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[LordOcidax]

This topic comes from another thread, but i think this discussion would be interesting.

If a 4K reconstructed resolution from 840p is not the same as 4K reconstructed resolution from 1440p (examples), or the AMD tech is not the same as Nvidia tech, AI, etc etc… If they are too many variables and too many results. Why is called as simple as 4K?, like it was a native resolution, a simplification that only benefits one side with marketing and the buyer’s doesn’t get a clear information on the product. I think that something like that should be regulated to prevent false advertising and prevent confusion. Something like 1440p(R) or 4K(R) should work, a la 1080p and 1080i.

Do you think it should be regulated?

 

[Akuji]

Sure, i dont mind. But its also not needed in any way. Either u dont care anyway or you are informed.

What exactly is the problem here and what game even advertises 4k output on console that doesnt even have it ? All i ever come across are vague Statements. But maybe i just havent given 2 shits and ignored it?

 

[XXL]

If it looks the same or better who cares? The most important things is clarity, how we get there is unimportant.

 

[Magic Carpet]

If it's DLSS it should be called "Magic"

 

[GHG]

But nobody is calling it native when it's reconstructed.

If you're running a game at 4k with DLSS Quality for example, you're not going to call it native 4k, it will simply be 4k dlss quality.

 

[The Cockatrice]

I dont think we will ever see native resolutions that much going further anyway.

 

[ShirAhava]

Pretty sure these companies would rather not draw unnecessary attention to the actual difference
no gain for them to continually remind the end user of the distinction and if parity is achieved I see
no real harm in it.

 

[Topher]

No.....this does not need to be "regulated". I have yet to see any publisher or developer claim that an upscaled image is "native". Where is this coming from?

 

[Celcius]

When you read someone talking about resolutions these days you just have to pay attention to whether that say "native" resolution or just the resolution.
If they don't say native then assume there's some upscaling going on.

 

[JimboJones]

I think reconstruction is just a given at this point, I remember they used to advertise the resolution on the back of game boxes but it was just referring to the video signal more than the actual internal resolution of games.
So there has been always some level of upscaling going on for years reconstruction is just a more advanced way of doing things.

 

[LordOcidax]

But nobody is calling it native when it's reconstructed.

If you're running a game at 4k with DLSS Quality for example, you're not going to call it native 4k, it will simply be 4k dlss quality.

In places like this no, but in the real world they don’t know the difference’s because they were not informed by the brands. Also if you check sites dedicated to this topic they start ditching the word reconstructed and calling it plain 4K.

 

[adamsapple]

They aren't ... no one is calling them that ?

Can we clamp down on these reactionary threads that could just as easily be a post in one of the dozen topics already lol.

 

[proandrad]

It doesn’t need regulation. I don’t need a number to know if something looks like shit or not.

 

[Mr Moose]

I thought people say native when it's native.

 

[Gaiff]

Do you think it should be regulated?

Yeah, we should start handing out jail sentences to people who mislead with pixels.

 

[Clear]

Why confuse non-technically minded people with this bullshit?

Seriously, we can all tell whether something looks sharp or blurry! The more we split hairs on the techniques being employed to make the image the way it is, the less useful the info gets.

 

[LordOcidax]

Yeah, we should start handing out jail sentences to people who mislead with pixels.

A clear information in the box is not going to hurt… What’s wrong with that?

 

[Gaiff]

A clear information in the box is not going to hurt… What’s wrong with that?

Gonna confuse customers more than anything else.

 

[LordOcidax]

Why confuse non-technically minded people with this bullshit?

Seriously, we can all tell whether something looks sharp or blurry! The more we split hairs on the techniques being employed to make the image the way it is, the less useful the info gets.

Because power is an important selling point for companies… Buyers should be informed.

 

[adamsapple]

A clear information in the box is not going to hurt… What’s wrong with that?

99% of game developers don't reveal the internal resolutions of their games and we have to rely on sources like DF, VGTech etc to get that.

What makes you think they're even going to entertain the idea of mentioning that a game is using reconstruction on the box?

 

[cireza]

Reconstruction is one of the worst thing that happened to video-games in recent years.

 

[LordOcidax]

Gonna confuse customers more than anything else.

So more information is bad for us… Ok then .

 

[gooner4life_uk]

Stop thinking about native resolutions, they are meaningless and a waste of resources, DLSS 3.0 can take 720p and make it look as good if not better than native 4k at times. As we see DLSS/XESS/PSSR/AMD's FSR replacement improve we will see a big leap in the effects used because we can use ML Upscalers to increase IQ to better than native, at that point why would you care?

 

[Topher]

Because power is an important selling point for companies… Buyers should be informed.

If buyers want to be informed then they can be. This is not information that is being withheld or hidden from the public. This is what outlets like DF are for. This is a non-issue.

 

[Gaiff]

So more information is bad for us… Ok then .

Do you wanna start including technical papers inside the box too? After all, more info is never bad, right?

Mate, most people don't even know what resolution is. When Apple does their keynote to address those dumbshit millennial Starbucks drinkers, they always accompany better resolution with what it actually does. "The new iPhone has x resolution, resulting in cleaner and sharper pictures and videos." You cannot just slap "PSSR" on the box and call it a day because people wouldn't know what the fuck it is, and even if you told them what is upscaling, they would ask you how the hell it works, and even if you did explain it, most wouldn't understand. Plus, the base resolution varies by game, so you can't just put the information on the box.

