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[cuevas. PhD.]

It's definitely disappointing but we kind of saw it coming. That casual shooter fan jumped ship.

Idk man, the people I play with are way into their games but they couldn't get into reach because of stuff like AL. I love halo but I will always have more fun playing with friends and since they went to BLOPS I have to follow. These are the same people I played halo 3 forever after release.

 

[electricpirate]

I'm just going to throw it out that the relative quality of the games isn't necessarily an issue with the Halo series Sales. I think that more comes down to the messaging clusterfuck/ weird ass value proposition of ODST, and Halo wars showing causing some brand fatigue. combine that with the COD series hitting it's sales apex (just calling that one right now, no clue how they keep growing these sales on a yearly basis after black ops). Also Reach's marketing push, which didn't seem to carry the force of the H3 machine.

I think when you have Niche titles you can draw pretty strait lines from specific changes in the quality of the game to changes in the sales. When we are talking about games that are selling in the millions, that becomes a lot harder to do, as the ratio of people who might not buy a game because it doesn't have the BR, or might buy a game because it reduced noob tubers represents an infinitesimally small wedge of the pie.

I mean, if the Halo series could grow through the major game play problems of Halo 2's first 6 months, but Reach is fairly flat vs it's predecssor despite much more minor issues with gameplay I think it says some strong things about how strong factors external to these super franchises are to their overall sales.

 

[Tashi]

Idk man, the people I play with are way into their games but they couldn't get into reach because of stuff like AL. I love halo but I will always have more fun playing with friends and since they went to BLOPS I have to follow. These are the same people I played halo 3 forever after release.

That may explain them jumping ship after already buying Reach but that doesn't really explain why Reach isn't selling more than Halo 3. If it is selling more, it's not by a lot when it should be. By should, I mean expected.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

electricpirate is closer to the truth (others, like Ghal have said it well too).
Any issues we're moaning about wouldn't have such a big effect on sales, especially considering critical reception.

Welcome back Stinkles, made a good shift in the tone of conversation.

 

[The Lamonster]

I'll tell you why I haven't played Reach in a few weeks -

Spoiler

Armor Lock.

It adds nothing. I'm so sick of douches symbolically yelling WAIT WAIT, TIME OUT!!!! with their armor ability. Yeah, I played some Halo 3 last night instead

 

[Major Williams]

To be fair, Bungie did a lot of things we wanted but it was all small-scale stuff in the grand scheme of things. Of course, no number in the game's title, a different take on Halo gameplay and their worse and smallest batch of launch maps ever have not helped at all.

I actually really enjoy Reach's gameplay. It gets stale quicker than Halo 3 did, but I find myself missing it when I play BLOPS. And for what it's worth, I love AAs and find it to be one of the most useful additions to gameplay.

That being said, I have to agree that the maps (and spawns) are a huge hit to the success of Reach - none are really that great. Hemorrhage really isn't as fun as Valhalla (honestly about 80-90% of the time), and the rest are paltry offerings from Halo 2's amazingly fun maps.

Another thing missing that BLOPS has is customization of your experience. All you can customize is something you hardly see - your Spartan. That' only 1 piece of the pie that they should have tweaked. The ability to add visual flair to a starting weapon would be nice, along with other minor things that other shooters are doing.


Edit: Oh and welcome back Frankles.

 

[CrazedArabMan]

I'll tell you why I haven't played Reach in a few weeks -

Spoiler

Armor Lock.

It adds nothing. I'm so sick of douches symbolically yelling WAIT WAIT, TIME OUT!!!! with their armor ability. Yeah, I played some Halo 3 last night instead

Man, you treated yourself right last night. Unfortunately my copy is at home and not with me at college, I brought Reach instead.

 

[electricpirate]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/6206/the_game_developer_50.php?page=3


Congrats to Jon Cable, his work on Forge landed him in the list for top 50 most influential game industry types in 2010!

Secretly I think it was his barganing to get 3 more shots in the DMR's magazine.

 

[feel]

Damn, the 2 weeks went by fast, forgot to make a proper banner, Sparklee to the rescue!

