Yes. I realize there's no point in arguing with these people.
Reddit finally bans "Coontown", "WatchN*****sDie", & animated child porn forums
- Thread starter Gattsu25
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Yes. I realize there's no point in arguing with these people.
I don't agree in taking it this far.
I agree with you 100% that drawings of CP are vile, repulsive, and abhorrent. It would be impossible for me to learn that someone I know enjoys stuff like this and still look at them the same way. If I were Reddit, there is no way in hell I would want this stuff on my site, and I would absolutely shut down threads and ban posters who put these sorts of drawings on there. In other words, I do not consider any of this to be "okay."
That said, I also don't see any good grounds for criminalizing it. The reason why CP is illegal (rightly of course) is because it inherently involves the victimization and/or rape of children. Of course that should be banned. But that underlying harm doesn't exist if we're talking about a drawing.
Maybe you could make the argument that seeing visual depictions of CP make pedophiles more likely to act out. That might be a rational basis for banning drawings, but it first requires that you demonstrate that that empirical statement is actually true. I don't see any particular reason to just automatically assume that it is.
My guess is that people who want these sort of drawings criminalized are just reacting to the fact that they're really, really offensive. But "it's icky" isn't a valid reason for banning something.
CadetMahoney
Member
don't matter to a judge interpreting the law which bans it, he'll still prosecute for having such drawings and not care about subtleties. . . see my link in a previous post where the guy was jailed.
Nope. They don't have to give a reason or anything to back it.
http://www.otakuusamagazine.com/Lat...d-for-Prohibited-Underage-Manga-Por-6003.aspx
Right right, 1000 y/o dragon bullshit whatever, any time anyone uses that 'defense' I imagine they're winking like "ha ha, we know they're really kids tho".
I would argue that the actual problem of child porn is the children being raped, not that there are pictures of it.
If it's "this inspires people!", the same argument can be made against a whole fucking lot of hentai and even more so against some kinds of actual porn.
You can defend something without agreeing with it.
Using this guilt by association argument is just a shitty way to shut down discussion.
I'm sorry one site on the internet doesn't want to host images of drawings of children being eroticized ?
If you ban animated CP, then people will just search for the real stuff. Whether you like it or not, there are people out there who have no control over their attraction to children. Although I definitely don't think there should be a subreddit devoted to animated CP (there are other places for stuff like that), I would much rather have people look at drawings then for them to look at actual children.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
The same argument is more or less made against racist imagery without much outcry
Just because pedophilia is an urge doesn't mean that it can't be exacerbated or inhibited by external influences
but guys guys. racist forums aren't racist because they are just words typed into a computer. the words don't do anything or hurt anyone: they are just words, sitting there. racist actions are reprehensible, but just typing about it hurts no one. we need to protect people from racist actions, not from harmless words floating around in cyber space. priorities people
But they don't actually think they're children. That's the thing. They see them differently than you or I do. I look at a loli and go "Yeah, proportions and anatomy of a little girl." while most of them never make that mental connection, like they (the lolis themselves) are of another species.
è£ ç²æªé¬¼ææ£
Banned
"They are depictions of children" is a rather weird understanding of loli, considering the proportions they are drawn with and the way they tend to be sexualized barely resembles real children beyond being short and lacking tits. That shit is pretty much it's own genre of sexual fetish depicting something that doesn't even exist in real life. I'm sure there are pedos who can use this as fap-material, but this whole idea about lolicons being child molesters in the making makes about as much sense as thinking that a furry is just one step away from fucking his own cat. A somewhat simple-minded train of thought.
Also, being amazed that those filthy pedos with anime avatars always come out of the woodwork to defend "anime child porn" (lol) is also rather bizarre, because if you honestly can't see why the concept of equating something that a dude scribbles on paper with actual children getting abused and fucked might be slightly contentious, then uhh...yeah, I just don't know.
Also, being amazed that those filthy pedos with anime avatars always come out of the woodwork to defend "anime child porn" (lol) is also rather bizarre, because if you honestly can't see why the concept of equating something that a dude scribbles on paper with actual children getting abused and fucked might be slightly contentious, then uhh...yeah, I just don't know.
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
Because racism is an idea, while raping children is very much not.
