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[Unknown Soldier]

I'm sure Microsoft expected to go down as well, but they sure as hell didn't expect Game Pass to plateau at 25 million subscribers.

It's fewer than that. MS renamed Xbox Live Gold and combined them into Gamepass sub numbers awhile back

The real number of Gamepass subs with the actual library access is around 20 million

 

[Shane89]

even my dog knew that

 

[Taur007]

The reason it makes sense for netflix, etc to use this model is because they are able to crank out cheap reality shows at a crazy pace to pad out their release schedules along with older big budget stuff. You can put a movie from 2006 on Netflix and people will watch it. You can't put a game from 2006 on gamepass as it exists because it would need work to run on modern hardware and people likely won't play it anyway.

Also the most popular modern games are GaaS. A person who is super into CoD or Fortnite doesn't care about having access to 100 games of varying quality. They just wanna crank through their battle pass and buy a Goku skin or whatever.

They should've pulled the plug on gamepass a while ago but they are weirdly committed to it. I don't think it was a terrible idea and I probably would've loved it as a broke teenager but it's basically killed their console business at this point.

GP hasn't killed a thing, MS themselves "killed" Xbox with their weak decision making and non existent marketing for GP and their games itself. I'm still running into plenty of people at work that don't even know wtf a "gamepass" is... even though its been around since 2017, that is a huge problem.

They're trash at marketing their ip, I don't see any commercials for any Xbox games the small moments I might watch some tv. Don't they have a surface deal with the NFL? Where are the playoff commercials? Superbowl ads? The last commercial I seen was for Starfield all the way back in 2023 and it sucked, showed absolutely NO gameplay, if I wasn't a gamer I wouldn't even have known wtf to think of it

They're too scared to flex their muscle too busy trying to befriend Sony meanwhile there's no type of reciprocation on Sony's end. If you ask me...everything NOT named call of duty should've been exclusive, same way Sony would have played it. Yes it may hurt sales tremendously up front but I think they would've been fine long term, they could've had a "ps3 esque" recovery all they had to do was keep their heads down and keep releasing great games but it's like they quit before they even got started even though I think this is more Satya than Phil's doing.

I still don't think Xbox is ever really dead though considering every gen starts at zero and they own the biggest ip in the world. All it takes is one exclusive COD at console launch to turn the tide but we know they won't have the heart to do thatif they were smart and really wanted to get around the FTC just have one of the studios (preferably sledgehammer) make a game called "Duty of Call" and make that one exclusive

 

[IntentionalPun]

I still buy MS's games on PC and don't subscribe to GPU or PCG.

I'm pretty selective so it's just not a great value to me as a PC gamer.

If I was an actual Xbox console gamer that might change though since I'd already be paying for online access I guess.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

How is that the quiet part?

MS pushed GP at the expense of the industry's health.

all the shills and fanboys either didn't want to see it (the quiet part), were ignorant or completely delusional

 

[DeepEnigma]

even my dog knew that

Doggo has more common sense than fanboys.

Best doggo.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

GP hasn't killed a thing

it literally killed games sales on Xbox.

What are we even doing here?

 

[OctopusBox]

No one takes journalists seriously. That's not what I'm talking about. And most of those sales are in China where they aren't reading IGN.

Is your position that near unanimous shit talking about this game on youtube, and forums doesn't impact sales negatively at all? GP probably saved Hellblade 2. I'm sure some people were willing to pay for a month of GP to try it but not $50 with all the people talking shit about it.

How many people were going to buy this game in the first place? I don't see anything about this game before release that enticed me to buy it. It just doesn't look or sound like a game with mass appeal. Every showing looked boring af.

 

[rickybooby87]

Mr. Spencer, I don't feel so good.