 

[Tashi]

:lol :lol

Not enough glitter if you ask me

 

[Shake Appeal]

Secretly I think it was his barganing to get 3 more shots in the DMR's magazine.

Cable is a true hero. Now if only he had bargained Armor Lock out of the game, Reach would have sold 4m copies by now.

Or at least that's what I read on the Internet.

 

[electricpirate]

Uhh-mazing.

Welcome back stinkles, yo've been missed.

 

[Bregmann Roche]

It adds nothing. I'm so sick of douches symbolically yelling WAIT WAIT, TIME OUT!!!! with their armor ability. Yeah, I played some Halo 3 last night instead

This doesn't bother me. I don't see that much of a difference between someone armor locking near the end of an encounter and someone sprinting away from me at the end of an encounter. In one case I can wait them out and hope their teammates don't show up and in the other I can chase them down and hope I don't stumble into their teammates while I'm doing so.

Rapidfire Edit: Don't want to sound like I don't know where the frustration comes from. By virtue of the fact that so many other people are frustrated by armor lock it seems that Bungie should have done it differently or not at all.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Also, Tashi, this is a nice youtube but why are you unloading on that guy's corpse at one point? Stay classy.

 

[Tashi]

This doesn't bother me. I don't see that much of a difference between someone armor locking near the end of an encounter and someone sprinting away from me at the end of an encounter. In one case I can wait them out and hope their teammates don't show up and in the other I can chase them down and hope I don't stumble into their teammates while I'm doing so.

Well don't chase anyway unless you're 100% sure you can get the kill while he's still 1 shot. Even then you should be very cautious. Usually he's gonna lead you to his teammates or he's called out that he needs help.

edit:

Also, Tashi, this is a nice youtube but why are you unloading on that guy's corpse at one point? Stay classy.

You mean after I hit him with the plasma shot?

That's teaching him a hard lesson. He's been getting destroyed the entire match and if he wants a chance to come back he's gonna have to play smarter. He had a great opportunity to escape either to his back ramp or top health pack but he decided not to take it. Even with sprint. He decided to jump out and take his chances on a battle that was not necessary but also one that there was a good chance he would lose.

Hopefully he learned something after that game :/

edit: You see me doing stupid shit later in the match too. I guess I was pretty bored lol

 

[Bregmann Roche]

Well don't chase anyway unless you're 100% sure you can get the kill while he's still 1 shot. Even then you should be very cautious. Usually he's gonna lead you to his teammates or he's called out that he needs help.

Exactamundo. So by that logic, isn't using Sprint to pause/timeshift/timeout an encounter just as problematic as using armor lock?

I think the greater problem with armor lock is that it APPEARS to be useful in so many different situations that people assume it is the best. As a result the AA becomes ubiquitous and people get burned out on facing it constantly.

I say this as someone that uses armor lock constantly. If it was removed from the game entirely? I would still play Reach as much as I do now but I would likely gravitate to some other AA and use that constantly simply as a result of developing a familiarity with it.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Who the fuck is Frankie?

 

[GhaleonEB]

I think the greater problem with armor lock is that it APPEARS to be useful in so many different situations that people assume it is the best. As a result the AA becomes ubiquitous and people get burned out on facing it constantly.

It's not that it appears to be, its that it IS. My issue is that it negates so much of Halo's sandbox. Stick someone? They can shed it. Going to ram someone caught out in the open? Oops you explode instead. Caught someone from long range in the open? They can lock up and you take return fire from their team. Strip the shields and go in for the melee? Sorry you bounce off it. Pwnt.

It severely damages the entire scope of the sandbox in a way that a mere increase in horizontal mobility does not. I feel like turning the game off every time I encounter it. Every time I dabble back into MP I'm reminded of why I've been avoiding it.

Expected responses: hyperbole, cry moar, get better, etc. The opinion that Armor Lock damages the game tends to get dismissed as people not liking change or whatever. I embrace and enjoy the large swath of changes that Bungie made to Reach's gameplay. But Armor Lock is, IMO, nearly ruinous to Halo's MP gameplay.

