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Remember R E A C H |OT2|
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squidhands
Member
Just strolled around their version of Sanctuary. Holy shit, what a beauty.Ramirez said:
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
B_Rik_Schitthaus said:
The maps are still made specifically for multiplayer, even if they are in the campaign as well. They wouldn't just throw in some random section of the campaign, add weapons and call it a multiplayer map...they do a lot of testing, believe it.
Grimm Fandango
Member
Jay-B said:
In all likelihood it was done to save disc space.
Aggrotek
Member
Just uploaded my first Bungie Pro vid to Youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmQUT6hxsAk
I think I am going to stick with HD though, SD quality isn't very good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmQUT6hxsAk
I think I am going to stick with HD though, SD quality isn't very good.
Very much agreed re: map collection. They are just not as good, period. ESPECIALLY BTB maps, which got shafted due to the introduction of Invasion.
They either play well but are bland/safe (Asylum), or they have a gimmick that just doesn't work (Spire), or funnel fighting all to one place (elevator room on Sword Base).
The only "classic" maps IMO are Powerhouse and Countdown, both of which I quite enjoy.
A lot of the maps in Reach are just... plain. Even Boardwalk, a map I enjoy a decent amount, lacks the verticality and dynamic nature of a map like Ivory Tower. On Ivory Tower, I think about the fact that on the top-most level, you can jump down to the bottom, over in the corner (where the needler spawns). Little details like that almost certainly were introduced thanks to exhaustive play testing, in order to give the player a few more traversal options. It's clear the Reach maps don't have this same care put in, overall.
It's also the reason why the map is so much more versatile. It works great as an asymmetrical CTF, as a slayer arena, and even works fairly well for Multi-Team, considering how small it is. It works nicely with DMR starts, OR AR starts.
The crazy thing is, Ivory Tower isn't even that great of a map! It just outshines Reach's. A map like Asylum is probably just as good as IT for pure Team Slayer. But then you remember that IT works for virtually all <8 player modes, whereas Asylum doesn't.
Reach's maps are just much less dynamic. Boneyard, Sword Base, and Boardwalk all end up playing out with all the fighting taking place in just a couple places. Compare that to, say, High Ground, or Snowbound, Guardian, or even... IDK, Epitaph. I didn't love Epitaph, but at least the fight moved around the map and varied game to game! That automatically makes it better than Boardwalk.
The issue is that in EVERY category, Reach is outshined. Asymmetrical small team? High Ground, Last Resort > Powerhouse. Symmetrical BTB? Valhalla > Blood Gulch.
They either play well but are bland/safe (Asylum), or they have a gimmick that just doesn't work (Spire), or funnel fighting all to one place (elevator room on Sword Base).
The only "classic" maps IMO are Powerhouse and Countdown, both of which I quite enjoy.
A lot of the maps in Reach are just... plain. Even Boardwalk, a map I enjoy a decent amount, lacks the verticality and dynamic nature of a map like Ivory Tower. On Ivory Tower, I think about the fact that on the top-most level, you can jump down to the bottom, over in the corner (where the needler spawns). Little details like that almost certainly were introduced thanks to exhaustive play testing, in order to give the player a few more traversal options. It's clear the Reach maps don't have this same care put in, overall.
It's also the reason why the map is so much more versatile. It works great as an asymmetrical CTF, as a slayer arena, and even works fairly well for Multi-Team, considering how small it is. It works nicely with DMR starts, OR AR starts.
The crazy thing is, Ivory Tower isn't even that great of a map! It just outshines Reach's. A map like Asylum is probably just as good as IT for pure Team Slayer. But then you remember that IT works for virtually all <8 player modes, whereas Asylum doesn't.
Reach's maps are just much less dynamic. Boneyard, Sword Base, and Boardwalk all end up playing out with all the fighting taking place in just a couple places. Compare that to, say, High Ground, or Snowbound, Guardian, or even... IDK, Epitaph. I didn't love Epitaph, but at least the fight moved around the map and varied game to game! That automatically makes it better than Boardwalk.
The issue is that in EVERY category, Reach is outshined. Asymmetrical small team? High Ground, Last Resort > Powerhouse. Symmetrical BTB? Valhalla > Blood Gulch.
GM Bullfrog
Member
Grimm Fandango said:
That was my assumption as well.
bobs...onGaf
Member
Haha, so since someone rendered my video in HD I was going to upload it to Youtube. I loaded up Youtube and on the frontpage I saw that Bungie had already uploaded it! Its going to be one of the Blame Stosh videos at the end of the weekly update.
I guess it was Stosh or Urk that must have rendered it in HD then, thanks guys.
