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- Thread starter GhaleonEB
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On the other hand, not being able to join a game in progress is a pain in the ass (especially when you've got friends in the game).Ramirez said:
Something that could be tried to alleviate the "oh no why did I match into this game on a losing team" would be a credit bonus, something like double the usual credits if you finish (double it again if you come from behind and win).
state-of-the-art
Member
Finally, got into a match with some competent people. But maybe because I've listed half the people on Live as avoided players. :lol Not really, but I do submit player reviews for anyone that team kills.
Anyway, I finally completed the daily challenges, and got that damn skunked achievement. Ugh, Zeus' beard, am I glad that's over.
Anyway, I finally completed the daily challenges, and got that damn skunked achievement. Ugh, Zeus' beard, am I glad that's over.
I'm sure something like that would make this guy an even happier booster!Botolf said:
Just to add my opinion in on this: Drop-in/drop-out will never work with Halo. At least when we are talking about 4v4 gametypes (Halo's bread and butter). I could maybe see some sort of "Practice" playlists that could be FFA/Multi Team/BTB of straight slayer matches that perhaps went to 100 kills or more (more being in the case of BTB). BTB could even maybe have some objective gametypes that would work decently (CTF to 5 scores/Neutral Bomb to 5 scores). But when we are considering 4v4, if you have a teammate bail for even 30 seconds, it's going to ruin the game during that waiting period for the new teammate. It would make the leavers issue even worse IMO because some people would care even less about leaving when the game isn't to their liking. Sometimes you lose bad in Halo, but leaving just makes things worse for everyone in that particular game. If the 4v4 games were maybe a bit longer I might see a drop-in/drop-out feature working, but the truth is 4v4 Halo matches, the way they are now, work well for a reason (except most objective gametypes are broken atm, but slayer to 50 kills is pretty much the Halo staple of multiplayer).
As of now, if you want serious and competitive matches (aka no leavers plaguing your team), you are going to have to go in with three other friends. That's the tough truth about Halo matchmaking.
I did a bunch more writing over a the Forge blog.
I think I've got a final version of Crossroads ready for Saturday. I was finally able to get every little kink out of the floor completely, so the seams are perfectly smooth. I saw more than one Mongoose wipe out on them last week.
I think I've got a final version of Crossroads ready for Saturday. I was finally able to get every little kink out of the floor completely, so the seams are perfectly smooth. I saw more than one Mongoose wipe out on them last week.
Hey guys, I started a blog, it's over at hyperlethal.net
The focus of the blog is to rethink the way we play competitively. The reason I am posting this here is because I am a huge Halo fan and I took heavy inspiration from my Halo experiences online. I just want some advice and an opinion on what you guys think of it...
The target audience ranges from newbies to grizzled veterans.
Thanks and Cheers!
The focus of the blog is to rethink the way we play competitively. The reason I am posting this here is because I am a huge Halo fan and I took heavy inspiration from my Halo experiences online. I just want some advice and an opinion on what you guys think of it...
The target audience ranges from newbies to grizzled veterans.
Thanks and Cheers!
Given the choice of doing a favour for boosters or doing a favour for quitters, it has to be boosters in this circumstance, because their credit-grinding has virtually no effect on the playing experience of others. Their purely aesthetic rank and armoury bits have little/no impact on me, whereas half my team quitting will sour the rest of the game. Allowing drop in/drop out and a little incentive for people to sub in might go a long way of compensating for that.Trasher said:
WickedLaharl
Member
cuevas said:
if by "doing something" you mean getting in a vehicle before someone else that wanted it, then yes, i'm doing something to incite the griefing.
but seriously, your line of thinking is pretty damn narrow.
That was more of a joke than anything. That was just to get that guy some more attention to hopefully see him banned haha. So you quoted the one part of my post that wasn't serious. =/Botolf said:
Your idea is flawed from the start because drop-in/drop-out simply won't work with Halo. Like I said earlier: Halo matches are just too short for drop-in/drop-out to be effective. The other big problem is that there are too few players on the team in comparison to CoD. CoD has the benefit of having 12(or more? I forget) players on the team, so if one player drops it isn't that huge of a problem. That's less than 10% of the team's production leaving the game. The remaining 11 people in that game won't even notice them missing most likely. Halo is a different story. One person dropping off your team is 25% of the team, and it's efficiency immediately drops off because the other team can overpower them very easily when it's 3v4. 11v12 is a much more manageable situation. Every second that team is down 3v4 (in an evenly matched game) they will be losing map control and power weapons (which is yet another reason why it works in CoD and not in Halo; in CoD you don't have to worry as much about map control to attain power weapons).
