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[Trasher]

Thanks for looking into it, good to know it's been identified.

Gossett says the fix should be in shortly. It's only affecting the newly updated playlist offerings. Absolute latest the fix will be in is next Tuesday.

Gossett says the fix should be in shortly. It's only affecting the newly updated playlist offerings. Absolute latest the fix will be in is next Tuesday.

 

[Grimm Fandango]

Right now, everything except two playlists is social matchmaking plain and simple. And with that, you get all the flaws.

Again there is true skill in every multiplayer playlist, it's just hidden.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

Again there is true skill in every multiplayer playlist, it's just hidden.

How does that influence if you're going to get paired with quitters at all? According to that logic, in a year or so, all the quitters should be being paired up with eachother while I get to play with people who don't quit and play legitimately.

Or what's happening now will still happen and TrueSkill or MagicMatchmaking or whatever fancy name they've come up won't do much.

 

[Grimm Fandango]

How does that influence if you're going to get paired with quitters at all? According to that logic, in a year or so, all the quitters should be being paired up with eachother while I get to play with people who don't.

Or what's happening now will still happen.

It's really not much different than Halo 3 from what I heard. You just can't see a number next to your gamertag. Give it time and you'll be paired up with more appropriate gamers.

 

[jizzlobber]

yeh initially I tried hanging around when the rest of my team quit, but after being spawn killed for the rest of the game and not getting any extra credit I figured it isn't worth the frustration, time and battering of my k/d (which is shitty anyway).

you just have to quit yourself when that happens.

quitters are the scum of Halo, I don't care if you don't like the gametype or whatever, you should have the courtesy and decency to hang around, one quitter is enough to ruin the game for everyone else.

And the penalty is piss weak, it hasn't changed anything.

while i'm complaining... I like to throw grenades and use the grenade launcher, if my team mate wants to jump in front of me when i'm throwing a sticky nade, or if he tried to pummel an opponent I stuck... well that's their fault, and when asked if they'd like to boot their team mate, it's ALWAYS a yes, even thought it's obviously accidental.

I only boot when someone is being a jerk, and so should you.

and why is falling off a cliff in rocket race counted as a betrayal?
you get spun all over the place, it's easy to fall off.
i've been booted from rocket race for this reason.

 

[Squall ASF]

How does that influence if you're going to get paired with quitters at all? According to that logic, in a year or so, all the quitters should be being paired up with eachother while I get to play with people who don't.

Or what's happening now will still happen.

It matches you up with people around your level so if you're sticking it out and gaining experience, you're eventually going to be playing with like minded and habitual players. Those that quit are not gaining as many 'points' towards their invisible rank and will therefore, stay behind playing people around the level they are at. So if you keep playing and performing well, you should break through that pack eventually. The changes and improvements Bungie installs should help allieviate some of the quitting as well, especially with niche gametypes getting their own hopper.

 

[electricpirate]

Rank drops didn't do shit to prevent quitters in H3, I have no idea why people think they would do shit to prevent quitters in Reach.

Beef the Quit ban!

(outside of BTB, I haven't actually had issues with quitters, at it's worst it's been far better than Halo 3 in Team Slayer and objective lists.)

 

[jizzlobber]

It matches you up with people around your level so if you're sticking it out and gaining experience, you're eventually going to be playing with like minded and habitual players. Those that quit are not gaining as many 'points' towards their invisible rank and will therefore, stay behind playing people around the level they are at. So if you keep playing and performing well, you should break through that pack eventually. The changes and improvements Bungie installs should help allieviate some of the quitting as well, especially with niche gametypes getting their own hopper.

Quitters go straight into another game, they don't quit every game.
they might even earn more cred by doing well in the next game while you're being outnumbered and flogged like rhianna

 

[DiabolicalBagel]

Really happy to be able to finally post this.





Hope you folks enjoy the read. =)

Nice, bookmarked for a read through later on.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

It's really not much different than Halo 3 from what I heard. You just can't see a number next to your gamertag. Give it time and you'll be paired up with more appropriate gamers.

Except in halo 3, I'd be paired with 45's in Team Slayer and could bet money that they weren't going to quit and will probably try their hardest. Like I said, I could play for a solid year and there's absolutely nothing there to keep other people from quitting, whether they're a private or lt colonel. Without anything going down for quitting (credits, exp), and without a system to pair up quitters together, it's not going to change.