Link to the Bungie uploaded version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS_h0RR0rgI&feature=sub
(I like the description and title they used SO much more than the one I used lol. Is it possible for me to edit my Fileshared files name and description without having to take it down first?)
I guess it was Stosh or Urk that must have rendered it in HD then, thanks guys.
Link to the Bungie uploaded version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS_h0RR0rgI&feature=sub
(I like the description and title they used SO much more than the one I used lol. Is it possible for me to edit my Fileshared files name and description without having to take it down first?)
Rahxephon91
Banned
God I hate this. This mp design seems to be popping up everywhere and it really needs to be avoided. The fun of Halo maps in the past where the incredibly amount of ways to get to your target that seemed actually useful and then other side was how you were going to defend them.
The Wise Old Man
Member
AllIsOneIsNone said:
I don't doubt it, but the end effect is a multiplayer component that feels a little cheap at the moment, due to the familiarity of the SP shoehorned maps and the limited number of them. ODST did the same thing: they introduced the firefight concept in the SP campaign and then had us replaying many of the same maps online in firefight mode. It made the entire experience feel a little thin.
Rahxephon91
Banned
lol That video was pretty bad ass.
Rahxephon91 said:
Yup. I touched on this in my post. Previous Halo MP map design seemed to focus almost exclusively on PLAYER MOVEMENT. If you give a player lots of ways to get to where they want to go, the rest stands a good chance of working itself out. Guardian is another good example.
Good MP maps fold in on themselves lots of times, giving players lots of options. That's wy Powerhouse works in Reach.
Think about a map like Narrows. Simple, spartan. Almost to an extreme. And yet it still had THREE ways to traverse the map! Now think about Boardwalk.
Boardwalk is larger than Narrows. The three instances of crossing the map for Narrows isn't exactly a good thing, especially when one is a man-cannon where everybody sees you, and the second/third crosses are basically the same function except one path is above the other.GDJustin said:
I haven't had any map movement issues with Boardwalk whatsoever. The only problem I've seen people rant on here about is weapon placements.
Devin Olsen
Member
It would be nice if you guys could step us through the process of getting a map change or game-type edit into Match Making.ManCannon said:
To clarify what I mean.
The game has been out for close to a month and there are still issues with flag return times and bad spawns (among others). Those issues would take minutes to fix in Forge, yet a month later and they are still not updated. I understand Bungie is busy and there is a process involved in getting those changes put into MM; but what is that process? why does it take over a month to edit a flag return time, or to move spawns?
I do not mean this to come off as rude (though I am sure it has). I just know that this is a common question throughout the community that we would appreciate clarification on.
*** I need to extra clarify that I am not being a hater or trying to stir up shit, I just would like to know how the system works ***
squidhands
Member
What do you look for in a decent map? I've always wanted to get feedback from people who are really good at this game about what constitutes a good map. Is it something you just click with once your on it or are there specific things you look for?Ramirez said:
ElRenoRaven
Member
Damn I love a come back. Just had a team slayer game. One asshole and his guest quit right at the loading screen. So it's automatically 2 on 4. Needless to say the other guy and I went to town. We not only kept it close but started pulling ahead. At this point the first quit on their team happened followed by number 2 about 6 mins later. We won it 44-30.
spermatic cord
Member
Nothing good will ever come from forge.
Ugh, Boardwalk just doesn't do it for me. Neither do the other maps in this game. I understand they are built for MP purposes but the designs are just lame. I like maps designed like Chill Out or Damnation. Crazy turns and corners, not straight away maps like Sword Base and Boardwalk. Countdown is cool. Powerhouse is decent. Stuff like that.
I think it's the case that the number of game types and the addition of Firefight have hurt the initial MP offerings. Now, I generally don't play the 4v4 space in MP, so I can't speak to that much. BTB is my thing, and I could play it forever in Halo 3 (and basically did). But there's nothing in the current map set to tempt me into the playlist.GDJustin said:
Spire was clearly designed as an Invasion map, and it shows. It played well even though I wasn't familiar with it yet on the game or two I had on it. But a BTB map it's not. Boneyard wasn't a big fan of in the Beta and I don't see it working for BTB, though I haven't tried it yet. Hemorrhage I've written about before, but I think its a bad, fatally flawed map. I appreciate the fan service in bringing it back as part of Forge World, but every game on it has been pure misery; it's a huge step back from Valhalla. Paradiso I can't speak to much yet, but my one game on it was confined to a small space thanks to the tanks. In hindsight, the pairing of Valhalla and Sandtrap was a much stronger initial BTB set.
I almost think focusing on the core game types at launch and then introducing Invasion as a DLC bundle - the game type and maps - would have helped the initial launch map selection.
