the legal rules that Justice Camp took issue with were those aimed at removing from the law outdated and discredited stereotypes about women and sexual violence. In a dismissive manner, Justice Camp repeatedly referred to the legal rules requiring that these stereotypes not be relied upon as 'contemporary thinking.' "
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New trial ordered for alleged offender

Alexander Scott Wagar was acquitted in the 2014 sexual assault case, but last month, Alberta's Court of Appeal ordered a new trial.
Woolley, one of the four academics who filed the complaint to the judicial council, said Camp's behaviour is unworthy of a judge.

"I have never seen a judgment, and certainly not one in the past decade, which showed such shocking statements that are so out of keeping with modern Canadian values," she told CBC News.
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-judge-judical-review-robin-camp-1.3311574

In my opinion a justice system should balance protecting the rights of the accused but also have a system to prevent gross injustice from a Judge against the victim.
 
P

Pau

Member
Just finished reading her whole statement. Sitting here crying. The fucking strength that it must have taken to read that out loud in court.
 
RPGCrazied

RPGCrazied

Member
Is he rich? Its like the Affluenza kid that got drunk and killed 4 people only to get a slap on the wrist. These people are the worst.
 
N

Noaloha

Member
Pau said:
Just finished reading her whole statement. Sitting here crying. The fucking strength that it must have taken to read that out loud in court.
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I was reading it, an article bolt from the blue, and as her words pulled me along found my eyes watering. I, as I do, suppressed it, and kept reading. At some point I paused and considered why the fuck I was holding it in, relented and let it all out. Carried on reading, obviously.

Her perspective is devastating to catch a glimpse of. And yes, strength is a perfect word there.
 
N

neojubei

Will drop pants for Sony.
When I read articles like Brock Turner I cannot help to think about Kalief Browder. At 16 was thrown in Rikers prison for supposedly stealing a freaking backpack. 16 years old in prison and someone like Brock Turner can get off so lightly makes me hate everything about america.
 
M

MHWilliams

Member
When the justice system continually fails its people, then you leave them with no hope and no outlet to restitution. Thus we trend towards poorer actions.

This is a shame.
 
K

Kotetsu534

Member
RPGCrazied said:
Is he rich? Its like the Affluenza kid that got drunk and killed 4 people only to get a slap on the wrist. These people are the worst.
Click to expand...

I can't comprehend the judges that make these kinds of decisions. If they genuinely think justice is served when they conclude "the perpetrator of this horrible, violent crime had everything going for him, therefore we should take it easy", then they have twisted it into something decrepid, not fit for any country which claims to operate under the rule of law.
 
N

Noaloha

Member
It's the notion of leniency. Which is a valid consideration. But.

To what extent should leniency be applied to "He has only apologized for drinking and has yet to define what he did to me as sexual assault, he has revictimized me continually, relentlessly."

I want to say more, i've wanted to edit and reedit this post, to find the perfect worrding. But to do so I keep returning to her victim statement and, as a result, I keep returning to a state of pending tears.

Which is to say, I am not as strong as her.
 
K

Karkador

Banned
Noaloha said:
Maybe alcohol does, maybe not. What I'm interested in is whether you have a promising future which may be impacted upon.
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It reminds me of the numerous "false rape accusation" threads we've had on GAF, where men come pouring out of the woodwork to assert how endangered they are because of the power women have with rape allegations.

To those people, even this sentence is probably too much jail time.
 
M

Mumei

Member
excelsiorlef said:
In my opinion a justice system should balance protecting the rights of the accused but also have a system to prevent gross injustice from a Judge against the victim.
Click to expand...

Well, that's not entirely the same as "I wish prosecutors could appeal sentences." "I wish prosecutors could appeal sentences with leave of the Court of Appeal or a judge thereof and in specific circumstances," is more narrowly construed and something I don't have the same misgivings about. I was just imagining a scenario where you wished for a legal system in which prosecutors could simply routinely and entirely of their own discretion appeal sentencing when they didn't like it, as opposed to that system you just described.
 
J

JavyOO7

Member
Not even after the powerful words from the victim caused the judge to flinch. If the rapist was a black dude in the same spot he'd probably be in prison for a decade to 'team him a lesson'.
 
shira

shira

Member
Pau said:
Just finished reading her whole statement. Sitting here crying. The fucking strength that it must have taken to read that out loud in court.
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After hearing and reading her statement, the judge still sentenced Turner to six months, though, as Palo Alto Online notes, it will more than likely be reduced to three months “with credit for good behavior.”
cBj1LTf.png
 
T

TestMonkey

Member
I've done a lot of research on this topic so I'll put in my 2 cents.

First of all the vocabulary most you are using is wrong. Rape is not sexual assault. Rape should be categorized under sexual battery. Assault is the threat and battery is the action. I don't understand how the guy was charged with assault if the girl was unconscious. Assault occurs if a victim is threatened and has a reasonable expectation of harm. Battery carries a harsher sentence and that seems to be what occurred.