I don't think avoiding works.state-of-the-art said:
Many times I've been matched with players that I have avoided. Recently in Reach I got matched with some people and I thought to myself "Hmm. Those names are familiar". Turns out I had avoided them in Halo 3.
Might be because there are so few Australians though. :lol
I got today's Campaign Challenge by going through ONI Sword Base and half of Tip of the Spear on Heroic. I'm thinking Heroic with a few skulls toggled on is going to be my sweet spot for solo campaign play, as it's challenging without feeling cheap like some sections and levels felt on Legendary.
Tip of the Spear tonight resulted in some of those hilarious, crazy moments that I love in Halo's campaigns.
Also, I noticed that the bug that flung Revenants off of my map is alive and well in Campaign (though that was a Ghost).
Tip of the Spear tonight resulted in some of those hilarious, crazy moments that I love in Halo's campaigns.
Also, I noticed that the bug that flung Revenants off of my map is alive and well in Campaign (though that was a Ghost).
I've only seen it happen to the Revenant in MP, and that Ghost in Campaign.Ajemsuhgao said:
Ajemsuhgao
Member
GhaleonEB said:
Does this only happen with Covenant vehicles..?
NameGenerated
Who paid you to grab Dr. Pavel?
I saw a Wraith go flying out into the ocean on Hemorrhage. It was glorious.
It wouldn't be nearly as effective in 4v4? Sure, I'll grant you that. But you're deliberately ignoring the bigger picture here. Even assuming it makes no impact at all in small games (which I disagree with entirely, many would happily accept a teammate drop-in when the teams are uneven), it can and would make a visible difference in the enjoyability of bigger games. It'd also mitigate the runaway effect quitters can sometimes cause. This is naturally more of a concern with longer and larger games, but the feature would still be welcome for shorter matches. If they become shorter still because of quitters, "briefer suffering" isn't so much a feature as it is a coping mechanism. I don't want to cope, I want some possibility of the disadvantage being offset!Trasher said:
The idea that "drop-in/drop-out" won't work with Halo is ludicrous, and I think I have good justification for saying so: there exists a Halo title with this very feature (and it works just fine)! Sure, Halo PC is not Halo Reach, but the fact remains that the feature is a boon, and the game doesn't become worse for its inclusion. It was especially useful in larger games, but was also welcome in the smaller ones. Rather than a team despairing and being demolished after the teams became unbalanced, there was always the good possibility that new blood would be brought into the mix to revitalize the game.
You argue that games are either too short or the disadvantage is too small to make such a system valuable. Well, I beg to differ. Quitting artificially shortens the small games and will most assuredly destabilize larger ones if and when a runaway quitting effect occurs. It isn't a patch-all, far from it, but it could at least fill in some potholes.
I'll say further that I disagree with your characterization of a "quitter here and a quitter there" being essentially neutral damage. Small disadvantages here and there quickly pool together and have a tangible effect on the outcome (with anything, it's fairly self-evident). It's not just one less gun in the fight, it's also one less player to seize objectives, it's one less player to draw fire, it's one less player to perform a myriad of actions that could result in a victory. The perceived imbalance itself becomes a factor in the team's thinking and performance. They don't even have to be cognizant of the impact of the loss of a player, but it exerts influence over the outcome nonetheless. A drop in/drop out system would alleviate this "ramping disadvantage" by partially offsetting the loss of players and leaving more of the outcome to the skill and teamwork of the players.
You just agreed entirely with me on this point. Might want to re-read my post. I said it wasn't as big of a deal in Call of Duty, not Halo, silly. :lol And that is my point in why drop-in/drop-out wouldn't work in Halo because that leaver has ruined that game from the second he peaces out. Yeah you might get another teammate in a certain amount of time, but if it's not within 5 or 10 seconds your team will suffer because of your aforementioned reasons.Botolf said:
I guess I don't really have much of a beef with leavers because I play with friends. By now I know better than to go into Team Slayer/Objective by myself because I can't stand playing with random bad kids that may possibly leave. And there is NO friggin way I'm even considering going into the Arena by myself. That's not fun to me. The only time you will see me in those 4v4 playlists is if I am with my friends. So is that a problem caused by not having a drop-in/drop-out system? Perhaps for some people, but not for me. Even if there was a drop-in/drop-out system I still would only play when I have a team of four. But that's just my opinion, and that's how I personally enjoy Halo.