Firefight I love but I'm awaiting the first major overhaul before I dive into much play outside of Score Attack. What I enjoy about FF is challenge, and that's the only place where it's had (and there, the challenge is in the score). I'd love to see a Legendary Score Attack playlist.
The resources just seem spread too thin in MP and too concentrated in Firefight, but the scale and speed of the first playlist update has me hopeful that it will look quite different a month from now. By then we should have some community maps in the mix and maybe some DLC news to boot. Until then I'll probably be sticking to Campaign, Score Attack, customs and Forging maps. Which is actually quite a lot to do, which is why I don't mind the wait too much. Were I a bigger fan of 4v4 MP I'd probably be less patient.
squidhands
Member
Spoken like a man who has utterly failed at it.spermatic cord said:
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
ManCannon said:
Why is every map littered with power weapons that respawn every ten seconds?
What's the justification for adding the bases above Sniper spawn on Asylum?
What's the point of a level cap for a game that only awards you costmetic changes and nothing else?
There you go. Trust me, I'm not the only oen who wants to know about these issues.
spermatic cord
Member
Map movement brah!Domino Theory said:
Grimm Fandango
Member
ManCannon said:
Is there going to be a fix for snipers camping up here in Pinnacle? Really annoying. And yeah, also fix it in Asylum.
electricpirate
Member
Ramirez said:
I'm just curious, what's the issue with the weapons on it when playing at a competitive level? It's basically only got 2 power weapons on the entire thing, seems like that would make it pretty hard to control.
Joke post?Raiden said:@2nd video: You always stay in one place in a map? Most of your kills are either sniping people who are shooting other, of with the shotgun while you're camping the base and other people trying to get to you 2.
But hey to each his own
Why would I, in MULTI TEAM of all places, run around the map where people are constantly spawning all around me? I'm not a moron. I'm not gonna lose my power weapons that easily. I'm gonna work with my teammate and control a part of the map that gives us the best advantage and sight-lines on approaching enemies. Especially on a small map like Asylum with six different teams spawning all over the place. It's generally a good idea to use power weapons in situations that benefit their strengths.
And yes, in my other video I'm "camping" the yellow lift with the shotgun. If you have ever played on Sword Base you would understand that if you want to win then you need to control the top. We generally prefer the yellow side rather than the red side because you can get the other team to spawn in lower break room quite often. If they don't spawn there then they sometimes spawn lower yellow, and that's why you have someone with the sword/shotgun watch the yellow lift. It's not like I sit at the lift the whole game. We call out the other team's locations and move around the map accordingly.
Do you not use teamwork/strategy when you play Halo? It sounds like you just run around maps with your head cut off. But hey, to each his own I guess.
Shake Appeal
Member
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileShare.aspx?player=MLG GametypesLouis Wu said:
It's pretty great, honestly. You can't get on top of the bases, the snipers are better positioned, the floor is flat instead of grass, there aren't two shotguns respawning every 90 seconds, it doesn't have framerate issues (and in fact, you can't see from one sniper to the other because the bridges are staggered).
Shake Appeal
Member
On top of it.enzo_gt said:
Miggytronz
Member
Grimm Fandango said:Is there going to be a fix for snipers camping up here in Pinnacle? Really annoying. And yeah, also fix it in Asylum.
um what do you expect, same thing was going on in H2, how about getting the other sniper and killing him so he doesnt snipe you or your teammates?
camping comment LuLz
Damn, I don't remember even getting 23 kills in a single game yet, and it will much less likely happen with me trying to force it.
Get me mentioned somewhere in there, in the most random way. If that's not the kind of special request you meant, then hints about the October playlist update #2 and the new forge maps included.ManCannon said:
Neuromancer
Member
They're a lot more expensive which is why I went for these ones. But yeah the SE ones look bad ass.Hypertrooper said:
electricpirate said:
A sword, and a shotgun. Competent players can lock the top down easily by simply letting those guys crouch in corners, there are plenty up top to do this in.
Anyways, just played some Arena Cage, and everyone in the game were forced to use jetpacks after a couple of guys started getting on top of every building in the map and donging. As I saw all of these rooftop shenanigans going on I just shook my head and asked myself if this is what Halo has become. :lol So sad.
I'm also coming to the realization that a lot of these Halo 2 maps should have stayed in Halo 2, Pinnacle and Reflection for me personally just do not play well with Reach's rules. Reflection could be helped a lot by the number of power weapons being reduced greatly. Pinnacle is so dominated by the snipers it's disgusting, Ascension was the same I guess, but add in DMRs and you can't even move around on that map most of the time.
Random ranting, yay.
Grimm Fandango
Member
Ramirez said:
I really hate this. Jetpacking should only be used to take shortcuts, not to take advantage of a level's geometry. If you can get somewhere only with a jetpack, it shouldn't exist like that IMO.
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