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Remember R E A C H |OT2|

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X

xxjuicesxx

Member
Oh so yesterday I went to my buddys house who doesn't play much Reach. He's got like the fastest speed package and we had host every game (it was incredibly apparent how you could basically walk around and assassinate them while they tried to melee you), every game we were matched against low leveled players with guests too.

It was FUN.
 
B

bobs...onGaf

Member
GhaleonEB said:
The Legendary guide has a table for each commendation (FF, MP, Campaign).

Onyx pays out 2,000 cR for Get Loud.
Click to expand...

Legendary guide?

Im going to sound stupid if thats like an official guide, but have you got a link? :D

Ah just saw the wikipedia link nice.
 
H

Hydranockz

Member
GhaleonEB said:
I detest the design philosophy that leads to them. Rather than balance the weapon through its behavior, they impact the players ability to see the screen. It's the same design philosophy that leads to expanding reticules while moving (punish player accuracy for moving), smearing the screen with jam when damaged (impact player visibility as punishment for injury), and otherwise doing things to affect the player's ability to see and or/move. I think it's a lazy way to balance a game, and I hate the effect it has on my enjoyment of the game.

Random example: I played the demo for the second FEAR game (whatever it was called) and it was a non-stop barrage of screen-distorting effects. I don't like games that try to balance things out by impacting my ability to see or move properly.

Halo has always been the game that didn't do that (ODST aside), which is one of the reasons I like it.
Click to expand...
I see your point but I wouldn't call it bad design as it was intended to achieve those things as they are impacts some players would expect if they were to really do that. ADS is in a COD game because if I take the time to look down that sight, I can't be looking around me easily. Halo simply uses good ole advanced Spartan technology to take a step back on needing to implement those decisions. It's simple but effective and I can totally see why developers and designers would need to seriously consider what system to implement.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Hydranockz said:
I see your point but I wouldn't call it bad design as it was intended to achieve those things as they are impacts some players would expect if they were to really do that.
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It's a game, so I don't expect perfect realism. That said, it's just a strong personal preference. There's a list of certain things that I just can't stand in games - pet peeves - and I tend to avoid games that do them.

I do think it's lazy, though. It's a lot easier to cover up the screen to reduce visibility and thus player awareness than to balance a weapon through other means.
 
G

Glowingmonx

Member
Trasher said:
Has anyone here even played 4 player split-screen before? I have, and just to let those who haven't know, the graphics are AWFUL in split-screen. You can't even see players that are over 100 feet away unless you zoom. Yes, that is correct. People are invisible at certain distances. Even if you are amazing at Halo you are still gonna be at a disadvantage when playing split-screen. That's why I hate guests being allowed. =/
Click to expand...

I have a couple of times (can't find one in my game history atm). But I try to avoid playing 4 player splitscreen online because of that reason :D . Having 1/2 screen is so much better than 1/4 screen, I actually prefer it over full screen because the aiming feels different (better) to me. Usually end up playing customs when I'm playing 4P ss. I don't remember players being invisible at range in halo 3 though.
 
X

xxjuicesxx

Member
CrazedArabMan said:
I don't really want to start this argument up again, but I saw this vid on youtube and it actually isn't that bad of an idea on what might be a good fix for reticule bloom for the people that would like a fix for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrBHUDR1uJQ&feature=rec-LGOUT-exp_stronger_r2-2r-22-HM
Click to expand...

The best fix I could see is if they patched in the option to turn bloom off. I understand they used bloom on a few weapons to balance its rate of fire and power to fit in with the sandbox of crap weapons that good players never use, but when you are playing a competitive gametype where DMR and Sniper is pretty much the only weapon that is used I don't understand why they can't just let the players skill dictate how fast and accurate they can shoot their weapon... its just mind boggling in my opinion.

I understand capping the rate of fire to something sane, so players can't use automatic buttons to shoot their entire clip at once but beyond that is just pretty lame to me.
 
B

Brolic Gaoler

formerly Alienshogun
electricpirate said:
I think analysis like that leave out the significant interplay of auto-aim with Bloom.
Click to expand...


I think he just wants people who spam to be at a disadvantage. Makes sense since it always feels like BS when you lose to someone spamming the trigger if you are timing your shots, especially at longer ranges.

Your accuracy really should drop to zero if your just mashing the button, but I think adding that would piss a lot of people off again.
 