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

 

[WoJ]

People saying "duh" in this thread but roll back a few years and you had those slightly fishy industry insiders suggesting it doesn't canabalise sales

Business - Analysis - Sales-Age - MAT PISCATELLA (NPD): Still No Sign GamePass Cannibalizes Game Sales

Someone brings up Gears 5; Mat's response: Considering MS 1P games like Forza have continued to do well in spite of GamePass and that MLB The Show was #2 best-selling game on Xbox platforms for April (not counting digital sales, so in actuality it may've been #1 best-selling game there as...

www.neogaf.com

This right here. It wasn't that long ago those of us with any critical thinking skills said game pass was hurting sales and therefore developers. The pushback we got by people parroting "best deal in gaming" was insane.

Now Xbox is just.....sad.

 

[Moriarty1889]

How pitiful and all self inflicted. Gamepass being touted as the 'Best deal in gaming' while simultaneously ruining the Xbox brand. Who would have thought that a sub based gaming rental service would actually harm potential physical sales of said games???

 

[Jimmy_liv]

Of course the xbox game sales have declined. They want people to subscribe to Gamepass over buying individual games.... That's their business model.

 

[Elios83]

This is well known to Microsoft as well.
Their goal was to have a big investement phase to create a 80-100m userbase in a few years. After that the whole thing would become sustainable.
The big issue is that they miscalculated the appeal of a subscription service in the gaming market since games cannot be consumed like movies or music.
They're stuck with a 30m userbase no matter how many billions they have invested to add contents on it (including COD) and have lost actual full priced sales. In this way the whole thing will never be sustainable.
They're far too deep in the hole to fully backtrack so the only way going forward will be to constantly raise the price of the tiers with day one big games.
This generation has been a whole strategic debacle for MS.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

That's their business model.

 

[ResilientBanana]

I bought dead cells 4 times because of game pass. Maybe it's the games that actually suck.

 

[Ansphn]

No duh?

 

[Three]

I bought dead cells 4 times because of game pass. Maybe it's the games that actually suck.

so the correlation is that the games on gamepass actually suck and have 80% lower sales than other games? I don't think you know what you're saying here.

 

[bitbydeath]

Sony meanwhile there's no type of reciprocation on Sony's end.

Found Sony's reaction to watching Xbox choke.

 

[yogaflame]

Xbox series S, Gamepass and Activision & Bethesda acquisition are the three worse decision of MS Xbox that made them fell.

 

[ResilientBanana]

so the correlation is that the games on gamepass actually suck and have 80% lower sales than other games? I don't think you know what you're saying here.

Dead Cells was so good, I purchased it everywhere I could. But sometimes people buy games not realizing they are mediocre. Gamepass saved them from that mistake.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Xbox series S, Gamepass and Activision & Bethesda acquisition are the three worse decision of MS Xbox that made them fell.

They began their freefall way before that.

It's amazing to me that folks were so willfully blind to it.

 

[xanaum]

So, the future of Game Pass is gonna be just experimental indies?

With movie streaming, it's kinda similar, but games are way more expensive than most movies nowadays.

Can you imagine how much money Disney would've lost if they launched Inside Out 2 or Deadpool vs. Wolverine directly on their service?

Or how much Sony would've lost if Spider-Man 2 dropped straight to PS Plus?

 

[lh032]

Well obviously subscriptions hurt individual sales. I don't buy movies anymore, I watch them on my streaming services.

The real question is how much money the game made by being on Game Pass versus not. It was my understanding that Microsoft will subsidize game development costs for games slated to be Day Ones on game pass. Do the devs get more money based off of how many people play their game on GP?

If you think about it, these subscription deals are probably trap for most devs

Imagine nobody plays your game on gamepass. And Microsoft offering lower price for the sequel .

Now the dev is stuck with lower deal offering from Microsoft, and if they go for traditional game sales route, nobody would care

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

If you think about it, these subscription deals are probably trap for most devs

Imagine nobody plays your game on gamepass. And Microsoft offering lower price for the sequel .

Now the dev is stuck with lower deal offering from Microsoft, and if they go for traditional game sales route, nobody would care

If your game launched on GamePass and no one played it and yet it was still successful enough for this sequel you're talking about, then the game either sold very well despite GamePass, or that GamePass check was massive.

Developers are routinely coming back to these sub services. They are either getting satisfied with the monetary return, or we as gamers are failing them and they have no other option. I mean we see it a lot in the GamePass threads themselves, if the game isn't a blockbuster AAA title then the replies are all "trash month" etc etc.