 

[Tashi]

Exactamundo. So by that logic, isn't using Sprint to pause/timeshift/timeout an encounter just as problematic as using armor lock?

I think the greater problem with armor lock is that it APPEARS to be useful in so many different situations that people assume it is the best. As a result the AA becomes ubiquitous and people get burned out on facing it constantly.

I say this as someone that uses armor lock constantly. If it was removed from the game entirely? I would still play Reach as much as I do now but I would likely gravitate to some other AA and use that constantly simply as a result of developing a familiarity with it.

Well I was just offering advice not trying to argue whether or not Armor Lock is cheaper than Sprint. But since you're offering...

As far as slowing down matches and all that stuff, the only problem I have with armor lock in that sense is that it robs people of assists. They're janky and hard enough to get in Reach without the armor lock.

The way I know Armor Lock is unbalanced is because I play Arena with Hologram exclusively and if I used Armor Lock, I know I would have much fewer deaths. If I see a grenade coming, it won't hurt me. If I get stuck, I'll survive. If I'm one shot, I can at least live for a few seconds longer. It's also good for baiting. People seem to just watch people armor locking waiting for them to come out. I do this too. Lol, I'm still trying to figure out what to do.

I just go by how I feel. I feel cheap using armor lock. With Hologram, I feel like I'm at a disadvantage and it makes the games for challenging and fun for me. You wanna bring Hologram up to the level of the other armor abilities? Let me stand on my holograms head. Oh man that would be amazing! I think that would make it over powered though :lol

 

[Shake Appeal]

Hopefully he learned something after that game :/

I don't mind corpse-humping, because it's kinda funny, and I'll do it to anyone that is shit-talking or griefing or generally being a douche.

But shooting/meleeing corpses always feels no needlessly aggressive to me. Your job is not to teach people 'lessons', it's just to win the game. If they want to learn something from losing, they will. Just seems a dick move to fire at somebody's dead body over and over unprovoked.

As far as slowing down matches and all that stuff, the only problem I have with armor lock in that sense is that it robs people of assists. They're janky and hard enough to get in Reach without the armor lock.

On the money. This is the only thing that seriously irritates me about Armor Lock (and the fact that invulnerability isn't properly tied to how the animation/effect. It's more a problem with the ludicrous 5-second assist window than it is with Armor Lock, though.

 

[Miggytronz]

:shrugs:

I have no problem with any of the AA. Its all fun to me.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Well I was just offering advice not trying to argue whether or not Armor Lock is cheaper than Sprint. But since you're offering...

As far as slowing down matches and all that stuff, the only problem I have with armor lock in that sense is that it robs people of assists. They're janky and hard enough to get in Reach without the armor lock.

The way I know Armor Lock is unbalanced is because I play Arena with Hologram exclusively and if I used Armor Lock, I know I would have much fewer deaths. If I see a grenade coming, it won't hurt me. If I get stuck, I'll survive. If I'm one shot, I can at least live for a few seconds longer. It's also good for baiting. People seem to just watch people armor locking waiting for them to come out. I do this too. Lol, I'm still trying to figure out what to do.

I just go by how I feel. I feel cheap using armor lock. With Hologram, I feel like I'm at a disadvantage and it makes the games for challenging and fun for me. You wanna bring Hologram up to the level of the other armor abilities? Let me stand on my holograms head. Oh man that would be amazing! I think that would make it over powered though :lol

Hologram should be like those extra pods you get in Gradius. :lol

 

[Striker]

Heh. I used the phrase "sales have flatlined" to mean they were at parity with Halo 3, and got a lot of push back in the NPD thread, so I assumed you meant me. :lol

Though FWIW, those sales don't include the bundled 360 SKU, so sales overall may well be equal. And that's still a whole lotta pancakes. But in the backdrop of double the user base and a rapidly growing CoD market, I think it's disappointing.

Comparing Halo 3's sales in '07 to Reach's sales in '10 is a little skewed, but I think you knew that already. Halo 3 had nothing really going up against it and had little to no competition until Call of Duty 4 released that year in November. And 3 had more hype coming from it bouncing off Halo 2's boom for Xbox Live, meanwhile lots of people felt burned by ODST, Halo 3, etc. It's a pointless argument, either way. You either play it, or don't.