G

Gr1mLock

Passing metallic gas
CrazedArabMan said:
I don't really want to start this argument up again, but I saw this vid on youtube and it actually isn't that bad of an idea on what might be a good fix for reticule bloom for the people that would like a fix for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrBHUDR1uJQ&feature=rec-LGOUT-exp_stronger_r2-2r-22-HM
Click to expand...

start it up as it is a valid point to make. Its the reason i stopped playing the game. If they patch it to address it id play but as it is i really just find the game not enjoyable.

*edit* i also dont see why so many console fps's INSIST on aim assist and dont let you turn it off. Some of us do not need to be babied and prefer to aim on our own.
 
B

Brolic Gaoler

formerly Alienshogun
GhaleonEB said:
I detest the design philosophy that leads to them. Rather than balance the weapon through its behavior, they impact the players ability to see the screen. It's the same design philosophy that leads to expanding reticules while moving (punish player accuracy for moving), smearing the screen with jam when damaged (impact player visibility as punishment for injury), and otherwise doing things to affect the player's ability to see and or/move. I think it's a lazy way to balance a game, and I hate the effect it has on my enjoyment of the game.

Random example: I played the demo for the second FEAR game (whatever it was called) and it was a non-stop barrage of screen-distorting effects. I don't like games that try to balance things out by impacting my ability to see or move properly.

Halo has always been the game that didn't do that (ODST aside), which is one of the reasons I like it.
Click to expand...


A lot of games that do expanding bloom while running are going for realism, hip firing on the move isn't realistic, I don't see it much in other games that aren't going for that effect.

The smudging is to add a "suppressed" effect, which is also typically used in "realistic" shooters, I think COD just did it because the "red screen" was getting old so they tried something new.

I think ADS was originally introduced for realism in games, like I said personally like it a lot and think it adds to immersion. I don't really see it as lazy, but more of a mechanic that while it allows the player to be more accurate on purpose, it also slows them down, and reduces their situational awareness, which leads to its balance.

I always saw it as a step forward from, "my gun is attached to my hip, and I spray completely accurately."

I'll take it you don't like games like COD, Rainbow six, and Ghost Recon? I'm guessing you're more of an unreal tournament type of guy? It's not a knock, some people just hate "realistic/more realistic/wanna be realistic" games, and prefer the scifi arcade shooters. Thankfully we all have a ton of options!

Gr1mLock said:
start it up as it is a valid point to make. Its the reason i stopped playing the game. If they patch it to address it id play but as it is i really just find the game not enjoyable.

*edit* i also dont see why so many console fps's INSIST on aim assist and dont let you turn it off. Some of us do not need to be babied and prefer to aim on our own.
Click to expand...


In a game like Halo, where it takes at least 5 shots (or more) to kill a person, be glad there is aim assist.

Most people wouldn't kill anyone with anything but melee if this was the case.
 
G

Gr1mLock

Passing metallic gas
i think most people can decide on their own if they want it or not. I personally find it nothing but intrusive and annoying. The option to turn it off should be there.
 
M

MrBig

Member
Gr1mLock said:
i think most people can decide on their own if they want it or not. I personally find it nothing but intrusive and annoying. The option to turn it off should be there.
Click to expand...
The only reason anyone is even complaining about it is because bungie decided to show it in reach. It has been in every halo. The reticule just didn't dynamically represent it.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Alienshogun said:
A lot of games that do expanding bloom while running are going for realism, hip firing on the move isn't realistic, I don't see it much in other games that aren't going for that effect.

The smudging is to add a "suppressed" effect, which is also typically used in "realistic" shooters, I think COD just did it because the "red screen" was getting old so they tried something new.

I think ADS was originally introduced for realism in games, like I said personally like it a lot and think it adds to immersion. I don't really see it as lazy, but more of a mechanic that while it allows the player to be more accurate on purpose, it also slows them down, and reduces their situational awareness, which leads to its balance.

I always saw it as a step forward from, "my gun is attached to my hip, and I spray completely accurately."

I'll take it you don't like games like COD, Rainbow six, and Ghost Recon? I'm guessing you're more of an unreal tournament type of guy? It's not a knock, some people just hate "realistic/more realistic/wanna be realistic" games, and prefer the scifi arcade shooters. Thankfully we all have a ton of options!
Click to expand...

Correct. Played the demos for all, stopped playing after 10 or 15 minutes, never went back. Those games aren't for me.

But like you said, it's nice to have options. :)
 
B

Brolic Gaoler

formerly Alienshogun
MrBig said:
The only reason anyone is even complaining about it is because bungie decided to show it in reach. It has been in every halo. The reticule just didn't dynamically represent it.
Click to expand...

He's talking about aim assist.

GhaleonEB said:
Correct. Played the demos for all, stopped playing after 10 or 15 minutes, never went back. Those games aren't for me.

