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Remember R E A C H |OT2|
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
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Just had something bad happen to me. I played a game of team arena with a few friends, and afterward took a break to go make dinner. I just came back in to the room to see my score totaling up-- somehow it had loaded me into another arena while I was away, and I got like a 800 rating for a game I didn't play. I was working on hitting silver, and I think this knocked me back down a pretty good chunk.
Shake Appeal said:
You can view your arena win %s and K/D ratios on Bungie.net by viewing "By Map" stats on the left sidebar. Then you'll know for sure where you're performing well or poorly. Sometimes the cold, hard "stats" don't match up with what I was feeling in my gut. I always feel like I play like shit on Boardwalk for example, but I have pretty good stats on that map.
GillianSeed79
Member
nvmd
I did think you were at that point, yeah. It seemed like you weren't arguing that the new system was better so much as you were calling people who prefer the old system whiny. I can see your point now that you expanded on it though, but I still think the window is a tad too small.GDJustin said:Do you believe I'm at that point? Your post doesn't seem to take a standI don't think I am.
I am arguing that the new system does MORE to encourage team play. Before I could just run around, making NO effort to get kills, and just try to spray every opponent with a few shots. I would rake in assists, and rake in arena ranking.
This new system forces players to actually make a deliberate effort to take down an opponent. When you do significant damage to an opponent but fail to kill him, and your buddy comes in and gets the kill... bam, assist. If you didn't do significant damage, no assist. To me, it makes complete sense. To me, the "assist" medal is an "almost got a kill" medal.
What I think lies at the heart of this isn't team play dynamics, though. I think people, deep down, are disappointed that they are now getting less shinies than they used to. They used to get 12 assists and now they get 6 and don't like it. The timing for multikills is currently 4 seconds. If Bungie changed it to 3 seconds people would lose their minds. Even thogh *everyone* would then be getting less multikills.
I'm assuming you're already doing this Shake, but if you're having issues on the power weapon heavy maps, make a concentrated effort to time them.
I noticed I have mega rocket whore status in my competitive stats because I do it out of habit on any map where they're present, calling timings out to my teammates even if I personally can't get there in time to grab them.
Sniper I'll never understand though. My stats say I'm decent with it, I maintain I'm the worst fucking sniper on earth in every game. And I hate it. So maybe that's why it feels awful even if I'm well positive.
I noticed I have mega rocket whore status in my competitive stats because I do it out of habit on any map where they're present, calling timings out to my teammates even if I personally can't get there in time to grab them.
Sniper I'll never understand though. My stats say I'm decent with it, I maintain I'm the worst fucking sniper on earth in every game. And I hate it. So maybe that's why it feels awful even if I'm well positive.
Thanks for this, I was trying to get it in btb snipers.Shake Appeal said:
Had to play two games to get swat. I lost both due to shitty team mates, but i got 20 kills in the first game and then 30 in the second for a total of 4000 cR
Doing the campaign challenge right now, which will bring me up to major
GDJustin said:Do you believe I'm at that point? Your post doesn't seem to take a stand
I am arguing that the new system does MORE to encourage team play. Before I could just run around, making NO effort to get kills, and just try to spray every opponent with a few shots. I would rake in assists, and rake in arena ranking.
This new system forces players to actually make a deliberate effort to take down an opponent. When you do significant damage to an opponent but fail to kill him, and your buddy comes in and gets the kill... bam, assist. If you didn't do significant damage, no assist. To me, it makes complete sense. To me, the "assist" medal is an "almost got a kill" medal.
What I think lies at the heart of this isn't team play dynamics, though. I think people, deep down, are disappointed that they are now getting less shinies than they used to. They used to get 12 assists and now they get 6 and don't like it. The timing for multikills is currently 4 seconds. If Bungie changed it to 3 seconds people would lose their minds. Even thogh *everyone* would then be getting less multikills.
You can't watch this and tell me there's nothing wrong here
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Hugbot said:
I believe there might be some weirdness in the timing window. Don't shields recharge in 6.5 seconds and the assist window expires in 5 seconds? That might be something worth Bungie looking into.
I don't agree AT ALL that the new system discourages team play. I think it greatly encourages it, compared to the old system.
If anything, what discourages team play is the INCREDIBLY small win bonus in Arena. But almost no one complains about that. That's why I tend to lean towards my suspicions that people are upset about Bungie taking their shinies away, even though they were taken away for everyone equally.