It matches you up with people around your level so if you're sticking it out and gaining experience, you're eventually going to be playing with like minded and habitual players. Those that quit are not gaining as many 'points' towards their invisible rank and will therefore, stay behind playing people around the level they are at. So if you keep playing and performing well, you should break through that pack eventually. The changes and improvements Bungie installs should help allieviate some of the quitting as well, especially with niche gametypes getting their own hopper.

So how many games do I need to play without quitting before I'm not playing with them anymore? What length of time? I enjoy this game, but that "it'll get better over time, don't give up!" stuff is really weak coming from Bungie, and I don't have the patience to deal with it for an indeterminate amount of time. Especially as others have said, sometimes you're forced to quit after others do and you're being spawncamped etc., which according to this system, puts you on the same level as the original quitters.

A cycle where nothing happens.

 

[Hugbot]

Without anything going down for quitting (credits, exp), and without a system to pair up quitters together, it's not going to change.

.

 

[timetokill]

The quitters are one thing, the people that go "afk" for entire matches are another. Bungie should have a timer checking for input... go 2 minutes in a game with no input at all and you're booted.

 

[Neuromancer]

Here's my idea (Bungie should hire me):

If you quit more than once on any given day, your only playlist option will be Quitter's Purgatory. Successfully complete 3 games in that playlist and you'll go back into general population.

The quitters are one thing, the people that go "afk" for entire matches are another. Bungie should have a timer checking for input... go 2 minutes in a game with no input at all and you're booted.

OK I have no solution for this one. I hate dirty AFK'ers much more than quitters.

 

[timetokill]

OK I have no solution for this one. I hate dirty AFK'ers much more than quitters.

What about the solution I just proposed?

 

[jizzlobber]

The quitters are one thing, the people that go "afk" for entire matches are another. Bungie should have a timer checking for input... go 2 minutes in a game with no input at all and you're booted.

oh yeah, not fun in rocket race, if you respawn and you aren't the driver you need to flip your own goose 'till you fall off, then get back into the drivers seat before being killed. :lol

 

[Hugbot]

If you quit more than once on any given day, your only playlist option will be Quitter's Purgatory. Successfully complete 3 games in that playlist and you'll go back into general population.

Infection on Hemorrhage
Rocket Race on The Cage
I wish VIP was still in.

 

[Squall ASF]

So how many games do I need to play without quitting before I'm not playing with them anymore? What length of time? I enjoy this game, but that "it'll get better over time, don't give up!" stuff is really weak coming from Bungie, and I don't have the patience to deal with it for an indeterminate amount of time. Especially as others have said, sometimes you're forced to quit after others do and you're being spawncamped, which according to this system, puts you on the same level as the other quitters apparently.

This is still early on in the games life, man. You have tons of players that don't stick with Halo that are playing it while it's hot and before other games come out (especially the next COD). Once they move on, you'll have mostly the hardcore Halo crowd who are more inclined to enjoy the gametypes and playstyle and will be less likely to quit, at least moreso than any past Halo game. If you want to compare to Halo 3 and 45's not quitting, you need to play Arena. Arena is Reach's 'serious' rank area where people will be far less inclined to quit. All these other game types are akin to social hoppers and that's how they should be thought of. If you can't seem to escape quitting and don't want to play Arena, then play with friends. There are plenty of HaloGaffers that are willing to play and you can send friend requests to the ocassional good player that ends up on your team. This really is nothing new if you played Halo 2 and 3. I know it's not comforting to hear 'keep playing' but it's true, it will get better over time.

 

[Domino Theory]

Infection on Hemorrhage
Rocket Race on The Cage
I wish VIP was still in.

Knowing the Halo community, I'd say they'd actually enjoy all of those games.

 

[Trasher]

What about the solution I just proposed?

One thing that might help is to force people back out into the lobby after a game finishes, and make them decide when to search for another game on their own rather than automate it. As it is now I bet there are people who finish a game and set their controller down and go off and do something else while they don't know that they are continuing to automatically search for and join games.

 

[Sill4]

oh yeah, not fun in rocket race, if you respawn and you aren't the driver you need to flip your own goose 'till you fall off, then get back into the drivers seat before being killed. :lol

I just realized your name is Jizzlobber. As in, an individual who projects jizz through the air. That's nasty.....yet strangely curious. Like those 'World's Tiniest Horse' attractions at carnivals. I know it's not really a tiny horse, and paying to see it is a waste of money. It's probably just sitting there in it's own shit or something. But intense curiosity gets the better of me and I pay.