So are leavers a problem? Yes. Can I avoid the issue? Yes, by playing with people I know.
Like I mentioned earlier though, it would perhaps be nice to see the drop-in/drop-out system implemented in other playlists like BTB.
Here's a question though: Lets say there is a drop-in/drop-out system, and you are donging on some kids. Lets say that they are in a party of three. So you are beating these kids 15-5 and they decide to drop because they realize they have lost and are outmatched. Their replacements come in and are much better. They end up coming back and beating you. How would you feel to know that you should have had a win, but instead were robbed of a win because of those leavers? I'd be pissed. :lol
Here's another scenario: You join a Team Objective game already in progress. By the time you get in the game you realize it's a 1 Flag game in it's final round that your former teammates had bailed on because they knew the game was not winnable at that point being down 2-0. Who wants to play that?
I just don't see drop-in/drop-out being a complete solution. Games will always be ruined by leavers. The one thing that makes the most sense to me would be allowing a voting system once a player leaves the game for the team that lost the player. They should be able to forfeit if necessary at that point instead of prolonging a game that's already over. It would be nice if a similar voting system was enabled for a team that is in the previous scenario I mentioned above. Don't make people play out games that are already over.
Shake Appeal
Member
18 people on my friends list are now Lt Colonel G3.
Shafto
Member
GhaleonEB said:
This has happened to me twice in Campaign (separate playthroughs, but same level, same place). Always on the Revenant. As I approach the final AA gun on Tip of the Spear, just before the level makes you drop down, beside the ruined roadway with the Hog still on it. Revenant goes flying just on the approach.
Self Induced
Member
Really? Heh, I have 34. It seems like most of my opponents are Lt G3 too, so I see it everywhere. I'd be interested to see what percentage of the population have hit the cap when it gets lifted.Shake Appeal said:
Plywood said:
:lol
speaking of plasma pistols...can I get a render?
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=7987201&player=NYSTOFMIND23
This was a 3v3 Gamebattles match from earlier. I went Halo 2 on the other team and clutched it. This was also the first Reflection match that we've won in Gamebattles. I can't wait until they remove it hahahaha.
GM Bullfrog
Member
Tashi0106 said:
Rendering.
Ajemsuhgao
Member
Blastin' and Relaxin' - 2000cR
Kill 180 enemies in any game mode in Reach.
Covenant-cide - 1000cR
Kill 90 enemies in Firefight Matchmaking.
Five-time Champ - 750cR
Win 5 games in multiplayer Matchmaking.
Oops! All Kills - 400cR
Earn 5 Multikills in multiplayer Matchmaking.
Kill 180 enemies in any game mode in Reach.
Covenant-cide - 1000cR
Kill 90 enemies in Firefight Matchmaking.
Five-time Champ - 750cR
Win 5 games in multiplayer Matchmaking.
Oops! All Kills - 400cR
Earn 5 Multikills in multiplayer Matchmaking.
GM Bullfrog
Member
Tashi0106 said:
I bet. Why did your teammate nade you before you n00b combo'ed those last 2?
jizzlobber
Member
all easy challenges today
GM Bullfrog
Member
Tashi0106 said:
:lol I had a game on Reflection where I had pulled a double and my friend called out another right behind me so I turn around, evade and go for the triple when I land on his grenade. :lol
StickyFingers
Member
It's sad to see people working together in FFA playlist. Be on the look out if you see x Reknown x and xFighnewton, the last one even sporting a MLG gamerpic.
WickedLaharl
Member
Everdred said:
it would be great if reach had join in progress.
there's a damn good reason why lots of games implement this system and playing reach just further drives home why.
jizzlobber
Member
I wasn't awarded points for the five-time champ challenge... I don't think anyway
Jinjo
Member
Kajiba said:My Five time champ didn't go through =/
And just saw the Noble Map Pack trailer. Looks nice.