So let's ban violent video games because they could inspire murderous people.
uncelestial
Member
If there were any kind of study that showed that having access to loli/CP anime materials prevented people with pedophilic disorder from acting I would be more inclined to say, "it's entirely fucked up, but maybe it's doing good letting them have that outlet." But, intuitively, I have to think that it keeps their sexual attention trained on something it shouldn't be trained on, and a more effective exposure therapy would be steering them towards adult porn so they can start sexualizing that instead. I don't have much sympathy for people who defend CP anime for this reason -- I think it keeps some very sick people locked into a very sick mindset that they don't challenge themselves to overcome because they have their "harmless" pacification content.
Meanwhile, Reddit is trying to be a serious company, can ban anything it wants, and it absolutely makes sense that they would not want to be a host for shit like this. I think the people choosing to die on the CP anime hill on this thread should think about the issue more broadly than whether the images are of literal child victims.
Meanwhile, Reddit is trying to be a serious company, can ban anything it wants, and it absolutely makes sense that they would not want to be a host for shit like this. I think the people choosing to die on the CP anime hill on this thread should think about the issue more broadly than whether the images are of literal child victims.
I agree with what you say about the "icky therefore bannable" logic being greatly influential, like I said im probably biased since I find it fucking disgusting and regretfully even felt the same for some that have defended it in the past. When it comes to rape fantasies and the little of I know from BDSM, I consider them kinks, nothing wrong with that (rape fantasy is very common), the moment they become harmful to either party then they become an illness. Mislabeling BDSM people as rapists is wrong, mislabeling gamers as borderlines is wrong, mislabeling all persons that like loli as pedophiles is wrong too, consuming child pornography is itself is a risk conduct that will affect certain peoples with engaging physically, beyond me finding it disgusting, there is a reason why its harmful.
People that dabble in lolicon dont escalate when having their stuff taken away, nothing beyond anectodal evidence suggest that its some escape valve that keeps them from the hard stuff, like wsippel said populations are diverse, so diverse that the digital CP owner is very different from the one with physical material, with the guy that surfs the internet for loli being less likely to search for the photography or engaging. A ban will hurt no one and it might (supposedly) help a few.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
What in the flying fuck. What the fuck. What.
It depends entirely on the context and can't be compared apples to apples. We're essentially arguing art yes? Art has a purpose in its depictions and explicit examples of drawn rape and murder can either be distasteful or necessary to narrative... although many would argue at this point that rape isn't necessary but that's digressionary.
The point being, explicit depictions of illegal acts can be necessary from a narrative standpoint. Explicit depictions of pornographic material have only one purpose. You can shroud it in narrative, but porn is porn and it would be up to the discretion of a judge or jury to determine if the examples were pornographic in nature or not.
Pornographic depictions of children or people have sex with children have no other purpose than to get off people with paraphilias. There is little wiggle room, if you ask me, to claim narrative relevance when an expository depiction would do just as well.
Then there is art in the more classical sense. That has significantly more wiggle room because the context is usually intentionally vague. Naked cherubic depictions of children are common, but obviously not pornographic. An explicit pornographic scene painted by an artist could be said to have the purpose to shock or be thought-provoking. But owning that I think couldn't be considering owning "child porn" as much as owning "distasteful art".
So, to sum up my rambling post, if the drawing's sole purpose is for pornography and that can be proved in court then the person owning the drawing or painting the drawing should receive some kind of criminal punishment.
machemachete
Banned
Exacly this, loli doujins have all the rights to exist and the guys who like them doesn't mean that they are "trash" or "sexualise" children. I got plent of friends who have some loli doujins and are just normal guys like everyone else.
Racism is just pure hatred and surely it must dissapear but damn to all those high horses in this thread.
sensui-tomo
Member
*looks at a picture of a pencil drawing* Who did i harm?
I'm joking about looking at a picture but please answer that question. If it was a video, actual photograph of a kid i wouldn't disagree with you.
But on topic, Reddit can take whatever they want down, its their site.
partyphone
Banned
why is that the standard for banning it? it's fucking awful garbage.
TatteredHat
Member
I'd recon most people aren't really arguing whether or not loli doujins have a right to exist. (though I'm sure there are people here who will disagree, which is fine)
It's just that reddit is perfectly within their right to decide what they do and don't find appropriate content for their site.