With a bigger win bonus, people would be more incentivized to put more shots into an opponent, even if they knew they wouldn't get an assist for it. They would do things like poke at someone with a pistol from across the map, when they see them in an AR battle with a teammate - just to give the teammate an edge.
This is the sort of behavior I engage in anyway, because I play Reach pretty much exclusively with a group of friends.
raises handKapura said:
I would actually like to see the criteria for assists lowered (you only have to get 2 shots on someone) and have them mean less in arena. Also I want deaths to carry more weight. I hate it when someone gets a higher score then me even though my k/d is higher.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Agreed completely.vhfive said:
Photolysis
Banned
GDJustin said:
The new system does jack shit to encourage team play. It isn't an argument or a debate, it's a fact.
Why help my teammate? It gives away my position, makes me a bigger target, and won't have any beneficial effect on me. His loss is my gain.
A system that rewards players for playing against the interests of their team, whether it be letting teammates die to get easy kills instead of helping, or zerg rushing and racking up a huge rating despite a terrible K/D ratio due to the death weighting, does nothing to encourage teamwork, and actively discourages it.
What, you think I'm not trying hard enough to help my teammate kill that guy? Please. I just don't get rewarded for that deliberate effort.
If only. You're forgetting the timer. I could hand over a kill gift wrapped on a silver platter and the game will give me fuck all recognition. Apparently the fact I took a guy down to 2 health means nothing because that happened 5.1 seconds ago, even though he still has no shields and hardly any health.
Reducing someone's shields by half IS significant damage. Being 2 shots ahead in a DMR duel for example is a massive advantage.
It's nothing to do with shinies. Making assists equal to kills was a brilliant idea. It encourages teamwork, and there's less of "that bastard stole my kill, what a fucker". It encourages team shooting, and didn't encourage kill stealing. The new system does encourage kill stealing because getting assists is so unreliable and inconsistent. Killing someone is extremely consistent.
It doesn't matter if everyone ends up with 20 assists under a new system that requires less damage done, and ditches the idiotic timer system. The game will still work fine even if everyone has higher ratings because it's the position in the game that matters most. And what it will do is encourage and reward teamwork.
Shake Appeal
Member
Also, the current system makes the assist spree medals truly special. :lol
Photolysis
Banned
vhfive said:
Reducing the weighting of assists is an extremely bad idea. It again reinforces selfish behaviour, which is the very thing you are trying to avoid by making assists easier.
Why would I help someone for half a kill, when I can wait a few seconds, and steal the kill and be rewarded for it?
Deaths do need to carry more weight. Deaths need to be equal to kills. You can't escape the fact that someone who has died more than the kills they helped the team obtain has had a negative impact on their team's chances. You also can't escape the fact that every kill requires a death.
These facts can't be changed with magical thinking, whether Bungie or anyone else likes it or not. As long as the game fails to recognise accurately what is happening, the rating system will always be flawed and inaccurate.
zero margin
Member
vhfive said:
Except that falls apart when someone puts 8 shots on two different people (4 on each), they kill him and you get the last shot on both for the double kill. Seems like he has done more good in his death than you (for instance) who got both kills.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Really? Shouldn't there be other priorities?MrBig said:
I understand not wanting it for when Campaign MM rolls around but... I've only seen harmless and interesting fun with it so far.
Thagomizer
Member
MrBig said:
Of all the things to patch, they pick this?
GDJustin said:
The way that new assists are calculated changes people's playstyles. If I'm the support player on a team, these are the things that I do. I help teammates make pushes towards objectives, power ups, power weapons, positions to gain map control. I also apply shots to everything I see, or hold a key position to deter enemies from advancing on your teams position and setup. In Halo 2 and 3, this player didn't get many kills and would sometimes go negative but his assists would reflect his importance on the team. In Arena in Halo Reach, it forces everyone into the main slayer role if you want a good rating. Get your own kills because you most likely won't get many assists if any at all.
I do agree that the win bonus should be larger and I fundamentally disagree with Arena as a general method to rank a persons skill. Ranking players individually in a team game. Is there an accurate to measure an individual's skill in a team game? No, there isn't. However, I can't fault Bungie for making the Arena. A lot of people seem to like it as well. Great. If it weren't for the shitty radar, I would probably only play Arena. Not because I want to see how high of a daily rating I can get but because I can go in there with a team of 4, match another team of 4 with similar skill and play gametypes that I enjoy.
Vhfive said:
This is what it's supposed to be. In the last Bungie update, there is talk about assist system and how only 40% damage needs to be delivered to get the assist. There must be a glitch or something because that's clearly not the case. I don't think that assists should weigh less than kills though. 1:1 is the way it should be.