But like you said, it's nice to have options. :)
Click to expand...


That puts everything in perspective then! :D
 
B

bobs...onGaf

Member
MrBig said:
The only reason anyone is even complaining about it is because bungie decided to show it in reach. It has been in every halo. The reticule just didn't dynamically represent it.
Click to expand...

Thats not true, it existed in a form on Halo 1 but even on that it was hardly ever seen simply because you only ever saw it if you only held down the trigger using the Pistol. Hell if anyone did do it (which they didnt) the bloom was so minimal it would only effect you from long range.

Pretty much no one did that, so for all intents and purposes Bloom is new.
 
X

xxjuicesxx

Member
MrBig said:
The only reason anyone is even complaining about it is because bungie decided to show it in reach. It has been in every halo. The reticule just didn't dynamically represent it.
Click to expand...

Not really though. Nothing to the extent that it is in Reach. Sure you could get tighter bursts with some of the automatic weapons in H3, but beyond that its not so apparent in other Halo's.
 
G

Gr1mLock

Passing metallic gas
MrBig said:
The only reason anyone is even complaining about it is because bungie decided to show it in reach. It has been in every halo. The reticule just didn't dynamically represent it.
Click to expand...

im complaining because so far in every popular console fps its there and its noticeable reticule or not. In cod4 when aiming at someone if a random enemy ran across your screen the weapon would follow them pretty damn flagrantly. If someone doesn't want aim assist i fail to see why its so controversial to be able to go to options and just go 'off'. If your general populace doesn't like it off they can just turn it back on.
 
T

T'Zariah

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
Correct. Played the demos for all, stopped playing after 10 or 15 minutes, never went back. Those games aren't for me.

But like you said, it's nice to have options. :)
Click to expand...
So is Halo the only game you play, then? o_O
 
D

darthbob

Member
GhaleonEB said:
Correct. Played the demos for all, stopped playing after 10 or 15 minutes, never went back. Those games aren't for me.

But like you said, it's nice to have options. :)
Click to expand...

I'd get bored real quick...
 
V

Veelk

Banned
xxjuicesxx said:
The best fix I could see is if they patched in the option to turn bloom off. I understand they used bloom on a few weapons to balance its rate of fire and power to fit in with the sandbox of crap weapons that good players never use, but when you are playing a competitive gametype where DMR and Sniper is pretty much the only weapon that is used I don't understand why they can't just let the players skill dictate how fast and accurate they can shoot their weapon... its just mind boggling in my opinion.

I understand capping the rate of fire to something sane, so players can't use automatic buttons to shoot their entire clip at once but beyond that is just pretty lame to me.
Click to expand...
I'd just like to point out that bloom on the sniper is a nonissue. The bloom appears, but it's just for show. You can't fire the sniper again until it's settled, so it's basically a rate of fire.
 
X

xxjuicesxx

Member
Generic said:
I'd just like to point out that bloom on the sniper is a nonissue. The bloom appears, but it's just for show. You can't fire the sniper again until it's settled, so it's basically a rate of fire.
Click to expand...

Agreed, I was more mentioning the weapons contained in a more competitive play play list, it would probably only include the DMR/NR and Sniper/Rockets...maybe a shotgun/sword. I don't see the importance of balancing all weapons in this scenario. So put the option for bloom removal and the game would work similar to, a game with hitscan weapons and no bloom. AKA Halo 2, my favorite Halo.
 
R

Ramirez

Member
I can't honestly believe that some of you think that the bloom in Reach is the same "bloom" that's been in the past Halo games. Some of you will believe anything...
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
Just finished making the layout of my first map, Temple of Doom. Gonna be the best map ever, and the concept is really original. I bet you anything you haven't seen anything like it in Halo Reach so far.
 
Deputy Moonman

Deputy Moonman

Member
Ramirez said:
I can't honestly believe that some of you think that the bloom in Reach is the same "bloom" that's been in the past Halo games. Some of you will believe anything...
Click to expand...
QFT - The only bloom similarities to past halo games that I can think of involve holding the trigger down with automatic weapons such as the AR. But I think that was more to make sure that skill and accuracy would still give you an advantage over run and spray tactics.

Aside from the fact that I would have appreciated the option to play without bloom in Reach, it seems like Arena would have made more sense being a no-bloom playlist... if it's really supposed to be for the competitive player. I think that should naturally translate into not being penalized for being an accurate, and quick shooter.