Either way, I couldn't careless. I'm going to keep playing no matter what sales or what casuals/friends feel like jumping over. This gives me more gaming pleasure from the series since 2.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Ghaleon abandons Halo and punches Dax in the face, news at 11.

 

[Tashi]

I don't mind corpse-humping, because it's kinda funny, and I'll do it to anyone that is shit-talking or griefing or generally being a douche.

But shooting/meleeing corpses always feels no needlessly aggressive to me. Your job is not to teach people 'lessons', it's just to win the game. If they want to learn something from losing, they will. Just seems a dick move to fire at somebody's dead body over and over unprovoked.

Corpse humping and shooting a dead body are the same to me. Only corpse humping looks funnier. I do it to humiliate my opponent. Get into their heads not only to help me win the rest of the match but also to maybe get them to think about why they just got shit on. I usually only do it when I embarrass a guy or when they do something just really really dumb. And who's to say what my job is when I play games? Maybe I wanna help the greater Halo community improve their skills. I'm not trying to be a bully and I rarely shoot and hump a head body unprovoked. Him attempting to kill me in that situation provoked me to shoot his body.

edit:

Hologram should be like those extra pods you get in Gradius.

Options? I love Gradius <3

 

[Hey You]

Hes back. Yaaaay.

As for those achievments - nice! It was a smart move to add achievments that you dont need the map pack to earn, will definatly drag some people into matchmaking to try them out.

Wait what? You don't have to DL the map pack for these achievements? I can get them today?

 

[Miggytronz]

Wait what? You don't have to DL the map pack for these achievements? I can get them today?

i dont believe so. It says they are LOCKED. Im assuming til Map pack day

 

[Plywood]

I think we can all agree that Armor Lock and Bloom are entirely to blame for
Reach's sales (compared to Halo 3 and BlOps).

If I had to choose between removing Armor Lock or Bloom I would remove bloom.

edit: Welcome back drunk, naked and uncooperative guy.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Maybe I wanna help the greater Halo community improve their skills. I'm not trying to be a bully and I rarely shoot and hump a head body unprovoked. Him attempting to kill me in that situation provoked me to shoot his body.

I wouldn't call it 'bullying', but I'd imagine all you're 'helping' is to piss people off and make them less inclined to play the game.

 

[The Librarian]

I wouldn't call it 'bullying', but I'd imagine all you're 'helping' is to piss people off and make them less inclined to play the game.

And plus, you're not really teaching anyone anything. Shooting him isn't going to make him learn anything, if that's your goal.

 

[Stinkles]

Who the fuck is Frankie?

BAN THIS FILTH

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

BAN THIS FILTH

:lol

Options? I love Gradius <3

Yup.

Then you could make up for quitters!

I'm on a roll. :lol

 

[kylej]

Did Juices get hired yet?

No, they hired me instead.

 

[Tashi]

And plus, you're not really teaching anyone anything. Shooting him isn't going to make him learn anything, if that's your goal.

It would teach me something. If I were that guy who got destroyed like that, I would say to myself, "that guys a real asshole, BUT, I shouldn't have jumped out like that"

Tough love baby!

Also, if you keep watching passed that point, I'm crouching around with the plasma pistol out. Basically trolling and showing them that I'm much better, I get a pretty easy double kill and dance around outside with my head down while they kill me. Ok, now you can give me shit for that. That was a dick head move :lol

 

[pakkit]

Exactamundo. So by that logic, isn't using Sprint to pause/timeshift/timeout an encounter just as problematic as using armor lock?

Nope. Sprint requires you to know the layout of the map and get away to a safe area that is not out in the open or tremendously obvious. You have to use skill to get away.

Armor Lock leaves you sitting there, point blank, praying for teammates help. It's a button press away and it doesn't require any knowledge of the map, loadouts, weapon pickups, where the health pickups are. It's just "oh shit, I'm losing."

 

[aesop]

Nope. Sprint requires you to know the layout of the map and get away to a safe area that is not out in the open or tremendously obvious. You have to use skill to get away.