Most of these games aren't games people are rushing out to buy in droves. And that's the best part of the service imho.

 

[FunkMiller]

...and, much like the streaming revolution, the more companies chase the subscription model, the more we're headed for a massive and cathartic collapse of the whole shit show. Yay.

 

[Barakov]

Good for our game bad fro everyone else's. I kinda just realized Phil Spencer is kinda like the Michael Pachter of executives.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Indiana Jones got name-dropped along with Hellblade 2 here, which means it didn't sell on Xbox either.

And we know it didn't sell on Steam either.

It's not looking good for that one.

 

[Det]

I'm sure Microsoft expected to go down as well, but they sure as hell didn't expect Game Pass to plateau at 25 million subscribers.

Nadella was about to close Xbox, and he had already closed studios. Phill came up with the idea of "look at how successful Netflix is, let's make a Netflix of video games?"

The idea of whoever created the gamepass was not to work, it was to keep their job for as long as possible.

Phill did it, he will make it to retirement

 

[Det]

Indiana Jones got name-dropped along with Hellblade 2 here, which means it didn't sell on Xbox either.

And we know it didn't sell on Steam either.

It's not looking good for that one.

My prediction for all of this, all of the Xbox, Activision, Bethesda... The more than 100 billion in subsidies and purchases poured into the Xbox will become nothing.
Little by little everything they bought wears out, an example is Bethesda from Skyrim to Starfield.

There were so many years of fake hype with Phill Spencer saying that "the best of our E3 is what we're going to present next year" that people started to ignore the Xbox.
It's the same as you believing a liar several times, when he tells the truth you simply ignore him.

In the real world, the Xbox is the worst a brand could be: NOTHING

 

[Alan Wake]

Subscription services increase the chance of me playing a game by 80%.

This is the beauty of Game Pass. You can try games you wouldn't dare to just buy on a hunch. Playing is not paying, though.

 

[laynelane]

This is the main reason why Game Pass will never be on Sony and Nintendo systems. I still remember all the talk about how it was inevitable, but it never made financial sense (just like how Game Pass increases sales never made sense).

 

[intheinbetween]

So, the future of Game Pass is gonna be just experimental indies?

With movie streaming, it's kinda similar, but games are way more expensive than most movies nowadays.

Can you imagine how much money Disney would've lost if they launched Inside Out 2 or Deadpool vs. Wolverine directly on their service?

Or how much Sony would've lost if Spider-Man 2 dropped straight to PS Plus?

That's a bold claim. Making a game can be expensive or affordable, as movies. There are indie movies with a laughable budget that have made millions (The Blair Witch Project) while movies with millionaire budget have failed in the box office worldwide.

Also, Disney has already debuted movies on D+ that haven't been screened at cinemas, plus Netflix and Amazon Prime Video movies and shows have been released only on their streaming platforms, missing cinemas and retail releases.

So, I disagree with that statement, streaming and subscription platforms are here to stay, as they are profitable

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Yes it reduced sales for xbox games.

Who are getting all the GP revenue.

They must've done the math to see if its worth it or not.

I mean, I play all xbox stuff on gamepass. Even if its cheaper to buy it. Gamepass is what I associate xbox with now.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Yes it reduced sales for xbox games.

Who are getting all the GP revenue.

They must've done the math to see if its worth it or not.

I mean, I play all xbox stuff on gamepass. Even if its cheaper to buy it. Gamepass is what I associate xbox with now.

If they had done the math, they wouldn't be crying about:

"how the Xbox business is not strong enough", and
"increasing Game Pass price multiple times", and
"removing day one games from the $15 tier", and
"significantly reducing the number of games joining Game Pass", and
"releasing their exclusives games on PlaySTation for money."

They obviously didn't do the math correctly, which is why they are struggling and running around like a headless chicken now.

 

[Skifi28]

They must've done the math to see if its worth it or not.