Rocket Fights in outer space looks insane lol. Also skeleton in the helmet at the end looks so boss. Definitely getting that
That's going to take you 20 mil credits to reach the necessary rank (max rank) and all helmets unlocked.
StickyFingers said:
haha i had like 4 games against them. I finally beat them in KOTH.
http://www.bungie.net/stats/reach/gamestats.aspx?gameid=272489695&player=Psychonaut Raz
Felt good.
I was going to with you, but you just msged me saying you didn't want to?Gui_PT said:
BTW, I played too much halo today, finished the weekly. 80 kills on monday, the rest yesterday and this morning. Mostly played swat though, it is pretty fun when you get the dynamics down. Rarely do I go negative or get less than 10 kills.
squidhands
Member
I hope like hell that gets made into a Firefight map. I must have spent 20 minutes after I killed everything just looking around during my first playthrough.MrBig said:
Leaving your post un-split for sake of readability.
I caught the CoD/Halo distinction, aside from an honest misreading of "11v12". I passed it and read it to mean a game with 12 players in total, which explains the error (as 12 player matches can exist in both games). That error was later compounded with "11v12 is a much more manageable situation", which read like a continuation of the previous sentence. My goof!
If Halo had matches as large as 24 players or larger, I'd still argue that lopsided games are an unwholesome possibility, and that a drop in/drop out system could help a great deal.
You're glossing over the possibility that you'd also experience some epic comebacks in your own favour (so it'd more or less even out). Wouldn't that be exciting?
The mercy system you proposed might be a good fit, as would the inclusion of an autobalance vote in the lobby. Autobalance would probably be the most heavy-handed tool in the bag, but it would be highly effective at keeping the teams even (even accounting for the percentage of players who'll ragequit after being autobalanced to the other team). A "return me to my original team once someone drops in" option in tandem with autobalance would be nice, though I don't know if such a thing has been tried at tall. Anyway, autobalance would make the most sense with a drop in/drop out system, as autobalance only "stops the bleeding".
Trasher said:
a)
I just think the problem is overcome-able, whereas you don't see the drop in/drop out effort being worth it. What I was stressing was the importance in fixing it, hence drop in/drop out's potential utility. That point is related to the coping/feature argument I used in the first post.I caught the CoD/Halo distinction, aside from an honest misreading of "11v12". I passed it and read it to mean a game with 12 players in total, which explains the error (as 12 player matches can exist in both games). That error was later compounded with "11v12 is a much more manageable situation", which read like a continuation of the previous sentence. My goof!
If Halo had matches as large as 24 players or larger, I'd still argue that lopsided games are an unwholesome possibility, and that a drop in/drop out system could help a great deal.
b)
This is the sort of thing I tend to do in multiplayer anyway (even in games such as L4D 1 & 2), but a better system for playing with just about anyone would be ideal. Hence the discussion.c)
I would have been robbed of nothing in this situation. If they can rally back and beat me with replacements, they deserve that additional tick in the win column. Take it as a moral victory and move on.You're glossing over the possibility that you'd also experience some epic comebacks in your own favour (so it'd more or less even out). Wouldn't that be exciting?
d)
I do, if there's a possibility of glory and/or reward (creditsss). There are ways to incentivize subbing in for a team that may go down in flames, just takes some doing. If it's an issue of unwinnable games in the purest sense of the word, that's quite fixable by the institution of a "mathematical elimination" rule. Scavenge from Left 4 Dead 2 is a good example of such a rule in action, the match concludes once a team reaches an unassailable lead.e)
Is drop in/drop out a complete solution? Well, no, it isn't (but certainly better than nothing). I'd love to see it combined with other features, in order to achieve a comprehensive solution to the problem. Quitters and uneven teams need not be a problem we're stuck with forever.The mercy system you proposed might be a good fit, as would the inclusion of an autobalance vote in the lobby. Autobalance would probably be the most heavy-handed tool in the bag, but it would be highly effective at keeping the teams even (even accounting for the percentage of players who'll ragequit after being autobalanced to the other team). A "return me to my original team once someone drops in" option in tandem with autobalance would be nice, though I don't know if such a thing has been tried at tall. Anyway, autobalance would make the most sense with a drop in/drop out system, as autobalance only "stops the bleeding".
Self Induced
Member
Which campaign mission has the most enemies?
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