As such, they only tell you the output resolution. It's scaled to go on a 4K screen even though it doesn't have 3840x2160 pixels.

Also, yes, useless information is bad.

 

[winjer]

The options to turn on these upscalers are well marked in the game's options.
And asides from Intel, Quality, balanced and performance mode, refer to the same base resolution.

 

[GymWolf]

I agree if you can notice some compromises but if they are virtually the same, then who cares.

The thing is, dlss can look sharper than native, but sometimes can have some ghosting or small problems, so it's game per game basis.

 

[RCX]

DLSS is good enough that I really dont see it. The benefit of lower power draw of upscaling lower res to 4K seems like a great thing.

I think we've moved beyond raw resolutions. The only real question is: does it look good?

 

[tmlDan]

yea, not sure i agree, if its up to almost the same quality/visual standard it shouldn't matter to the general consumer whether its native or not.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

They should all have a warning like this that says “GRAPHICS ADVISORY: CONTAINS FAKE PIXELS”

 

[CloudShiner]

If it's done with DLSS, it's fine. If it's done with PSSR, it's crap.

Am I on-message?

 

[DenchDeckard]

I think it's just about communication and open honest conversations. Even a little "our ML up scaling will delivery a 4k/60FPS output that looks almost identical, and in some situations can look better than a native 4k output"

Something along those lines.

 

[SmokedMeat]

With all the reconstruction these days it’s assumed to not be actual 4K, unless it states “native”.

 

[Mr Moose]

Reconstruction is one of the worst thing that happened to video-games in recent years.

 

[TintoConCasera]

If fake pixels make you mad then wait until you hear about fake frames...

 

[hinch7]

Nah way too much technical jargon and potential confusion for the average consumer and gamer. PSSR is better than FSR and from what I can see; current inhouse TAA solutions with their own engines. Thats all Sony has to advertise.

Most people won't care and select performance modes for 60fps and that'll be all. Or if they care more for eyecandy and raytracing fidelity.

 

[LordOcidax]

With all the reconstruction these days it’s assumed to not be actual 4K, unless it states “native”.

That’s the problem here…

 

[Gen.Grievous]

In some cases it actually looks better than native with better performance as well. It's the end result that counts, not pixel counting.

 

[Clear]

Because power is an important selling point for companies… Buyers should be informed.

Power is not the same as performance. You get in Lewis Hamilton's seat and try and drive like he does.... Not happening. Power's the same though.

 

[Crispy Gamer]

I haven't seen anyone call DLSS, FSR or PSSR native 4k especially on this forum everyone compares these techniques to native resolutions to gauge how close they are.

 

[SmokedMeat]

That’s the problem here…

Problem for whom though? No one should expect native 4K from modern releases. Eventually we’ll be at the point where the fps will have to be enhanced just to achieve 60fps.

 

[Madserb2023]

I honestly don't care. If one day you can get 1080p to look identical to 4k, then it doesn't matter. Infact, it might be better for PS6 games to target 1080p because then patch tracing could be possible across all games. One of the reasons fidelity has slowed down is because every generation there is also an increase in res so that extra power goes in large part to just having a higher resolution. If the PS7 only needed to target 1080p, you might have CGI level visuals.

 

[Topher]

They should all have a warning like this that says “GRAPHICS ADVISORY: CONTAINS FAKE PIXELS”

 

[MadchesterManc]

Stop thinking about native resolutions, they are meaningless and a waste of resources, DLSS 3.0 can take 720p and make it look as good if not better than native 4k at times. As we see DLSS/XESS/PSSR/AMD's FSR replacement improve we will see a big leap in the effects used because we can use ML Upscalers to increase IQ to better than native, at that point why would you care?

Can I have some of whatever GAF is smoking if DLSS Ultra Performance looks even remotely close to native 4K

 

[LordOcidax]

Problem for whom though? No one should expect native 4K from modern releases. Eventually we’ll be at the point where the fps will have to be enhanced just to achieve 60fps.

When an average buyers read 4K in a box, assume all games are going to be 4K… Not every buyers is part of neogaf or follow DF… A clear information ins the box is not going to hurt.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

No one is. We are just realistic in our expectations and the more advancements happen, the more we accept it.

I'm all in for it. Do your research and be happy for tech/SW advancements.

 

[Kikorin]

In past (and still these days) we had "dynamic resolution" or "1080p dynamic", like if your game can handle 1080p at least for a second when you watch the blue sky, it is enough to have the marker good for marketing purpose. But tbh 90% of costumers have no idea about all of that and couldn't care less if is native 4K or reconstructed, and people who care already know the difference, so I guess is fine as it is.

 

[K' Dash]

f4Ke

 

[Xyphie]

This is already a solved problem. Everyone just refers to it as e.g. "1440p DLSS Quality" in the PC space. That contains all the information you need to know what the base resolution, the resolution scale and output resolution are. Of course, even better than calling it "Quality" would be "DLSS 0.67x", "DLSS 2/3" or whatever.

 

[SmokedMeat]

When an average buyers read 4K in a box, assume all games are going to be 4K… Not every buyers is part of neogaf or follow DF… A clear information ins the box is not going to hurt.

The average buyer doesn’t give a crap. They have more important shit to care about.
Only the hardcore fanbase splits hairs over this stuff.