It's just that reddit is perfectly within their right to decide what they do and don't find appropriate content for their site.
sensui-tomo
Member
So is guro, but nobody cares about mutilation porn and wants to check people who have blood fetishes and like looking at people being decapitated.. The problem i'm having is seeing poor logic which we could replace sex and children with murder and video games and its a downward spiral and logic gets thrown out the window.
I think it could be argued that child pornography in all forms is harmful to society as a whole and shouldn't be allowed. Of course, prohibition of specific things is never easy or popular.
That's better.
much better.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Children as sexual objects certainly is an idea
EdibleExplosives
Member
Sounds like a perfect plan!
partyphone
Banned
child fucking is a pretty firm line to draw. you're trying to group other illegal things with child rape as if they're the same. child rape is far and away worse.
Ricky Ricardo
Member
Nope. Say what you want about it not sexualizing children, but there's nothing "normal" about enjoying loli doujins.
sensui-tomo
Member
I have a question for you, please note i'm not trying to be offensive or anything and would just like to see some insight into your thought process. Do you believe that one gets to choose whom they are attracted to or they are born knowing whom said person is attracted to?
But was a real child fucked and has mental issues for the rest of their life that was drawn on that paper, that not real person? Thats the question, if drawed children have rights dont mutliated drawn corpses of people (being raped) too? Its not that far of a logical shift, wont argue that fucking a child is bad, we are in agreement there.
è£ ç²æªé¬¼ææ£
Banned
Well, if your standard for banning something is that it's fucking awful garbage, I've got to give it to you straight: the internet was a mistake, it's nothing but trash.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Jesus. Never knew this shit was on GAF.
Sexualization of children, normal.
Racism is pure hatred and it must disappear.
What the fuck is going on.
Peotical Injection
Member
While I absolutely hate that stuff like coontown and loli forums exist, don't you actively have to seek those forums out on Reddit? I never see any NSFW stuff on the front page of reddit? Or am I wrong?
EatinOlives
Member
You're not really "arguing", you're just stating your beliefs over and over again and expect people to just magically be convinced.
You also never addressed why fictional drawings of racist behavior is bad while simultaneously saying fictional drawings of CP are fine "because they're just drawings". Drawings or no, they still perpetuate and feed on a disgusting impulse. Sometimes it lets people have an "outlet", sometimes the only thing it does is encourage that behavior or develop it.
But that's not really convenient to your argument so I can see why you're bailing out instead of actually elaborating what you were saying.
partyphone
Banned
装甲悪鬼村正;174608391 said:
this is highly disingenuous and I hope that you know it.
defending child porn for the sake of child porn is pretty fucked up.
King Gilga
Member
Yes they are, they're disgusting pieces of sub human shit.
I'd put them at the same level as those in /r/coontown or w/e.
sensui-tomo
Member
So you're saying a person who has a fetish in looking in anime porn, yet 100% finds the idea of fucking a real child so disturbing wrong, is the same as a Racist asshole?
Can some people actually differentiate the difference between a person being raped and getting off on a fake idea, Like me laughing at a violent event in a movie, but if i saw same said event in life i'd be traumatized?
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
No way. Right?
I'm not looking to establish a level of disgusting assholry.
Hey bro, I'm just really into racist cartoons, really into; but, I find the idea of real racism in the world disturbingly wrong. Yah...about that.
I'm just not seeing the benefit of drawn child porn in any non-classical sense. As "art" it of course has a right to exist in private... but as loli doujin? That's a completely different context.
Also worse than murder, according to your logic.
That's better.
Fantastic.
Sorry to break to you but those "normal guys" you know aren't normal.
People have the right to create loli trash (there's an argument for why it should be banned, but that's a separate discussion altogether), but reddit is a private company that isn't obligated to faciliate or enable the sick freaks that enjoy it.
partyphone
Banned
yes
EdibleExplosives
Member
what the fucking christ is a loli doujin? I'd rather not google it.
Fantastic.
Sorry to break to you but those "normal guys" you know aren't normal.
Avatar quoting is incredibly immature. It only serves to alienate others, and is in fact against the rules, and many have been banned in the past for doing so.
I'm pretty sure they'll easily migrate to 4chan.
Independant manga drawn with highly sexualized and sometimes pornographic depictions of children.
Yes? So is going postal, GTA style. And?
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