Halo has never been about paced shots :(
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Mr. Sam said:
You've really gotta feel sorry for the last guy on Ghostbusters. Fuel rods everywhere.
Click to expand...
It occured to me after that round - and I think I said it out loud in the game - but it would be great if the last man standing got an overshield and speed boost. There would be a lot more moments like that. They usually get pasted pretty quick. :lol

Thagomizer said:
Ghostbusters should be in Matchmaking once they introduce an Action Sack playlist.
Click to expand...
For serious. It's a highlight of every custom night.

Thanks for the latest round of testing on Crossroads. I'm going to ship it to the Forgetacular contest in its current form. Just need an 8v8 Slayer game next week and I'll send that along side the CTF and Neutral Assault films from tonight.
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
Louis Wu said:
That was the perfect length. I was ABOUT to close the friggin' window... then BAM. Beautiful. :lol
Click to expand...

Glad you enjoyed it! :lol

Three of our opponents quit pretty early in that game, and the last guy made a valiant effort (and some epic sticks!) for a while before finally quitting as well. That's why myself and Pumpkin were just chillin' at the top of the elevator; he kept coming up and trading sticks for deaths (he was damn good with those stickies!) so we decided he needed to be taught a lesson. :lol

SolidEyeSystem said:
Can't believe I survived that long :lol :lol

<3 Ghostbusters. It needs to be put into matchmaking somehow.
Click to expand...

Can I get a link to the Ghostbusters gametype?
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
I'm probably LTTP on this. But something I just noticed about the Commendations: they have a cap. The Legendary Guide:

You can earn Credits for completing a total of 60,000 headshots, but only 20,000 in each of the three modes. A player who manages to accumulate 20,000 headshots in Firefight, for example, can no longer receive Credits for headshots in that mode, but may still earn headshot Credits in Campaign and Multiplayer.​

So right now I have 11,176 / 20,000 total for Dome Inspector in Firefight. Before the end of the year, I won't be earning credits for headshots any longer. Since that's the mode I primarily play, my rate of credit accumulation will drop sharply. Kinda bummed about this; one of the reasons I like the Commendation system is it rewards across all game modes. But a few months after release I won't be able to earn any cR for the primary kill method of the game mode I play most.
divisionbyzorro said:
So the +4 cR for headshots is tied to the commendation? I thought it was just a straight bonus for a headshot - that is kinda lame.
Click to expand...
Yeah, all the cR earned for actions in the game are tied to Commendations.
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
GhaleonEB said:
I'm probably LTTP on this. But something I just noticed about the Commendations: they have a cap. The Legendary Guide:

You can earn Credits for completing a total of 60,000 headshots, but only 20,000 in each of the three modes. A player who manages to accumulate 20,000 headshots in Firefight, for example, can no longer receive Credits for headshots in that mode, but may still earn headshot Credits in Campaign and Multiplayer.​

So right now I have 11,176 / 20,000 total for Dome Inspector in Firefight. Before the end of the year, I won't be earning credits for headshots any longer. Since that's the mode I primarily play, my rate of credit accumulation will drop sharply. Kinda bummed about this; one of the reasons I like the Commendation system is it rewards across all game modes. But a few months after release I won't be able to earn any cR for the primary kill method of the game mode I play most.
Click to expand...

So the +4 cR for headshots is tied to the commendation? I thought it was just a straight bonus for a headshot - that is kinda lame.
 
X

xxjuicesxx

Member
Same thing kinda goes for people who grind the target designator in campaign. They will hit onyx for a few commendations ahead of others but afterwards they won't be able to hit those commendation points in campaign. Its nice to have to spread your gameplay out.

Its a now or later kind of thing.
 
L

Louis Wu

Member
xxjuicesxx said:
Same thing kinda goes for people who grind the target designator in campaign. They will hit onyx for a few commendations ahead of others but afterwards they won't be able to hit those commendation points in campaign. Its nice to have to spread your gameplay out.

Its a now or later kind of thing.
Click to expand...
Which is exactly why Bungie isn't getting on anyone's case about that kind of grinding. :D
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Louis Wu said:
Which is exactly why Bungie isn't getting on anyone's case about that kind of grinding. :D
Click to expand...
So long as matchmaking gets a few more beefy updates soon, it won't matter as much. I'm partly playing the hell out of Score Attack because I don't like the multiplayer offerings - specifically BTB maps - right now.

As for the Commendation cap, that just means I'll have to do more Challenges. Which is fine by me.

neoism said:
Great customs guys... also Ghal the new version of your map is waay better.:D
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Thanks. :D

I must have touched half the geometry on the map in the new iteration. Zillions of little things, but I was glad with how it played out.
 
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