Armor Lock leaves you sitting there, point blank, praying for teammates help. It's a button press away and it doesn't require any knowledge of the map, loadouts, weapon pickups, where the health pickups are. It's just "oh shit, I'm losing."

wat

That's... well, that's just silly.

 

[squidhands]

i dont believe so. It says they are LOCKED. Im assuming til Map pack day

Probably explains why bnet went janky yesterday for a bit and re-instated the rank cap for everyone; they were inserting the new achievements.

BTW - love your avatar.

 

[Miggytronz]

Probably explains why bnet went janky yesterday for a bit and re-instated the rank cap for everyone; they were inserting the new achievements.

BTW - love your avatar.

gracias.


http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/GameStats.aspx?gameid=323212198&player=Miguelangelos

LOL matches like this crack me up.:lol :lol

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

That may explain them jumping ship after already buying Reach but that doesn't really explain why Reach isn't selling more than Halo 3. If it is selling more, it's not by a lot when it should be. By should, I mean expected.

I think it was just less hyped up than 3 because there was already 3 halo games before it on the 360, almost a yearly iteration even if ODST and Halo Wars weren't core halo experiences. In combination with the things that are driving people are from Reach leads to less positive word of mouth and less sales. People sometimes wait to see if they want to get a game and if their friends say they are not going to stay with a game they won't get it.

 

[Bregmann Roche]

Ok, now you can give me shit for that. That was a dick head move :lol

I was watching some of your corpse punching antics. My thoughts on any extracurricular activities differ depending on context.

In Arena being a jackass can actually be a viable strategy. Throwing someone off their game is a time-honored tradition. The entire point of Arena games is to measure your skill against that of other players and if people let someone firing bullets into their imaginary corpse get to them then they are not as good as the player that takes it in stride and just tries to do better.

Outside of Arena: you're probably hurting the community because for some people that lack of sportsmanship ruins the experience for them.

Full Disclosure: I have humped many corpses outside of the Arena.

P.S. "I have humped many corpses outside of the Arena" is a free yearbook quote to all you High School Seniors out there. Consider it a gift.

 

[ShinAmano]

What is Bloom?

 

[electricpirate]

Woo, just got my first Exterm in any Halo game

Nothing incredibly skillfull, 1 bomb on zealot, we plant, I get a double as half of their team rounds a corner, and put enough fire into the other two so I can get credit for the other two kills when the bomb went off. Would have been great if my nade had finished the job, but it still felt good mang.

 

[pakkit]

wat

That's... well, that's just silly.

I guess it depends on the gametype. I play a lot of Doubles Arena/Team Arena. But suffice to say, sprinting willy-nilly doesn't reward the player in the same way AL does.

 

[Hydranockz]

Poor cocop has the blood of the Halowars.com on his hands.

http://www.halowars.com/forums/1/953396/ShowThread.aspx

 

[FourDoor]

I haven't had a chance to play Reach for a couple of weeks now due to my schedule.

What's the online population like now that the COD folks have jumped ship? Are the quality of games better or worse? When I was playing, 1 out of every 3 games had somebody complaining and how they couldn't wait for Black Ops.

 

[electricpirate]

What is Bloom?

The visual representation of the loss of your weapons accuracy under sustained high rate of fire.

 

[Miggytronz]

Poor cocop has the blood of the Halowars.com on his hands.

http://www.halowars.com/forums/1/953396/ShowThread.aspx

HOLY SHIT :lol :lol They MAD

 

[Miggytronz]

I haven't had a chance to play Reach for a couple of weeks now due to my schedule.

What's the online population like now that the COD folks have jumped ship? Are the quality of games better or worse? When I was playing, 1 out of every 3 games had somebody complaining and how they couldn't wait for Black Ops.

imo alot better.

 

[Roche]

So after a long fight I've worked my way through the arena and attained my prize:

I wasn't expecting anything over Gold to be completely honest but I'm happy and surprised, I just hope I don't get knocked back down when I'm not looking that would suck quite a bit

 

[Hydranockz]

Community? I am digging it for sure