Photolysis said:
This is why I believe the win bonus should be much more significant. It would do more to fix this problem than mucking up Bungie's (improved!) assists formula.
I like how you conveniently ignored that part of my post, BTW. AND ignored the part where I explained what was wrong with the old assists system.
Anyone can complain. Much harder is proposing a SOLUTION.
I've laid out, in clear, concise terms, what was wrong with the old assists system, and why I think the new one is better. I've also highlighted the one area that I think the new assists system is not ideal (the shield recharge / assist timing window discrepancy). I've also outlined what I would do to encourage team play in the Arena.
Despite all this, most replies to my posts are just "bu bu bu ASSSISSSSSTTS!"
Finally, if the new formula is taking assists from you that you rightfully deserve, it is taking them from other people, as well. It's taking them from all those dudes in Onyx. So arena rankings are still an accurate relative display of skill.
Edit: I should point out that I don't play arena, btw :lol :lol So really I have no dog in this fight. I'm mainly here because it's a slow day at work.
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
Shake Appeal said:
I've gotten 3 Assist Sprees in Competitive MM so far.
Cuban Legend
Member
OuterWorldVoice said:
ffffffffff
I was on the last part of my winter contingency legendary run with no deaths and live signs me out for the update to the new xbox dash beta
Didn't get the challenge for beating it
e: it also seems that no avatar extras work with it yet. No more noble 6 helmet and sparky flying around :C
I was on the last part of my winter contingency legendary run with no deaths and live signs me out for the update to the new xbox dash beta
Didn't get the challenge for beating it
e: it also seems that no avatar extras work with it yet. No more noble 6 helmet and sparky flying around :C
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
I got Bungie Pro. If I don't use my 5 monthly minutes, will they roll over to the next month? (aka I will have 10 mins next month?)
Diablohead
Member
I don't think so, no stacking.godhandiscen said:
Lets post top medals in competitive again. I wanna see something
1. Headshots (1120)
2. Assists (389)
3. Revenge (218)
4. Double Kill (192)
5. Sniper Headshots (186)
6. Pummel (148)
To everyone who wants to list their tops medal, be sure to include the amount of pummel medals you have. That's what I'm most curious about.
Thanks.
1. Headshots (1120)
2. Assists (389)
3. Revenge (218)
4. Double Kill (192)
5. Sniper Headshots (186)
6. Pummel (148)
To everyone who wants to list their tops medal, be sure to include the amount of pummel medals you have. That's what I'm most curious about.
Thanks.
Thagomizer
Member
http://www.bungie.net/projects/reach/images.aspx?c=60&i=28060
Can someone edit out the text of the 1920 version for me, please?
Can someone edit out the text of the 1920 version for me, please?
Thagomizer
Member
1. Headshot (240)
2. Pummel (177)
3. Assist (104)
4. Revenge (83)
5. Double Kill (70)
6. Sticky (49)
7. EMP (47)
2. Pummel (177)
3. Assist (104)
4. Revenge (83)
5. Double Kill (70)
6. Sticky (49)
7. EMP (47)
godhandiscen said:
If you have some a minute that is about to expire, I would appreciate a render of this:
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=3462505&player=ErrorJustin
Hydranockz
Member
Is the difference between a pummel and a beat dow the amount of times you meleed the player you killed?
I am almost fairly certain if you melee twice, that's a pummel, whereas a beat down would be if the player already had their shields popped and you hit them... Or vice versa.
I am almost fairly certain if you melee twice, that's a pummel, whereas a beat down would be if the player already had their shields popped and you hit them... Or vice versa.
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
HD or SD?GDJustin said:
I think it is being rendered. I never had Bungie Pro before. It costed me my 5 mins though. I will recharge it later.
Shake Appeal
Member
1. Headshots (1,160)Tashi0106 said:
2. Assists (455)
3. Pummel (229)
4. Revenge (202)
5. Snipes (181)
6. Reload This! (142)
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
1) ur face (over 9000)
2) blunts (over 9000)
3) cliffyb's nipple rings (3)
2) blunts (over 9000)
3) cliffyb's nipple rings (3)
dslgunstar
Banned
Blah, I'm having a 'cant hit the broad side of a barn' day. Gonna stay out of the Arena and stick to Team Objective, where at least I can contribute in ways aside from missing easy kills. :lol
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
Yeah, I did HD. I will get 50 mins later.GDJustin said:
edit: it's rendered.
Wow, Bungie's web dev team is pretty cool. That was a very smooth experience.
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