This guy was convicted of assault with intent to commit rape of an intoxicated woman, sexually penetrating an intoxicated person with a foreign object and sexually penetrating an unconscious person with a foreign object not rape. The prosecutor is partially to blame for the lack of justice because they went soft on the charges. The judge is largely to blame because not only did he issue the minimum sentence but he also allowed the guy to serve his time concurrently and serve his time in jail instead of prison. The system basically gave this kid as much of a pass as it could.

The part that made me cringe the most was the prosecutor, saying, “He may not look like a rapist, but he is the … face of campus sexual assault,” in her closing argument. No stupid. He looks like a rapist. Rapists aren't shadowy figures in the darkness. 1 in 5 college women are the victims of some sort of sexual crime during their college careers. The great majority of the perpetrators are people the victims know and trust. Hearing "he's too pretty to be a rapist," especially from the prosecutor, infuriates me.

Anyway, here is a with some well researched information about college sexual assault and sexual violence: https://issuu.com/theswcsun/docs/issue6combined The format is garbage but the journalism is sound.
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
Mumei said:
Well, that's not entirely the same as "I wish prosecutors could appeal sentences." "I wish prosecutors could appeal sentences with leave of the Court of Appeal or a judge thereof and in specific circumstances," is more narrowly construed and something I don't have the same misgivings about. I was just imagining a scenario where you wished for a legal system in which prosecutors could simply routinely and entirely of their own discretion appeal sentencing when they didn't like it, as opposed to that system you just described.
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Fair enough.

Thougb to be honest given this case I feel like that second element should have been self evident.
 
N

Nudull

Banned
Took the time to read the statement. I'm in tears, right now. I can only hope that her words will stay with everyone who reads or hears it.
 
S

Seth Enosh

Member
Karkador said:
Am I alone in feeling like alcohol doesn't lead me to assault people or do things I wouldn't consider while sober?
Click to expand...
Alcohol has widely varying effects on people. You're not alone.

I think it's pretty well known that a significant fraction of people become violent, mean, or otherwise dangerous when drinking heavily.
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
CkKYJxwUYAAriIn.jpg

A letter written by the rapist's dad.
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No admission of fault, called the rape non violent and 20 minutes of "action", and blamed it on sexual promiscuity aka called the victim a slut.

There's no remorse anywhere.

This kid will rape again.
 
G

GoldenEye 007

Member
excelsiorlef said:
No admission of fault, called the rape non violent and blamed it on sexual promiscuity aka called the victim a slut.

There's no remorse anywhere.

This kid will rape again.
Click to expand...

What in the fucking fuck. And a pull of the trigger takes a fraction of a second. Surely that fraction of a second of squeezing certainly means it shouldn't affect the other X amount of years of a life.

What the fuck.
 
I

InfiniteBento

Member
excelsiorlef said:
No admission of fault, called the rape non violent and 20 minutes of "action", and blamed it on sexual promiscuity aka called the victim a slut.

There's no remorse anywhere.

This kid will rape again.
Click to expand...

As a victim of sexual assault, I'm fucking mortified and cannot begin to describe how much this entire situation has enraged me.
 
M

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
excelsiorlef said:
No admission of fault, called the rape non violent and 20 minutes of "action", and blamed it on sexual promiscuity aka called the victim a slut.

There's no remorse anywhere.

This kid will rape again.
Click to expand...
That letter holy shit.... him and his dad are both fucking scumbags. Utterly despicable and gross.

Goddamn
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
Morrigan Stark said:
That letter holy shit.... him and his dad are both fucking scumbags. Utterly despicable and gross.

Goddamn
Click to expand...

And it worked.

That's what's so fucked.

A victim, the victim, writes a letter eviscerating him, what he did, how he's not taking responsibility, eviscerating the Parole Officer, demanding proper justice for the destruction he wrought on her.

All that and still his pathetic words and those of his father mattered most.

I can practically hear the judge thinking "one life is already ruined (hers) there's no sense ruining another (his)"

She gets to live on knowing that her life meant nothing to that judge. That that judge priortized not "ruining" the life of a rapist over seeing that justice was served. That his future is more important than her wellbeing and anyone else's whom he might rape in the future. He showed no understanding that he raped someone and the judge would have you believe he'll never do it again. Thank god for that jury because had it been up to the j6dge he'd have likely been acquitted.

The onlt justice here is that he's a registered sex offender for life. He should by legally obliged to tell that to every woman he dares even flirt with. For their protection.
 
K

Keri

Member
Well, I know I feel terribly for Brock, now that I know he can no longer enjoy snacking as much as he use to...

This sentencing is incredibly depressing and just reaffirms the horrible view that many have, that sexual assault and rape aren't a big deal. I mean, in this case, the father honestly thought his son's loss of interests in snacks is worthy of mention, in this context, next to what the victim experienced...
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
Keri said:
Well, I know I feel terribly for Brock, now that I know he can no longer enjoy snacking as much as he use to...

This sentencing is incredibly depressing and just reaffirms the horrible view that many have, that sexual assault and rape aren't a big deal. I mean, in this case, the father honestly thought his son's loss of interests in snacks is worthy of mention, in this context, next to what the victim experienced...
Click to expand...

People are assholes. What blows my mind is that this appeal to Brock's character worked. Actually it doesn't blow my mind, which is sadder.

Fuck this system of injustice
 
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