 

[Sobriquet]

Why do people go AFK? What's the point?

 

[Grimm Fandango]

Except in halo 3, I'd be paired with 45's in Team Slayer and could bet money that they weren't going to quit and will probably try their hardest. Like I said, I could play for a solid year and there's absolutely nothing there to keep other people from quitting, whether they're a private or lt colonel. Without anything going down for quitting (credits, exp), and without a system to pair up quitters together, it's not going to change.

I agree quitters deserve harsher punishment especially for repeat offenders. But while there is no number next to their name or a cR penalty, their Trueskill is still taking a hit whether they realize it or not. And they will be paired with lower teammates if they realize it or not.

Just give it more time and you'll be with a more competitive team.

 

[Hugbot]

Why do people go AFK? What's the point?

that fat cR match bonus, yo.

Also "give it time" is just a terrible excuse for a flawed system.

 

[Domino Theory]

Why do people go AFK? What's the point?

Two that I can think of:

a) If there's a challenge that requires you to complete X games of FF or MP (or complete a round of FF MM without dying), they'll just sit there and keep cycling through games since MM automatically re-searches for you at the end of a game

b) You get "Game Complete" credits (the longer the game takes, the more credits). So it's one way to farm credits without really doing anything.

These are all provided that the person doing such a thing doesn't care about their K/D at all.

 

[timetokill]

One thing that might help is to force people back out into the lobby after a game finishes, and make them decide when to search for another game on their own rather than automate it. As it is now I bet there are people who finish a game and set their controller down and go off and do something else while they don't know that they are continuing to automatically search for and join games.

Yeah probably. But I think Bungie is proud of the "stay with the people you just played with" system they have right now.

I figure a timer just checking for input shouldn't be that difficult.

 

[Sobriquet]

Two that I can think of:

a) If there's a challenge that requires you to complete X games of FF or MP (or complete a round of FF MM without dying), they'll just sit there and keep cycling through games since MM automatically re-searches for you at the end of a game

b) You get "Game Complete" credits (the longer the game takes, the more credits). So it's one way to farm credits without really doing anything.

These are all provided that the person doing such a thing doesn't care about their K/D at all.

Makes sense, I guess. But so, so lame.

I had a guy on my team who would repeatedly commit suicide (when he wasn't shooting down my shields). I just don't get it. I reported him, and the next game he ended up on the other team. He did the same thing. But at least that time he was an easy target.

 

[Feorax]

Why do people go AFK? What's the point?

People finish a match and then put the controller down and do something else for 5 mins. They forget the game puts you straight back in to another match if you leave it.

 

[Domino Theory]

I had a guy on my team who would repeatedly commit suicide (when he wasn't shooting down my shields). I just don't get it. I reported him, and the next game he ended up on the other team. He did the same thing. But at least that time he was an easy target.

Talk to Trasher about that one.

 

[Squall ASF]

Makes sense, I guess. But so, so lame.

I had a guy on my team who would repeatedly commit suicide (when he wasn't shooting down my shields). I just don't get it. I reported him, and the next game he ended up on the other team. He did the same thing. But at least that time he was an easy target.

Some very sad and very pathetic people garner more pleasure out of griefing others than actually playing the game. My theory is that they are complete garbage at the game and after crying their little hearts out, they decide to play the game incorrectly to try and scrap some pathetic level of enjoyment out of it. Just to make sure, you know you can choose to not match up with a specific player again, right? Though it seems to fail if you play at later hours and there aren't a lot of people in a particular hopper.

 

[brokenwatch]

Yeah probably. But I think Bungie is proud of the "stay with the people you just played with" system they have right now.

I figure a timer just checking for input shouldn't be that difficult.

There already is one. You get kicked out if you haven't moved recently.

 

[timetokill]

There already is one. You get kicked out if you haven't moved recently.

That so? Doesn't seem to work in the matches I'm in. I just see guys stand there for entire matches.

 

[TheOddOne]

Two that I can think of:

a) If there's a challenge that requires you to complete X games of FF or MP (or complete a round of FF MM without dying), they'll just sit there and keep cycling through games since MM automatically re-searches for you at the end of a game

b) You get "Game Complete" credits (the longer the game takes, the more credits). So it's one way to farm credits without really doing anything.