I'm sure they did, but the math was about undercutting everyone to have 100 million subs by now which didn't really pan out. Seeing all their recent moves, I don't think they ever accounted for the situation they currently find themselves in.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

If they had done the math, they wouldn't be crying about:

"how the Xbox business is not strong enough", and
"increasing Game Pass price multiple times", and
"removing day one games from the $15 tier", and
"significantly reducing the number of games joining Game Pass", and
"releasing their exclusives games on PlaySTation for money."

They obviously didn't do the math correctly, which is why they are struggling and running around like a headless chicken now.

Finding faults in a 15 billion revenue company accounting, while not being privy to any info whatsoever.

I'm sure they did, but the math was about undercutting everyone to have 100 million subs by now which didn't really pan out. Seeing all their recent moves, I don't think they ever accounted for the situation they currently find themselves in.

They have increased prices recently. That should adjust it for a lower subscriber count.

 

[Jimmy_liv]

Depends if they can subs in Gamepass up.
20m in subs is a hell of a lot of monthly revenue.

 

[Boss Mog]

"Try being an indie game now that's not on GamePass".

So, sell 80% more copies?

Your math is wrong, it would be selling 400% more copies.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Finding faults in a 15 billion revenue company accounting, while not being privy to any info whatsoever.

So, if they are faultless, does that mean they have reached the following numbers? Or has the 15-billion-revenue company failed at its goal?

 

[vaibhavpisal]

So, if they are faultless, does that mean they have reached the following numbers? Or has the 15-billion-revenue company failed at its goal?

This is not accounting work lol.

They can surely figure out how much they are investing in developing games, and how much they should charge to cover it from gamepass subscribers.

Not sure how is that related to the chart you posted.

 

[Heisenberg007]

This is not accounting work lol.

They can surely figure out how much they are investing in developing games, and how much they should charge to cover it from gamepass subscribers.

Not sure how is that related to the chart you posted.

Who's talking about "accounting" here? lol

We're talking about the business viability of the model. You said "they would have done their math". That "math" doesn't only mean accounting. It also includes business forecasting. And the chart I posted shows that they missed their forecasted goals.

So obviously whatever numbers they ran turned out to be useless.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Well obviously subscriptions hurt individual sales. I don't buy movies anymore, I watch them on my streaming services.

The real question is how much money the game made by being on Game Pass versus not. It was my understanding that Microsoft will subsidize game development costs for games slated to be Day Ones on game pass. Do the devs get more money based off of how many people play their game on GP?

Streaming only works because Netflix makes their own content.

 

[Astray]

Indiana Jones got name-dropped along with Hellblade 2 here, which means it didn't sell on Xbox either.

And we know it didn't sell on Steam either.

It's not looking good for that one.

Starfield too lol.

 

[MayauMiao]

Why would I spend $70-$80 for a game that I could finish in a day or two, while binge other games when I can do it on the cheap with just a month pass?

I don't even need to continue monthly subscription after that and if I like to replay the game I would just purchase rent it someday on Steam when its dirt cheap.

 

[Kokoloko85]

How did stinky people on forums know better than suits and "experts" that spread lies to there discord and have it trickle down to the masses via shills and idiot fans….

 

[ProtoByte]

Streaming only works because Netflix makes their own content.

Streaming works because TV is a different medium.

 

[rkofan87]

if i like a game on gp i will buy it
on ps5

 

[Heisenberg007]

Starfield too lol.

Yes, but at least Starfield sold somewhat okay on Steam. People bought the game before they realized how crap it is.

With Hellblade 2 and Indiana Jones, folks didn't even buy the game on either platform. They just straight-up bombed. And from what I hear, Indiana Jones is actually a good game. But it suffered nevertheless.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Finding faults in a 15 billion revenue company accounting, while not being privy to any info whatsoever.

Especially funny when almost all of that stuff he's whining about are things that all sub services do. Change the service, increase price, etc. It's done every single time. Did he really expect GamePass to be any different?

He's also talking out of his ass about "significantly less games", but what else is new. Now he's claiming "apparently Indy is a good game" but before launch he was claiming the short review embargo before launch confirms the game would be a rushed buggy mess