These are all provided that the person doing such a thing doesn't care about their K/D at all.

Why can't people just play the game, you get the fun and excitement plus points at the end. SMH humanity.

 

[Gui_PT]

There already is one. You get kicked out if you haven't moved recently.

What? I doubt that's correct.

 

[GM Bullfrog]

It's quite consistent. The enemy count seems to vary slightly based on the post game report because dudes that kill each other or themselves don't count as a kill if you haven't done any damage to them.

I believe some individual squads such as the boss wave can vary in mix, but not number, slightly.

I have noticed that on Sniper Attack on Courtyard the number of Elites in the final wave can either be 4 or 8. If you are looking for a high score, you want the 8. I'm sure the same thing is present in other game types/maps.

What? I doubt that's correct.

Pretty sure urk confirmed a while back that after 2 games you get removed before going into another game.

 

[Gui_PT]

Pretty sure urk confirmed a while back that after 2 games you get removed before going into another game.

You have to not move for 2 entire games before you're kicked? :lol :lol

 

[Domino Theory]

You have to not move for 2 entire games before you're kicked? :lol :lol

:lol

 

[timetokill]

You have to not move for 2 entire games before you're kicked? :lol :lol

Holy shit are you serious :lol :lol :lol

 

[shintoki]

Honestly, I don't fucking blame quitters at all. Why the fuck should I get stuck with 1CTF or Team Slayer on Herm 5x times in a row. If they simply let me choose a map or mode I'd like to play, even allow people to join during. Most of the problems would probably settle down.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

This is still early on in the games life, man. You have tons of players that don't stick with Halo that are playing it while it's hot and before other games come out (especially the next COD). Once they move on, you'll have mostly the hardcore Halo crowd who are more inclined to enjoy the gametypes and playstyle and will be less likely to quit, at least moreso than any past Halo game.

What? New people will always be playing this game. There's no "crowd" that's causing this problem, it's the way the system is designed. New faces and places aren't going to fix it. And people are certainly going to quit still, very much moreso than past Halo games.

If you want to compare to Halo 3 and 45's not quitting, you need to play Arena. Arena is Reach's 'serious' rank area where people will be far less inclined to quit.

Two playlists isn't really a good variety as a substitute. Seriously. Telling me to play arena(which ranks reset) so I don't encounter quitters should show you how borked it is.

All these other game types are akin to social hoppers and that's how they should be thought of. If you can't seem to escape quitting and don't want to play Arena, then play with friends.

But why should allllll those other playlists be thought of as social? Isn't that a bad thing? The social matchmaking was fine in Halo 3 because well, you knew you were consciously playing social, and quitters weren't a big deal and expected occasionally. In Reach, you have no choice at all but to play with them.

This really is nothing new if you played Halo 2 and 3.

... Except it's magnitudes worse than Halo 2 or 3.

I feel like you're being overly apologetic for Bungie(I know you're not ). What they have set up now is head-scratchingly strange and the more people try to explain it, the more it seems nonsensical. I like the game like I said and I'm trying for the ONI run right now, but looking at it from an objective viewpoint, it's hard not to point this serious flaw out. It's going to become more apparent day to day also.

edit: Legendary is turning my chest hair into a bush of glory.

 

[Raide]

I am sure they should be able to do what WoW does and detect if people are AFK and if they are, they get no Cr. If they do it too much, just Cr lock them.

 

[timetokill]

I am sure they should be able to do what WoW does and detect if people are AFK and if they are, they get no Cr. If they do it too much, just Cr lock them.

The problem is they are free kills for the other team. It is much better to be in a 3 vs 4 match than a 3+1 vs 4, where the 1 guy is pulling a -10 because the other team is scoring free assassinations on a AFK'er all the time.

 

[zumphry]

Infection, helping me get one Challenge I did not think I'd get today.

Also love how the guy that was camping above the one building got less kills than i did when I only holed up

Spoiler

camped

inside the building.

 

[TheOddOne]

Infection, helping me get one Challenge I did not think I'd get today.

Also love how the guy that was camping above the one building got less kills than i did when I only holed up

Spoiler

camped

inside the building.

You shotgun whore!

 

[Domino Theory]

shotgun

<3

 

[Oozer3993]

You have to not move for 2 entire games before you're kicked? :lol :lol

He pulled the 2 games figure out of thin air. It's definitely less than that.

And I swear I remember, months ago, before the Beta, Bungie mentioning that habitual quitters would be slowly siphoned out of the normal population and would only be matched up with other habitual quitters. Can't remember where though.

 

[Squall ASF]

What? New people will always be playing this game. There's no "crowd" that causing this problem, it's the way the system is designed. New faces and places aren't going to fix it. And people are certainly going to quit still, very much moreso than past Halo games.



Two playlists isn't really a good variety as a substitute. Seriously. Telling me to play arena(which ranks reset) so I don't encounter quitters should show you how borked it is.



But why should allllll those other playlists be thought of as social? Isn't that a bad thing? The social matchmaking was fine in Halo 3 because well, you knew you were consciously playing social, and quitters weren't a big deal. In Reach, you have no choice at all but to play with them.


... Except it's magnitudes worse than Halo 2 or 3.

I feel like you're being apologetic for Bungie and I'm not sure why. What they have set up now is head-scratchingly strange and the more people try to explain it, the more it seems nonsensical. I like the game like I said and I'm trying for the ONI run right now, but looking at it from an objective viewpoint, it's hard not to point this serious flaw out.

Appologist? No one is saying that MP is perfect as is. You were complaining about the quitting and I was providing reasons why I believe it will improve in the future and what you can do in the meantime. Yes, there need to be many changes with the hoppers and Bungie is working on that. There were certainly some head scratchers (why the hell didn't SWAT and Snipers have their own hopper at launch when they warranted it in the past two games?) but many of the current problems required a greater pool of play and feedback. We have a community testing out all aspects of the game every day now so I would expect Bungie will improve the experience more and more as time goes on....just like the last two! (for those that are anal, I'm excluding ODST when I refer to past installments).

They need to greatly enhance Arena for all the competitive players so they will feel more inclined to play Arena over the social hoppers. I agree with you, the game is dominated by social and the downside to that is quitting. I still feel the previous points I made will come to fruition and it will improve but making Arena better is probably the best solution to your primary complaint.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

The problem is they are free kills for the other team. It is much better to be in a 3 vs 4 match than a 3+1 vs 4, where the 1 guy is pulling a -10 because the other team is scoring free assassinations on a AFK'er all the time.

Yea and that douche messes your spawns all game.

 

[timetokill]

He pulled the 2 games figure out of thin air. It's definitely less than that.

Well it seems to be definitely "at least 1" which is still far too long.

 

[chapel]

This is still early on in the games life, man. You have tons of players that don't stick with Halo that are playing it while it's hot and before other games come out (especially the next COD). Once they move on, you'll have mostly the hardcore Halo crowd who are more inclined to enjoy the gametypes and playstyle and will be less likely to quit, at least moreso than any past Halo game. If you want to compare to Halo 3 and 45's not quitting, you need to play Arena. Arena is Reach's 'serious' rank area where people will be far less inclined to quit. All these other game types are akin to social hoppers and that's how they should be thought of. If you can't seem to escape quitting and don't want to play Arena, then play with friends. There are plenty of HaloGaffers that are willing to play and you can send friend requests to the ocassional good player that ends up on your team. This really is nothing new if you played Halo 2 and 3. I know it's not comforting to hear 'keep playing' but it's true, it will get better over time.

How wrong you are. Quitting is just as bad or worse in arena. It is worse because when one person quits, you are most likely to have the rest of the team quit. It is a serious issue and I think it stems from people wanting to keep their precious daily rating high, even though daily rating means jack shit. They should get rid of the daily rating, just show the 3 games played and then something showing how many days you have played. Quitting is probably one of the biggest issues with arena outside of no pro mode and armorlock.

 

[Squall ASF]

How wrong you are. Quitting is just as bad or worse in arena. It is worse because when one person quits, you are most likely to have the rest of the team quit. It is a serious issue and I think it stems from people wanting to keep their precious daily rating high, even though daily rating means jack shit. They should get rid of the daily rating, just show the 3 games played and then something showing how many days you have played. Quitting is probably one of the biggest issues with arena outside of no pro mode and armorlock.

I guess you guys had different experiences in Halo 3 than I had and you're lucky as hell that you did. At no level did I ever cease to experience constant quitting or players that should not have been allowed to play against others in the upper 40's. Halo 3 was constant frustration for me on that front. Reach is far less stressful because I don't get screwed over in experience when my team is garbage or I have an AFK or quitter. Didn't know that Arena had that high a percentage of quitters but not surprised given the last game.